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Marty Rathbun: thoughts on Scientology and spirituality

CommunicatorIC

@IndieScieNews on Twitter
Re: Marty: "That formula requires the individual to change the very essence of his be

I find the following exchange of interest. YMMV.

http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2013/03/21/the-enemy/#comment-259669
noteacherleftstanding | March 21, 2013 at 8:05 pm | Reply

Hey Marty,

This is most certainly an important reminder. After all, much of my OSA DSA full hat was a recipe for creating enemies out of illusion.

Recently, I’m admiring some interesting shadows and figuring out how to love and bless them as well. Wildly powerful healing process for me.

So this post is not a surprise, but a helpful reinforcement.

As always,
Vic

BTW: OSA DSA full hat was the actual training materials package with drills that qualified me to work in a Class 5 org as the OSA rep.
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martyrathbun09 | March 21, 2013 at 8:31 pm | Reply

Yes, that was some serious stuff. I just finished a review of all the OSA NWs (mostly formerly Guardian’s Office orders) and the creation of the illusion was remarkably intense. It is a wonder we have arrived where we have after having pledged, and acted in, allegiance to all that for so long. Hat tip to you, brother.
 

CommunicatorIC

@IndieScieNews on Twitter
Marty: lower conditions "were done to create compliant, trustworthy group members"

http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2013/03/21/the-enemy/#comment-259681
martyrathbun09 | March 21, 2013 at 8:58 pm | Reply

Thanks Tony. When I look at the context, the history, of how the lower conditions came to be, my view is that they were done to create compliant, trustworthy group members. As such, from the get go those lower conditions were ‘assigned’ to people. When you go there, you go out of the realm of ethics, by its very Scientology definition – that technology an individual applies to himself to pull himself up the chute. But, the concept of enemy is communicated over and over in Scientology, beyond just the conditions.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Re: Marty: "That formula requires the individual to change the very essence of his be

...

Marty is "movin' on up" towards becoming an ex.

At this rate of case change, the next great New Year's Defection Letter (i.e. Debbie Cook) is going to be Marty blowing from his own Indie blog! :giggle:

What if that was COB's master plan to get Marty to go away?


COB
I want you to find the ten most KSW Scientologists and do really
crazy things to them so they blow. Then they will become Indies
and drive Rathbun totally insane with that retarded KSW shit!
 

CommunicatorIC

@IndieScieNews on Twitter
Re: Marty: "That formula requires the individual to change the very essence of his be

Marty is "movin' on up" towards becoming an ex.
I'm pretty confident that won't happen. My take is that Marty believes, and will continue to believe, that there is a non-abusive core to Scientology (or a core that can be made non-abusive) that is or can beneficial. YMMV

In any event, I think the most important thing is that this is yet another post where, to the consternation of many Indies, Marty does not blame everything on DM but instead traces problems in Scientology to the Tech itself. See, for more example, my cross-post of what Marty said about the assignment of lower conditions. Again, YMMV.

.
 

Veda

Sponsor
Re: Marty: "That formula requires the individual to change the very essence of his be

I'm pretty confident that won't happen. My take is that Marty believes, and will continue to believe, that there is a non-abusive core to Scientology

Marty knows otherwise. He's aware of Hubbard's many documents which became the subject of Armstrong vs Scientology in 1984. He knows about Hubbard's secret "real goal" as expressed in his 1938 'Excalibur' letter; he's read the 1946 'Affirmations', and knows of Hubbard's intent to exercise hypnotic power over others through his system of psychology; he's read Hubbard's crazed and manipulative letters to the FBI from the 1950s, and other bizarre letters from Hubbard to various people. He knows what he score is, and has known for many years.

Unlike most Scientologists, Marty was privy to these documents, and so was his pal, Mike Rinder, and for decades.

Marty&Mike both know, and have known for a long time, that Scientology is rotten at the core. In fact, a few day ago, Marty even permitted a comment by Denise Brennan, which stated just that, to be posted on his blog.

(or a core that can be made non-abusive) that is or can beneficial. YMMV

To use the 'Onion' idea - that would mean taking the outer, publicized, layer of mostly - in and of itself - benign Scientology, and making it the new core.

That could be done, but would make it a new subject.

It would no longer be Scientology, and to assert that it is still Scientology would be lying.

Keep in mind that Scientology's supposed objective - the publicized objective - is increased awareness, yet to forward a lie would require reducing people's awareness.

That sounds a lot like the original Scientology: selectively increase awareness in one area, while stunting or reducing awareness in other areas.

Since Marty has gone this far - while occasionally backsliding, perhaps out of habit - he needs to go all the way.

Recognize and admit publicly that Scientology, per its founder's design, is rotten at the core. Then establish a new subject with a new core.

It will have some bits and pieces of Scientology, and of other subjects, and it won't be Scientology anymore.

This transformation will necessitate other changes also. Marty needs to cool it with asserting nonsense - which he knows to be nonsense - such as the "You're literalizing L. Ron Hubbard" (to "cover" for H's many acts of prevarication, including prevarication about the "tech" and the "Bridge"), and he's going to have to cool it on telling "homo sapiens" that "Incident 2" of OT 3 is an "analogy," or a "metaphor" (to deflect the ridicule engendered by the Xenu drama), and he's going to have to discontinue asserting that Hubbard "didn't know," about the key G.O covert operations and dirty tricks.

The transformation will also necessitate an end to such "explanations" as Rinder's (to paraphrase): "Oh, that massive document shredding of the late 1970s was unnecessary and done by off-Source people and irrational people who erroneously thought that L. Ron Hubbard was guilty of something and needed to be protected. Oh gee, it's really a shame that happened. If it hadn't happened, then LRH could have been completely exonerated but, now, alas, the evidence has been needlessly destroyed, so some suspicious few, who love to think badly about LRH, will assume that LRH knew, when he didn't know."

These will be some old habits that Marty and Mike will have to discontinue if they are to be taken seriously.

In any event, I think the most important thing is that this is yet another post where, to the consternation of many Indies, Marty does not blame everything on DM but instead traces problems in Scientology to the Tech itself. See, for more example, my cross-post of what Marty said about the assignment of lower conditions. Again, YMMV.

.

As I've said before, I'm hopeful about what I've been seeing and believe Marty needs some more time.
 

TG1

Angelic Poster
Re: Marty: "That formula requires the individual to change the very essence of his be

I believe Marty will eventually blow all his Scientology circuits and discard the whole thing.

He's got a huge philosophical streak. I dunno what he'll do with it, but I don't see him becoming a realtor.

I predict he'll eventually be viewed as a big critic.

And that he'll still piss off some other critics.

TG1
 

guanoloco

As-Wased
Re: Marty: "That formula requires the individual to change the very essence of his be

Organized Scientology is about three things.

1) attacking Ron's enemies all Fabian-like

2) getting money for Ron

3) getting fame for Ron

Anything else is incidental. And I bet you thought it was about you going up the Briidge.
 

CommunicatorIC

@IndieScieNews on Twitter
Marty attributes a problem in Scientology not to DM, but instead to the Tech itself.

Marty attributes a problem in Scientology not to DM, but instead to the Tech itself.

In case was Marty was insufficiently clear in his OP:

http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2013/03/21/the-enemy/#comment-259764
martyrathbun09 | March 22, 2013 at 6:33 am | Reply

I’m not complaining about anything. I am observing that the concept of ‘enemy’ is embedded in Scientology think. I used the enemy condition as one example of many.
 

CommunicatorIC

@IndieScieNews on Twitter
Mary, you "actively oppose the establishment of a large... org[] to train auditors"

Marty, you "actively oppose the establishment of a large... org[] to train auditors"

http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2013/03/21/the-enemy/#comment-259861
diogenes | March 22, 2013 at 1:52 pm | Reply

What you did to draw off OSA’s resources from the rest of us was valuable and heroic. But that’s not all you did. You also used your Opinion Leader status among us to actively oppose the establishment of a large, alternative organization to train auditors in volume.

You promoted the idea that we couldn’t trust ourselves to run such an organization without it going down the same path to darkness that the Church did. But we could have easily applied the Danger Formula and Third Dynamic Engram handling to update LRH policy and real-world operations to prevent a re-occurence of the suppression that happened in the Church. The key points needing change have been glaringly obvious all along, and have been commented on by many readers of this blog.


The legal front vs the Church could have been handled, too.

You were in a position to lead a discussion of all this, but you never did. In fact, you vehemently opposed it. If you’d supported the idea of an alternative organization implementing the right policy updates and legal strategies, enough people and money would have gathered around that purpose for such an organization to exist today, or at least be well along in its planning stages.

Now Steve Hall and Mike Rinder have established blogs that are attracting Indies unhappy with the evolution of yours, and you’re off on a tangent about someone (rightly or wrongly) assigning you Treason. The LRH reference that applies is “Responsibility of Leaders.”

**********




  • c2d94d163a566268e73c8b0195b6c03a
    martyrathbun09 | March 22, 2013 at 2:10 pm |Reply
    Thanks for demonstrating the precise mentality that I noted in the last comment. As to The Reponsibities of Leaders, if you want to continue to cling to that recipe for suicide, you won’t want to read my next book.

    **********
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    martyrathbun09 | March 22, 2013 at 2:19 pm | Reply
  • By the way, where were you when the bullets were flying? Actually, they still are, I am just not giving the shooters the satisfaction of publicizing on my blog. You haven’t even made yourself known. You’re telling me how to lead? Please.

    **********
    • ee2becb83303611cd438a9b7cdb89a52
      SKM | March 22, 2013 at 2:35 pm | Reply

    • But there is nothing bad in defining a Ideal Scene, or a better scene first and going along a set out path.
      It could turn out to be a very productive activity.

      **********
      • c2d94d163a566268e73c8b0195b6c03a
        martyrathbun09 | March 22, 2013 at 2:53 pm |

        I did so 3 1/2 years go and encouraged, and fought to make it possible since, http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2009/09/21/the-joe-howard-paradigm-tech-outside-the-wall/.

        Again, those railing the most at me being in their road have done nothing, and I mean nada, about getting on with it. No delivery, plenty of assignation of blame, assignment of conditions, and disconnection. In any event, back to the issue at hand, any views on the instilled need to find enemies?

        **********
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        SKM | March 22, 2013 at 3:36 pm |

        OK Marty, as I said before, I am not in the business of mocking-up enemies where there are none.

        LRH said in the PDCs, don’t be AGAINST something, be FOR something.

        One will only get what one puts his attention on.

        Thank you for linking the references from you and Dan Koon.

        “To allow anyone to attempt to consolidate and monopolize the tech could lead to another Dark Ages like we are attempting to break through today.”


        I am with you when you say there should be no monopoly what so ever on the materials or application. And there will never again be something like this.

        But what is wrong of having consolidated the training line-up for good.

        Indeed Dan Koon is working his ass off in order to compile correct checksheets and materials. And this is consolidation work.

        Or I just don’t understand what you mean by saying “an attempt to consolidate the tech”.


        **********
      • c2d94d163a566268e73c8b0195b6c03a
        martyrathbun09 March 22, 2013 at 3:42 pm |

      • Monopolize was the idea – used the wrong word I guess. It is right in the PDC lecture on the only way that Black Dianetics will reign – by allowing it to be monopolized.

        **********
      • ee2becb83303611cd438a9b7cdb89a52
        SKM | March 22, 2013 at 4:03 pm |

        “Monopolize was the idea – used the wrong word I guess.”


        Thanks Marty.

        Yeah. The monopoly of Scientology backfired and would do so again and again.

        It is my belief that every motion to unmonopolize it is a worthwhile activity.

        But consolidation at the other hand is pro-survival, too.

        I think the “Internet Org” is still work I/P and this is very good.

        Some things need time in order to evolve.


        **********
      • 66f69964f435826cfad5855d65b49c24
        diogenes | March 22, 2013 at 5:07 pm |

        Marty, without going into detail, I will say that I HAVE done something about “getting on with it.” I was not successful, due to my underestimating in a number of ways how difficult it would be. I lost thousands of dollars in the effort. But I did step up and try.

        **********
      • c2d94d163a566268e73c8b0195b6c03a
        martyrathbun09 | March 22, 2013 at 5:13 pm |

        I’m sorry to hear that. Did you communicate with me about it during your effort?
 

guanoloco

As-Wased
Re: Marty: "That formula requires the individual to change the very essence of his be

Organized Scientology is about three things.

1) attacking Ron's enemies all Fabian-like

2) getting money for Ron

3) getting fame for Ron

Anything else is incidental. And I bet you thought it was about you going up the Briidge.

This activity, the Dev-T that is Scientology, is the waste of resources that gets in the way of planetary Clearing.
 
Re: Mary, you "actively oppose the establishment of a large... org[] to train auditor

Marty, you "actively oppose the establishment of a large... org[] to train auditors"

http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2013/03/21/the-enemy/#comment-259861

Same ol' same ol'. :eyeroll:

From my observation the greatest impediment to practicing "standard tech" scientology outside of the confines of the church has been the insistence of far too many on maintaining exactly the same pattern of "make wrong/serfacs" which they adopted during the years spent within the church. Some realize the insanity inherent in all such "standard" approaches to scientology. Unfortunately many among those who consider themselves to be the "most standard" remain utterly blind to the insanity they continue to propagate.

MR & his new found playmates aren't making any points here. :melodramatic:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLszaMafBQ4


Mark A. Baker
 

CommunicatorIC

@IndieScieNews on Twitter
Marty: "Hubbard policies that excused otherwise destructive behavior of beings"

Marty again blames problems in Scientology not on DM, but instead on L. Ron Hubbard and the Tech.

The comment thread on Marty's blog is interesting in that people are openly discussing the value, if any, of the upper bridge versus the lower bridge, as well as the responsibility of LRH.

http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2013/03/27/is-spirit-of-quality-or-quantity/
Is Spirit of Quality or Quantity?

Posted on March 27, 2013 by martyrathbun09 | 42 Comments

For the first several years of L. Ron Hubbard’s research into a path to enlightenment, his focus was on simplicity. In that wise, his quest aligned perfectly with the ancient universal truths he sought to make more easily and uniformly attainable. Those truths, per Hubbard, were particularly well articulated by Siddhartha Gautama (the Buddha), and Lao Tzu in the Tao Te Ching. Hubbard seemed to understand, and could communicate in modern language, the Buddhist and Taoist descriptions of the spiritual, the difficult to conceptualize ideas of ‘emptiness’ or ‘nothingness.’ Hubbard lectured as follows on 1 December 1954:

You can have a quality in complete absence of a quantity. You don’t have to be “a quart of good boy.” And this was what he (the scientist) was assuming, see. The next time you see a pound of lust, send it around and we’ll put it in a museum. These things are not quantitative.


So we had to get out of quantitative thinking, thinking in terms of objects and masses, before we had any real comprehension of existence. And this was very easy to do. Very easy to do. You merely had to define what zero was . And we find that life, basically the awareness of awareness unit in life, is not a thing of quantity – not even vaguely of quantity. It is a thing of quality, of ability.

Where you have ability, you have life. Where you have space, energy, mass…I don’t care what kinds of energy. The energy contained in your engrams. The energy contained in mental pictures. The space contained in your visios or lack of them. Anytime you have any quantity of any kind, you have walked downhill from life. Just like that. And this works out. This works out in processing, works out gorgeously.


Scientology counseling (processing or auditing) does work out quite gorgeously when a thetan (the awareness of awareness unit, or individual spiritual being) is considered in this wise. When this framework is kept in mind, Scientology procedures are rather simple. That is because all of them are used toward the result of removing additives, or complexities, and returning the quality of the awareness of awareness unit to itself. That quality is uniformly found to be good by universally recognized human standards.

Hubbard clearly mapped philosophy and procedures that brought about abilities (qualities) in a being that culminate in the state of Clear. Hubbard defined a Clear as “an unrepressed and self-determined being” who is no longer subject to stimulus-response reactive thought processes.

Unfortunately, the issue becomes muddled as one assays to move higher on the Scientology path, called the Bridge. Above Clear, the reached for states are no longer expressed in terms of freedoms from the additives that hamper a being. Instead, Scientologists shoot for the vaunted state of ‘cause.’ Cause over matter, energy, space, time, and life is the state that is promised. Powers become the target. Rather than the removal of additives the goal becomes the inclusion of an additive, expressed in a term that infers physical properties or force, power.

In formal, organizational Scientology the relentless promotion and cultural propaganda and pressure hammer that theme home. They seize upon some later seemingly contradictory words of Ron mentioned in policy letters and bulletins because of later turns Hubbard himself took. By the mid sixties he began to contradict the maxim regarding quality versus quantity. Beings were increasingly considered to vary in size, or to be recognizable by something other than quality, the new measure being quantity.

For example, in a policy letter issued on 22 March 1967 Hubbard introduced the idea of size with respect to thetans. He wrote, ‘Some thetans are bigger than others. None are truly equal. ‘ He went on to instruct that smaller beings, whom he designated as degraded beings, occur ‘about eighteen to one over Big Beings in the human race (minimum ratio). ‘


Along with that shift of focus onto size came the introduction of different goals for processing. Rather than the original goal of returning a being to the simple, uniformly good, freedom from the additives tainting the being’s quality, the focus went toward achieving powers. Conditions of existence were issued along with formulas one could apply in life to improve one’s condition. Those conditions were determined primarily by the quantity produced as measured by statistics. The most senior of those conditions to which all of them were designed to lead toward was called ‘Power.’ While those condition formulas were, and are, very workable, the schema contributed to a culture of lust toward attainment of power.

The very definition of power in Scientology radically changed as follows:

a) The ability to maintain a position in space. – 1 March 1958

b)
The amount of work which can be accomplished in a unit of time, or the amount of force which can be applied in a unit of time. – 6 December 1966

Over time the adjective “powerful’ became regularly associated with ‘thetan’ in Scientology think and speak. Scientologists began to promote and covet the idea of becoming a big, powerful thetan. Scientology promotion became more geared toward such ideas as ‘unleashing the power of the thetan’, and bestowing ‘super power’. Achievements in the Scientology world were ascribed as attributes of ‘powerful thetans’ and ‘big beings.’ Conversely, bad conduct was routinely condemned as that of smaller beings.

Exacerbating matters were more Hubbard policies that excused otherwise destructive behavior of beings based upon the size or power of the individual, particularly when that alleged size or power was abused in the forwarding of the power of Scientology as a movement. Thus, in the policy The Responsibilities of Leaders, Hubbard’s ‘seven points of power’ suggested the ends justify the means when protecting the ‘power’ one relies upon for his own power. Hubbard suggests the physical beating of the critic of the power one relies upon and serves is commendable behavior. He even suggests that a real power would accept those who rely upon his power murdering enemies of the power. And that a true power would encourage his underlings to keep him ignorant of the crimes they commit in increasing his power. In fact another Hubbard ethics policy letter stated that an individual who produced a lot toward expansion of Scientology could ‘get away with murder.’

In the years that Scientology evolved in this fashion, most particularly after the death of Hubbard, its very aims were demonstrably altered in significant ways. Gradually, alleviating the world of ‘insanity’, ‘war’, and ‘criminality’ was replaced by a drive to wreak ‘planetary obliteration’ or exact ‘global vengeance’ against the Scientology-designated evil-doers of earth.

It fairly makes one wonder whether somewhere along the line Scientology lost sight of its own purpose and the quality of life it was created to restore.

Does Scientology address beings as ‘qualities’ that lost sight of their own very nature by introduction of the confusion of ‘quantity’ into the equation?
Or does Scientology address beings as ‘quantities’ that need to have some quantity added to them to become sufficiently big and powerful?
If there were any doubt regarding whether Marty sees DM as the source of all problems, or LRH and the Tech:

http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2013/03/27/is-spirit-of-quality-or-quantity/#comment-260601
SKM| March 27, 2013 at 3:08 pm | Reply

Marty, you write:

” in the policy The Responsibilities of Leaders, Hubbard’s ‘seven points of power’ suggested the ends justify the means when protecting the ‘power’ one relies upon for his own power. Hubbard suggests the physical beating of the critic of the power one relies upon and serves is commendable behavior. He even suggests that a real power would accept those who rely upon his power murdering enemies of the power. And that a true power would encourage his underlings to keep him ignorant of the crimes they commit in increasing his power. “


I know this Policy Letter was taken too literally too often.

However, LRH wrote at the very beginning of the Issue the following.

“I have written it this way, using two actual people, to give an example of magnitude enough to interest and to furnish some pleasant reading. And I used a military sphere so it could be seen clearly without restimulation of admin problems.”

- LRH

HCO PL 12 FEBR 1967, THE RESPONSIBILITIES OF LEADERS​
I don’t know if it is me only, but I never took the PL by the letter.
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martyrathbun09 | March 27, 2013 at 3:50 pm | Reply

Gotcha. LRH took it to the letter, which spawned Miscavige who took it to a whole new level. Will explain in next book.
 

Balthasar

Patron Meritorious
Re: Marty: "Hubbard policies that excused otherwise destructive behavior of beings"

Marty so it seems, with his latest blog entry, is going in the right direction. Now finally his analysis would appeal to a wider audience and specifically to a more well-read ex or independent Scientologist.

He seems to evolve and that's good, isn't it? Doesn't he stop attacking Miscavige for all the bad and look deeper? He even admits that LRH screwed up and that would have opened the door for what we are witnessing in Scientology now.

Yes :wow:! What a cognition! The blame is not on ONE person but on TWO :omg:! Wow - and I hear the sheeple clapping over there in frenzy cherishing guru Marty for sharing his great insight and wisdom :duh:!

Now, because I am in a hurry and can't comment any further on Martys output I just want to focus on what he is up to for the future.

His book “what is wrong with scientology” didn't sell. Mainly because he didn't reveal anything substantial. He could have written a stunner blowing the pants off but he choose to play it save (and boring). Now he is incorrectly assigning the “why” for his book failure as having targeted a limited and therefore wrong market of Independent and ex- Scientologists, which represent only a tiny fraction of what should be addressed.

With Martys smooth transition from an “on source” Scientologist into a more “mature expert” in Scientology, he hopes to sell more of the same.

It has nothing to do with "evolving" - it's positioning. That's what he is good at. BTW, I don't hate Marty. I am just watching that he isn't too much bullshitting:).
 
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Vittorio

Patron Meritorious
Re: Marty: "Hubbard policies that excused otherwise destructive behavior of beings"

*Yawn*

How long has he known this?

How long has this been available on the internet?

How long has Marty prevented other people from saying this?
 

anonomog

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: Marty: "Hubbard policies that excused otherwise destructive behavior of beings"

Wonder how long it will be before Marty has his Fuck it moment.
 

ClearedSP

Patron with Honors
Re: Marty: "Hubbard policies that excused otherwise destructive behavior of beings"

It has nothing to do with "evolving" - it's positioning.

Hard to be sure... yet. There are definitely those who believe that Hubbard's ideas were better in the beginning, then became tainted later. Like the running of the PC's own goals through 1963, then only implants after that. Or they draw the line at OT III, and reject most of the post-'67 stuff, or whatever. It's one way of coping with some of the obviously bad parts.

Next, he can start looking at how far back Hubbard's belief in inherently wimpy and insignificant thetans goes.

1963:
As not all living things are capable of attaining O.T. (the vast bulk of a any human population are possibly minion in origin) the task of rehabilitation is not as great as it looks.
(minion): You mock a mock-up up and then you endow it with some life, you see?

So in '63, most thetans are just the mockups of other thetans, and can never aspire to being OT. Why didn't they have a sign saying that in the registrar's offices, eh? ;-) But this wasn't anything new...

In 1952 (Electropsychometric Scouting) he talked about what sounds like body thetans, calling them "Targs," or slaves.

What appears to be a sci-fi version of Hubbard's self-image appears as Charles Martel, in The End Is Not Yet (1946). The contrast between Martel and the bulk of humanity is so stark, that even John Galt barely compares. Martel is Ubermensch, and most of humanity are stupid drones that he has to rescue from themselves.

I don't think it would be way off the mark to suggest that much of scientology and dianetics find their roots in Hubbard's pre-existing narcissism. He thought that he could just tell Sara to commit suicide, because he was so effing important. The guy who'd smash his name into history. The man who'd drive his son to suicide, then say "Look what he's done to me!" For all I know, he might have believed that he mocked most of us up himself. Whatever the answer, I don't think there's any point that scientologists can go back to, where Hubbard believed in any sort of natural equality, or even that most people were redeemable as more than followers. I think he believed in "big thetans" before he'd even defined thetans, and in his own mind, he was always one of them.
 

Infinite

Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
Re: Marty: "Hubbard policies that excused otherwise destructive behavior of beings"

Wonder how long it will be before Marty has his Fuck it moment.

Not for a long time, IMHO. Still, perhaps tomorrow he'll realise L Ron Hubbard was borrowing heavily from John Stuart Mill in that quote from the "Awareness of Awareness" public lecture. Not only that, it was just a few months later when . . .

. . . Hubbard's attitude had changed markedly. In one of his most bizarre pieces, "The Scientologist: A Manual on the Dissemination of Material," Hubbard recommended legal action against those who set up as independent practitioners of Scientology, or "squirrels" : "The purpose of the suit is to harass and discourage rather than to win. The law can be used very easily to harass, and enough harassment on somebody who is simply on the thin edge anyway, well knowing that he is not authorized, will generally be sufficient to cause his professional decease. If possible, of course, ruin him utterly."

Hubbard further urged that Scientologists employ private detectives to investigate critics of Scientology, adding: "we should be very alert to sue for slander at the slightest chance so as to discourage the public press from mentioning Scientology" . . .

. . . "the relentless promotion and cultural propaganda and pressure hammer" was already pounding away in the Scientology engine room long before the mid-1960s.

Another stumbling block to Marty's "Fuck It" moment might be the shift in perspective required to obnose that his premise (ie, Scientology shifted in its pursuit of "quality" to "quantity") is invalid. Firstly, it rests on the assumption that L Ron Hubbard cared at all about anyone's spiritual well-being, other than his own. There's the further assumption that L Ron Hubbard had even a fibre of the moral fortitude and intellectual insight of Buddha. The premise also ignores the more logical conclusion: specifically, that ever-increasing quantative measures were required to distract from, protect and, thus, perpetuate the underlying criminality of Dianetics / Scientology. Rather than a change in focus or usurping of a supposed original ideal, there never was any quality and it was always about quantity. Cash, mainly.
 
Re: Marty: "Hubbard policies that excused otherwise destructive behavior of beings"

.
.
Which cup are the criminal charges hidden under> The TAO cup?, The Secret cup?,
The Pick at Ron cup??

Those cups is moving 'round so fast I can't not tell which cup those criminal charges is hidden under. Are they really still under there? Maybe they is all disappeared? Ay mayzin!
 

CommunicatorIC

@IndieScieNews on Twitter
Marty: Scientology "world view tends to lock a Scientologist under a glass ceiling"

Marty: Scientology "world view tends to lock a Scientologist under a glass ceiling." ("The Tao of Physics")

http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2013/03/31/the-tao-of-physics/
The Tao of Physics

Posted on March 31, 2013 by martyrathbun09 | 15 Comments

Scientology technology is powerful in lifting an individual from being effect up to being more at cause.

In accomplishing that Scientology focuses heavily on, and makes great use of, Newtonian classic physics principles. Unfortunately, ultimately that world view tends to lock a Scientologist under a glass ceiling of sorts to further transcendence of awareness and qualities of equanimity.

Evaluated against the very axioms (including The Factors and Logics) Scientology is predicated upon one could easily reckon that to be the case. Paradoxically, Scientology contains laws of interpretation that make one of its own Logics, critical to growth and transcendence, forbidden practice:

Logic 8: A Datum can be evaluated only by a datum of comparable magnitude.


Thus, the first comprehensive fusion of Eastern thought with Western science ultimately disallowed study of either in the continuing search for truth and higher levels of consciousness.

A very good primer for a) evaluating what is valuable about one’s Scientology experience and what about Scientology makes it so effective, and b) beginning the process of transcending from where Scientology might leave one in terms of consciousness, is the book The Tao of Physics by Fritjof Capra (recommended to me by the irrepressible Scott Campbell).

Even though the book was first published in 1975, and it has been followed by dozens of authors treading similar ground of analyzing breakthroughs in sub atomic physics to Eastern wisdom and consciousness, I have found it to be the most thorough, layman-friendly piece on the subject to date.

I highly recommend this book to anyone who has experienced Scientology. Most particularly to those who have completed the Scientology OT Levels, started the Scientology OT Levels, or who have any intention of pursuing them in the future. It will provide vital context for your experience. It might help prevent you from becoming fixated, and set up for a big lose, on the quest for total causation. And it might help to take you to higher levels of consciousness not contemplated or permitted in Scientology (even through consequent practice of Scientology techniques).

As I have noted before, I believe that it is essential to the transcendence of Scientology to rise above the fixation on attaining to the permanent state of causation. The fixation can ultimately result in a painful state of effect or an arrogant state of hallucinatory cause. In either event, it parks one in any quest for continuing transcendence to higher states of being.

Here is an excerpt from the Tao of Physics that gives a brief description how the confluence of Eastern wisdom and Western science supports that view:

Many of the Eastern teachers emphasize that thought must take place in time, but that vision can transcend it. ‘Vision’, says Govinda, ‘is bound up with a space of a higher dimension, and therefore timeless.’ The space-time of relativistic physics is a similar timeless space of a higher dimension. All events in it are interconnected, but the connections are not causal. Particle interactions can be interpreted in terms of cause and effect only when the space-time diagrams are read in a definite direction, e.g. from the bottom to the top (note: space-time diagrams are explained earlier in the book). When they are taken as four-dimensional patterns without any definite direction of time attached to them, there is no ‘before’ and no ‘after’, and thus no causation.

Similarly, the Eastern mystics assert that in transcending time, they also transcend the world of cause and effect. Like our ordinary notions of space and time, causation is an idea which is limited to a certain experience of the world and has to be abandoned when this experience is extended. In the words of Swami Vivekananda,


Time, space and causation are like the glass through which the Absolute is seen…In the Absolute there is neither time, space nor causation.


The Eastern spiritual traditions show their followers various ways of going beyond the ordinary experience of time and of freeing themselves from the chain of cause and effect – from the bondage of karma, as the Hindus and Buddhists say. It has therefore been said that Eastern mysticism is a liberation from time. In a way the same may be said of relativistic physics.
 
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