Marty Rathbun Uses Hushmail

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Simply because as I said - I fail to see how my contribution would in any way be a dot in a scenario where any of the crimes could be stopped. Unless one has a very vivid or dramatic imagination.

Is it only about crimes being stopped.I have been interested to find out *what* osa does, *how* they do it, *who they do it to etc.
I would think that many here, as exes, have been past tragets of osa and some may be present targets. Why is it so hard to understand that a bit of knowledge about OSA from those that worked for them would be important to such people. Even knowledge about what OSA does not do or cannot do is better than vague wondering if an outfit with the reputation of osa might be targeting you.
Your view that OSA is like bambi on ice in certain areas may be relevant but they have shown themselves, nonetheless to be like bambi with any number of people who *can* use expert knowledge to ruin people's lives.
 

nozeno

Gold Meritorious Patron
Their tactics on the net... You'll have to wait until hell freezes over. I do not think any of them have a clue about how OSA was operating a PC much less conducted ops on the Internet. They wouldn't use Hushmail if they were savvy. Your OP sorta proves the point.

And I think you may be naive if you think they can't hire some individual or group that DOES know their way around the internet.

Maybe the group you were involved with didn't know an operating system from an overt, but I find it highly unlikely that they don't have someone who does.
 

Wisened One

Crusader
Here's the problem. Marty is a Scientologist. He is probably trying to do the right thing. He feels a moral responsibility to make amends for anything he's done that wasn't the greatest good and blah blah blah.

But....the problem is that no matter what condition formula he does, no matter what amends project he plans to have his true friends sign off on.....it most certainly will NOT have anything in it that discloses the fact that Scientology doctrine applied correctly or incorrectly results in crime and insanity and illness and death.

He still believes that there is a state of Clear that has been attained and can be attained. He still believes that a Cleared planet is the best possible long term solution to mankinds ills. He has no interest in undoing his own fixed ideas and his own delusions.

That's the problem and that's the frustration. Many of us have written our stories here on ESMB and while writing our experience we have uncovered things that we have done that we truly regret. But of all the things I've done the thing I regret the most is trying to save the world with Scientology. It was not good. it was not helpful. It was stupid and dangerous. People went crazy because of it. People got sick because of it. People died because of it.
I'm sorry I convinced people that the dreams they had before Scientology were unimportant and that clearing the planet was the only thing that mattered. I'm sorry that I helped people abandon their families and give their children to the cult to become slave labor.

But the reason I'm sorry is because I now believe in my heart of hearts that there are no clears; there are no OTs; there is no utopian cleared planet that will be created by the sacrifices I so earnestly convinced myself and others to make.

Marty Rathbun is the perfect con man, because he still buys the con.

Sad really.

(....and I'm not agreeing with Alanzo, just because I want to get in his good graces, because he's one of the few ESMBers who has never invited me to visit him. It's true I'd love to meet him face to face and smoke a cigar and drink a tawny port. But that's not why I'm speaking up. I really mean it.)

:goodposting: :goodposting: :goodposting: :thankyou: GT! :thumbsup:

Far from apologizing, Marty has gone a long way towards justifying his involvement in the Dirty Tricks and crimes committed against everyone from David Mayo to Bob Minton. While at the same time denying any crimes, except those he chooses to admit to, as long as he thinks he can treat them as beyond the statute of limitations. Which they're not.

Zinj

:thankyou: too, Zinj!! :yes:
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
It continually amazes me what strange bedfellows are to be found in the 'Get Over It!' camp. I've got nothing against people who choose to 'Get Over It!' and move on to other subjects of more interest to them.

But, 'Get Over It!' isn't just a personal decision for some; it's a mandate for all. *Everyone* must 'Get Over It!'. 'Stop Looking!', 'Don't Ask!', 'Get A Life!', and, that includes such catcalls from people who have *not* 'Gotten Over It!' themselves, but merely want everyone else to cease their involvement in 'Areas of Interest They Shouldn't Be Interested In!'

So, Geir says 'Some Dots You Can't Have, Because They're Not Interesting!' and Marty says 'Ignore The Church And All Its Crimes Because The Church Is Dead, Except When They're Attacking Me, But, Don't Ask About When I *Was* The Church Attacking Others, Because It's Time To Get Over It!'

So, how far someone wants to 'get over' Scientology is a personal decision, but, some seem to want to define it for others. Some in a suspiciously self-serving manner.

For me, no comprehension of Scientology will be complete until *all* the history is visible. Until all the crimes are known. Until all of the secrets are aired. That may be embarrassing to some. That may be especially inconvenient for those trying to breathe new life into the corpse. But, to understand what Zombie Scientology would be like, it'd be best to examine closely what historical Scientology actually *did*.

Even if it means not 'getting over it'.

Oh, and by the way; the 'original Scientology' *isn't* dead yet... despite the smell. It's just playing possum and hoping to recover. It's not time to stop killing it yet.

Zinj
 

AnonKat

Crusader
Do not get over it ever. But it stops when you want to pry into Geir's privacy


It continually amazes me what strange bedfellows are to be found in the 'Get Over It!' camp. I've got nothing against people who choose to 'Get Over It!' and move on to other subjects of more interest to them.

But, 'Get Over It!' isn't just a personal decision for some; it's a mandate for all. *Everyone* must 'Get Over It!'. 'Stop Looking!', 'Don't Ask!', 'Get A Life!', and, that includes such catcalls from people who have *not* 'Gotten Over It!' themselves, but merely want everyone else to cease their involvement in 'Areas of Interest They Shouldn't Be Interested In!'

So, Geir says 'Some Dots You Can't Have, Because They're Not Interesting!' and Marty says 'Ignore The Church And All Its Crimes Because The Church Is Dead, Except When They're Attacking Me, But, Don't Ask About When I *Was* The Church Attacking Others, Because It's Time To Get Over It!'

So, how far someone wants to 'get over' Scientology is a personal decision, but, some seem to want to define it for others. Some in a suspiciously self-serving manner.

For me, no comprehension of Scientology will be complete until *all* the history is visible. Until all the crimes are known. Until all of the secrets are aired. That may be embarrassing to some. That may be especially inconvenient for those trying to breathe new life into the corpse. But, to understand what Zombie Scientology would be like, it'd be best to examine closely what historical Scientology actually *did*.

Even if it means not 'getting over it'.

Oh, and by the way; the 'original Scientology' *isn't* dead yet... despite the smell. It's just playing possum and hoping to recover. It's not time to stop killing it yet.

Zinj
 

AnonyMary

Formerly Fooled - Finally Free
As do Stacy Brooks, who's apparently getting 'processing' from Marty, and even Richard Behar and John Sweeney.

Am I surprised? No; that seems to be at least one major 'point' of the MartyLand Op. (not the only one)

Disappointed in these people? Yes; a little bit.

Zinj

"even Richard Behar"????

Hard to believe. Please provide evidence of that.
 

AnonKat

Crusader
Richard Behar

"even Richard Behar"????

Hard to believe. Please provide evidence of that.

http://www.richardbehar.com/

Richard Behar | September 16, 2010 at 4:06 pm | Reply
Hi Mike,

Thanks. Certainly no offense taken. I was at a big awards dinner some years ago, and a journalist — just back from Iraq — took the mike and answered a question about whether he would ever return there for a second round. “Absolutely, probably, maybe,” he responded. LOL. Actually, the Scientology subject is too compelling and important to ever be finished with it. (Sadly, for a variety of reasons, I doubt that any major magazine would devote the resources and lengthy space to it today. I’d love to be wrong on that.) Cheers. -Rich

Jim Logan | September 16, 2010 at 5:38 pm | Reply
Hello Richard,
I was talking with a ‘fact checker’ from a major magazine the other day. In the course of checking, inevitably it came up that the subject of Scientology is as you have pointed out “too compelling and important ” to be embraced in a one-off piece.

The story at hand is the DM fiasco.

What Scientology actually represents…well, that story is being played out in life. Big story, that.

You, me, lots of others, as it postulates in DMSMH ‘may we never be the same’.

mrinder | September 16, 2010 at 7:10 pm | Reply
Rich — Yeah, that’s a pretty good sum up. As for any major magazine devoting resources or space today — I think you may be in for a surprise. Best wishes to you. Mike

Karen#1 | September 16, 2010 at 10:05 pm | Reply
Richard ~~
Re:
“Major Magazines devoting resources” see private Email to you

http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2010/09/15/bbc-one-panorama-finally/#comments
 

AnonyMary

Formerly Fooled - Finally Free
'Know' what? I include Stacy because of her 'leaked' email. The others I'm judging on the basis of their own words or actions; Behar's latest posts to MartyLand; Sweeney's inclusion of Mike Rinder in the upcoming Panorama show and the trailer leading up to it. I have no reason to doubt the authenticity of Stacy's email, although it might be a fake. No one has claimed as much though. Sweeney and Behar might be overdrawn as 'friends', but, at least the relationship seems cordial and I've seen no sign of opposition.

I don't 'know' anything you don't or couldn't. I just evaluate by what I *see*; not my wishful thinking.

Zinj

Where are they? Could'nt find anything written by Behar.
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
Where are they? Could'nt find anything written by Behar.


Starting here; Behar has a number of comments to the thread, culminating in Marty's claim that he's 'changed his mind about Scientology thanks to Marty's input':
http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2010/09/15/bbc-one-panorama-finally/#comments
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Richard Behar | September 16, 2010 at 1:07 pm | Reply

Hi everyone, Richard Behar here. Sweeney, kudos — you had me spitting up in laughter. Let’s get together again when you’re not being chased. Mike [Rinder], for me it’s not a matter of having lacked courage, so much as not wanting to spend another 10 years in litigation, etc., unless I felt I could move the ball at least 30 yards down the field from where I left things. That’s what I always told people when asked if I’d do another piece. Too many of those years in litigation morphed me into a part-time reporter [read: less time for other exposes that I felt should be done.] That said, I may return to it in a book someday. All best to you. -Rich

*
martyrathbun09 | September 16, 2010 at 1:28 pm | Reply

Rich,
Thanks for weighing in. I’ve heard of some of the monsters you have tackled since. Having spent three years in indy media I, for one, appreciate your response.
Marty
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mrinder | September 16, 2010 at 2:37 pm | Reply

Rich– thanks for your comment. I had no idea why you didn’t do another story, but I know that the pressure brought to bear (in whatever form) is a serious deterrent to anyone who steps up to the plate for one round. Very few come back for a second helping — my comment concerned the courage of Sweeney rather than lack of courage of anyone else. Mike


Zinj
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
Do not get over it ever. But it stops when you want to pry into Geir's privacy

How the *hell* do you read that I want to pry into Geir Isene's 'privacy'??? What are you? A moron?

Geir is a public commenter on current public events. I not only know nothing of his private life; I don't *want* to know about his 'private' life. Whatever he's done to assist the criminal cult of Scientology however, is *not* private. It's about as public as it can get.

But, even so, what have *I* demanded of him? If anything, he's a Scientology stooge. I doubt he has any knowledge of Scientology Dirty Tricks beyond what they *chose* to let him see. And, I don't doubt that he's happy to leave it at that.

But, if he thinks his little piece of the turd is the whole meal, well, he's naive at best.

Zinj
 

AnonKat

Crusader
Wow you are just Mr. Friendly himself , Going back to insults again Zinj ?

How the *hell* do you read that I want to pry into Geir Isene's 'privacy'??? What are you? A moron?

Geir is a public commenter on current public events. I not only know nothing of his private life; I don't *want* to know about his 'private' life. Whatever he's done to assist the criminal cult of Scientology however, is *not* private. It's about as public as it can get.

But, even so, what have *I* demanded of him? If anything, he's a Scientology stooge. I doubt he has any knowledge of Scientology Dirty Tricks beyond what they *chose* to let him see. And, I don't doubt that he's happy to leave it at that.

But, if he thinks his little piece of the turd is the whole meal, well, he's naive at best.

Zinj[/QUOTE
 

Isene

Patron with Honors
Final words from me here:

As I said, obviously they are hiring people to do Internet stuff - just like they enlisted me.

No, I am not naive when it comes to what OSA is capable of.

I said what my own experiences was. That's all.

And no, I cannot see how Al can conclude that what I had to offer can in any way, shape or form contribute to what he is stretching it to mean.

But, as too often, some commence to manufacture what my intentions or thoughts are. It reminds me of how scientologists so often judge people by next to no evidence; He is out-ethics, he's PTS, he's got overts, engram in restim. You name it.
 

Veda

Sponsor
Emerging from a visit with Marty Rathbun, now retired Superior Court Judge Paul G. Breckenridge was quick to clarify his comments of over a quarter century ago:

"I know that, regarding L. Ron Hubbard, I wrote and said that, 'the evidence portrays a man who has been virtually a pathological liar when it comes to his history, background and achievements', and that, 'the writings and documents in evidence additionally reflect his egotism, greed, avarice, lust for power, and vindictiveness and aggressiveness against persons perceived by him to be disloyal or hostile.' And I know I wrote and said that Mr. Hubbard 'manipulated' Scientologists, but I was way out of line in all of that, and just plain wrong.

"After spending some time with the charming Mr. Rathbun, I can see that L. Ron Hubbard was a fine and brilliant man, and I have come to realize that what I have written and said, in the past, may have injured the applied religious philosophy of Scientology, which in my studied opinion may be the only hope for sanity in future generations. My hope, now, is that those who have abandoned Scientology in disillusionment will recognize that there is nothing really wrong with Scientology, other than its current leader David Miscavige, and the misunderstandings and misapplications that this suppressive Miscavige person has brought about, and that they will consider returning to this wonderful applied religious philosophy and being Scientologists again."

Rathbun and the retired Judge embraced warmly, and the elderly Judge could be overheard humming the 'Moving on up!' theme song as he walked to his car. "I'll be back in a month to start my adventure up Ron's Bridge!" were the Judge's parting words, as he drove off happily.
 

AnonKat

Crusader
Brilliant Judge


'the evidence portrays a man who has been virtually a pathological liar when it comes to his history, background and achievements', and that, 'the writings and documents in evidence additionally reflect his egotism, greed, avarice, lust for power, and vindictiveness and aggressiveness against persons perceived by him to be disloyal or hostile.'
 

Veda

Sponsor
You should read his entire summation.

The above was just a short excerpt. Here's a little more - and without the Indy/FZ Scientology fantasy.

From Judge Breckenridge, 1984:

"As indicated by its factual findings, the court finds the testimony of Gerald and Joycelyn Armstrong, Laurel Sullivan...Omar Garrison, Kima Douglas, and Homer Shomer to be credible, extremely persuasive... In all critical and important matters their testimony was precise, accurate and rang true...

"The organization clearly is schizophrenic and paranoid, and this bizarre combination seems to be a reflection of its founder LRH. The evidence portrays a man who has been virtually a pathological liar...

"The writings and documents in evidence additionally reflect his egotism, greed, avarice, lust for power, and vindictiveness and aggressiveness against persons perceived by him to be disloyal or hostile.

"At the same time it appears that he is charismatic and highly capable of motivating, organizing, controlling, manipulating, and inspiring his adherents..."
 
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