Marty says steer clear of Debbie Cook

G

Gottabrain

Guest
Despite DM constantly shifting around people in different positions, Debbie remained in the same powerful, executive position for years, even making reg and book commissions to live very well material-wise.

My gut feeling is she has some inside info on DM and can reveal it if he hassles her. Nobody survives exec positions in the SO without playing a lot of politics.
 

johnAnchovie

Still raging
Snip- But I suspect Rinder will probably never talk to you about anything again!.. Did you find out how they were going to topple Miscavige? So far nothing has happened, as another poster noted.

Yes, I consider my bridges with Herr Rinder and Rathburn to be well burned. I did hope to rekindle some freindships with former fellow comrades who now sail under Marty's Independent flag, it depends on their grapevine and on whether they are enforcing internal ethics policies, I hope some do stay in touch, but no breath holding going on at this end.

No, Pete, I spent an evening and a prolonged breakfast with a group of these independent scientologists, and four on the fence scientologists. I was not out to gather 'intelligence' just to, well, catch with old friends. Immediatly after making the slip, the person tried to back peddle and got very flustered, had they not done that I might not have taken any notice, but that underlined that there was a 'confidential' program in train.

It was not the information that I found astounding or even particularly interesting, I kind of took it as read that there was a plan or dream or sorts in the offing. What was astounding was being, for the first time in five years, with a group of people talking and thinking in Scientology speak and think. That was a most disconcerting and frankly, troubling experience. I felt blood vessels in my brain rupture.

One fellow, a still in, tried to run a coffee shop process on me to find my ARC X with the tech. Pedrofcuk of Dublin Anon and protest fame was with me and he was as freaked out as I was with regard to their behaviour. It has taken some reflection to process what we experienced.

The encounter brought home to me just how far gone from the real world these people are, they speak gobbeldy gook. They cannot see or even perceive the world around them, so deeply are they lost in the Hubbard faux reality.

I watched them, I like watching people, it is a little hobby of mine. When these people, all former SO, weren’t jabbering on in gap-less compulsive communication about how creepy and weird the freezone people are, what they are going to do once they get St. Hill back and who they were in their past lives, they stared into the half distance. Cogs spinning in their heads: trying process what had happened to them and what they were doing to themselves.

I was astounded watching them chain smoke, their manic restless moves, fixed and forced (pardon the language) up-tone 'beingnesses'. Blinkless eyes. If you met a person acting like that you would assume mental illness, when you meet and interact with a group of people in this mode, it is a bit creepy. It is mental illness. That is what I found frightening, Hubbard created a system that is in use daily in the civilized world, that induces mental illness on an industrial scale. And I was like that, just a few short years ago. I shudder.

Sorry Petey, I went off the point. The info garnered is what I garnered, it is fairly obvious that they do have a plan of sorts, these people are working in some kind of a co-ordinated fashion. I don't know, or really care, what degree of wishful thinking is involved, but they, being scientologists, are utterly convinced of the rightness of their plan. What I found genuinely chilling was that these people were out yet 100 percent 'in', there had been no diminishing of the conditioning, no reflection, no self examination. They were still Sea Org Members, still on mission.
 
G

Gottabrain

Guest

It was not the information that I found astounding or even particularly interesting, I kind of took it as read that there was a plan or dream or sorts in the offing. What was astounding was being, for the first time in five years, with a group of people talking and thinking in Scientology speak and think. That was a most disconcerting and frankly, troubling experience. I felt blood vessels in my brain rupture.

One fellow, a still in, tried to run a coffee shop process on me to find my ARC X with the tech. Pedrofcuk of Dublin Anon and protest fame was with me and he was as freaked out as I was with regard to their behaviour. It has taken some reflection to process what we experienced.

The encounter brought home to me just how far gone from the real world these people are, they speak gobbeldy gook. They cannot see or even perceive the world around them, so deeply are they lost in the Hubbard faux reality.

I watched them, I like watching people, it is a little hobby of mine. When these people, all former SO, weren’t jabbering on in gap-less compulsive communication about how creepy and weird the freezone people are, what they are going to do once they get St. Hill back and who they were in their past lives, they stared into the half distance. Cogs spinning in their heads: trying process what had happened to them and what they were doing to themselves.

I was astounded watching them chain smoke, their manic restless moves, fixed and forced (pardon the language) up-tone 'beingnesses'. Blinkless eyes. If you met a person acting like that you would assume mental illness, when you meet and interact with a group of people in this mode, it is a bit creepy. It is mental illness. That is what I found frightening, Hubbard created a system that is in use daily in the civilized world, that induces mental illness on an industrial scale. And I was like that, just a few short years ago. I shudder.

Sorry Petey, I went off the point. The info garnered is what I garnered, it is fairly obvious that they do have a plan of sorts, these people are working in some kind of a co-ordinated fashion. I don't know, or really care, what degree of wishful thinking is involved, but they, being scientologists, are utterly convinced of the rightness of their plan. What I found genuinely chilling was that these people were out yet 100 percent 'in', there had been no diminishing of the conditioning, no reflection, no self examination. They were still Sea Org Members, still on mission.

Hi John Anchovie,

SO happy to have you here on exScn with me and so many others who are fully out. Your observations are terrific. Thanks for all the information.

I thought Marty had a plan to take over corporate Scn when he recently mentioned on his Board that he is still listed as a legal corporate member of RTC. You've confirmed my thoughts on this.

Jesse Prince mentioned what a power shit-fight it was the last time around, when Hubbard died. Can you imagine how it is now that DM has had over two decades to legally and physically armor himself? Marty and co are living in la la land thinking they are going to move in and take over. Delusions of grandeur have always been part of Scn. Marty was clueless that Debbie was gearing up for action, so he hasn't infiltrated very deeply, has he?

But telling stories of grand things like taking over billion dollar corporations and putting your friends in charge is a Hubbardian device that Marty learned very well. Some people will always be followers. It is their nature. Marty lives off their admiration and keeps feeding their dreams and as long as he does so, it really doesn't matter that his plan is ridiculous, he still gets to be a cult leader with fools sucking up to his every word. He's got a good deal.

My most difficult challenge after Scn has been reconciling that there was some good in it. The hardest thing I've done has been coming back to my Scn past two years ago here on exscn. I left it behind for as long as I could, as many others have done. It was crazy stuff, still is.

But it promoted positive thinking. It promoted using your abilities to their fullest. The problem is, it robbed me of all independence and rights to my life, actions, thinking processes, earned money, and production - and by so doing, stole years from my life.

To keep the positive thinking and believing in self while remaining truly independent in thought and life, to reincorporate these things in my life as my own identity has been my focus. Because there is no other choice.

I cannot hate my experience in Scn. Mainly because hate does not allow me to move on.

Yes, Scn is an addiction. As you said, it causes mental illness - specifically, dissociation. Its founder was a chronic story teller, liar, braggart, megalomaniac and selfish, power-hungry, admiration-craving, paranoid thief because he was dissociated. I don't believe Hubbard intended to cause the dissociation in others. Its the end-result of listening and following every word of a madman so that one thinks like him and thereby becomes just as mad.
 
Marty is keeping people in. People who think that if they do away with DM they might get Marty. Now their indecision is half solved. They can join the Debbie party and feel that they are taking a more on policy stance than joining Marty.
Which means they can decide to wait and see how Debbie's little trolley rolls along. If things get crappy she and her on policy posse might save the day. What a relief not to have to make a final decision on Marty. The fence was getting uncomfortable but Debbie has just put a couple of pillows under their bums.

Do all of Marty's supporters like the hypothetical Marty-as-leader idea, or do they just like him for his outspokeness against DM?. They are two different things, and now that Debbie is riding her pure on-policy chariot through the town, the difference may be becoming more significant. I dunno if she wants to be boss lady of the cult but she might be able to help keep Marty out of that job and some who are in and some who are out might like that. More DAing of Debs by Marty coming to a website near you soon, is my guess.
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
. . . and now that Debbie is riding her pure on-policy chariot through the town <snip>

Is she? I thought she just did the email and hasn't said anything publicly since. I read here that she was answering emails, but that isn't the same as setting up a website or blog and visibly continuing to push a message.

Paul
 

Smilla

Ordinary Human
I don't care much what Debbie does, unless she talks to Eliot Ness - which is what I'd like her to do. Sooner or later someone will - if only to save their own skin.

Eliot-Ness.jpg

 

afaceinthecrowd

Gold Meritorious Patron
I put up a few posts over the last year or so saying that Marty and the Ex Int folks have, IMO, formed a “Senior Sea Org” with Admin Scales, Evals, Mission Orders and all that jolly good rot. Nearly all of the Ex Int Management folks in Marty’s “SS” posse have no firsthand experience in building or running a Public Service Unit, especially a Class V Org or Mission. They know how to “Run Things”, or at least think they do, but they don’t know how “Do Things”.

His “Field Practice” is, in part, a “Front”, IMO. It makes Marty more “real”, “credible” and “El Ron like” (by that I mean the false image that the Indies have of El Ron). However, the big “prize” is to “rescue” the “Body of the Church”. “Guerrilla War” and “The Art of War” are part of the SSers strategic and tactical models. Debbie threw a wrench in the works by introducing the specter of “Internecine War”.

I don't think Debbie is part of the SS Posse and that makes her potentially very "dangerous" indeed. The SS Posse doesn't want to have to "make peace" with a "New Regime" as part of "reconstruction" of the "reformed 'Church'"; Spin and Marty want to ride through the cheering throngs in streets of Havana in a Jeep, headed to El Presidente's Palace like Che and Fidel. As I've said before, I honestly think Marty sees himself as "The Lieutenant" in El Ron's "Final Blackout".

One of the biggie WTF’s for me during my Scn/SO days was seeing so many highly trained and audited people, especially El Ron, so enamored and desperate to be “Persona's”. To me, personally, the “Persona” aspect of Scn is a pronounced telltale sign that it is not the “Road to Truth”. I have nothing wrong, per se, with “Persona's” but, I have never desired to be one and find that the times in my life when I was “Personafied” for a while were the times that my true awareness of others and the life around me was skewed.

Along with the “Golden Rule”, one of the precepts I adopted before Scn and have tried to live my life by, as best I can, is to try and put myself in the shoes of another. A large part of Scn is about you becoming some kinda “Persona” and a large part of the Sea Org is about you becoming the “Persona” that determines and enforces what pair of shoes another shall wear.

Marty, to me, more and more looks like a “Son of Frankenstein” ("No, it’s Frraunkinshteen!" …Gawd I love that flick) Marty wants to create a new, improved monster with a "better" brain. However, I’m glad he’s doing what he’s doing. He has an important “role” and “character” to play in this whole drama and, so far, he’s right on cue.

I'm gonna end off here and go call my Broker and put in a "Buy Order" on Popcorn Futures...I think it's gonna be one helluva year. :thumbsup:

Face :)
 
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NCSP

Patron Meritorious
Is she? I thought she just did the email and hasn't said anything publicly since. I read here that she was answering emails, but that isn't the same as setting up a website or blog and visibly continuing to push a message.

Paul

You're essentially right, but remember she also sent that letter to the (fmr) SP Times. That was the moment I knew she was in it to win it because at the same time as she's "Shocked! Shocked!" that her email got out, she's very pointedly not taking back a single word.

I think the fact that there's been no public recantation (surely OSA's #1 goal right now) is as significant as the fact that she hasn't had a more public profile in support of her email.
 

Smilla

Ordinary Human
I put up a few posts over the last year or so saying that Marty and the Ex Int folks have, IMO, formed a “Senior Sea Org” with Admin Scales, Evals, Mission Orders and all that jolly good rot. Nearly all of the Ex Int Management folks in Marty’s “SS” posse have no firsthand experience in building or running a Public Service Unit, especially a Class V Org or Mission. They know how to “Run Things”, or at least think they do, but they don’t know how “Do Things”.

His “Field Practice” is, in part, a “Front”, IMO. It makes Marty more “real”, “credible” and “El Ron like” (by that I mean the false image that the Indies have of El Ron). However, the big “prize” is to “rescue” the “Body of the Church”. “Guerrilla War” and “The Art of War” are part of the SSers strategic and tactical models. Debbie threw a wrench in the works by introducing the possibility of “Internecine War”.


I don't think Debbie is part of the SS Posse and that makes her potentially very "dangerous" indeed. The SS Posse doesn't want to have to "make peace" with a "New Regime" as part of "reconstruction" of the "reformed 'Church'"; they want to ride through the cheering throngs in streets of Havana in a Jeep, headed to El Presidente's Palace like Fidel. As I've said before, I honestly think Marty sees himself as "The Lieutenant in El Ron's "Final Blackout".

One of the biggie WTF’s for me during my Scn/SO days was seeing so many highly trained and audited people, especially El Ron, so enamored and desperate to be “Persona's”. To me, personally, the “Persona” aspect of Scn is a pronounced telltale sign that it is not the “Road to Truth”. I have nothing wrong, per se, with “Persona's” but, I have never desired to be one and find that the times in my life when I was “Personafied” for a while were the times that my true awareness of others and the life around me was skewed.

Along with the “Golden Rule”, one of the precepts I adopted before Scn and have tried to live my life by, as best I can, is to try and put myself in the shoes of another. A large part of Scn is about you becoming some kinda “Persona” and a large part of the Sea Org is about you becoming the “Persona” that determines and enforces what pair of shoes another shall wear.

Marty, to me, more and more looks like a “Child of Frankenstein” (No, it’s Frraunkinshteen! …Gawd I love that flick). However, I’m glad he’s doing what he’s doing. He has an important “role” and “character” to play in this whole drama and, so far, he’s right on cue.

I'm gonna end off here and go call my Broker and put in a "Buy Order" on Popcorn Futures...I think it's gonna be one helluva year. :thumbsup:

Face :)

Marty likes people to see him as Scientology's Martin Luther. I see him as being more like Scientology's Rudolf Hess.
 

lotus

stubborn rebel sheep!
IMO

Per scientology KSW that Marty was in charge of applying for 25 years
and per intellegiencia practices that he ensure to be enforced by OSA

He probably see the whole situation + or - like this:

We are engaged in a fucking deadly activity to save $cientology and this sector of the universe. The true SP has to be fought and destroy
We are the most ethical group to bring ethics and order in
because We have the technology on Source
Deddie Cook
is with us or against us

Heil Hubbard
Hip hip hip
Horray
:unsure:
 

Gadfly

Crusader
Is she? I thought she just did the email and hasn't said anything publicly since. I read here that she was answering emails, but that isn't the same as setting up a website or blog and visibly continuing to push a message.

Paul

I sent her an e-mail about 2 1/2 weeks ago. I didn't say who or what I was, or what my views were, and simply acknowledged her good work.

I did say that whether she knew it or not, she would soon be declared suppressive by the C of S, and that I hoped that she would continue to "rally the troops" by creating a web site and blog.

I never got an answer. And, so far no web site or blog. :confused2:
 

lotus

stubborn rebel sheep!
Should be good time for Marty to plug

Ethics conditiond formulas

Now "upgraded" by the Ethics Officer to a condition of Liability, the formula is:

1. Decide who are one's friends.

2. Deliver an effective blow to the enemies of the group one has been pretending to be part of despite personal danger.

3. Make up the damage one has done by personal contribution far beyond the ordinary demands of a group member.

4. Apply for re-entry to the group by asking the permission of each member of it to rejoin and rejoining only by majority permission, and if refused, repeating steps 2-4 until one is allowed to be a group member again.
 
Marty likes people to see him as Scientology's Martin Luther. I see him as being more like Scientology's Rudolf Hess.

Frankly one man's luther IS another man's hess. Luther's history isn't all that pristine either, e.g. the German Peasant's War.


Mark A. Baker
 

sp declared

Patron with Honors
Second Hand Evidence

A very good friend of mine who wrote to Debbie disclosing his ID, was called in for handling.

The only people you can trust in the scientology ecosystem are the declared SP's. They are the only one who have a little bit of honor left. The scientologist in good standing with the C. of S. will sell you at the drop of a quarter just to propitiate his handlers or to get the ok on his next OT eligibility. It doesn't matter whether they are OT 5, 7, 8 or Febc trained or whether they were the course admin or the captain FLB. They will betray you, turn you in or disconnect from you because they have no honour whatsoever.

Whether you agree or not with Marty's line is beside the point. The point is: Debbie is not reliable if you wish to protect your ID.

S.D.
 

Sindy

Crusader
Re: Second Hand Evidence

A very good friend of mine who wrote to Debbie disclosing his ID, was called in for handling.

The only people you can trust in the scientology ecosystem are the declared SP's. They are the only one who have a little bit of honor left. The scientologist in good standing with the C. of S. will sell you at the drop of a quarter just to propitiate his handlers or to get the ok on his next OT eligibility. It doesn't matter whether they are OT 5, 7, 8 or Febc trained or whether they were the course admin or the captain FLB. They will betray you, turn you in or disconnect from you because they have no honour whatsoever.

Whether you agree or not with Marty's line is beside the point. The point is: Debbie is not reliable if you wish to protect your ID.

S.D.

Good points although to be picayune, the church/OSA can even set up a persona with a fake SP Declare. In addition (and I don't know how it happens, really) there are people who have spoken out that they haven't quite gotten around to declaring yet. Anyway, though, your point is well taken.

Leaving has to be a very personal decision. It's nice to have people on the outside, to help when one leaves, but unless people are pretty firm on what they, themselves, have observed regardless of the observations of a Debbie Cook, Marty Rathbun, et al, and have decided no matter what that they will not contribute to that anymore, then they are susceptible to being yanked back in the fold.

In my opinion, one has to be willing to be found out and not care. That's just my opinion. It takes a lot to leave so one better be strong in one's convictions. The very need of a leader is indicative of not having made the transition from cultie to sovereign being.
 

afaceinthecrowd

Gold Meritorious Patron


S.D.,

Your absolutely correct.

No Scn…Churchie or Indie…is to me “reliable”, period.

I have no problem with Marty saying “be careful” regarding Debbie.

What I do have a problem with is his “El Ronesque” Dead Agenty liturgy when doing so.

But hey, I’m not an Scn anymore so I guess I just don’t have an appreciation for “OT” style compassion and communication. :coolwink:

Face :)
 

Good twin

Floater
I haven't been declared AFAIK. I still have Scientologists in good standing who send me letters and messages on Facebook and such. They don't try to "handle" me anymore. I assume this is because they know. They know I will never be handled and come back to the church for service or servitude. They know that if they bring it up I will be honest with them. They know that they would have to make a choice to handle or disconnect if they hear what I have to say.

I'm okay with that. I know that they know. That means they have someone to talk to when the church betrays them or they just realize they are done. I have no doubt that OSA knows who I am and what I've said and who I associate with. But I don't care. Like Synthia said it is the only defense. They could call me in for a handling, but I don't have to go. Under the radar is a very uncomfortable place.

Did Alanzo ever get declared? Such a silly oversight by the cult. :eyeroll:
 

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
Re: Second Hand Evidence

Hubbards "system" produces cowards, that is what it specializes in. Like all totalitarian organizations it wants a cowed and compliant population.

It is important when dealing with the likes of Debbie, Marty and Mike that they are still trying to survive within the mindset.

To malquote Shakespeare

"Thus Scientology does make Cowards of us all"

A very good friend of mine who wrote to Debbie disclosing his ID, was called in for handling.

The only people you can trust in the scientology ecosystem are the declared SP's. They are the only one who have a little bit of honor left. The scientologist in good standing with the C. of S. will sell you at the drop of a quarter just to propitiate his handlers or to get the ok on his next OT eligibility. It doesn't matter whether they are OT 5, 7, 8 or Febc trained or whether they were the course admin or the captain FLB. They will betray you, turn you in or disconnect from you because they have no honour whatsoever.

Whether you agree or not with Marty's line is beside the point. The point is: Debbie is not reliable if you wish to protect your ID.

S.D.
 

Ladybird

Silver Meritorious Patron
Look what Marty did. He posted Debbie Cooks story and then she went back to the cult. When she spoke up again a couple months ago, Marty once again tried to ride on her coat tails. Now he has turned against her and is fair gaming her because she didn't play along with his game.

Marty and David Miscavige are among the best friends the critics and survivors of the cult have today. L. Ron Hubbard himself is our best friend. What a whack job!!! Anybody who in this day and age that still believes Hubbards crap deserves every thing they pulled in.

The truth is at your fingertips. Google is your friend.
 

Petey C

Silver Meritorious Patron
Re: Second Hand Evidence

In my opinion, one has to be willing to be found out and not care. That's just my opinion. It takes a lot to leave so one better be strong in one's convictions. The very need of a leader is indicative of not having made the transition from cultie to sovereign being.

Excellent point. :thumbsup:

The secret is, though, that for the vast majority of people, the cult doesn't come after them.

It was a revelation to me to realize, after hearing many people's stories, that Scientology has no come-back if you stand up and resist, ie just start saying "NO" -- even if you're in the RPF. It'll hurt for a while when they try the push-back, but ultimately they can find nothing in their arsenal to counter a straightforward NO.
 
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