Marty says steer clear of Debbie Cook

Ogsonofgroo

Crusader
Oooooo-Ooooooo! Pick me!

The answer is....


1iov.jpg






did I winz?





:whistling:
 

Infinite

Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
Marty Rathbun quoting from a book he's read . . . "But when you pull the curtain back on Wingnut politics, behind the all-or-nothing demands, apocalyptic warnings and the addicition to self righteous anger, you’ll see that fear is the motivating factor: fear of the other; fear wrapped up in the American flag; fear calling itself freedom . . ."

What a superficial and prejudiced observation to take seriously. In their day, Martin Luther King, Samuel Adams, Mahatma Gandhi, Kate Sheppard, Martin Luther King Jnr, and a thousand others were all labelled "extremist" . . . were they "wingnut" cowards addicted to self-righteous anger or, rather, labelled as such by vested interests to "dead agent" the forwarding of human rights?

And how lacking is Marty's position in structural coherence. He lambastes Debbie Cook for (possibly and probably foolishly) seeking compromise while, on the other hand, pillorying his strawmen "extremists" to manufacture consent on some woolly notion of "the great middle path". And, good grief, what better manual for extremism than KSW?

The lack of intellectual fire power within the Indie Dependent movement would be laughable were it not for history's lessons in the carnage wrought by stupid yet determined people.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
...



Like his spiritual hero, Ron Hubbard, Marty Rathbun speaks to his own restless (indie) cult members in soothing tones and meter with reassuring words, much like a lullaby in order to put them back to sleep.

Cult members respond so well to hypnotic trigger-words that are straight out of the Scientology lexicon and easily fall back into the trance. Words like "critical" and "1.1" and "low toned". Thus, when Indie hypnotic subjects have been frightfully exposed to the non-conforming or agitating ideas of others (Debbie Cook, Ex-Scientologists, Critics, whistleblowers, et al) a few soft lullaby verses can be sung to lull them back to dreamland.

The cult leader/cult member symbiotic relationship is a ritual in itself, where both parties can exorcise troublesome demons and experience those wondrously fleeting moments of euphoria. In fact, the word lullaby has its origins is a surprisingly accurate descriptive of the entire upper Bridge. . .

In 1072, Turkish writer Mahmud al-Kashgari mentions old Turkish lullabies as 'balubalu' in his book Dīwānu l-Luġat al-Turk (Compendium of the languages of the Turks). It is also speculated the term may come from "Lilith-bye" or "Lilith-Abi" (Hebrew for "Lilith, begone"). In the Jewish tradition, Lilith was a demon who was believed to steal children's souls in the night. To guard against Lilith, Jewish people would hang four amulets on nursery walls with the inscription "Lilith – abi!" ["Lilith – begone"] which is a possible origin of the English word "lullaby".[2]


Quick Marty, your flock are having a bad dream and starting to wake up. . .

DEMON-BE-GONE LULLABY
(to the tune of Silent Night)

Restless Night, demon take flight!
Round Ron's scripture, BTs are wild.
Holy OT levels so tender and mild.
Sleep in Martyworld peace,
Sleep in Martyworld peace.​
 

LA SCN

NOT drinking the kool-aid
Re: Second Hand Evidence

...

Leaving has to be a very personal decision. It's nice to have people on the outside, to help when one leaves, but unless people are pretty firm on what they, themselves, have observed regardless of the observations of a Debbie Cook, Marty Rathbun, et al, and have decided no matter what that they will not contribute to that anymore, then they are susceptible to being yanked back in the fold.

In my opinion, one has to be willing to be found out and not care. That's just my opinion. It takes a lot to leave so one better be strong in one's convictions. The very need of a leader is indicative of not having made the transition from cultie to sovereign being.

^^^^^^^THAT !!!!!!!^^^^^^^
 
G

Gottabrain

Guest
Marty Rathbun quoting from a book he's read . . . "But when you pull the curtain back on Wingnut politics, behind the all-or-nothing demands, apocalyptic warnings and the addicition to self righteous anger, you’ll see that fear is the motivating factor: fear of the other; fear wrapped up in the American flag; fear calling itself freedom . . ."

What a superficial and prejudiced observation to take seriously.

The lack of intellectual fire power within the Indie Dependent movement would be laughable were it not for history's lessons in the carnage wrought by stupid yet determined people.

Marty is a puffer pigeon. Ever seen one? Every time he writes this pompous crap, I think of these scum eating birds puffing out and strutting about. It's just a pigeon; it still lives on garbage and shits on car windows, but when it puffs its feathers and chest out to look bigger, sometimes it attracts other pigeons that prefer illusion to reality:

flat,550x550,075,f.jpg
 

loose cannon

Patron with Honors
Well Still a supporter of Marty and Mike. Not agreeing with everything.

However in his recent post re Debbie cook," To Those who Fly Under the radar" he said

"Her only hope for survival is choosing truth over compromise, something quite confrontable and doable thanks to the sacrifices of Independent Scientologists over the past three years."

I pointed out that the FZ , and specifally Ken Ogger the " Pilot" had made similar posts and comments to both Debbie and himself 14 years
ago. Twice:-

" THE ORG'S GRADES ARE OUT
REFORM SCIENTOLOGY NOW
BY "THE PILOT"

This page is addressed to members of the Church of Scientology.

Scientology is a religion which seeks to improve the spiritual awareness and abilities of its members by means of auditing (pastoral counseling). This auditing is generally directed to specific areas known as "grades" such as grade zero which addresses communications or grade one which addresses problems. When these grades have not been handled and the person is having difficulties in these areas, the grades are said to be "out".

Anyone who has honestly studied the "tech" of Scientology auditing can see that the organization behaves like an individual who has his grades out, stopping communications, committing overt (harmful) acts and justifying them, and becoming embroiled in problems and upsets. They turn a blind eye because they don't want to criticize the organization or they justify this in some other manner. But it is time to confront the truth and do something about it before the organization sinks under the weight of its own aberrations.

For those of you who are not Scientologists, please follow the links at the end of this document to find other sites which contain more definitions and explanations.

Written July 1997, last updated 7/2/97."

His comments:-


------------------
martyrathbun09 | January 20, 2012 at 1:21 am | Reply

Criticalness has nothing to do with anything I am talking about. Tune in Pal.

---------------------

martyrathbun09 | January 21, 2012 at 3:35 am | Reply

terrill, try to have a communication cycle rather than a free association a=a=a. It makes it moderation burdensome when I have to police for off-the-wall gibberish that ignores a direct communication directed at you.
Nice missing Marty's withholds, Terril! And also putting an example of a man in front of his face who didn't compromise his own reality, although his research took his very life in the end. Somebody Marty will not-is as an important and beloved independent individual, who loved Scientology tech and dismissed its policy. Marty being somebody who is actively dishonest.

Now, really, why do you like this kind of people? People who speak much but don't say much (and you even compare one of them to Shakespeare!!!:duh:), or somebody who talk nicely but behave like a psycho???

p.s. Sorry for my phrasing. My English circuits seem to be really buggy today. I mean, they're always buggy, but today they're especially buggy.
 
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Free to shine

Shiny & Free
Marty is a puffer pigeon. Ever seen one? Every time he writes this pompous crap, I think of these scum eating birds puffing out and strutting about. It's just a pigeon; it still lives on garbage and shits on car windows, but when it puffs its feathers and chest out to look bigger, sometimes it attracts other pigeons that prefer illusion to reality:

flat,550x550,075,f.jpg

And he gets this sort of response: :puke2:

Franklin | January 21, 2012

It is becoming clearer everyday that Marty Rathbun has more courage than a thousand men. Debbie cook has apparently allowed herself to be dominated and nullified by a minor black PR attack by DM, even with all the LRH policies to defeat Miscavige at her disposal, like “How to Handle Black PR”. Almost every exec in the history of Scientology has been dominated by this dwarf SP, including Pat Broeker and all the execs in the hole. Marty is the only one that stands out in my mind as one who would not run and stood fast against heavy assault after assault. This may sound like I’m kissing up, but only after observing the ease in which other execs have folded has Marty won my admiration. Marty will be remembered in the history books. Keep fighting, Marty. You’re all we’ve got. So many other execs remain anonymous or under the radar, basically hiding, no confront, but you scream from the highest mountain, despite subjecting yourself to personal danger, and your voice is heard. We hear it loud and clear. If you were ever in “Treason”, you are now in “Power”.

martyrathbun09 | January 21, 2012

Don’t count Debbie out yet.



Sam | January 21, 2012 a

I won’t… but for her sake not ours.

Jim Logan | January 21, 2012

Sam,
For her sake, yes.

Pat | January 21, 2012 at 5:15 pm |

Don’t forget Mike Rinder when you’re thinking about people with extraordinary courage.


Ziba Feulner | January 21, 2012

Franklin: +100 Here some people I think of, off top of my hat that were borne with a full bag of courage and an extra set of balls: MLK, Mr. Rinder Nelson Mandela, Marty Rathban, Mahatma Gandhi, Mother Theresa, LRH, Steve Hall, Amy Scobee, St. Francis of Assisi
 

Smilla

Ordinary Human
Scientologists can get away with the most flagrantly abusive and stupid behaviour, if they justify it by repetition of their Catechism of Technical Piety:

1. Belief in the
infallibility or - near-infallability of Hubbard, or the fictional person, 'LRH.'
2. Belief in a Hubbard - devised 'Standard Tech.'
2. Belief in the thought-stopping dictat of KSW.

Some facts:

1. Hubbard was a liar of enormous proportions. Proved beyond any doubt.
2. Much of Dianetics and Scientology's practices are either plagiarised from other subjects, or developed by other individuals inside Scientology and presented as Hubbard's or the fictional person LRH's work. Proved beyond any doubt.
3. KSW outlaws any individual evidence-based thinking in relation to Scientology, now and forever. Proved beyond any doubt.


Advice to Scientologists: Apply evidence-based thinking.
 
G

Gottabrain

Guest
And he gets this sort of response: :puke2:

:roflmao: :dieslaughing: Franklin really goes off. That's some funny stuff! I thought Scientologists considered it suppressive to talk in generalities (?) :unsure:

These people must have no self-esteem of any kind to suck up to Marty like that. Ugh! Disgusting!
 
Scientologists can get away with the most flagrantly abusive and stupid behaviour, if they justify it by repetition of their Catechism of Technical Piety:

1. Belief in the
infallibility or - near-infallability of Hubbard, or the fictional person, 'LRH.'
2. Belief in a Hubbard - devised 'Standard Tech.'
2. Belief in the thought-stopping dictat of KSW.

Some facts:

1. Hubbard was a liar of enormous proportions. Proved beyond any doubt.
2. Much of Dianetics and Scientology's practices are either plagiarised from other subjects, or developed by other individuals inside Scientology and presented as Hubbard's or the fictional person LRH's work. Proved beyond any doubt.
3. KSW outlaws any individual evidence-based thinking in relation to Scientology, now and forever. Proved beyond any doubt.


Advice to Scientologists: Apply evidence-based thinking.

Nicely stated & good advice. :clap:


Mark A. Baker
 

Sindy

Crusader
Franklin | January 21, 2012

It is becoming clearer everyday that Marty Rathbun has more courage than a thousand men. Debbie cook has apparently allowed herself to be dominated and nullified by a minor black PR attack by DM, even with all the LRH policies to defeat Miscavige at her disposal, like “How to Handle Black PR”. Almost every exec in the history of Scientology has been dominated by this dwarf SP, including Pat Broeker and all the execs in the hole. Marty is the only one that stands out in my mind as one who would not run and stood fast against heavy assault after assault. This may sound like I’m kissing up, but only after observing the ease in which other execs have folded has Marty won my admiration. Marty will be remembered in the history books. Keep fighting, Marty. You’re all we’ve got. So many other execs remain anonymous or under the radar, basically hiding, no confront, but you scream from the highest mountain, despite subjecting yourself to personal danger, and your voice is heard. We hear it loud and clear. If you were ever in “Treason”, you are now in “Power”.

martyrathbun09 | January 21, 2012

Don’t count Debbie out yet.


Sam | January 21, 2012 a

I won’t… but for her sake not ours.

Jim Logan | January 21, 2012

Sam,
For her sake, yes.

Pat | January 21, 2012 at 5:15 pm |

Don’t forget Mike Rinder when you’re thinking about people with extraordinary courage.


Ziba Feulner | January 21, 2012

Franklin: +100 Here some people I think of, off top of my hat that were borne with a full bag of courage and an extra set of balls: MLK, Mr. Rinder Nelson Mandela, Marty Rathban, Mahatma Gandhi, Mother Theresa, LRH, Steve Hall, Amy Scobee, St. Francis of Assisi

^^^ An example of continued cult-like thinking.

IMO, Marty treats people in the way I have shown in the bolded areas. Anyone who likes or is willing to continue to be treated that way is still in a cult as far as I am concerned. (This is why I no longer post on his blog.)

From The Cult Test:

49. The guru or the group demands ultra-loyalty and total committment.

You can't just be a member of the group — your loyalty to the group must be total. You must obey orders without question. You must devote the rest of your life to the cult. They say that you must be willing to go to any length and make any sacrifice to achieve the group's goals. You must be willing to give the group everything you have, and to work for the group tirelessly, for free.

They call members who are not obsessed with the cult, and who try to live balanced lives with outside interests, "weak hands", "wimps" and "fair-weather friends". And they say the same thing about members who are not as extreme and radical as they are. Here is where the hard-core true believers love to repeat slogans like "If you aren't part of the solution, then you are part of the problem", and "Those who aren't with us are against us".

The Oxford Group accused anyone who wasn't totally dedicated to all of the practices of the cult — especially, to following the dictates of the cult's leaders — "not maximum".

And of course the group exhibits extreme possessiveness — they don't want to ever let you leave. In their opinion, you must stay committed to the group forever.


50. Demands for Total Faith and Total Trust

The guru demands that you have complete and total faith in him, and believe his statements without question. The cult also demands complete agreement with the leaders, and suppresses any dissent.
 

Petey C

Silver Meritorious Patron
^^^ An example of continued cult-like thinking.

IMO, Marty treats people in the way I have shown in the bolded areas. Anyone who likes or is willing to continue to be treated that way is still in a cult as far as I am concerned. (This is why I no longer post on his blog.)

From The Cult Test:

49. The guru or the group demands ultra-loyalty and total committment.

You can't just be a member of the group — your loyalty to the group must be total. You must obey orders without question. You must devote the rest of your life to the cult. They say that you must be willing to go to any length and make any sacrifice to achieve the group's goals. You must be willing to give the group everything you have, and to work for the group tirelessly, for free.

They call members who are not obsessed with the cult, and who try to live balanced lives with outside interests, "weak hands", "wimps" and "fair-weather friends". And they say the same thing about members who are not as extreme and radical as they are. Here is where the hard-core true believers love to repeat slogans like "If you aren't part of the solution, then you are part of the problem", and "Those who aren't with us are against us".

The Oxford Group accused anyone who wasn't totally dedicated to all of the practices of the cult — especially, to following the dictates of the cult's leaders — "not maximum".

And of course the group exhibits extreme possessiveness — they don't want to ever let you leave. In their opinion, you must stay committed to the group forever.


50. Demands for Total Faith and Total Trust

The guru demands that you have complete and total faith in him, and believe his statements without question. The cult also demands complete agreement with the leaders, and suppresses any dissent.

Sigh. This gives a whole new meaning to "second generation cult member" ...
 

Lurker5

Gold Meritorious Patron
So it's the truth. But shaded. (As in not really truth?). Being HIS truth. (As in lies?)
He wrote it FOR scnos. not non-scnos or exes. ( As in lies? or half truths?)



He knows what he is doing, but Debbie doesn't. Debbie = dumb. Marty = intelligent.
Debbie = loser. Marty = winner.



Oh yeah, it's a warning alright. How many here have been warned by scientologists (Reges, recruiters, ethics officers, etc,) what would happen if they did "x", (what they wanted do) rather than what the scientologist wanted them to do.
BTW has Debbie succumbed to osa/co$/dm tactics and pressures? Maybe Marty proved that somewhere. I haven't seen it.




Yes, strength in numbers...for Marty. Yes, 'safe habor'...for Marty. Remember, if he cannot maintain a unified front with him in the lead, god knows what Marty crimes may be exposed as scientology falls apart and there is no particular allegiance to him.



Just like I am now trying to "annihilate (your) belief system" about Marty.?:)
I don't expect to have any success at it. :)




Yeah, it's the most honest I've ever read too, which, relatively speaking, on the point of honesty, puts it exactly nowhere in particular. Your point about "...Even he is getting there..." Has been expressed in the past by some posters. To me it always looks like a case of projection. Seeing one's own impulse to be better, more honest, and projecting it on someone who is a liar and a manipulator and has never shown (as far as I can see) that he is really headed in the same direction, or has the same intentions and aspirations as those who project their own struggles/journey onto Marty. Just my opinion.





Strange logic. ".... If Marty doesn't prove himself to me another dm, I am giving him the benefit of the doubt....." He cannot be a dm because there is already a dm and if he wants to be a dm you may have to wait forever. Why not look at Marty's past and Marty's present and Marty's words about what kind of world he wants around him. "...Just wants to be a scno..." Exactly. A pure Hubbardarian Scientologist.

Obviously, if I took the time to write this response I was trying to be convincing. But I expect to complelety fail in that.

Not really a 'fail'. I have read every disparaging comment without taking it personally, and with some thought. Yeah, you probably will not change my mind, but so what. At least I am listening . . . Contemplating.

I vacilate between thinking M is a piece of shit bent on taking over, and/or just a dude, once powerful, who got his lunch shoved down his throat by the ungrateful bastard he served so well. I have not heard him express remorse in public, but have heard a few say he has apologized privately to some he of thsoe he harmed. He has a long long long way to go. How many years does it take, for one so seeped in co$ crimes, to come to terms with his own culpability, and speak of it, in public - in a book? I am still waiting. How long does it take to shed all the co$/scno skin - if ever????

And I usually see him take one step forward and 2 back. :sadsigh: But yeah, it might be MY projections onto him, making him like me, me relating to him and making an error. Could be. But it could also be, because I was never really 'in', that I was not burned by him, that I do not know the full extent of his 'crimes', that I do not 'get it". So I listen - and think on it.

But I am who I am. Even a sociopath starts out on a level playing ground with me, at least until I get it - a sociopath is near me, in my circle. And he might be . . . I will deal with that, when I KNOW.

But until I see it, for myself, I cannot label him that. Sorry, just can't go there, just like I could not do that in scno - and left rather than participate in group think. And I am not saying those here who disagree with me are group*thinking. Not at all. I assume most of you have more personal experience with co$/scno and M than me. That has weight with me. I am just saying that until I experience it for myself, or see it for myself, his evil ways, I must give him the benefit of my doubts. And I have a ton of them. And I never forget Lisa McPherson. There are lots of stories about M, lots and lots. My personal experience is almost nil. But I am watching . . .

There are many here who did evil things in co$, participated in the group think. It is a very hard thing to come to terms with, and to 'own', admit, take responsibility for - and some never get to that place. Marty might be one of those. Does that make him evil, a sociopath? Or just it just make him a coward?

:eyeroll:

Thanks for your comments, all of them. REALLY ! :yes:
 
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Vittorio

Patron Meritorious
Well Still a supporter of Marty and Mike. Not agreeing with everything.

However in his recent post re Debbie cook," To Those who Fly Under the radar" he said

"Her only hope for survival is choosing truth over compromise, something quite confrontable and doable thanks to the sacrifices of Independent Scientologists over the past three years."

I pointed out that the FZ , and specifally Ken Ogger the " Pilot" had made similar posts and comments to both Debbie and himself 14 years
ago. Twice:-

" THE ORG'S GRADES ARE OUT
REFORM SCIENTOLOGY NOW
BY "THE PILOT"

This page is addressed to members of the Church of Scientology.

Scientology is a religion which seeks to improve the spiritual awareness and abilities of its members by means of auditing (pastoral counseling). This auditing is generally directed to specific areas known as "grades" such as grade zero which addresses communications or grade one which addresses problems. When these grades have not been handled and the person is having difficulties in these areas, the grades are said to be "out".

Anyone who has honestly studied the "tech" of Scientology auditing can see that the organization behaves like an individual who has his grades out, stopping communications, committing overt (harmful) acts and justifying them, and becoming embroiled in problems and upsets. They turn a blind eye because they don't want to criticize the organization or they justify this in some other manner. But it is time to confront the truth and do something about it before the organization sinks under the weight of its own aberrations.

For those of you who are not Scientologists, please follow the links at the end of this document to find other sites which contain more definitions and explanations.

Written July 1997, last updated 7/2/97."

His comments:-


------------------
martyrathbun09 | January 20, 2012 at 1:21 am | Reply

Criticalness has nothing to do with anything I am talking about. Tune in Pal.

---------------------

martyrathbun09 | January 21, 2012 at 3:35 am | Reply

terrill, try to have a communication cycle rather than a free association a=a=a. It makes it moderation burdensome when I have to police for off-the-wall gibberish that ignores a direct communication directed at you.

Terril, you say I attack you, but look at how Rathbun talks to you! And you support him despite all his crimes. Marty is not and never will reform anything.
 
Not really a 'fail'. I have read every disparaging comment without taking it personally, and with some thought. Yeah, you probably will not change my mind, but so what. At least I am listening . . . Contemplating.

I vacilate between thinking M is a piece of shit bent on taking over. And I usually see him take one step forward and 2 back. But yeah, it might be MY projections onto him, making him like me, me relating to him and making an error. Could be. But it could also be, because I was never really 'in', that I was not burned by him, that I do not know the full extent of his 'crimes', that I do not 'get it". So I listen - and think on it.

but I am who I am. Even a sociopath starts out on a level playing ground with me, at least until I get it - a sociopath. And he might be . . .

But until I see it, for myself, I cannot label him that. Sorry, jsut can't go there, just like I could not do that in scno - and left. (Just a little dig there, hoping some of those who have attacked me will think on it too . . .).

:eyeroll:

Ok. About your comment about "Even a sociopath starts out....." and your comment that "Unitil I see it for myself, I cannot label him that".
Well, the label is of secondary importance to what it represents. If someone wants to perptuate L Ron Hubbards system of control and management of people, in a pure form then how you see that depends on what you think of Hubbard.
I think hubbard was evil and manifested it in the way he developed his cult and Marty wants to perpetuate hubbards dogma.

You also have the benefit of reading what Marty writes. You have the benefit of reading about his history in the cult and how he has dealt with that, and his victims, compared to similar people, who have left. You have the benefit of seeing how he deals with all people who comment on his blog. He is free to run it as he wishes, of course, but his character is not something of great mystery. I think you commented that his recent post looked very honest compared to his usual writings.
Fair enough, but I read it as far from honesty as any of Marty's writings.

Your comment about "Everyone starts out on a level playing field with me". I think this is my attitude too, to people in general. But Marty isn't just starting out. He's been going a while and Marty's own playing field is hardly level. Have you noticed that?
 

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
And he gets this sort of response: :puke2:

these two items just baked the cake for me

Pat | January 21, 2012 at 5:15 pm |

Don’t forget Mike Rinder when you’re thinking about people with extraordinary courage.


Ziba Feulner | January 21, 2012

Franklin: +100 Here some people I think of, off top of my hat that were borne with a full bag of courage and an extra set of balls: MLK, Mr. Rinder Nelson Mandela, Marty Rathban, Mahatma Gandhi, Mother Theresa, LRH, Steve Hall, Amy Scobee, St. Francis of Assisi

Never thought i would see any dumb enough to put the words "courage" and "mike rinder" in the same sentence.

And as fro St Francis 'Rathban'... well that is just profoundly embarrassing.

Man I still cannot get past the simple fact that I was in the same cult as these idiots.
 

Vittorio

Patron Meritorious
these two items just baked the cake for me



Never thought i would see any dumb enough to put the words "courage" and "mike rinder" in the same sentence.

And as fro St Francis 'Rathban'... well that is just profoundly embarrassing.

Man I still cannot get past the simple fact that I was in the same cult as these idiots.

It leaves me stunned, some of the stuff that gets posted over there.
 
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