Marty says steer clear of Debbie Cook

Ladybird

Silver Meritorious Patron
Marty has been positioning himself as a "Reformer" of the church in the tradition of Martin Luther, Martin Luther King, Ghandhi and others for years:

http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2010/02/17/

http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2010/02/17/

Apparently L. Ron Hubbard PR tech does work according to Ziba who puts scientologists right up there with some of the true heroes of our time. Personally, I bet Marty stuck it in there under a psuedonym/sock because I can't imagine anyone dumb enough to actually believe this! In fact I imagine some of the Sea Org exes in this "Ziba" post are cringing to be mentioned this way. Marty was all praise for Debbie Cook too until he found out he couldn't use her.

Ziba Feulner | January 21, 2012

Franklin: +100 Here some people I think of, off top of my hat that were borne with a full bag of courage and an extra set of balls: MLK, Mr. Rinder Nelson Mandela, Marty Rathban, Mahatma Gandhi, Mother Theresa, LRH, Steve Hall, Amy Scobee, St. Francis of Assisi

I read Marty's site and the comments sometimes...and I can see every step of L. Ron Hubbard's PR and Positioning "tech" there. Just subsitute "Marty and the Indies" for "scientology" and change "Attacker/criminals" to David Miscavige or anybody who doesn't kiss Martys ass.



Below is one of the many L. Ron Hubbard PR policies that Marty is using on his board.

:
HUBBARD COMMUNICATIONS OFFICE
Saint Hill Manor, East Grinstead, Sussex

HCO POLICY LETTER OF 25 FEBRUARY 1966

HCO Div
LRH Comm

ATTACKS ON SCIENTOLOGY
(Additional Pol Ltr)

Remimeo
Exec Sec Hats
HCO Sec Hat
Legal Officer Hat
LRH Comm Hat
Dist Sec Hat
Press Hat
Sect 5 Dept 3

Anyone proposing an investigation of or an "Enquiry" into Scientology must receive this reply and no other proposal:

"We welcome an investigation into (Mental Healing or whoever is attacking us) as we have begun one ourselves and find shocking evidence."

You can elaborate on the evidence we have found and lay it on thick attacking the attackers only.

NEVER agree to an investigation of Scientology. ONLY agree to an investigation of the attackers.

This was the BIG error made in Victoria. I okayed an Enquiry into all mental healing. I ordered evidence on psychiatric murders to be collected. Non-Compliance with these orders brought on the loss of Melbourne and the law in Victoria against Scientology. This was the non-compliance that began it. The original order I gave was relayed as "we welcome an Enquiry into Scientology...." or it was changed to that in Melbourne.

This is correct procedure:

(1) Spot who is attacking us.

(2) Start investigating them promptly for FELONIES or worse using our own professionals, not outside agencies.

(3) Double curve our reply by saying we welcome an investigation of them.

(4) Start feeding lurid, blood,sex,crime actual evidence on the attackers to the press.

Don't ever tamely submit to an investigation of us. Make it rough, rough on attackers all the way.

You can get "reasonable about it" and lose. Sure we break no laws. Sure we have nothing to hide. BUT attackers are simply an anti-Scientology propaganda agency so far as we are concerned. They have proven they want no facts and will only lie no matter what they discover. So BANISH all ideas that any fair hearing is intended and start our attack with their first breath. Never wait. Never talk about us - only them. Use their blood, sex, crime to get headlines. Don't use us.

I speak from 15 years of experience in this. There has never yet been an attacker who was not reeking with crime. All we had to do was look for it and murder would come out.

They fear our Meter. They fear freedom. They fear the way we are growing. Why?

Because they have too much to hide.

When you use that rationale you win. When you go dishwater and say "We honest chickens just plain love to have you in the coop, Brer Fox," we get clobbered. The right response is "We militant public defenders of the freedom of the people want that there Fox investigated for eating living chickens!" Shift the spotlight to them. No matter how. Do it!

You can elaborate on the formula. Let's say some other branch of government wants to investigate us via the press. Just apply the formula:

-2-

"We welcome a public enquiry into (that branch activity) as we already have begun to investigate their (----)." It will always work. It even would have worked on the U.S. F.D.A. when they first began five years before their raid on D.C. They run! And that's all we want.

HOW TO STOP ATTACKS

The way we will eventually stop all attacks from there on out is by processing the society as follows:

(1) Locate a source of attack on us.

(2) Investigate it.

(3) Expose it with wide lurid publicity.

You see the same thing in a preclear. He has a rotten spot in his behaviour. He attacks the practitioner. The spot is located on a meter, It blows and the preclear relaxes.

Well this is just what is happening in the society. We are a practitioner to the society. It has rotten spots in it. Those show up in attacks on us. We investigate and expose - the attack ceases.

We use investigators instead of E-Meters. We use newspapers instead of auditor reports. But it's the same problem exactly.

So long as we neglect our role as auditor-to-the-society we will be attacked.

Society is pretty crazy. It's a raw jungle. So it will take a lot of work. We must be willing to put in that work as a group or we'll be knocked about.

Remember, CHURCHES ARE LOOKED UPON AS REFORM GROUPS.

Therefore we must act like a reform group.

The way to seize the initiative is to use our own professionals to investigate intensively parts of the society that may attack us. Get an ammunition locker full. Be sure of our facts. And then expose via the press.

If we do this right, press, instead of trying to invent reasons to attack us will start hanging around waiting for our next lurid scoop.

We must convert from an attacked group to a reform group that attacks rotten spots in the society. We should not limit ourselves to mental healing or our own line. We should look for zones to investigate and blow the lid off and become known as a mighty reform group. We object to slavery, oppression, torture, murder, perversion, crime, political sin and anything that makes Man unfree.

The only error we can make is disperse our investigation. We do a preliminary look, then we must select a target and investigate it until we have the cold facts and then BANG, fire the salvo.

Don't worry about libel if our facts indicate rottenness. The last thing that target will do is sue as then we would have a chance to prove it in court, which they are terrified of our doing.

Remember - the only reason we are in trouble with the press or governments is that we are not searching out and exposing rotten spots in the society. We must practice on the whole group called society. If we do not it will attack us just as a preclear will attack a Scientologist that won't audit him.

To get wholly over to cause we must select targets, investigate and expose before they attack us.

We have at this writing a long way to go. But we might as well

-3-

start somewhere. Begin by investigating any attacking group, find and expose the dead bodies. Then work on to our selecting the targets.

And that will handle it all.

L. RON HUBBARD

Most of the posters on Marty's board fit the definition of "sychophant". Any that don't I would just about bet Marty used as a foil to post the reasons why they were wrong. I don't think anyone posts anything there unless Marty likes it or can use it to make a point. In fact, the tone of most of the replys is so similar I wouldn't be surprised if Marty edited them or wrote them himself, but maybe that tone comes from being in the cult for so long and writing so many success stories. Success stories all sound alike too.
 

Veda

Sponsor
David Miscavige is universally unpopular, and riding the wave of that (well deserved) unpopularity is a guaranteed path into the minds of those Marty&Friends are seeking to persuade.

But persuade to what?

Marty Rathbun&Friends have, as part of their "mission," the rehabilitation of the image and reputation of Scientology and L. Ron Hubbard.

From Marty's Rathbun blog:

"With all the chatter about L. Ron Hubbard's alleged shortcomings, it got me thinking about what the effect of the unprecedented ad hominem attacks against the man were. Hubbard was demonized by the cold war establishment perhaps more than any other civilian figure. One cumulative effect of it all was to one degree or another de-humanize him in the public eye. We see remnants of those effects to this day. Tony Ortega has even come to the conclusion that my mission - and the mission of many independents - is made hopeless by this historical landscape. The landscape is not easy to conceptualize given its long lived nature and Miscavige's daily efforts to make the myths a reality. Providing context to the entire picture is a long term project that I never lose sight of, but unfortunately I have not found the time to devote to it that it deserves..."

And,

"Miscavige has run a continuous propaganda campaign attempting to besmirch the good name of L. Ron Hubbard. He has continually given little interest or funds for defending public relations attacks on L. Ron Hubbard."

The outside the CoS Scientologists have finally found an effective "button" to "push," with which to apply the following "LRH datum." That button is the "Church" of Scientology as run by David Miscavige, with Miscavige regarded as an "anti-Scientologist":

"The objective is to be identified as attackers of popularly considered evils [Miscavige, and Miscavology, i.e. perverted or 'Reverse Scientology']. This declassifies us from former labels..."

Confidential 'Black Propaganda' 12 January 1972


Below is a reminder of the Independent Scientology "reality" circa 2011:

"...there are OSA operatives throughout the Anonymous network, ESMB site, the Freezone and Independents running backstabbing, covert propaganda campaigns while we are 'tied up' under siege. Just look for the 1.1s using the safe Independent Scientology space we are creating to promote such practices as no-training-needed to get onto OT levels, 'OT I and OT II are of little importance': especially coming from 'Class VIIIs', 'Class VIs' and folks claiming to be 'trained by Ron.' They may as well be saying 'Scientology is a fraud, because after all I studied it all, and violently disagree with the Bridge created by Ron.'...

"...Cleaning up the image and damage that Miscavige has created for Scientology is not very difficult absent his gargantuan efforts to disrupt such work..."
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
How can he reform CofS when he's not in it? I would not be one whit surprised if he did want to go in there, have a coup, oust DM and take over. But til that happens- and til he ADMITS that this is what he wants- all he is doing is attempting to reform and offer non CofS Scn services.

And, no, I'm not a Martyite. I just think he has objectives that he does not state.

Martin Luther was a Catholic when he nailed his theses to the door though he did get excommunicated afterward. And, thus, was Lutheranism born. So instead of a reformed Roman Catholic Church, a subsequently large, powerful and significant Protestant faction was born.

The timelines of the two men aren't analogous. But both are ornery and both named Martin.

Again, I'm no Martyite.
 
Regarding this:

"And he gets this sort of response:
these two items just baked the cake for me

Pat | January 21, 2012 at 5:15 pm |

Don’t forget Mike Rinder when you’re thinking about people with extraordinary courage.

Ziba Feulner | January 21, 2012

Franklin: +100 Here some people I think of, off top of my hat that were borne with a full bag of courage and an extra set of balls: MLK, Mr. Rinder Nelson Mandela, Marty Rathban, Mahatma Gandhi, Mother Theresa, LRH, Steve Hall, Amy Scobee, St. Francis of Assisi
Never thought i would see any dumb enough to put the words "courage" and "mike rinder" in the same sentence.

And as for St Francis 'Rathban'... well that is just profoundly embarrassing.

Man I still cannot get past the simple fact that I was in the same cult as these idiots."

Great post, Mick~

I don't mean to be offensive to anyone, :unsure: but to me, it's as if Heinrich Himmler and Hermann Goering had somehow escaped by the skin of their teeth in the last days of WWII and then somehow, after de-stimulating and laying low for a handful of years, regrouped to South America and started up Nazi Party lite, complete with new wives and families, fans and followers.

I guess that sounds pretty harsh, but it seems clear to me that Ratty and Rindy seem to be calling for and "authorizing" her shunning by "their" group of friends and followers, which tells me that they are not playing a good game, not one that I want any part of, and that they have not reformed or recovered much from their Cult experience, but seem instead to want to replicate it and continue it in some way out in the real world. :no: Sad.

I would think (if they were authentic in wanting the Cult to end it's abuses and reform) they would be shouting "Brava!" to Debbie at the tops of their lungs for her action and encouraging everyone everywhere, both in and out of Corporate COS to support Debbie and embrace the changes and reforms she is wanting to enact on the group.

I personally think that the whole wide world should "friend" Debbie or send her some friendly, supportive comm, just for her brave attempt to get people to see the truth about their "group" and a call to action for reform from within. But if she is really effective in causing needed reforms in COS, (from my lips to God's ears!) that undercuts their game of re-forming "Independent" Scientology from the outside, yeah, they're real humanitarians, aren't they?

They're not even intelligent, or acting in their own best interests by not supporting her actions, because the most likely outcome is that folks "still in" will look around them and agree, and will want to leave Corporate Scientology and some, if not many, will want to get services outside the church, making them ripe for plucking as new customers for Mike and Marty's Nazi Lite Party....excuse me, Independent Scientology.

Her actions may really have started the revolution from within Corporate Scientology. Inshallah! :thumbsup:

Exes, strike a blow for Justice and ask for ALL of your money back from COS, NOW! :happydance:
 
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anonomog

Gold Meritorious Patron
It leaves me stunned, some of the stuff that gets posted over there.

Indeed.
It is a fascinating study in how a cult is born (or re-born), right there, step by step.

I can't get over the fact that I share much of my DNA with these blithering idiots. Wasn't one cult enough for them? Maybe they are not quite sure they were completely screwed the first time, so they are going to follow the exact same formula again to make sure? Oh yes, it is with a new improved narcissist leader this time.

If I can convince myself that they are indeed Homo Novis, it may comfort me a little. Thanks Ron.
 
David Miscavige is universally unpopular, and riding the wave of that (well deserved) unpopularity is a guaranteed path into the minds of those Marty&Friends are seeking to persuade.

But persuade to what?

Marty Rathbun&Friends have, as part of their "mission," the rehabilitation of the image and reputation of Scientology and L. Ron Hubbard.

From Marty's Rathbun blog:

"With all the chatter about L. Ron Hubbard's alleged shortcomings, it got me thinking about what the effect of the unprecedented ad hominem attacks against the man were. Hubbard was demonized by the cold war establishment perhaps more than any other civilian figure. One cumulative effect of it all was to one degree or another de-humanize him in the public eye. We see remnants of those effects to this day. Tony Ortega has even come to the conclusion that my mission - and the mission of many independents - is made hopeless by this historical landscape. The landscape is not easy to conceptualize given its long lived nature and Miscavige's daily efforts to make the myths a reality. Providing context to the entire picture is a long term project that I never lose sight of, but unfortunately I have not found the time to devote to it that it deserves..."

And,

"Miscavige has run a continuous propaganda campaign attempting to besmirch the good name of L. Ron Hubbard. He has continually given little interest or funds for defending public relations attacks on L. Ron Hubbard."

The outside the CoS Scientologists have finally found an effective "button" to "push," with which to apply the following "LRH datum." That button is the "Church" of Scientology as run by David Miscavige, with Miscavige regarded as an "anti-Scientologist":

"The objective is to be identified as attackers of popularly considered evils [Miscavige, and Miscavology, i.e. perverted or 'Reverse Scientology']. This declassifies us from former labels..."

Confidential 'Black Propaganda' 12 January 1972


Below is a reminder of the Independent Scientology "reality" circa 2011:

"...there are OSA operatives throughout the Anonymous network, ESMB site, the Freezone and Independents running backstabbing, covert propaganda campaigns while we are 'tied up' under siege. Just look for the 1.1s using the safe Independent Scientology space we are creating to promote such practices as no-training-needed to get onto OT levels, 'OT I and OT II are of little importance': especially coming from 'Class VIIIs', 'Class VIs' and folks claiming to be 'trained by Ron.' They may as well be saying 'Scientology is a fraud, because after all I studied it all, and violently disagree with the Bridge created by Ron.'...

"...Cleaning up the image and damage that Miscavige has created for Scientology is not very difficult absent his gargantuan efforts to disrupt such work..."

It needs saying repeatedly, because this truth protects people:

"SCIENTOLOGY IS A FRAUD!"

THE SO-CALLED "CHURCH" OF SCIENTOLOGY IS A HARMFUL, DESTRUCTIVE CULT!

And while we're at it, there have been "Independent" Scientologists practicing for over 50 years now. See the comments here: http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?16704-David-Mayo-Legal-Defense-Fund-Dinner.

Marty didn't coin anything or invent anything that hasn't already been in use long term, in spite of his saying that the Independent movement only began three years ago... He just chooses to frame ALL those other "Independents" as Squirrel, or "Critical" or other than his group. Only his group has it right. :ohmy: That there folks is cultish thinking in a nutshell. :duh: That he doesn't see himself how inane this is, is really sad. :no:

381340_209767102451651_101862729908756_439952_249346664_n.jpg
 
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afaceinthecrowd

Gold Meritorious Patron
Indeed.
It is a fascinating study in how a cult is born (or re-born), right there, step by step.

I can't get over the fact that I share much of my DNA with these blithering idiots. Wasn't one cult enough for them? Maybe they are not quite sure they were completely screwed the first time, so they are going to follow the exact same formula again to make sure? Oh yes, it is with a new improved narcissist leader this time.

If I can convince myself that they are indeed Homo Novis, it may comfort me a little. Thanks Ron.


I don't think it's all that much "DNA" for you and most all y'all here, anonomog...but there sure enough was, at least in my case, a lot of "Bodily Fluids" shared. :melodramatic: :puke2:

Face :)
 
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Free to shine

Shiny & Free
Now Marty is regging funds for Debbie Cook? Let me get my checkbook! Send it where? To Marty? And he isn't even in contact with Debbie and doesn't know if she will accept his "help"?

This is just too much like the cult, regging for defense funds and creating a war chest. Who could have seen this coming! :confused2: :eyeroll:

http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2012/01/23/debbie-cook-defense-fund/

It's unbelievable that he could warn people to steer clear of her one day and start a fundraiser a few days later. Anyone who doesn't hear an alarm bell is deaf.
 
How can he reform CofS when he's not in it? I would not be one whit surprised if he did want to go in there, have a coup, oust DM and take over. But til that happens- and til he ADMITS that this is what he wants- all he is doing is attempting to reform and offer non CofS Scn services.

And, no, I'm not a Martyite. I just think he has objectives that he does not state.

Martin Luther was a Catholic when he nailed his theses to the door though he did get excommunicated afterward. And, thus, was Lutheranism born. So instead of a reformed Roman Catholic Church, a subsequently large, powerful and significant Protestant faction was born.

The timelines of the two men aren't analogous. But both are ornery and both named Martin.

Again, I'm no Martyite.

My bold: You are claiming that until he ADMITS that he wants to reform the cos (from the inside) then he is not attempting to do it.?

I hope you're the judge if I ever have to go to court.
:)
 

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation
It's unbelievable that he could warn people to steer clear of her one day and start a fundraiser a few days later. Anyone who doesn't hear an alarm bell is deaf.




Only if they are buying the Marty PR BS.

:coolwink:

I vill say this vonce and vonce only (cos I've already said it quite a lot).

They are working together.




:yes:
 

Thrak

Gold Meritorious Patron
When is Marty gonna post a "Steer clear of Marty" thread? Or wait a minute he just did.
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
My bold: You are claiming that until he ADMITS that he wants to reform the cos (from the inside) then he is not attempting to do it.?

I hope you're the judge if I ever have to go to court.
:)

Nope, that's not what I said. He hasn't admitted it. I just think that's what he wants to do. I believe, personally, that he wants to take over. I also know that he talks a lot about how they do everything wrong there, with the implication that he knows what's right.

And if you go to court and I'm the judge, I'd have to recuse myself. I do not care to judge friends and other people of whom I'm fond. :)
 
My bold: You are claiming that until he ADMITS that he wants to reform the cos (from the inside) then he is not attempting to do it.?

I hope you're the judge if I ever have to go to court.
:)

No, that is not what she has said. What she has said is that until MR ADMITS that as his purpose SHE will not say IT IS. It's really an important lesson in practical humility as opposed to the imaginary variety that is so popular.

Don't assume that what you may BELIEVE is in fact NECESSARILY TRUE.


Mark A. Baker
 
No, that is not what she has said. What she has said is that until MR ADMITS that as his purpose SHE will not say IT IS. It's really an important lesson in practical humility as opposed to the imaginary variety that is so popular.

Don't assume that what you may BELIEVE is in fact NECESSARILY TRUE.


Mark A. Baker

Are you assuming things with the red comment/direction/command?
 
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