Marty: Scientology and Sociopathy

[Gadfly]

All right, I have to get back to work bleeding people dry and generally kissing my own adorable ass so, I'll get back to all of you when it's best for me and my exalted perfection.

And you call me self-congratulatory?

 

[TG1]

It seems to me that the real thing going on here, is still some sort of veil, still functioning, that doesn't permit those 'in', those 'sort-of in', and those totally 'out', from having any great way to say anything that can lead towards what we all thought was the 'best way'. Turned out it wasn't, but I can't help but see the lingering little tidbits keep playing, and that keep things on the defensive with this.

What someone did 'when in', should be plain to see for most -was in totally different circumstances as opposed to 'when out'. Yet I realize too, the necessary vindication that we all need, to get past the nightmare and get on with it.

This is where the Scions win: to create so much confusion, that nothing good can happen otherwise. Whether in or out - or just always wog. And it lingers for those out. Another thing I have seen take place way too often, and may have nothing to do with Scn: is the internet seems to be the best forum to just 'shoot the shit' and 'rip anyone apart...whether you really know them, think you do, or really not. That's so juvenile really - and whether you know their name or not. Go kick your cat, sure it's the 'wrong target', but better that than still having no idea who your target is!

My take is that there's something really fishy, smelly about humans that tend to make us soap-opera addicts. I've been sucked into it before for sure, and over much stupider things. Human 'nature' as they say, but I've learned that the engagement is not worth it, especially here - unless your goal is trying to perfect your internet etiquette. Good luck with that!

There's been just such an unfathomable amount of BS created by the bastard LRH, that it's gonna play on for way too long. My analogy would be slavery here...still playing out sociological disaster here in US of A- and racism in general. Media tries to hide it, saying it's " so much better" - but it's obviously not. A-duh.

Anything that tries to create a dichotomy (remember all that?), just creates opposing sides. (Not saying they don't or shouldn't exist). Sad thing is just the 'idea of', very successfully creates opposition, when you know damn well, it would not exists otherwise! ...you'd probably be friends if you crossed paths in the real world, and apart from any reason (or training) to 'suspect' the other.

Religion, in whatever flavor, just seems to LOVE this idea. It also appears to have successfully created more bloodshed in human history than anything else. I won't excuse 'politics' here either, it's just that it seems to have resulted from religion, ideologies, bal, bla.

Ok, 'nuff said. I've been refraining here for some time - just had to chime in, and I guess will piss some folks off. I'm not meaning to - but you're free to be as angry about whatever you want, use your words to flame whoever you want, yet I'm guessing really, when you go to bed at night: you'd be first to admit that it's better to have friends than enemies (or enema's for that matter).

There's no need to try and piss someone off here! We all have a most excellent reason to be already.

But mostly: let's let those who are out, to whatever degree: BE OUT...and not go digging up the shit that we have been battling all along now for a long time.

(sorry to be WAY too simplistic and dumb here) but to me: it's the exact opposite of 'that other thing', and probably a good way to fight it.

Lovies
TL

Somebody put a STICKY on this! I love this post. Great advice, Techless.

TG1

 

[NoName]

Somebody put a STICKY on this! I love this post. Great advice, Techless.

TG1

I second that! You hit the nail on the head. And Scn is structured to bring out the worst about this in all of us - schadenfreude, paranoia, voyeurism, etc.

 

[Lermanet_com]

I second that! You hit the nail on the head. And Scn is structured to bring out the worst about this in all of us - schadenfreude, paranoia, voyeurism, etc.

I met with a person whom I felt knew more than I did. I mentioned how great Joost Meerloo's "RAPE OF THE MIND" was for recovering from $cientology. (note) This person got excited, and whipped out their copy of "THE RAPE OF MIND" - and it was filled with post it notes. Each sticky tab was under a passage from RAPE OF THE MIND, and cited the Hubbard policy where Hubbard implimented it, where he used it upon us.

Survivors of $cientology, are true life Survivors. I mentioned this to Nancy Many just the other day, how we were the lucky ones.. We are still alive! She quipped back

"Indeed, How lucky we are to have survived $cientology!

Arnie Lerma

Note: THE RAPE OF THE MIND: The Psychology of Thought Control, Menticide, and Brainwashing, by Joost A. M. Meerloo, M.D., Instructor in Psychiatry, Columbia University Lecturer in Social Psychology, New School for Social Research, Former Chief, Psychological Department, Netherlands Forces, published in 1956, World Publishing Company. (Out of Print) available at Lermanet.com/scientology/

 

[uncover]

Survivors of $cientology, are true life Survivors. I mentioned this to Nancy Many just the other day, how we were the lucky ones.. We are still alive! She quipped back

"Indeed, How lucky we are to have survived $cientology!"

Here is a prediction from 1977 ("The Co$-song" aka "The RPF-melody"):

[video=youtube;XHV8_kIjTQs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHV8_kIjTQs[/video]

 

[Sindy]

Listen, I would hope that most, if not all of you know by now that I (like most everyone here) would rather have harmony the vast majority of the time and usually am not one to stir up crap but I've been thinking about this little, what I consider to be a kamikaze side swipe of me out of nowhere today by Vittorio. Now, PLEASE know that I am not definitely stating that Vittorio is a church member as I have ZERO evidence for that and I am NOT trying to start a witch hunt so use my data with every single bit of caution and discernment.

I started thinking, where the heck did this come from today, really out of nowhere? Again, I am piecing together pieces that may very well not fit together at all but I still wonder.

Yesterday, I had a friend get her FB page “stalked” by a Scientologist who knew she was out, friended her and got in to get access to her friends so he could then send out notices to all of those Scientologists who were still her friends that they needed to disconnect from her (as presumably she had her friend's list hidden from "non-friends" and so he couldn't get access any other way). He friended her, she accepted because she has an open door policy not to act as they do (she might need to change that - LOL) and within a short while he "unfriended" her, told her she needed to get back in good standing, told her what pages of what policy she needed to read (good lord) and then proceeded to get these people to defriend her, which they did.

That pissed me off -- A LOT. So, I called the org and left a message for the EO (who was not there until the evening) that the org needed to reign this public in and that I considered it stalking and harassment and that we would actually file a police report if that crap continued. (Really it's a modern day lynching of sorts). Now I know that the police wouldn't do anything but anyone can file a complaint and more people should so as to develop a provable pattern of behavior. Certainly the C of S doesn't want its name on any police report (and I WILL do it). I told the person taking the message that I considered the policies of the church are what cause people to commit hate crimes and that it's not acceptable. The NOI member at reception who took the message agreed.

I then sent the FB stalker this message (before he blocked me):

"You need to not harass others, friend people just to give useless and ridiculous lectures and warnings and stop telling people who should or should not be friends with anyone on Facebook. I have reported this to the org and what you did was stalking and could very well garner a police report so cease and desist. Thanks. I do not take this disconnection garbage lightly.

The only reason the vast majority of people get declared is because it is the only way to keep people who know what is going on from contaminating those who refuse to look. It would be nice if you did not allow the misapplied policies of the church to turn you into a spiteful person who would be willing to commit hate crimes. Got it? Now go ahead and block me. I have said my peace. I know that you friended _______ even when you knew her views. That was not okay if you were going to act the way that you did. I wish you well but I don't take harassment lightly."

(Please before anyone says, “the policies aren't misapplied, they're intended to make people act just as they do” – I know this but he doesn't).

Then this crap today out of nowhere. It would make sense to me that someone who is "still in" but pretending to be out would hate Mike and Marty, love the tech and today be totally pissed at me for no good reason, say that I "know who he is" (wtf?) and cite some crap that he doesn't back up with one ounce of evidence and then leave without making another post.

Or not -- LOL. It's most likely coincidence but maybe my story here will get him back here to back up what he said.

Vittorio, where are you?

 

[TG1]

... Crickets ...

 

[Gib]

Listen, I would hope that most, if not all of you know by now that I (like most everyone here) would rather have harmony the vast majority of the time and usually am not one to stir up crap but I've been thinking about this little, what I consider to be a kamikaze side swipe of me out of nowhere today by Vittorio. Now, PLEASE know that I am not definitely stating that Vittorio is a church member as I have ZERO evidence for that and I am NOT trying to start a witch hunt so use my data with every single bit of caution and discernment.

I started thinking, where the heck did this come from today, really out of nowhere? Again, I am piecing together pieces that may very well not fit together at all but I still wonder.

Yesterday, I had a friend get her FB page “stalked” by a Scientologist who knew she was out, friended her and got in to get access to her friends so he could then send out notices to all of those Scientologists who were still her friends that they needed to disconnect from her (as presumably she had her friend's list hidden from "non-friends" and so he couldn't get access any other way). He friended her, she accepted because she has an open door policy not to act as they do (she might need to change that - LOL) and within a short while he "unfriended" her, told her she needed to get back in good standing, told her what pages of what policy she needed to read (good lord) and then proceeded to get these people to defriend her, which they did.

That pissed me off -- A LOT. So, I called the org and left a message for the EO (who was not there until the evening) that the org needed to reign this public in and that I considered it stalking and harassment and that we would actually file a police report if that crap continued. (Really it's a modern day lynching of sorts). Now I know that the police wouldn't do anything but anyone can file a complaint and more people should so as to develop a provable pattern of behavior. Certainly the C of S doesn't want its name on any police report (and I WILL do it). I told the person taking the message that I considered the policies of the church are what cause people to commit hate crimes and that it's not acceptable. The NOI member at reception who took the message agreed.

I then sent the FB stalker this message (before he blocked me):



(Please before anyone says, “the policies aren't misapplied, they're intended to make people act just as they do” – I know this but he doesn't).

Then this crap today out of nowhere. It would make sense to me that someone who is "still in" but pretending to be out would hate Mike and Marty, love the tech and today be totally pissed at me for no good reason, say that I "know who he is" (wtf?) and cite some crap that he doesn't back up with one ounce of evidence and then leave without making another post.

Or not -- LOL. It's most likely coincidence but maybe my story here will get him back here to back up what he said.

Vittorio, where are you?

No worries, I didn't think anything of Vitt's posts as a bad light on you. Nor do I give shit. It's a LOL moment so don't take it seriously.

I was in and experienced what you did, so WTF, I don't care what Vitt said, changes nothing in my mind.

I'm also not on facebook or tweeter thingie, no thanks, just don't want to go there with ex or in PT scientologists.

 

[Sindy]

No worries, I didn't think anything of Vitt's posts as a bad light on you. Nor do I give shit. It's a LOL moment so don't take it seriously.

I was in and experienced what you did, so WTF, I don't care what Vitt said, changes nothing in my mind.

I'm also not on facebook or tweeter thingie, no thanks, just don't want to go there with ex or in PT scientologists.

Thank you. I'm not on the "tweeter thingie" either.

 

[TG1]

 

[Sindy]

Since Vittorio doesn't care to take the time to link to anything showing where I mistreated him, I have taken the time to find the threads where I had interaction with him (yeah, I know, a waste of time but whatever):

This is where things went downhill (if anyone actually cares to take the time to get situated and understand this...if not, I totally understand).

Starting on page 10 of this thread, which he started, he starts going after HH and through the rest of this thread is back and forth interaction that is telling.

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?25162-One-of-Marty-s-recent-posts/page10

Then, he "blows" from that thread and starts up here on page 21 of this thread:

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...-with-Mike-Rinder-and-Squirrel-Busters/page21

Same shit, different day. I have chronicled what I see as the truth and so I am complete. I have closure.

 

[In present time]

Since Vittorio doesn't care to take the time to link to anything showing where I mistreated him, I have taken the time to find the threads where I had interaction with him (yeah, I know, a waste of time but whatever):

This is where things went downhill (if anyone actually cares to take the time to get situated and understand this...if not, I totally understand).

Starting on page 10 of this thread, which he started, he starts going after HH and through the rest of this thread is back and forth interaction that is telling.

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?25162-One-of-Marty-s-recent-posts/page10

Then, he "blows" from that thread and starts up here on page 21 of this thread:

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...-with-Mike-Rinder-and-Squirrel-Busters/page21

Same shit, different day. I have chronicled what I see as the truth and so I am complete. I have closure.

god, don't you hate having to take time out of your actual life for shit like this? but good on you for putting it all together.

 

[Purple Rain]

Since Vittorio doesn't care to take the time to link to anything showing where I mistreated him, I have taken the time to find the threads where I had interaction with him (yeah, I know, a waste of time but whatever):

This is where things went downhill (if anyone actually cares to take the time to get situated and understand this...if not, I totally understand).

Starting on page 10 of this thread, which he started, he starts going after HH and through the rest of this thread is back and forth interaction that is telling.

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?25162-One-of-Marty-s-recent-posts/page10

Then, he "blows" from that thread and starts up here on page 21 of this thread:

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...-with-Mike-Rinder-and-Squirrel-Busters/page21

Same shit, different day. I have chronicled what I see as the truth and so I am complete. I have closure.

Sindy, I can see how you were so mean to Vittorio... NOT!!

Vittorio, I like you so far, I do but do you have any idea of what I have done to help expose the criminal entity, the C of S, outside of this message board? Do you know what anyone else has done? It's plenty and I most likely would not have done what I have done if it weren't for this message board.

Good on ya for writing that letter to Marty. I respect your right to make whatever point you wish to make but the one you think you are making about those who post here and what you are assuming about ALL of their activities is not getting through.

Instead of assuming that you know something that you don't, you might just have to dig in and get more information and get to know the people here a bit more.

If you don't want to do that, which is totally your right, then I wouldn't assume and start pointing fingers. It's just gonna flap back in your face - not because people reactively don't like having their flaws pointed out but because you are simply off base about what you perceive to be flaws.

Very nicely said.

I can see how someone could take offense to the criticism of something one thought was helpful to them. Me, I readily admit that I was helped and I know exactly what helped me. No amount of criticism is going to take that away and I feel no need to assert it to keep it alive.

For me, the danger is on the other side. The con was so deep and the betrayal so intense, that it is very easy for the mind to avoid the truth, slap it back, be "reasonable" (if you will), and continue to live with lies. LRH's lies are so incredible that they are the best safeguard against anyone really looking at them. A sane, rational person has a hard time believing they could be so blatant and vicious.

It takes constant, constant, digging through the layers of the onion to undo this stuff.

Deconstructing Hubbard is necessary. What if new people to the subject thought that the problem was only with Miscavige? Then what?

Yes, Miscavige is in present time. Yes, dealing with him and the current C of S is an immediate need but, if anyone is mistaken and believes that once Miscavige is out and the human rights abuses (temporarily) cease, that it's safe to go back in, they have another thing coming.

Vittorio, do you have a story that can be read? Here's mine:

http://leavingscientology.wordpress.com/2010/05/26/standing-up-to-be-counted-synthia-fagen/

No, I didn't think so.

Lol!

 

[Infinite]

. . . Then there is Sindy, the biggest hypocrite of the bunch, had no problem knocking me for believing there is benefit from Dianetics whilst her own husband was posting over on Marty's board instead of sharing his belief in the tech over here (after having bled people dry for years herself). Hope you enjoyed the wedding . . .

Handy hint: Sindy and Dave are not the same person. If Sindy were not to speak "what's true for her" because of her partner's beliefs, then she would be a hypocrite, which is the exact opposite of what you are arguing.

 

[Infinite]

"

With regards to Rathbun and his use of the word "sociopath", I love how Gerry Armstrong points out that Rathbun is really calling people SPs. Gerry then proceeds to totally expose - bit by bit, DOX by DOX - that entire premise. Its a long video, but worth it for those not familiar with the intricacies of how the cult's on-going dead agenting and overall PR work is being forwarded by the Indie Dependents.

[video=youtube_share;9RPPjOSFKok]http://youtu.be/9RPPjOSFKok[/video]​

 

[Vittorio]

"

With regards to Rathbun and his use of the word "sociopath", I love how Gerry Armstrong points out that Rathbun is really calling people SPs. Gerry then proceeds to totally expose - bit by bit, DOX by DOX - that entire premise. Its a long video, but worth it for those not familiar with the intricacies of how the cult's on-going dead agenting and overall PR work is being forwarded by the Indie Dependents.

[video=youtube_share;9RPPjOSFKok]http://youtu.be/9RPPjOSFKok[/video]​

Infinite you (or Gerry shall I say) hit the nail on the head there.

I think I lost it further back on this thread because the sheer lack of justice for the likes of Lisa McPherson and many others who died, took their lives or suffered the sadism of a small crop of Scientologists.

When Sindy posted about the wedding and how people get on better and talk more than what would seem (or something along those lines) I saw red, added to the fact that I found her a bit hypocritical some time ago, I let loose.

I do think Mike Rinder is the more conscientious of the two M's and is probably the smartest as evidenced by his more thought out writing style. But these guy's are really very lucky they are not in prison, especially Marty. What happened to Lisa and many others is practically murder if not negligence leading to murder. To think of what that poor family went through and now ex-Scientologists are hanging out with the collaborators. For someone as high as Marty to leave Scientology is not a new thing; there were more well known Scio's leaving decades before. His behaviour is below what is expected and acceptable of average people in society. A cold and calculated liar with the death of a good woman on his hands and it might be that others forget and join the Marty PR bandwagon, but not everyone will.

What's really interesting is the discussion on Marty's board. Arnie Lerma posted about the function of the brains in Sociopaths. Arnie actually has a very interesting approach to his activism. Knowing full well that he is at logger heads with Marty over many things, instead of engaging in a futile battle, puts out a handful of facts and doesn't get into the core debate about sociopaths. Robin Scott questions Marty further down and asks if it's possible Marty could have been one due to his background. Marty responds with a statement that by even asking that question, Robin might be one! And then Hobson jumps in with the DA pack and asks if Robin is still growing Marijuana!

Arnie and Gerry were spot on this time; the former in his approach and the latter with his observations.

Marty if your reading this; stop enforcing the negative perception of Pat Broeker and David Mayo, stop taking advantage of the gag placed on them (and anyone else). There is a willing audience here who would like to hear what they have to say.

As for Robin Scott, well, you've questioned Marty now, so considered yourself a sociopath or well and truly declared!

 

[Purple Rain]

Infinite you (or Gerry shall I say) hit the nail on the head there.

I think I lost it further back on this thread because the sheer lack of justice for the likes of Lisa McPherson and many others who died, took their lives or suffered the sadism of a small crop of Scientologists.

When Sindy posted about the wedding and how people get on better and talk more than what would seem (or something along those lines) I saw red, added to the fact that I found her a bit hypocritical some time ago, I let loose.

I do think Mike Rinder is the more conscientious of the two M's and is probably the smartest as evidenced by his more thought out writing style. But these guy's are really very lucky they are not in prison, especially Marty. What happened to Lisa and many others is practically murder if not negligence leading to murder. To think of what that poor family went through and now ex-Scientologists are hanging out with the collaborators. For someone as high as Marty to leave Scientology is not a new thing; there were more well known Scio's leaving decades before. His behaviour is below what is expected and acceptable of average people in society. A cold and calculated liar with the death of a good woman on his hands and it might be that others forget and join the Marty PR bandwagon, but not everyone will.

What's really interesting is the discussion on Marty's board. Arnie Lerma posted about the function of the brains in Sociopaths. Arnie actually has a very interesting approach to his activism. Knowing full well that he is at logger heads with Marty over many things, instead of engaging in a futile battle, puts out a handful of facts and doesn't get into the core debate about sociopaths. Robin Scott questions Marty further down and asks if it's possible Marty could have been one due to his background. Marty responds with a statement that by even asking that question, Robin might be one! And then Hobson jumps in with the DA pack and asks if Robin is still growing Marijuana!

Arnie and Gerry were spot on this time; the former in his approach and the latter with his observations.

Marty if your reading this; stop enforcing the negative perception of Pat Broeker and David Mayo, stop taking advantage of the gag placed on them (and anyone else). There is a willing audience here who would like to hear what they have to say.

As for Robin Scott, well, you've questioned Marty now, so considered yourself a sociopath or well and truly declared!

I don't even believe you're an ex-Scientologist. Leave Sindy alone, you creepy stalker.

 

[degraded being]

Infinite you (or Gerry shall I say) hit the nail on the head there.

I think I lost it further back on this thread because the sheer lack of justice for the likes of Lisa McPherson and many others who died, took their lives or suffered the sadism of a small crop of Scientologists.

When Sindy posted about the wedding and how people get on better and talk more than what would seem (or something along those lines) I saw red, added to the fact that I found her a bit hypocritical some time ago, I let loose.

I do think Mike Rinder is the more conscientious of the two M's and is probably the smartest as evidenced by his more thought out writing style. But these guy's are really very lucky they are not in prison, especially Marty. What happened to Lisa and many others is practically murder if not negligence leading to murder. To think of what that poor family went through and now ex-Scientologists are hanging out with the collaborators. For someone as high as Marty to leave Scientology is not a new thing; there were more well known Scio's leaving decades before. His behaviour is below what is expected and acceptable of average people in society. A cold and calculated liar with the death of a good woman on his hands and it might be that others forget and join the Marty PR bandwagon, but not everyone will.

What's really interesting is the discussion on Marty's board. Arnie Lerma posted about the function of the brains in Sociopaths. Arnie actually has a very interesting approach to his activism. Knowing full well that he is at logger heads with Marty over many things, instead of engaging in a futile battle, puts out a handful of facts and doesn't get into the core debate about sociopaths. Robin Scott questions Marty further down and asks if it's possible Marty could have been one due to his background. Marty responds with a statement that by even asking that question, Robin might be one! And then Hobson jumps in with the DA pack and asks if Robin is still growing Marijuana!

Arnie and Gerry were spot on this time; the former in his approach and the latter with his observations.

Marty if your reading this; stop enforcing the negative perception of Pat Broeker and David Mayo, stop taking advantage of the gag placed on them (and anyone else). There is a willing audience here who would like to hear what they have to say.

As for Robin Scott, well, you've questioned Marty now, so considered yourself a sociopath or well and truly declared!

The point you make about exes relationship with M&M is interesting.
Better the criminal you know than the criminal you don't know........is that how it works?
Or the criminal of my own personal ex-cult is not a criminal like any other ordinary criminal in society. (This is an extreme bastardization of The enemy of my enemy is not my friend).
All criminals should have their own support groups who assess them for how much progress they have made on their decompression or on how someone talked to them on the phone and knows they are a really good guy. Forget about where the bodies are buried.

 

[Purple Rain]

The point you make about exes relationship with M&M is interesting.
Better the criminal you know than the criminal you don't know........is that how it works?
Or the criminal of my own personal ex-cult is not a criminal like any other ordinary criminal in society. (This is an extreme bastardization of The enemy of my enemy is not my friend).
All criminals should have their own support groups who assess them for how much progress they have made on their decompression or on how someone talked to them on the phone and knows they are a really good guy. Forget about where the bodies are buried.

Better the proof of the criminality to accompany the accusation usually. But why let such details get in the way of a good smear.

 

[degraded being]

Better the proof of the criminality to accompany the accusation usually. But why let such details get in the way of a good smear.

Oh yeah, Being at the top in OSA is about doing genuine good works for the community.