Marty's Exodus and Power vs Force.


I've posted multiple times about David R. Hawkins series of Power vs Force. These were instrumental in deconstructing the Scientology mind trap for me and I've often thought that if a practicing Scientologist were to read them they would then experience the same thing - POP! No more cult. These books are all about nonduality as a concept.

I think this has happened with Marty. The first clue of this was Marty's Tone Scale critique:

Here's MahTee's Tone Scale replete with additives:

Bliss, Pan-equilibrium (Non-Duality)

Serenity, equilibrium (Justice)

40.0 Serenity of Beingness Know

Compassion (Responsibility)

Care (Nurturing)

Empathy (Transcendence of ego/pan-emotion)

Appreciation (Acknowledgment)

Release (Letting go)

30.0 Postulates Not Know

22.0 Games Know About

20.0 Action Look

8 Exhilaration Plus Emotion

6 Aesthetics

4 Enthusiasm

3.5 Cheerfulness

3.3 Strong Interest

3.0 Conservatism

2.9 Mild Interest

2.8 Contented

2.6 Disinterested

2.5 Boredom

2.4 Monotony

If I didn't know...and I actually don't know...I'd think the old boy was reading some David R. Hawkins Power VS Force stuff.

Here's Hawkins' book titles:

Books by Dr. Hawkins

  1. Power vs Force: Author's official Revised Edition
  2. The Eye of the I
  3. I: Reality and Subjectivity
  4. Truth vs. Flasehood: How to Tell the Difference
  5. Transcending the Levels of Consciousness
  6. Discovery of the Presence of God: Devotional Nonduality
  7. Reality, Spirituality and Modern Man
  8. Healing and Recovery
  9. Letting Go: The Pathway of Surrender

Then there was direct proof that Marty was reading Hawkins:

Looks like Marty Rathbun has been reading Hawkins' Power vs Force. I'm telling ya', no Scientologist can read this book and exit unscathed!

Awakening from scientology

Awakening – Part II

Awakening – Part III

Which, I believe, lead Marty to his Clear and Above stuff and his exodus from Hubbard:

The lower level scientology program up to the state of Clear is a directed form of client-centered psychotherapy. One doctor fully trained in both client-centered therapy and scientology has astutely written that ‘directed client-centered therapy’ is an apparent oxymoron. That may in fact be a critical entry point for the bipolar quality that seems embedded throughout scientology. Nonetheless, the description of the end product of the scientology lower levels is nearly identical to that described as the self-actualization end product of client-centered therapy.

When a person reaches the Clear state – resembling common notions of self-actualization – he is indoctrinated into the secrets of the universe. Fully grasping those secrets requires the adoption of a form of multiple personality disorder. Incidentally, and not the impetus for this observation, modern mental health recognizes that certain psychotherapeutic practices can serve as a causation factor for mpd. Scientology secrets inform the individual that in fact he is not an individual at all. Instead he is a ‘composite being’, consisting of a potential infinity of separate, distinct individuals. Each individual member of the composite has quadrillions of years of its own experiential history that it brings to the dizzy equation. Extraordinary, and expensive to the seeker, measures are employed to ensure the scientologist believes this universe view with utter certitude. For several tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars the advanced scientologist is invited to address and release each of his or her parasite personalities. The process entails hundreds or thousands of individual sessions. The process takes many years. The individual completes this penultimate scientology advanced level when there are apparently no more personalities left but his own.

The scientologist then pays another ten to twenty thousand dollars for the privilege of determining which of the lifetimes of those now allegedly departed parasite personalities he mistook for his own. That is what L. Ron Hubbard left behind as his legacy.

However, after completing that final scientology level himself Hubbard went back to chasing down more of what he apparently found to be an endless hoard of demonic, parasitic personalities that he continued to harbor. Frustrated, he attempted to finally rid himself of the demons in one fell swoop and kill himself in the bargain through the application of electric shock. He dismally failed in the assisted attempt on his own life. Whether or not that attempt was the cause, at about the same time as his suicide mission Hubbard sustained a debilitating stroke. He was reduced to asking others whether they could hunt down his own parasitic demons personalities for him. (see Memoirs of a Scientology Warrior)

Since Hubbard’s 1986 death scientology authorities have taken to having advanced members who have completed the full scientology program but who are still unsatisfied re-do the entire scientology program from the bottom up. The believer is given to understand that the source of his dissatisfaction is some misapplication of scientology along the way.

For the dedicated member of this monotheistic religion that repeatedly promotes that when in doubt one should ‘do as Ron (L. Ron Hubbard) would do’, there should be little surprise that often one does not experience a happy ending.

This isn't posted to covertly get someone into another cult. I don't follow Hawkins or belong to a Hawkins group. I've spent about two hundred bucks on eight books and won't be buying any more. The purpose for this post is that IMHO these books, especially the first three, if read by a practicing Scientologist will be the vehicle that leads them out of the cult.

This is posted for anyone who may have friends or relatives still in.

In that regard these works are valuable.


New Member
Dear guanoloco,

I appreciate this post, because Hawkins is certainly better than Hubbard; I don’t believe that is disputed. Hawkins’ new religious movement is relatively new, as well as small by comparison to Hubbard’s, so people are not as informed about it. I have to suggest, however, that recommending books by Hawkins and stating that one is not in a cult is similar to endorsing books by Hubbard and hoping that people do not join Scientology.

The “Devotional Nonduality” community – Hawkins’ new religious movement – has been described by insiders as a “cult.” While some people spend only hundreds of dollars on Hawkins’ books, others have donated thousands of dollars to the Institute for Spiritual Research, Inc., which seems to be a means of procuring more profit for Hawkins’ widow, Susan. The products offered by Veritas Publishing, Hawkins’ self-publishing company, if purchased in full come to about $10,000, and it is common for people to spend thousands. Hawkins stated that he charged money merely to cover expenses, but in fact he made millions of dollars with his spiritual teachings. The Institute itself has $2 million in assets, and that is based primarily on donations.

I recognize that you have a good faith interest in seeing people grow out of Scientology, which is surely commendable. But before you suggest that people read Hawkins, which may be of help initially for Scientologists, please consider the full picture and the other side of the story before endorsing Hawkins so resolutely. I think the closer you look, the more you will see that Hawkins is not entirely dissimilar to Hubbard. I don’t wish to go into all of the details, but please read Scott Jeffrey’s and Arjuna Aletheia’s books and eBooks. Also consider this outline of Jeffrey’s book, Power vs. Truth: If one is interested in nonduality as a spiritual path, consider teachers that even Dr. Hawkins endorsed, such as Sri Ramana Maharshi, Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj, and Huang Po. There are not levels of enlightenment, one may find in these teachings; the concept of levels in Hawkins comes from Hubbard himself via Lester Levenson. In Advaita, Love, Peace, and Enlightenment are synonyms for the Self, rather than levels of “consciousness.” Consciousness is One.

Thanks so much for your consideration. Blessings.


JDA, thank you.

You may be entirely correct re Hawkins. IMHO the outcome for Scientologists will be entirely different. I'd be willing to bet that ZERO Xenu Scientologists wind up as fodder for Hawkins. It is my opinion that they will do one of two things:

1) leave Scientology
2) stay in Scientology

However, the only Scientologists that will read a book by a psych will already be on the fence so the answer is 1).

In addition the books are perfect in that the Scientologist will actually leave and not run off to Astar's Freak Zone.

If I thought people would wind up back in a cult I'd express that concern.


New Member

Thank you for your response. I would like to make a few more comments on this subject, and then I will have done, and I hope that you and others keep an eye on it to ensure, as you say, that former Scientologists do not become involved in the Devotional Nonduality movement. Some hints may be if people begin to accept Hawkins Applied Kinesiology as absolute and unquestioning fact, and refer to Dr. Hawkins as their “Lord.”

My concern is not unfounded, however. I know of at least one or two Scientologists who became involved in Hawkins’ cult, and Scott Jeffrey stated in Power vs. Truth, “It’s probably not a coincidence that many students of Hawkins’ work came to him after being immersed in more destructive cult environments. This, in itself, is a revealing fact. If you took a random sample of die-hard Hawkins’ students, you would be amazed at how many of them have had prior cult experience in one form or another. While Hawkins’ system appears to be an ‘upgrade’ compared to certain, more destructive cult systems, it still appears to be a manifestation of developmental arrest at a particular stage of development” (Kindle location 3511, 6195). Jeffrey also notes that Hawkins’ bones have been saved as relics. I have read Steven Hassan state that it is common for people who were once in a cult to join another. The woman who wrote the online outline of Power vs. Truth that I previously posted was in several cults herself, Hawkins’ being the latest and probably last. I have heard that it is not uncommon for some former Scientologists to get involved in Landmark, for example. There is no Xenu in Hawkins’ cult, but there is still a good dose of nuttiness. For instance, in Hawkins’ biography, Doctor of Truth, Scott Jeffrey writes, “David says he encountered a ‘rarified Luciferic presence that promised great power if one went into agreement with it…I could take all the life on this planet to please me, and beyond karma, there is no consequence…One can become ruler of the universe,’ David says” (242-43). Watchful Navigator humorously quoted George W. Bush at this thread. It is worth remembering that Hawkins ‘calibrated’ Bush at ‘460’ (high in the Reason level), and Hawkins supported neoconservative politics, including the preemptive invasion of Iraq.

I actually think that you are right, and Hawkins’ work can be a good bridge between Scientology and reality. Just please help me to keep an eye on the situation, though the odds are slight that any more Scientologists at this point will become a true Hawkins acolyte. It is a bit similar to curing a heroin addiction with methadone, but hopefully it will be a brief treatment. Personally, I would hope that people give as little money as possible, if any, to Veritas Publishing and Hay House. There are Hawkins materials available for free through libraries, YouTube, and Pirate Bay. I think it may be found at some point in the future that the Hawkins cult might warrant something of a “Side Project Chanology” – for example, Veritas Publishing hired lawyers to get Hawkins’ Wikipedia entry deleted, as well as information from cult experts at the New England Institute of Religious Research, and regularly file DMCA complaints.

But if in the present Hawkins’ work can help people get out of Scientology, I suppose that is by far the lesser of two evils.