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Marty's going to Germany to Handle the German government

Veda

Sponsor
Red on white.

So Hubbard's books and his handwritten Clearing and OT materials would be excluded, while such expressions of enlightenment as, for example, the red on white 'LSD, Years after they come off of', and the red on white 'Pain and Sex', would be included. If that's the case, you can call yourself a red-on-white-ologist, but you're not a Scientologist anymore.
 

Type4_PTS

Diamond Invictus SP
Red on white.

Scientology is a package deal as created by Hubbard imo. Perhaps some useful things could be surgically extracted from the rest of the crap to benefit people. But then it is no longer Scientology. One can't just pick and choose those things with which he agrees with and say that that is "Scientology". Even if you tried to do that you'd have students who "discovered" the censored writings of Hubbard, including KSW, and begin following those policies. Hubbard made it pretty clear that NOBODY had the ability (other than himself) to cancel or alter in any way KSW Series#1. And THAT policy is responsible for much of the insanity and fanaticism caused by Scientology.

The Scn philosophy is deeply embedded within the Ethics Tech and Hubbard made it pretty clear that one cannot get Tech in until Ethics was in.

One cannot seperate the philosophy from the Tech, and the philosophy has much to do with the abuses (as Auditor'sToad previously mentioned).

By the way, wasn't KSW Series#1 issued as both a bulletin (red on white) as well as a policy? :unsure:
 

Type4_PTS

Diamond Invictus SP
I never in the past gave much consideration to the points in common between CoS and the Nazi's. Somehow though Ursula's comments to Larry B really impinged upon me. It makes total sense to me that the Germans would be more sensitive than others at spotting emerging groups which are potentially dangerous.

And others too also see similarities. Hubbard's son, Ron DeWolf (formerly L. Ron Hubbard Jr) for one. Listen to his comments beginning at about 6:35 of this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcPoSo49dYU&feature=related
 

lotus

stubborn rebel sheep!
preacher.png
 

Smurf

Gold Meritorious SP
I'm quite sure that Ursula will "handle" Marty :coolwink:

While I found the videos amusing, I was surprised to hear how many times Marty repeatedly told Mark how he was going to "handle" Ursula Caberta and "I've done more to distinguish LRH & recover LRH than anyone else in the last 2 years."

Marty refuses to acknowledge that alot of abuse & criminal acts occurred until L. Ron Hubbard's watch & with his approval long before David Miscavige took over the cult.

Are we supposed to forget about Operation Snow White & the fact that LRH moved from place to place fearing the FBI was looking for him? Leave it to Marty to rewrite history and disinfect what is already documented fact.

What in the world was Ursula thinking inviting him to speak? It certainly will make for an interesting speech. Are they allowed to burn people at the stake in Germany, Markus?
 

FoTi

Crusader
Ursula doesn't need any handling. She appears to be doing just fine the way she is. :biggrin:

I'm looking forward to the show, though. :drama::drama::drama:
 

Arthur Dent

Silver Meritorious Patron
Scientology is a package deal as created by Hubbard imo. Perhaps some useful things could be surgically extracted from the rest of the crap to benefit people. But then it is no longer Scientology. One can't just pick and choose those things with which he agrees with and say that that is "Scientology". Even if you tried to do that you'd have students who "discovered" the censored writings of Hubbard, including KSW, and begin following those policies. Hubbard made it pretty clear that NOBODY had the ability (other than himself) to cancel or alter in any way KSW Series#1. And THAT policy is responsible for much of the insanity and fanaticism caused by Scientology.

The Scn philosophy is deeply embedded within the Ethics Tech and Hubbard made it pretty clear that one cannot get Tech in until Ethics was in.

One cannot seperate the philosophy from the Tech, and the philosophy has much to do with the abuses (as Auditor'sToad previously mentioned).

By the way, wasn't KSW Series#1 issued as both a bulletin (red on white) as well as a policy? :unsure:

KSW #1 would have to go. It's all in there. Or at least a lot of it is. I can't see them relinquishing that. They will hold onto it for dear life as it wouldn't hold together without it. The whole thing would have to go.
 

lotus

stubborn rebel sheep!
Marty refuses to acknowledge that alot of abuse & criminal acts occurred until L. Ron Hubbard's watch & with his approval long before David Miscavige took over the cult.

Are we supposed to forget about Operation Snow White & the fact that LRH moved from place to place fearing the FBI was looking for him? Leave it to Marty to rewrite history and disinfect what is already documented fact.

This is entheta and natter :nervous:

Please,
a volounteer minister of desenturbulation here
I feel entheta

:bigcry:
 

Cherished

Silver Meritorious Patron
While I found the videos amusing, I was surprised to hear how many times Marty repeatedly told Mark how he was going to "handle" Ursula Caberta and "I've done more to distinguish LRH & recover LRH than anyone else in the last 2 years."
Actually, Marty never once said he was going to handle Ursula.

That said, Marty will need, I think, to expressly disavow certain LRH policies if he's to get any forward motion in Germany for Scientology.
 

Jump

Operating teatime
Actually, Marty never once said he was going to handle Ursula.

That said, Marty will need, I think, to expressly disavow certain LRH policies if he's to get any forward motion in Germany for Scientology.

But Marty doesn't speak for the organised Scientology corporation - so I don't really see any point in going.
 

anonomog

Gold Meritorious Patron
oh god
He is going to handle Germany.

There is nothing quite like a Scientologist's delusional belief system mixed with delusional arrogance to produce, well, delusions.

Just how important is Sientology to Germany I ask myself?

I did some primary school maths on some estimated numbers to give myself something to work off. Not saying this is scientific and 100% correct.

Population of German +/- 83 million

Being very generous and assuming that Germany is home to say 1/5th the Scientology population of the world and again being generous and assigning a total world figure of 40 000. (using Jeff Hawkins figure) then we have 8 000 people in Germany practising Scientology (in or out of the church).

Then total population of Sci's in Germany is 0.009%.

Marty, I am sorry to tell you but Scientology just isn't that important, except perhaps to a government, that is doing a study in how it can prevent a splinter group of true believers from evolving into a batshit totalitarian cult in the future.
 

Cherished

Silver Meritorious Patron
But Marty doesn't speak for the organised Scientology corporation - so I don't really see any point in going.
I have a hunch it will be one of those moments in scientology history about which scientology-watchers will recall where they were when they heard.






Okay. I exaggerate slightly. If I were in Germany, I'd go.
 

Student of Trinity

Silver Meritorious Patron
I'm relatively new to Germany, but to me it actually seems quite credible that some organ of the German government would invite Marty to spiel about Scientology. Because of the simultaneous commitments to liberal tolerance and suppression of totalitarianism, for religious movements in Germany there is in principle a very sharp line between being strongly defended by law, and being banned. It takes quite a lot to fall on the 'banned' side, but Scientology rings a lot of bad bells here. It's too close for comfort.

Some government officials have to decide where to draw that sharp line, and I have no doubt that they will be conscientious to a fault. My very amateurish guess is that there's a good chance Marty Rathbun will indeed 'save' Scientology, by presenting a coherent enough case for distinguishing Scientology as a belief from the Church of Scientology that the German government in some way recognizes the distinction. It won't take any great heroism or 'at cause-ness' on Marty's part, either. I'm pretty sure that the conscientious German bureaucrats would be extremely uncomfortable in formally condemning any religious viewpoint, but they are probably also rather keen to condemn the CofS. Anything better than an implosion by Marty would give them the excuse I think they want, to make the call that he also wants.
 

Markus

Silver Meritorious Patron
While I found the videos amusing, I was surprised to hear how many times Marty repeatedly told Mark how he was going to "handle" Ursula Caberta and "I've done more to distinguish LRH & recover LRH than anyone else in the last 2 years."

Marty refuses to acknowledge that alot of abuse & criminal acts occurred until L. Ron Hubbard's watch & with his approval long before David Miscavige took over the cult.

Are we supposed to forget about Operation Snow White & the fact that LRH moved from place to place fearing the FBI was looking for him? Leave it to Marty to rewrite history and disinfect what is already documented fact.

What in the world was Ursula thinking inviting him to speak? It certainly will make for an interesting speech. Are they allowed to burn people at the stake in Germany, Markus?

It always amazes me how bad you US - Americans are educated in History and geograpgy :coolwink: Of course we do not burn people at the stake - we eat them because we like raw meat:p
I do not know what Ursula thought when she invited him to speak but I know that she understands Hubbards brainwashing system - so I'm sure she will not give Marty the plattform he is exspecting right now.
When I said that Ursula will handle Marty I reffered to the OP where it was stated that Marty is going to handle the German government and I thought that this will not be the case at all because I know Ursula and her opinion about Hubbard quite well.

Love
Markus
 

Jump

Operating teatime
I'm relatively new to Germany, but to me it actually seems quite credible that some organ of the German government would invite Marty to spiel about Scientology. Because of the simultaneous commitments to liberal tolerance and suppression of totalitarianism, for religious movements in Germany there is in principle a very sharp line between being strongly defended by law, and being banned. It takes quite a lot to fall on the 'banned' side, but Scientology rings a lot of bad bells here. It's too close for comfort.

Some government officials have to decide where to draw that sharp line, and I have no doubt that they will be conscientious to a fault. My very amateurish guess is that there's a good chance Marty Rathbun will indeed 'save' Scientology, by presenting a coherent enough case for distinguishing Scientology as a belief from the Church of Scientology that the German government in some way recognizes the distinction. It won't take any great heroism or 'at cause-ness' on Marty's part, either. I'm pretty sure that the conscientious German bureaucrats would be extremely uncomfortable in formally condemning any religious viewpoint, but they are probably also rather keen to condemn the CofS. Anything better than an implosion by Marty would give them the excuse I think they want, to make the call that he also wants.

Then they should ban Scientology - because without the compulsory volunteering, the coerced abortions, the disconnections, the slave labour, the prison compounds, the child labour, the discouraging of education, the deception of police, the extortion ... etc - it just ain't Scientology any more. Is it??
 
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