Marty's going to Germany to Handle the German government

thetanic

Gold Meritorious Patron
I presume he will give a similar view to my own, that scn tech and philosophy is separate from the awful abuses of CO$

But it's not, not at all.

There are more endemic abuses in Scientology than in the Bible, and that's saying something.
 

Nicole

Silver Meritorious Patron
I used my wikipedia-powers and behold:
"Sie ist außerdem Leiterin der seit 2001 bestehenden Obersten Landesjugendbehörde für den Jugendschutz bezüglich neuer und ideologischer Gemeinschaften und Psychogruppen, die ebenfalls zur Hamburger Innenbehörde gehört"

"She also is head of the 2001 established Chief State Youth Authority for Youth Protection in regard to new and ideological communities and psychogroups, which is also part of Hamburg ministry of the interior."

That has to be the longest name of a State Authority I have ever read. Plus if they afford Offices like that I don't wonder anymore why they are short on cash ^^


Interesting... Than she was the head of the AGS closed last year, but she is still the head of the Chief State Youth Authority for Youth Protection in regard to new and ideological communities and psychogroups. (Long name is long...)

Ursula Caberta has written a new book: "Schwarzbuch Esoterik", this book is not against Scientology, it is against esoterism.

At the homepage of the Hamburg state she is called now sect expert. In the past I remember she was called Scientology expert.
„Schwarzbuch Esoterik“: Innensenator Michael Neumann stellt neues Buch von Sekten-Expertin Ursula Caberta vor
 

Veda

Sponsor
Yes I used " Red on white" as a metaphor.

I mean any scn tech that enhances individuals.

-snip-

So "Green on white" is, in some instances, "Red on white."

And when you say "Red on white" you may very well be saying "Green on white."

:headspin:
 

Veda

Sponsor
So, now you are a spokesperson for Co$ and Mark Rathbun ?

O RLY ?

As you well know, Sneakster, only RON himself can function as a spokesman for both the Cof$ and Marty Rathbun. As Chairman of the Galactic Grand Council, only RON has that authority. http://galac-patra.narod.ru/index.html I hope you are preparing yourself for the excitement of the great day of Unification, when all RON's children, Cof$ Scientologists, Independent Scientologists, Freezone Scientologists, and Free Zone (Ron's Orgs) Scientologists, will come together:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyNh1j3dsp8
 

GoNuclear

Gold Meritorious Patron
Maybe Marty can promise DM, say, 500 million bucks to go away and leave.

With Marty running the show it would just get more brutal, more ruthless, and - of course - even more expensive.

While not an indie or a believer in Marty-tech, I wish the guy well, and I don't buy that he would be worse than DM. Why? if he was ... considering DM's delusions and all around craziness ... if Marty was more cunning and more power hungry than DM, he would have been able to pull off a coup while still at int, or, after his sabatical at Flag, go back to int and pull off a coup. As I recall, reading some of the int base horror stories ... even some of the security people, in particular one who stood watch in the eagle's nest, would from time to time have DM literally in the cross hairs of a high powered rifle and would entertain fantasies of pulling the trigger. All it would take is a few security people, a private room, and a set of handcuffs ... all of which were available at the int base ... that and a few hours of free time between musters ... and a little physical persuasion. This could have all been accomplished without leaving a mark ... either via a simple pulp tester as found in any dentist office, perhaps at 5.4x the voltage just for fun ... or some water boarding, and the threat that if DM doesn't talk and spill the beans on how to access the bank accounts, and should the torture get more physical, then it wouldn't stop until he is dead. I am sure that DM would be delusional enough to believe that if he talked he would be allowed to live. Of course, as soon as the bank account info was verified accurate, DM would be given a new job ... pushing up desert flora somewhat off the int base. Nobody would miss him too much, except for his latest squeeze, who, of course, would meet a similar fate minus the torture. Really, that is all it would take.

I am not a particularly evil dude, but nevertheless, the thought of torturing people crosses my mind from time to time. Admit it, some of you out there think about that too ... not to seriously entertain, but, in considering how a crime could be pulled off, admit it ... it could come in handy. And don't think for one moment that DM hasn't considered torture as well.

Anyways, that is how to get the job done, all Marty would have needed was a small handful of co-conspirators. And to get those co-conspirators in useful positions, i.e., base security, all he would have had to have done is set them up to receive a beating at the hands of DM ... not all that difficult, considering. A security hoople on the edge anyways would easily be pushed over and consider getting some payback if he were to receive a COMPLETELY undeserved beating or two at the hands of the resident ooompa loompa. And please, again, don't tell me I'm the only guy out there that thinks of shit like that.

Anyways, my point is simply that if Marty wanted to stage a coup he have already done so ... running off to Texas was not the way to get it done.

Pete
 

Pooks

MERCHANT OF CHAOS
You know the Germans closed down Ursula Caberta's department because Scientology had become so inconsequential that in effect her efficiency had done her out of a job.

Actually she still has her job but no staff and a very limited budget.
 

Infinite

Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
Actually she still has her job but no staff and a very limited budget.

Also, her office was "right sized" as part of budget austerity measures. The idea that it was decided Scientology in Germany is no longer a threat is plain dumb.

Friday, 21 December 2007, 16:46
C O N F I D E N T I A L SECTION 01 OF 03 HAMBURG 000073
SIPDIS
DEPARTMENT FOR EUR/AGS AND DRL.
SIPDIS
EO 12958 DECL: 12/21/2017
TAGS PGOV, PHUM, SOCI, GM
SUBJECT: HAMBURG VS. SCIENTOLOGY
REF: BERLIN 2211
HAMBURG 00000073 001.2 OF 003
CLASSIFIED BY: Karen Johnson, Consul General, U.S. Consulate General Hamburg, U.S. Department of State. REASON: 1.4 (b), (d) CONFIDENTIAL

SIPDIS

1. (C) SUMMARY: Since the creation of the Working Group on Scientology (AGS) in 1992 within its interior ministry with its firebrand leader, Hamburg has been at sharp odds with the Church of Scientology and more recently has taken a leading role in an attempt to ban the organization. On August 7, Hamburg's Interior Minister Udo Nagel (independent) announced the proposal to ban Scientology under Germany's Law of Associations. In November, the Hamburg State Parliament mandated him with submitting the proposal to the state interior ministers at their December meeting. Leadership within the Hamburg interior ministry, including from the Office for the Protection of the Constitution (OPC), has confirmed to ConGen Hamburg that the proposal is mainly politically motivated and that they expect the issue to die down at the latest after state elections in Bavaria. This cable examines the background to the heightened debate over Scientology in Hamburg. END SUMMARY.

HAMBURG'S WORKING GROUP ON SCIENTOLOGY

2. (SBU) In 1992, the Hamburg State Parliament created the Working Group on Scientology (Arbeitsgruppe Scientology or AGS) within the Hamburg interior ministry mandated to address all "destructive groups," which endanger society, in particular young people. AGS not only focuses on Scientology's activities within Hamburg, but also other organizations such as the Church of Satan, Transcendental Meditation, and the Unification Church. According to AGS Director Ursula Caberta, AGS and the Hamburg interior ministry view Scientology as a "politically motivated destructive cult." Thus, Caberta explained, as a state institution, it is their duty to protect the public from such organizations. In her meeting with Hamburg's Pol/Econ Officer and Specialist on November 13, she stressed that she viewed her work as that of a civil servant assigned to do a particular job by the state parliament. Currently, AGS's responsibilities are three-fold: 1) to analyze what steps the state must take to protect the public from "destructive groups;" 2) to educate the public about the dangers of such organizations; and 3) to assist victims. Hamburg is the only state in Germany with a Scientology working group. Under Caberta's leadership the working group has five employees. AGS offices were filled with books on Scientology, including all of L. Ron Hubbard's works and many of his lectures.

EUROPE UNDER ATTACK?

3. (C) Caberta stated that Scientology has declared "war on Europe." She cited evidence from Hamburg's Office for the Protection of the Constitution (OPC) annual reports of how Scientology attempts to influence politicians and political institutions as well as the press. According to the Hamburg OPC's 2006 report, Scientology continues to use methods that are "against the free, democratic constitutional structure," as was established in the 1997 State Interior Ministers meeting. Caberta asserted that Scientology in Germany has received orders from the Los Angeles headquarters to "conquer" Europe. She contends that the new Berlin headquarters have been set up for this "campaign." She continually stressed that she views Scientology not as a religious organization, but as a "political extremist" one. According to Caberta, the Hamburg Scientologists as well as most of the Scientology members in Germany are only "small fish" and the organization's strategic planning is conducted in the United States. Caberta showed Pol/Econ Officer and Specialist a booklet she had received early November that appeared to be published by Hamburg's mayor. The booklet contained the mayor's photograph and signature, yet was actually a publication from Scientology's "The Way to Happiness Foundation." Caberta contended that Scientology regularly used misleading methods to fool individuals into joining and said that such booklets had been distributed to other German cities. For someone unfamiliar with Scientology publications, the booklet looked very much like information brochures from the City of Hamburg.

4. (C) In a meeting at the consulate on December 19, Hamburg OPC leadership explained that it was a political decision for the

HAMBURG 00000073 002.2 OF 003

state OPCs to observe Scientology, based upon the "totalitarian assertions" described in L. Ron Hubbard's writings. They called their observation of Scientology "special," making it clear that they did not view the organization as a threat and that it was their responsibility to only collect information and not to pass judgment on the organization. They noted that while the OPC does not view Scientology as a religious organization, this would have no bearing on their work as the OPC observes both religious and non-religious institutions.

CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY'S TAKE

5. (C) In Hamburg's Pol/Econ Officer and Specialist's meetings with Hamburg Scientology figures , our contacts made it clear that the Hamburg church faces a particularly challenging situation with Caberta, who is now considered Germany's "expert" on Scientology. They also noted that Hamburg is the only German state that has a Scientology working group, although Berlin's ministry for education has a "sect-watcher" position. (Note: In a meeting on December 14, Hamburg Deputy State Minister of the Interior Christoph Ahlhaus told CG Johnson that Berlin has been trying to convince Caberta to transfer there. End Note.) Scientology press spokesman Frank Busch claimed that AGS is exempt from the German version of the Freedom of Information Act. He complained that Caberta is "above the law" and her work is not being assessed or monitored by the interior ministry. Busch questioned why this lack of scrutiny existed since Scientology found her work to be one-sided, factually incorrect, and "playing with the people's emotions." They believe that a normal citizen would have difficulty gathering objective information on Scientology in Hamburg. According to Busch, none of Hamburg's public libraries have any of L. Ron Hubbard's books. Scientology members are not allowed to distribute flyers in the city and private individuals allegedly monitor whether members overstep these boundaries. Busch also claimed that Hamburg's Chamber of Commerce still screens out Scientology members from hiring and encourages members to do so as well, even though the city of Hamburg has ceased such practices (known locally as a "sect-filter"). (Note: Documents containing the "filter" are available on-line at the Chamber of Commerce's webpage. End Note.)

NAGEL'S PROPOSAL TO BAN SCIENTOLOGY

6. (C) On August 7 at the press release of Caberta's "Black Book Scientology" Nagel announced that he would propose discussing banning Scientology at the December 7 state interior ministers meeting. In a conversation with Pol/Econ Specialist on August 13, Hamburg Interior Ministry Spokesman Marco Haase suggested that the announcement was the result of several unrelated occurrences, such as the recent publication of Caberta's book, the case of the Berlin girl and her brother seeking refuge in Hamburg (Ref.), the attention to Scientology generated during the filming of the movie "Valkyrie" in Berlin, in which Tom Cruise stars, and the summer media slump. According to Haase, Nagel believes that a ban alone is not the answer. Rather, assistance to ex-Scientologists and education on Scientology also have important roles to play. Nagel also believes that there is sufficient evidence suggesting that Scientology undertakes activities that undermine the German constitution.

7. (C) In a meeting on December 14 with Hamburg's CG and Pol/Econ Officer, Hamburg's Deputy State Minister for the Interior Christoph Ahlhaus clarified that Nagel certainly believes that Scientology should be banned, but he also realizes the political difficulties of such an endeavor. Ahlhaus explained that the Hamburg parliament charged Nagel in a unanimous decision on November 11 to propose the ban at the interior ministers meeting. He also stated that the ministry's involvement in the issue stems foremost from the criminal cases brought annually against Scientology. Ahlhaus said these numbered over 100 and had been increasing significantly. He also explained that the issue of Scientology was very popular with voters and confirmed that it had come up because of the February 24 Hamburg state elections. Ahlhaus expected that findings would be addressed at the interior ministers' spring meeting and that perhaps the issue would come up again with the Bavarian state elections next year. After that, he believed that the issue would fizzle out. Ahlhaus portrayed Hamburg as Scientology's German headquarters and noted that the

HAMBURG 00000073 003.2 OF 003

organization is also present in Berlin, Baden-Wurttemberg, and Bavaria, where banning Scientology also has political support. He commented that Scientology is almost like a "criminal organization" with Mafia-type structures.

COMMENT

8. (C) With a strong Scientology Church and the Scientology working group both located in Hamburg, the debate on Scientology in Germany reaches a zenith in this city. Caberta has become a national figure on the organization and Ahlhaus revealed that she often speaks to the press without clearing remarks through the interior ministry. He stated that Nagel believes she is a little "crazy" and assured the CG that Nagel's office keeps a close watch on her activities. In the meantime, although Nagel is an independent, he has stakes in the upcoming elections and other local politicians are keen to show voters that they are actively addressing their concerns. It is doubtful that the Hamburg government will change their view of Scientology in the future even though officials openly and cordially discuss with ConGen representatives USG policy on religious freedom. Nevertheless, the ban proposal may move to the back burner once elections have passed, leaving Scientology Hamburg and AGS to deal with their regular concerns. END COMMENT.

9. (U) This message has been coordinated with Embassy Berlin. JOHNSON

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/us-embassy-cables-documents/135450
 

Nicole

Silver Meritorious Patron
Also, her office was "right sized" as part of budget austerity measures. The idea that it was decided Scientology in Germany is no longer a threat is plain dumb.

One thing I want to explain... I think something is mixing here. Germany has 16 Bundesländer (=states)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany
Germany comprises sixteen states (Bundesländer),[61] each one having its own state constitution (Landesverfassung)[62] and largely autonomous in regard to its internal organisation. Due to differences in size and population the subdivision of these states varies, especially between city states (Stadtstaaten) and states with larger territories (Flächenländer). On municipal level there are 439 districts (Kreise) and cities (kreisfreie Städte).]
The closed task forced (AGS) was in the city state Hamburg, this state has its own constitution. The task force made a great job all over Germany and other countries.... The Hamburg senat decided that the task forced got closed. It wasn't a desicion from the German parlaiment. In other states like mine North Rhine Westphalia the secret service (Verfassungsschutz) is "observing" Scientology and collecting crimes etc. about Scientology. They do their great work since lots of years and in my state is a Sektenberatungsstelle (sect advice center). The state North Rhine Westphalia finance a part of this advice center and the advice center works against Scientology too. We have more institutions "against" Scientology here in Germany.

But the Hamburg task force was something very special in Germany, because they were specialised on the Scientology topic.


...and now Germany hasn't invited Marty, the state Hamburg has invited him. Imo it is a big difference.
 

Feral

Rogue male
Also, her office was "right sized" as part of budget austerity measures. The idea that it was decided Scientology in Germany is no longer a threat is plain dumb.

Are you stalking me Blip?

So what is your contestation? That despite the fact Scientology is a National threat they downsized the office dealing with it to one staff.....hmm?

Doesn't seem likely, does it my creepy little friend?

They're not KIWIS you know.

I read it was downsized (OCMB initially reported closed here) after the census results were discussed and put the number of Scios between 5 and 6,000 the CofS was found to be utterly inconsequential to National security.The cult was claiming 30,000 members and I think between that and it's similarity to the Third Reich the Germans were getting a little edgy. If someone had told me that at the time they would have saved me hours of IAS regging and tens of thousands of dollars.

Can I find the exact link where the reason for downsizing was given? No. Not yet, it might've even been a third party opinion, maybe I'll remember where I read it and maybe someone will rescue me.

The Wiki is here.

You posted an old link to the proposal to ban Scn. wasn't that plan found to be in violation of international treaties or human rights? Something about the separation of church and state became a stumbling block I think. Reminds me of Aaron Saxtons plans. It's also as relevant to this conversation as the spots on trains.
 
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dianaclass8

Silver Meritorious Patron
LOL! Smilla you are so funny sometimes! I love the picture, is that Nosferatu?

The Cof$ and Marty will see you as being a Squirrel, due to your approval of CBR's tech. Neither of them will ever see you as being a 'proper' Scientologist. At best, Marty will see as being a useful idiot. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot

11131466_gal.jpg



 

Infinite

Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
Are you stalking me Blip?

So what is your contestation? That despite the fact Scientology is a National threat they downsized the office dealing with it to one staff.....hmm?

Doesn't seem likely, does it my creepy little friend?

They're not KIWIS you know.

More with the ad homs, Feral. Wattaguy.

I read it was downsized (OCMB initially reported closed here) after the census results were discussed and put the number of Scios between 5 and 6,000 the CofS was found to be utterly inconsequential to National security.The cult was claiming 30,000 members and I think between that and it's similarity to the Third Reich the Germans were getting a little edgy. If someone had told me that at the time they would have saved me hours of IAS regging and tens of thousands of dollars.

Can I find the exact link where the reason for downsizing was given? No. Not yet, it might've even been a third party opinion, maybe I'll remember where I read it and maybe someone will rescue me.

The Wiki is here.

You posted an old link to the proposal to ban Scn. wasn't that plan found to be in violation of international treaties or human rights? Something about the separation of church and state became a stumbling block I think. Reminds me of Aaron Saxtons plans. It's also as relevant to this conversation as the spots on trains.

Ursula Caberta said Europe was "under attack" from Scientology. She has not moderated that statement. Her comments were carried in a leaked US State Department memo suggesting Germany needed to soften its stance on this issue. Scientolology is not a religion in Germany, thus, separation from state and relgion does not apply in this case. It would seem the cult is generating some government interference in the domestic matters of a foreign sovereign state. Looks like a left over machination from the cult's 1997 actions. Your position appears to be that, now, four years later, Scientology is no longer a threat. Doesn't add up.
 

lotus

stubborn rebel sheep!
Very appropiate for your original posting...I love your black sense of humor...LOL!:happydance:

I do to
Black humour is often the only way to deal with some issues, becauswe there is no other way to adress black sense of human rights of some people and their gross lies.

So
back to the serious subjet of this thread
here is my comment


Marty or DM handling germany????


greed.jpg
 

Mystic

Crusader
Plan for Germany and the Beach Clam:

Make it appear that the Beach Clam "handled" Germany, appear such to Mr. David Miscavige, great leader of the Church of Scientology.

("Beach Clam" is, of course, Marty. Who I think handles a garden hose very well. Handling Germany, :hysterical:)
 

Feral

Rogue male
More with the ad homs, Feral. Wattaguy.

Considering about half your posts of the last week have consisted of trolling me on behalf of the tinfoilers who have been left out of the loop regarding what's been happening since the Inquiry I think I'm entitled to say what I see.

Stalking is creepy Blip.
 
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