Marty's latest blog: David Miscavige Killed Lisa McPherson

anonomog

Gold Meritorious Patron
http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2012/04/05/david-miscavige-killed-lisa-mcpherson/



Mike Rinder wrote the following to clarify some comments he made about Lisa McPherson in his Village Voice interview. I then wrote my own post below that which expands upon Mike’s and connects some dots and which lead to the carefully chosen words that constitute the title of this article.

Mike’s Post:

I left some in mystery concerning Lisa McPherson. I told Tony Ortega that I had not known Miscavige had C/Sed her to attest to Clear (just a couple of months before she became psychotic) until after I had left the Sea Org, in spite of working on the criminal and civil case for 4 years. This has led to a number of questions and speculation about the significance of this.

I did not explain my view that it was not that his squirrel C/Sing killed her (and it WAS squirrel – Lisa McPherson was certainly nowhere approaching the state of Clear), it was the fact that Miscavige himself had been personally involved in supervising her case. That set in motion a chain of catastrophic decisions based on the concern that “to not handle her would be regarded as an effort to make COB wrong.”

So, when Lisa was brought to the Fort Harrison and in violation of VERY specific directives never to have a Type III at Flag, and in violation of the C/S Series, the Snr CS FSO, Alain Kartuzinski went and personally visited Lisa to try to calm her down and reassure her that he would ensure everything was OK. I could never understand his blatant violation of the CS Series and the Introspection Rundown references, nor the Base Flag Orders from LRH. From there, the unusual solutions and handlings snowballed as the unusual solutions kept adding to the craziness – she should not have been there, but then they tried to deliver a non-standard “Introspection Rundown” (squirreled in MANY ways) and as it was not producing any result, they kept on hoping. Lisa should have been in some location where she could have gotten non-invasive help with medical practitioners available (she DID die of a pulmonary embolism – it happens all the time in hospitals with doctors on call – so it is not certain that medical attention would have saved her life, but there is a better chance of it than in a hotel room at the Fort Harrison with people terrified of calling in a doctor for fear of consequences).

But the craziness started with Alain – who had been being berated by Miscavige for being “incompetent” for not having “correctly CSed Lisa” and so Miscavige had “stepped in to put things right” and ordered that she attest to Clear. A month or so later she underwent her FIRST Introspection Rundown at Flag with some apparent success. That too was a factor in Alain’s decisionmaking.

I do not believe any of the people who were involved with Lisa McPherson were doing anything other than trying to help her. I do think the stupid decisions that were made stemmed primarily from Miscavige’s involvement in her case earlier, setting the stage for unusual, out tech “solutions” that were implemented. Things I never understood, until I realized afterwards what had happened.

Marty’s post:

The following did not become clear to me until I had spent another twelve years handling “Clear” case sort outs both in and outside the church. In the early 2000’s I handled a number of cases who had some level of uncertainty as to their own achievement of the state of Clear. If one understands the St Hill Special Briefing Course (SHSBC) and one understands further L Ron Hubbard clarifications and developments with respect to the state of Clear after the SHSBC (Dianetic Clear Special Intensive – DCSI – and Clear Certainty Rundown – CCRD), there is no more simple cycle of action in the universe than sorting out whether an individual is Clear or not. Because I was working on little else than the recovery and Bridge progress of Tom Cruise and the Lisa McPherson civil cases between 2001 and 2004 when I left the church of Scientology, I had zero exposure to what Miscavige was busily implanting across the Scientology world: the utter complication of Clear certainty procedure for the purposes of caving people in and controlling the resulting wreckage to extract money. That became, for a lack of a better word, crystal clear only after I left and dealt with a number of people who had been subjected to Miscavige’s Black Dianetics Clear Invalidation rundown – BDCI.

Scientology is predicated upon infinity logic, which holds that absolutes are unobtainable. The closest thing to an absolute in Scientology in my view is the state of Clear. L Ron Hubbard notes in the CCRD material that the meter phenomena that accompanies the statement of the state by a Clear is UNMISTAKABLE. And anyone who has audited it honestly can attest that is about the most absolutely accurate thing L Ron Hubbard ever wrote.

About the second most absolute datum that Hubbard ever laid down was that ONE DOES NOT AUDIT A CLEAR ON DIANETICS OF ANY KIND. If one truly understands the technology, the mind, and theta (spiritual elan vital) one knows that to violate that injunction could have devastatingly destructive implications for the spiritual and mental well-being of the recipient.

All of this is all the more acute for a public who is being handled by the very top, cream of the crop “A” team at the Mecca of Technical Perfection (Flag). Put that statement on steroids when the Pope himself is directly controlling every aspect of it. The point being, in the mind of the public there is no question that this is the very last resort. That mindset is, “if I am fucked up after this, then I am fucked up for good, forever.”

Lisa Mcpherson was fed the Clear cognition (that realization that – given it is accompanied by the UNMISTAKABLE meter phenomena mentioned above – signifies a person has honestly made it to Clear) many years before David Miscavige bypassed the entire international tech hierarchy to personally write a lengthy C/S directly to Lisa. Anybody knows that when a clear cog feeding occurs (and the pc is extremely obsessed with obtaining the culturual status that comes with being declared Clear), C/Ses and and auditors have got to be extremely competent and wise in navigating the individual to the actual accomplishment of the state of Clear. The Miscavige C/S informed Lisa McPherson in essence that every other C/S and every other auditor she’d dealt with for the past ten years was criminal and out tech and only he, David Miscavige the Pope himself, understood that she in fact was Clear.

Not surprisingly, within weeks Lisa had a psychotic break and was at the Fort Harrison receiving an Introspection Rundown in the summer of 1995. I say not surprisingly, since Lisa had to know something was very not right – the apex of the spiritual freedom she sought for years turned out to be the same old same whatever had been going with her mind all along. With an Introspection Rundown administered by Flag technical staff – without Miscavige micro-managed intervention – Lisa came out of it and began to live life and produce fairly well for a while.

Until, David Miscavige imposed a months long onslaught of desperate, out-tech auditing programs. Those programs were enforced by his unquestioning, and all-powerful, RTC representative at the Flag Land base. Lisa’s auditor was the Snr C/S Flag (Alain Kartusinski), and so again, there was no question in her mind that her mind was in the hands of those who were her last resort. Lisa received months of aggressive Miscavige C/S’s most dealing with evil purposes and heavy listing – violating the C/S Series injunction against swinging for the fences (going for home runs rather than working on a gradient, the latter being most important particularly with an over-restimulated case). Miscavige enforced False Purpose Rundown and even Expanded Dianetics, and to top it off listing on top of listing. And all the while Lisa was left to struggle through it thinking, “this is what I spent my entire adult life pursuing, Clear.”

That Lisa McPherson went insane during this ordeal should be no surprise to tech trained people. Her auditor, Alain, with zero control over this programming and C/Sing, had been reduced to propitiating to Lisa to keep her in affinity with him as auditor. He spent more time out of session commiserating with her than in session auditing her.

And there is the context in which to evaluate Mike’s mention above that there was no introspection rundown ever delivered to Lisa McPherson during her second, and final, tragic psychotic break. It was the desperate leading the desperate. To complicate matters, the RTC Representative ordered that Lisa be held on the Flag Land Base, based on precedent set by Miscavige having ordered earlier Flag publics who had had psychotic breaks to be similarly held, and to be directly supervised by the RTC Represenative. To complicate matters further, the RTC Representative was in a complete prison cell of Miscavige’s own construction. To report to Miscavige that his C/Sing and programming had resulted in a psychotic break would have been suicide for her and worse. So, now everyone involved in the handling of Lisa’s psychotic break were simply hoping she’d come out of it with doting care and love – and all the while trying to keep the episode quiet. To complicate matters even further, when it was apparent that Lisa was deteriorating physically the RTC representative and Alain in their horrific fear of Miscavige vengeance, began rationalizing and justifying that Lisa was “calming down.” And Lisa wound up calming down all right, she calmed down to death.

L Ron Hubbard was not joking around in the fifties when he warned about the specter of the potential use of Black Dianetics.

With 20/20 hindsight it is becoming more clear to me now.

Lisa McPherson was killed at the Flag Land Base.

David Miscavige killed Lisa McPherson.

David Miscavige has been doing little else since than attempting to prove himself right by imposing on all Scientologists that which he already imposed on Lisa McPherson.

- Marty Rathbun
 

Veda

Sponsor
Just a brief breath of fresh air before the intra-Hubbardite war continues...


An excerpt from the 1991 David Mayo article, and a link to the complete article: http://www.ivymag.org/iv-01-02.html

Clear

"It was PR and marketing considerations that led Hubbard to decide that certain people were 'clear' at a certain point...

"[Clear] is not an attainable state (at least given our present level of technology)."
 

SpecialFrog

Silver Meritorious Patron
Yep, PEs kill people in hospitals all the time, particularly when the hospital immobilizes, starves and dehydrates their patients.

PEs are of course entirely asymptomatic and the fact that people with a PE tend to have chest pains and / or shortness of breath is purely coincidental and would be ignored by trained medical staff anyway.
 

Infinite

Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
..

copy pasta - didn't see new thread.

..

I see the crims over at the M&M Show have elaborated on the Lisa McPherson tragedy. Yep, you guessed it, its *all* David Miscagive's fault, and, not only that, the tech works, Clear exists as a verifiable state thanks to the wonderous ability of none other than L Ron Hubbard, and Marty can help you realise it . . . yadda yadda yadda. Its a digusting promotion of Scientology tech leveraged off the death of an innocent.

What's missing from this slick attempt at diversion, obfuscation, and L Ron Hubbard turd polishing are the nuts and bolts of how Rathbun and Rinder managed to secure a not guilty verdict in the criminal case. Where are the details on how the unfortunate coroner was handled, what other witness tampering was carried out, which police offers were paid off, which Scientologists were hidden from the view of authorities, what are the details of the intel capers carried out on the court officials, what evidence was destroyed, altered and manufactured? The list of what is *not* being provided goes on. And, when they feel capable of taking responsibility for their actions in the death of Lisa, how about they do the same in relation to Robert Vaughn Young, Bob Minton, Shawn Lonsdale, Dennis Erlich, Arnaldo Lerma and all the other people they have fucked over.
 

Veda

Sponsor
Lisa McPherson could have been sent to the nearest hospital after those 17 days on the Introspection Rundown, and she might have lived, but, because of Scientology's phobia on psychiatry, she was sent to a distant hospital, where she was to be treated by a Scientology doctor.


In 1966, Hubbard announced his confidential plan - called 'Project Psychiatry':

"This is Project Psychiatry. We will remove them."

http://www.xenu.net/archive/go/projpsyc/projpsyc.htm


In LRH Executive letter of 24 November 1968, Hubbard asserted his plan to take over both "mental healing" and "political guidance." The implication is that, since, according to Hubbard, psychiatrists, essentially, run the world, by taking over psychiatry one becomes the new boss of the world:

"We're going to take over the field of mental hospitals and political guidance and the whole field of mental healing."

Then, from 'Confidential Intelligence Actions - Covert Intelligence Data Collection' of 2 December 1969:

"Our total victory wil come when we run his organizations, perform his functions, and obtain his financing and appropriations."


Here a brief excerpt from the 1976 edition of the 'Red Volumes'. It's an HCOB from January 1974. Quoted material in red.

THE TECHNICAL BREAKTHROUGH OF 1973!
THE INTROSPECTION RD​

I have made a technical breakthrough which possibly ranks with the major discoveries of the twentieth century. It is certainly the greatest achievement of 1973 and is now being released after a final write-up of the research. It is called the Introspection Rundown.

....

THIS MEANS THE LAST REASON TO HAVE PSYCHIATRY AROUND IS GONE.


[Then there are the steps of the RD, and the HCOB ends with...]

THIS PLANET IS OURS.


HCO BULLETIN OF 26 AUGUST 1982

PAIN AND SEX
[This complete HCOB can be located easily for those curious. The gist of it - and other related HCOBs - is that ancient whole track psychiatrists are responsible for just about everything bad in the universe, including - per this HCOB - Pain and Sex.]

Despite the false data of Freud, psychologists, psychiatrists and other criminals...


As any veteran Scientologist knows, Hubbard has stated that Scientology already owns the planet Earth, and it's just a matter of following his instructions for that ownership to be successfully established for the not yet aware "wogs."

In other words, Scientology has been nuts for a long time.

Marty&Mike are primarily concerned with protecting "L. Ron Hubbard's good name," which includes protecting L. Ron Hubbard's Scientology's reputation. As long as that remains their "mission," their honesty will be in doubt.
 

WildKat

Gold Meritorious Patron
Infinite wrote:
I see the crims over at the M&M Show have elaborated on the Lisa McPherson tragedy. Yep, you guessed it, its *all* David Miscagive's fault, and, not only that, the tech works, Clear exists as a verifiable state thanks to the wonderous ability of none other than L Ron Hubbard, and Marty can help you realise it . . . yadda yadda yadda. Its a digusting promotion of Scientology tech leveraged off the death of an innocent.

What's missing from this slick attempt at diversion, obfuscation, and L Ron Hubbard turd polishing are the nuts and bolts of how Rathbun and Rinder managed to secure a not guilty verdict in the criminal case. Where are the details on how the unfortunate coroner was handled, what other witness tampering was carried out, which police offers were paid off, which Scientologists were hidden from the view of authorities, what are the details of the intel capers carried out on the court officials, what evidence was destroyed, altered and manufactured? The list of what is *not* being provided goes on. And, when they feel capable of taking responsibility for their actions in the death of Lisa, how about they do the same in relation to Robert Vaughn Young, Bob Minton, Shawn Lonsdale, Dennis Erlich, Arnaldo Lerma and all the other people they have fucked over.
[end quote]

Thank you for this. Marty still doesn't take responsibility for his role in the criminal organization. He wants people to believe it was all Miscavige.
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
"Lisa McPherson was killed at the Flag Land Base."

I've seen mention elsewhere that she died at the base and not in the van. Is this an admission by Marty of that fact? (I don't know where she died.)

Paul
 

anonomog

Gold Meritorious Patron
Please could someone explain to me why "one does not audit a clear on dianetics"?
And why is/was it not allowed to have an introspection rundown at Flag?


"About the second most absolute datum that Hubbard ever laid down was that ONE DOES NOT AUDIT A CLEAR ON DIANETICS OF ANY KIND. If one truly understands the technology, the mind, and theta (spiritual elan vital) one knows that to violate that injunction could have devastatingly destructive implications for the spiritual and mental well-being of the recipient."

I don't want to start a tech mud-sling debate but would like to understand why those two points have any relevance in the scheme of things.
 

Jquepublic

Silver Meritorious Patron
Please could someone explain to me why "one does not audit a clear on dianetics"?
And why is/was it not allowed to have an introspection rundown at Flag?


"About the second most absolute datum that Hubbard ever laid down was that ONE DOES NOT AUDIT A CLEAR ON DIANETICS OF ANY KIND. If one truly understands the technology, the mind, and theta (spiritual elan vital) one knows that to violate that injunction could have devastatingly destructive implications for the spiritual and mental well-being of the recipient."

I don't want to start a tech mud-sling debate but would like to understand why those two points have any relevance in the scheme of things.

In a nutshell, A Clear is defined as a person who no longer has his or her reactive mind. Dianetics addresses moments of pain and unconsciousness that are stored in the reactive mind. Running a Clear on Dianetics would in theory key in other unhandled parts of the person's case. Clears are considered "at risk" because the theory is that the OT III case is sitting there unbuffered waiting to trounce on the pc, and you're probably already familiar with the theories on what happens when the OT III case is "restimulated" so I won't go on about that.

Re: the Introspection RD, there is a policy (not sure of its origination but I know it exists) that anyone considered Type 3 is not to be allowed on base at Flag because it's a security risk. Anyone with a former suicide attempt, for example, has to get through either OT III or OT IV before they are allowed to do services at FSO because at that point they're no longer considered a security risk.

Edit: Sorry for repeatedly using the word theory! >.<
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
Anyone with a former suicide attempt, for example, has to get through either OT III or OT IV before they are allowed to do services at FSO because at that point they're no longer considered a security risk.

Considering that many people have suicided after OT3/4, that's a silly policy!

Paul
 

anonomog

Gold Meritorious Patron
In a nutshell, A Clear is defined as a person who no longer has his or her reactive mind. Dianetics addresses moments of pain and unconsciousness that are stored in the reactive mind. Running a Clear on Dianetics would in theory key in other unhandled parts of the person's case. Clears are considered "at risk" because the theory is that the OT III case is sitting there unbuffered waiting to trounce on the pc, and you're probably already familiar with the theories on what happens when the OT III case is "restimulated" so I won't go on about that.

Re: the Introspection RD, there is a policy (not sure of its origination but I know it exists) that anyone considered Type 3 is not to be allowed on base at Flag because it's a security risk. Anyone with a former suicide attempt, for example, has to get through either OT III or OT IV before they are allowed to do services at FSO because at that point they're no longer considered a security risk.

Edit: Sorry for repeatedly using the word theory! >.<

Thank you!

From Mike Rinder's post:
So, when Lisa was brought to the Fort Harrison and in violation of VERY specific directives never to have a Type III at Flag, and in violation of the C/S Series, the Snr CS FSO, Alain Kartuzinski went and personally visited Lisa to try to calm her down and reassure her that he would ensure everything was OK. I could never understand his blatant violation of the CS Series and the Introspection Rundown references, nor the Base Flag Orders from LRH.

My bold

Hmmm.

So a woman died and he is horrified because:

People disobeyed Hubbard's orders and brought a Type III to Flag and thus brought very bad PR onto Flag.

Someone showed human kindness and wanted to comfort and help Lisa violating instructions written by a man who imprisoned children in chainlockers.

He really needs to get his priorities right.

Then the Clear thing:
Mike Rinder wrote:
I did not explain my view that it was not that his squirrel C/Sing killed her (and it WAS squirrel – Lisa McPherson was certainly nowhere approaching the state of Clear), it was the fact that Miscavige himself had been personally involved in supervising her case.

If Lisa wasn't clear then running Dianetics on her wouldn't have been dangerous?

Marty wrote:
Lisa Mcpherson was fed the Clear cognition (that realization that – given it is accompanied by the UNMISTAKABLE meter phenomena mentioned above – signifies a person has honestly made it to Clear) many years before David Miscavige bypassed the entire international tech hierarchy to personally write a lengthy C/S directly to Lisa.

But she was clear!

...round and round she goes where she stops nobody knows...
 

Captain Koolaid

Patron Meritorious
Hubbard didn't mince words when he described the handling of so-called Type III personas: Sometimes they cannot be kept alive. So Lisa was clearly too far gone for the tech to have any effect on her, which means nothing could save her life.

But it's all Miscavige's fault because he didn't follow Hubbard's instructions - this is just sick, IMO, but not surprising that the M&Ms will twist this to make it fit into their warped reality. They'vew got sooo much confront, right?

BTW, the state of Clear does not exist.
 

Veda

Sponsor
Please could someone explain to me why "one does not audit a clear on dianetics"?
And why is/was it not allowed to have an introspection rundown at Flag?


"About the second most absolute datum that Hubbard ever laid down was that ONE DOES NOT AUDIT A CLEAR ON DIANETICS OF ANY KIND. If one truly understands the technology, the mind, and theta (spiritual elan vital) one knows that to violate that injunction could have devastatingly destructive implications for the spiritual and mental well-being of the recipient."

I don't want to start a tech mud-sling debate but would like to understand why those two points have any relevance in the scheme of things.

Re. Dianetics, Clears, etc., the link to the 1991 David Mayo article may be helpful - See post #2 on this thread.

People will have opinions, now, but the "OTs," then (1970s), as far as I could see, never seriously disagreed with Hubbard's insistence that, if having somatics, etc., "OTs need Dianetics."

Some didn't like it but, then again, after a dozen or so Dianetic sessions, after the experience of the novelty of "going whole track," etc. wore off, anyone might become tired of Dianetics.

Even as a new Scientologist, being audited on Dianetics (R3R), I realized that it's only pictures, and pictures could be any one's pictures (so I thought as a newbie Scientologist), one's own, an entities, the "GE," etc.

I, as a newbie Scientologist - in the 1970s "before Dianetic Clear" era - had read 'History of Man', and had studied the diagram of the various time tracks that - together - were supposed to be the time track of a composite human body+GE+thetan+entities - a human being - so anyone, including "OTs," might have become similarly bored with Dianetics, or disinterested, at which point the person would be examined for what was wrong with him or her that made him or her not want wonderful Dianetics.

Until around 1979.

From 1968ish to 1979ish, Hubbard had insisted that, if an OT had somatics, etc., that he needed Dianetics. This was repeatedly emphasized by Hubbard. Around 1979, Hubbard announced that to audit a Clear (or OT) on Dianetics was "deadly."

So, for about ten years, apparently, Clears and OTs were being killed by Dianetics in Scientology, per Hubbard's instructions. :unsure:

Why the change? Most fundamentally, because Hubbard was the Boss, the Guru, whose Hubbard Guidance was leading Mankind out of the Labyrinth to Total Freedom and Total Power, etc., and HE changed his mind about it. And Scientologists, like ducklings following a mother duck, followed along.

Added to this, in 1978/79, Hubbard decided that "keyed out Clear is Clear," and that Dianetic Clears should not do PP, R6ew, and CC.

In 1970, Hubbard had written of Dianetic Clear:

"Only about 2 percent actually go clear on Dianetics. A Dianetic Clear as any other Dianetic PC now goes up through the Grades of Scientology and on to the proper Clearing Course. The Dianetic Clear of Book 1 was clear of somatics. The Book 1 definition is correct. This is the end phenomena of Dianetics as per the Classification Chart and Book 1."

A Clear of somatics Clear!

And don't forget those (actual) GPM Clears from the early 1960s, with "one GPM Clears" and "two GPM Clears" and "three GPM Clears," and, I think, Hubbard was supposed to have made "5 GPM Clear."

And then - if I recall correctly - there was the lecture, 'The Story of Dianetics of Scientology', where Hubbard stated that he had made the first Dianetic Clears in 1947, and that these were Theta Clears. At the time of that lecture, Book 1 Clears were not regarded as being as Clear as the Clears then being produced. They were said to have been Theta Clears (stably outside the body), but later became (1970) Somatic Clears, but then with keyed out Clear being redefined as Clear (1978), and hundreds of Scientologists deciding they had "gone Dianetic Clear in 1947 after having been audited by Ron," and going "up lines" with checkbooks in hand, they became acceptable as Clears somehow...

And it goes on and on...

Hubbard left Scientologists with a whole lot of loose-ends, each tightly shrink-wrapped in cellophane as "LRH datums."

This can become perplexing to them, IF they omit the rest of the "Tech" left to them by Hubbard. It's really the senior Tech of Scientology, and can be found in this booklet http://warrior.xenu.ca/Brainwashing-front.jpg, and it overrides all the loose-ends, leaving a Scientologist will a contented sense of total certainty.

Turns out that the loose-ends are just a medium, used as a means to an end. Hubbard's system of mental-healing only needs to "work" up to a point, since it was only a front and a medium, or means, for something else.

That something else was inadvertently revealed in his 1938 'Excalibur' letter and in his 1946 'Affirmations':

"I have high hopes of smashing my name into history... [so] that it will take a legendary form... That goal is the real goal as far as I am concerned."

"Your psychology is advanced and true and wonderful. It hypnotizes people. It predicts their emotions, for you are their ruler."

What's happened, with outside the CofS Scientology, is that part of the Tech has been "dropped out," as a result of people leaving organized Scientology and wandering off into the "wog" world. Still, some manage to hold on to their certainty, and their identity as Scientologists, for a long time, despite having wandered off the reservation, so to speak. Yet, others quickly snap out of the Scio-trance.

Those who continue to follow mother duck Hubbard, faithfully, would never consider the possibility that Hubbard was ego and money motivated - that Hubbard was doing a major money-getting operation in the late 1970s, and, so as to build a war chest for the establishment and preservation of his monuments to himself projects, etc., had conveniently "discovered" that there were oodles and oodles of Dianetic Clears, Clears who suddenly needed to exit Missions, and "get up lines" (where Hubbard had immediate access to the money), and that this was part of that money-getting operation.

Of course the "OTs" still had somatics, so presto, here's "NOTs!"

Which would mean, incidentally, that Hubbard didn't take the idea of "Clear" as seriously as he meant Scientologists to take it. It was just another cynical means to an end. Yet, since Hubbard, being viewed as the Source of Clears, was VERY important to Hubbard, he did, for the wrong reasons, take "Clear" very seriously.

What a mess. :eyeroll:

Hope this rambling post does some good. :)
 

anonomog

Gold Meritorious Patron
Thank you Veda. It is very helpful. :)

From 1968ish to 1979ish, Hubbard had insisted that, if an OT had somatics, etc., that he needed Dianetics. This was repeatedly emphasized by Hubbard. Around 1979, Hubbard announced that to audit a Clear (or OT) on Dianetics was "deadly."

So, for about ten years, apparently, Clears and OTs were being killed by Dianetics in Scientology, per Hubbard's instructions.

:dieslaughing:

Maybe Hubbard should have just renamed it Die-n-Ethics to try and avoid a repeat of the great dying of the '70's.
 

WildKat

Gold Meritorious Patron
What a mess. :eyeroll:
Hope this rambling post does some good. :)

What a mess indeed!

No wonder Scientologists are SO F****D UP!

Mental Mind F**k Extraordinaire!

(Trying not to use bad language, but there's just no other descriptive terms!) :duh:
 

Stephanie

Patron with Honors
Yep, PEs kill people in hospitals all the time, particularly when the hospital immobilizes, starves and dehydrates their patients.

PEs are of course entirely asymptomatic and the fact that people with a PE tend to have chest pains and / or shortness of breath is purely coincidental and would be ignored by trained medical staff anyway.

What is a PE? thx
 

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
Thank you!

From Mike Rinder's post:


My bold

Hmmm.

So a woman died and he is horrified because:

People disobeyed Hubbard's orders and brought a Type III to Flag and thus brought very bad PR onto Flag.

Someone showed human kindness and wanted to comfort and help Lisa violating instructions written by a man who imprisoned children in chainlockers.

He really needs to get his priorities right.

The horror of watching these two idiots just blethering on when they lack the self awareness to even realize how fucking grotesque they sound.

A woman died in their care, died on their watch. One of the 'scientologists" they claim to care so much about and the only thing that seems to piss them off is that she was type 3 and should not have been there. That and the fact that they busted their collective asses to make sure the truth would never be known.

Somebody will have to explain to me, again, why these two are marginally better than used toilet paper.
 
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