Marty's latest blog: David Miscavige Killed Lisa McPherson

Gadfly

Crusader
Does anyone have a precise date for this video? I think it's from about 10 or 12 years ago?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSy-y-ylPZI

Joan Wood, the medical examiner, was ultimately "handled" by Scientology's dirty tricks dept.

My god, watching Rinder SQUIRM while carefully organizing his LIES, makes me FUCKING SICK!

Rinder's behavior is standard and typical Scientology, exact LRH-trained DECEITFUL behavior.

Until Rinder and his twin asswipe Rathboner come clean, and probably even AFTER THAT, they will both remain MAJOR SCUM in my book.

Oh, and Heber is a real fucking Class-A jerk too. These (Scientology) people will someday get what they deserve - no matter how their fanatical twisted minds imagine themselves to be "doing the right thing to save the planet".

Heber's pretended "righteous indignation" would be funny if it were so disgusting.

These OSA-trained scum practice endless intentional deception, noisy attack tactics and misdirection. :puke2:
 

phénix

Patron with Honors
I agree, auditing can drive a person insane. The result of the practise is to extract huge amounts of cash by distracting a person from the fraud so thoroughly that they end up sitting alone huddled over a re-boxed 19th century wheatstone bridge speaking to the spiritual debris of aliens brought to Earth by galactic rulah Xenu 75 million years ago and then blown up in volcanoes that didn't even exist at that time. Even before a person commences their OT levels, there are hours and hours and hours spent in an hypnotic-like trance state manufacturing make-believe stories about past lives which are reinforced by the auditor (even if they know they aren't true) and kept "locked-in" by strictly enforced policy on not being able to discuss these things with anyone - not even family and loved ones. A perfectly rational, intelligent yet vulnerable person quickly learns to obey without question starting with the TRs, and is gradually inculcated with all
manner of nonsense until their cognitive functioning is replaced with Scientology
automatism. Its even worse for staff. Most people don't get that far down the track
but for the ardent believers, like Lisa, they are already half-way to insanity before
they get to "Clear". It doesn't take much to push someone off the edge when they
are in that state. Fortunately, for those that survive, its only temporary and begins
to dwindle once they escape
.

I think of it as being akin to, say, a heroin addiction. There are some majorly
enjoyable times leading up to that barely indistinguishable moment when dabbling
turns to addiction. Once that line is crossed, old friends (and often family) have
been replaced and the previous life has become subsumed into an apparently
endless quest to get the next buzz. Its not until the addict comes to their senses
(or finds a replacement) in their own good time that recovery can commence. Some
people can actually function quite well with the addiction provided they have the
resources. For the less fortunate, its often not actually the drug which kills them, its
the lifestyle. Living with fellow addicts and drug dealers on a day-to-day basis is
dangerous. An addict can never be sure they're getting "the good stuff". When you
are ripped off and/or when "shit happens", as it inevitably does when in that milieu,
the consequences can be severe. There's no one to turn to unless you want to go
clean. Even if you do want to go clean, there are always those around you who will
drag you back in. Or just kill you.

It's good to hear that :)
Hope you are right and it will eventually all vanish for me, all that insanity...
I feel that's what's been happening for me, since I left...but it's really strange how blurry that time period is
I remember when I got out of the SO I was so messed up I couldn't just sit down and think, I had to be doing something ALL the time, I was on the edge. I just kept busy for years unable to think, and got high all the time...I remember speaking to myself so as to get the scn thoughts out of me..roughest time in my life

So yes scn can drive people nuts as far as I'm concerned!!!!
I think a step forward is to realize that it's not you that's crazy, it's the mindset you we in...though of couse I wasn't perfect when I got in
 

phénix

Patron with Honors
My god, watching Rinder SQUIRM while carefully organizing his LIES, makes me FUCKING SICK!

Rinder's behavior is standard and typical Scientology, exact LRH-trained DECEITFUL behavior.

Until Rinder and his twin asswipe Rathboner come clean, and probably even AFTER THAT, they will both remain MAJOR SCUM in my book.

Oh, and Heber is a real fucking Class-A jerk too. These (Scientology) people will someday get what they deserve - no matter how their fanatical twisted minds imagine themselves to be "doing the right thing to save the planet".

Heber's pretended "righteous indignation" would be funny if it were so disgusting.

These OSA-trained scum practice endless intentional deception, noisy attack tactics
and misdirection. :puke2:


But Rinder seems to be on the right path, thinking and criticizing...
He can't just drop the whole scn system at once, it's all his life!!!
Plus he looks a bit less impregnated than Rathbun, he uses less scn words...I might be wrong

I won't really judge Rinder that roughly, coz I know when I was in I wanted to work in OSA, you know for the action...so I think I might have come to do nasty things to others if "necessary", I was really into it....
 

Jquepublic

Silver Meritorious Patron
Just found this video for the first time, with Miscavige's version of events. OMG I cannot believe this story!! I know how Scn spins but jeezus. [video=youtube;yO9VV11V1kE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yO9VV11V1kE[/video]
 

Jquepublic

Silver Meritorious Patron
But Rinder seems to be on the right path, thinking and criticizing...
He can't just drop the whole scn system at once, it's all his life!!!
Plus he looks a bit less impregnated than Rathbun, he uses less scn words...I might be wrong

I won't really judge Rinder that roughly, coz I know when I was in I wanted to work in OSA, you know for the action...so I think I might have come to do nasty things to others if "necessary", I was really into it....

Well he realizes he was in a cult, at least. Problem there is he has a textbook "SP" in Miscavige so he can't see past that, and is attributing everything that was "wrong" to his actions and not to Hubbard policy.

But it's something, and hopefully he will peel off more layers as time goes on.
 

phénix

Patron with Honors
Well he realizes he was in a cult, at least. Problem there is he has a textbook "SP" in Miscavige so he can't see past that, and is attributing everything that was "wrong" to his actions and not to Hubbard policy.

But it's something, and hopefully he will peel off more layers as time goes on.

I completely agree, he focuses on DM. When I watched his last interview I was surprised he could realize those things and still believe in scn...well, I wasn,t really surprised, I know why..

I like the idea of layers
 

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
But Rinder seems to be on the right path, thinking and criticizing...
He can't just drop the whole scn system at once, it's all his life!!!
Plus he looks a bit less impregnated than Rathbun, he uses less scn words...I might be wrong

I won't really judge Rinder that roughly, coz I know when I was in I wanted to work in OSA, you know for the action...so I think I might have come to do nasty things to others if "necessary", I was really into it....

all at once?

He has been out for four years.

But leaving that aside - he has, to my knowledge (and I stand to be corrected) not evinced one iota of heartfelt regret at what was done to McPherson .

When he was in the CofS he was busy blaming HER, or "Life" or "it happens "

Now that he is out he is blaming Miscavige.

Anyone but poor old "brainwashed Mikey". It's not really his fault, he didn't know he was being an asswipe when he was in (and everyone excuses him cos, well, he was brainwashed) and he doesn;t realize now what an asswipe he was (and is still being) and he gets excused because - he's on the right path?

What next? Pol Pot was a deranged farmer who meant well?
 

phénix

Patron with Honors
all at once?

He has been out for four years.

But leaving that aside - he has, to my knowledge (and I stand to be corrected) not evinced one iota of heartfelt regret at what was done to McPherson .

When he was in the CofS he was busy blaming HER, or "Life" or "it happens "

Now that he is out he is blaming Miscavige.

Anyone but poor old "brainwashed Mikey". It's not really his fault, he didn't know he was being an asswipe when he was in (and everyone excuses him cos, well, he was brainwashed) and he doesn;t realize now what an asswipe he was (and is still being) and he gets excused because - he's on the right path?

What next? Pol Pot was a deranged farmer who meant well?

I'm not defending the guy, I'm just saying it takes time, 4 years is nothing compared to his life inside!! And even if he doesn't reject the whole of scientology, watching his videos helps me.
 

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation
But Rinder seems to be on the right path, thinking and criticizing...
He can't just drop the whole scn system at once, it's all his life!!!
Plus he looks a bit less impregnated than Rathbun, he uses less scn words...I might be wrong

I won't really judge Rinder that roughly, coz I know when I was in I wanted to work in OSA, you know for the action...so I think I might have come to do nasty things to others if "necessary", I was really into it....



:yes:

He made the classic mistake of leaving one cult and becoming a member of another one prior to decompressing ... and he has made agreements, plans and goals to save the tek (and get some justified revenge at the same time against COB) with his new cult which probably helps justify the absolute waste of the previous decades of his life and the loss of his 'still in' family.

I feel for Mike Rinder because he was born into the madness, it was not a choice and he seems to me to be a decent person that will probably remain culty because its all he knows.

I hope the new baby makes him sit back and really think about whether he should be dragging the new child into the nutter zone and with luck he'll decide not to, having already done that with his other children and eventually losing them as well as his parents and siblings.

He has lost more than most.

I wish him and his new family well.

What happened to Lisa was disgusting and of course he should come out and speak of her as a human being (instead of a 'type 3' irritant) that was abused by scientology staff and allowed to die unnecessarily while being bitten by cockroaches, but I won't be holding my breath. There must have been a few dozen SO members involved in the 'care' and the consequent cover up and that has enabled the guilt to be diluted for each one of them, including Mike and Marty.​
 

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
I'm not defending the guy, I'm just saying it takes time, 4 years is nothing compared to his life inside!! And even if he doesn't reject the whole of scientology, watching his videos helps me.

well I will say if it helps you - then that's good.

But I have to ask - and this is curiosity only not a dig or anything

When does he become accountable IN YOUR EYES? (not necessarily his) . When does the excusing him drop away?
 

Dunvegan

Patron
David Miscavage + the "MR's" + Death/Murder of Lisa McPherson + the Collusion of Individuals Involved in the Death and Cover-up = RICO Prosecution.

Takes the case beyond First Amendment protections...no, I'm serious. Have been so for quite a few years now:
Although some of the RICO predicate acts are extortion and blackmail, one of the most successful applications of the RICO laws has been the ability to indict or sanction individuals for their behavior and actions committed against witnesses and victims in alleged retaliation or retribution for cooperating with federal law enforcement or intelligence agencies.

Violations of the RICO laws can be alleged in civil lawsuit cases or for criminal charges. In these instances charges can be brought against individuals or corporations in retaliation for said individuals or corporations working with law enforcement.

Further, charges can also be brought against individuals or corporations who have sued or filed criminal charges against a defendant.

Anti-SLAPP (strategic lawsuit against public participation) laws can be applied in an attempt to curb alleged abuses of the legal system by individuals or corporations who utilize the courts as a weapon to retaliate against whistle blowers, victims, or to silence another's speech.

RICO could be alleged if it can be shown that lawyers and/or their clients conspired and collaborated to concoct fictitious legal complaints solely in retribution and retaliation for themselves having been brought before the courts.



 

Dunvegan

Patron
...of course, the first person to walk into the appropriate law enforcement agency and make a deal gets a considerable consideration...possibly even immunity on a RICO rap.

The whistle needs to be blown...so that the rest of the maltreated can blow.

 

phénix

Patron with Honors
well I will say if it helps you - then that's good.

But I have to ask - and this is curiosity only not a dig or anything

When does he become accountable IN YOUR EYES? (not necessarily his) . When does the excusing him drop away?

Well, on the Mc pherson case I'm not an expert, I don't know who really fucked up, but it would be the guys overseeing her case and deciding to lock her up etc...but even so, isn't that just a consequence of hubbard policy...I'm not saying people are not reponsible for anything, but I think the primary cause is scientology, it can fuck people up. Locking someone up is the result of hubbard's ideas...I think, but I might be wrong. Is there policy on that BTW?

So on that case what would be Rinder responsible of? Covering up? Coz he's no tech person, he took care of the "flaps"... And I agree that covering up is not right, for the family for example, but once again it's complicated coz to me it's the result of how scientology is....

My point is first I blame scientology as a whole. Coz I think that if I had been in OSA when I was in, I would have done stuff that hurt people. I believed it. I wrote KR's on other staff...
 
Well, on the Mc pherson case I'm not an expert, I don't know who really fucked up, but it would be the guys overseeing her case and deciding to lock her up etc...but even so, isn't that just a consequence of hubbard policy...I'm not saying people are not reponsible for anything, but I think the primary cause is scientology, it can fuck people up. Locking someone up is the result of hubbard's ideas...I think, but I might be wrong. Is there policy on that BTW?

So on that case what would be Rinder responsible of? Covering up? Coz he's no tech person, he took care of the "flaps"... And I agree that covering up is not right, for the family for example, but once again it's complicated coz to me it's the result of how scientology is....

My point is first I blame scientology as a whole. Coz I think that if I had been in OSA when I was in, I would have done stuff that hurt people. I believed it. I wrote KR's on other staff...


So your belief is: "they were just following policy".

:eyeroll:

The one thing a person can never do is evade personal responsibility for his own actions.


Mark A. Baker
 

phénix

Patron with Honors
So your belief is: "they were just following policy".

:eyeroll:

The one thing a person can never do is evade personal responsibility for his own actions.


Mark A. Baker

Is that all I said? No

I'm saying when you're indoctrinated you're lead to reg people, recruit them, KR them, etc....

I hated being screamed at, put on the decks, people ignoring me and looking at me like a piece of shit, being sec checked, not seeing my family, getting a non-enturb order, .....but that's how scn works

That's all I'm saying and I'm sure we agree.

Of course scientology has its share of assholes, I knew some.

I remember the security chief on my base, a fucking arrogant asshole. Always teaching lessons during staff meeting. A zealous guy. There were others....
I saw people treated like shit, and they of course could use some appology.

I don't know Rinder, he might be an asshole. I don't know all he's done. Of course he's responsible for what he did, but he was indoctrinated. Just trying to point that out when people say he's just an asshole that should appologize for all he's done.

What would I had do ne if I'd been in OSA? I don't know
 
Well, on the Mc pherson case I'm not an expert, I don't know who really fucked up, but it would be the guys overseeing her case and deciding to lock her up etc...but even so, isn't that just a consequence of hubbard policy...I'm not saying people are not reponsible for anything, but I think the primary cause is scientology, it can fuck people up. Locking someone up is the result of hubbard's ideas...I think, but I might be wrong. Is there policy on that BTW?

So on that case what would be Rinder responsible of? Covering up? Coz he's no tech person, he took care of the "flaps"... And I agree that covering up is not right, for the family for example, but once again it's complicated coz to me it's the result of how scientology is....

My point is first I blame scientology as a whole. Coz I think that if I had been in OSA when I was in, I would have done stuff that hurt people. I believed it. I wrote KR's on other staff...


Who should pay...go to jail...whatever...and when...if ever?
Justice should be done as soon as possible, or it might not be done at all. The crimes have already been done...Lisa McPherson has already died, justice is owed NOW, not after the world waits around to see if the perpertrators have become better people.

Another point is that it is hugely important that justice is SEEN to be done. People should have their arses dragged into court and every person involved should be there to have it decided whether or not each person is responsible, and to what degree. If one is held responsible and the others go home free, at least they will not let themselves be used like that again: they will think twice if they are ever asked to lock someone up. Right now they can all think of it that someone else is responsible for. Some...many? exes, may have done things they wish they hadn't. That is a really bad reason to offer for not arguing for immediate justice on the crimes committed at Scientology INC, IMO. It is just sanctioning abuse and crime.
 

Dunvegan

Patron
America needs to get serious about corporate crime.

And the death of Lisa McPherson is a corporate crime, with the cover-up calling RICO into play.

"Justice delayed is justice denied."
 

Infinite

Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
..

Ahhh, I get it now. Here's how it all *really* happened . . . see, Eli Lilly got together with some ex-FBI agents and the SP Times while in collusion with the German government and some Southern US "gold-ole-boy" mafia organisation planning on bringing gambling into Florida. Scientology fought back against these SPs by continuing to flourish and prosper. Truefax, honest.

[video]http://youtu.be/yO9VV11V1kE[/video]​

..

[video]http://youtu.be/cMgakAozEvI[/video]​
 

Sindy

Crusader
..

Ahhh, I get it now. Here's how it all *really* happened . . . see, Eli Lilly got together with some ex-FBI agents and the SP Times while in collusion with the German government and some Southern US "gold-ole-boy" mafia organisation planning on bringing gambling into Florida. Scientology fought back against these SPs by continuing to flourish and prosper. Truefax, honest.

[video]http://youtu.be/yO9VV11V1kE[/video]​

..

[video]http://youtu.be/cMgakAozEvI[/video]​

Oh my god. If I was at this event (please, God, tell me that I wasn't), I had no idea what he was talking about. I have no recollection of this.

I don't even understand why he would be broadly disseminating info about something that none of us were supposed to know anything about. This would have been "forwarding enemy line".

My heart bleeds. I cannot believe how unbelievably callous and arrogant he (and the audience) are being. What a smug little prick.

I am having a moment. :bigcry:
 
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