Caroline

Patron Meritorious
In What is Wrong with Scientology Rathbun provides a statement of Scientology and the Scientology Bridge as he understands and delivers it, and as he advocates for Independent Scientologists around the world.

According to Rathbun, Scientology Inc.'s tech is now "reversed in application and effect," meaning essentially that Scientologists under the control of David Miscavige are applying Hubbard's tech in ways that cause harmful, not beneficial effects on people.

Rathbun runs what he calls an "Underground Railroad" for Scientologists who are leaving the control of David Miscavige and "Scientology Inc." (Rathbun: The Tipping Point for Scientology, Inc.) Rathbun and the Indies sell and deliver Scientology to these people, to supposedly remedy the harm that they experienced under DM.

Rathbun said:
The purpose of this book is to share the knowledge we have gained on how Scientology has been used to harm people and how that harm has been satisfactorily remedied.

Rathbun, Mark 'Marty' (2012-06-24). What Is Wrong With Scientology?: Healing Through Understanding

I think this is a good issue to start with:

What specifically are you viewing as him squirreling? What he wrote about the lower levels, while reworded, wasn't offbeat or other practicy and was in keeping with the materials I've studied. As far as the OT levels, his presenting his theory that they're not to be taken literally is pretty much just that IMO - his theory. Ask 20 people to define God or what it means to be a Christian and you'll probably get 20 answers, so one man saying he views it as metaphor really doesn't constitute squirreling.

I'd like to engage in an analysis thread myself, looking forward to it.

Thanks. JQ. First, here's the definition:

Hubbard said:
SQUIRRELLING, 1. it means altering Scn and offbeat practices. It is a bad thing. (HCO PL 14 Feb 65) 2. squirrelling is not really different processes--it is careless, incomplete, messed up auditing procedure. (HCOB 15 Jan 70 II)

Hubbard, L. R. (1979). Dianetics and Scientology Technical Dictionary (Fifth printing 1979 ed.). Los Angeles: Church of Scientology of California.

Rathbun's "rewording" comes under the category of "verbal tech" which is an ethics offense. (Introduction to Scientology Ethics.) Verbal Tech is classified as a "Misdemeanor" but since so much of Rathbun's book is "verbal tech" the offense would undoubtedly be upgraded to a "Crime" or "High Crime."

Hubbard said:
Verbal Tech: This includes giving out data which is contrary to HCO Bulletins or Policy Letters, or obstructing their use or application, corrupting their intent, altering their content in any way, interpreting them verbally or otherwise for another, or pretending to quote them without showing the actual issue.

Hubbard, L. R. (1968). Introduction to Scientology Ethics. (2007 ed.) Los Angeles: Bridge Publications.

Rathbun also presents a theory in Chapter 1 about why verbal tech is okay, but this is just more squirreling, and blatant.

What you mentioned about Rathbun "presenting his theory that they're not to be taken literally" is a "Technical Degrade, which is a class of High Crime:"

Hubbard said:
Adding comments to checksheets or instructions labeling any material "background" or "not used now" or "old" or any similar action which will result in the student not knowing, using and applying the data in which he is being trained.

Hubbard, L. R. (1968). Introduction to Scientology Ethics. (2007 ed.) Los Angeles: Bridge Publications.

One effect of advocating a non-literal approach to the Xenu story, for example, is that it invalidates Hubbard's claims and statements about his OT 3 research. Scientology has been selling the literal story since Hubbard came up with it.

So to now say the Xenu story (and therefore the process and level of OT 3) shouldn't be taken literally is like admitting that Hubbard (and at least some people in his technical hierarchy) knowingly implanted or caused to be implanted, false memories in thousands of Scientologists over decades, but "never mind, that was then." To illustrate this sentiment more exactly, I'll repeat this excerpt from another thread:

Dan Koon said:
[Informal transcript: 3:26 - 4:50]

You know, LRH didn't really ever stop researching. And I think the Bridge sort of reflects his researches at the different stages of his life.

And what occurred after he passed away in 1986, was he left behind many orders on technical matters that had not been complied to, and they, those didn't really get complied to 'til in the nineties some time.

And some of the stuff still isn't done. So the Bridge has to be-- the grade chart-- the document has to be modified to reflect that.

So whether ah-- There's a discussion going on about different Bridges. I actually don't know too much about that. And it, it's not, ah for me it's not a particularly big issue.

[video=youtube;F3HRf40gobE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3HRf40gobE&feature=player_embedded[/video]
 

PirateAndBum

Gold Meritorious Patron
Indeed, how is one supposed to follow the procedures of OT III if the incident is imaginary? Marty hasn't quite covered that point.
 

Veda

Sponsor
I doubt very much that Marty Rathbun is telling his PCs, who he C/Ses to do OT 1,2,3,4,5,6,7, and 8, that Incident 2 is a metaphor, non-literal, etc.

That's what he wrote in his book, but his book is a "handling" of, not only an "ARC broken field" (consisting of non-active current or ex Scientologists, many of whom, nowadays, have heard about "Xenu" etc., but have never done OT 3), and of "wogs." Marty is especially concerned with people he views as "wog opinion leaders."

The "metaphor" angle (and similar angles) re. the "PR flap" with the "wogs," brought about by the publicizing of "Incident 2" in the media, as far as I know, was first used by paid Scientology shill J. Gordon Melton many years ago. This allowed Scientology to "handle" an unwanted "PR flap" situation indirectly. Nonetheless, Melton, then an employee of the Scientology cult, was doing what they wished.

Does that mean that the Scientology cult was telling its PCs that "Incident 2" was a metaphor? Obviously not.

The objective is to take the "wogs" attention off the embarrassing topic of Xenu, etc. and onto areas where the Scientology PR wants the "wog's" attention to be: it's a "handling."

As for verbal data, etc. I doubt if Marty does not have people refer to the "Source materials," when they are in a course room situation. Just look at his blog, he and his followers love to "refer to Source."

As for the prohibition on verbal tech, Marty blows that out of proportion so as to appear (to his selected audience, including people he regards as "Opinion Leader wogs") as a bit of a "renegade," much, oddly enough, like the idealized complimentary image of Hubbard as depicted in an Independent Scientology video.

Marty is demonstrating that "he thinks for himself," just as L. Ron Hubbard wanted all Scientologists to - and, yes, that's another PR line.

Marty also operates as an "Intel-PR," and, it seems, pretty much expects the new bred of Internet savvy Scientologists to be able to operate at that (higher) level also (to use "PR" to handle "SPs," etc., and to be able to interact with "SPs,"a deal with "entheta" without "caving in" etc.)

There was always "verbal data" in Scientology. PR people and FSMs always talked with others about Scientology. Scientologists writing books promoting Scientology is also not new. There was never a blanket prohibition on all verbal data, only on verbal data under certain circumstances.

Again, Marty is putting on a display as part of his "handling."

Below is from an earlier post on another thead. There may be some redundancy, but I'm in a bit of hurry right now. :) So here goes:

Marty Rathbun begins his book by telling us that we shouldn't take L. Ron Hubbard literally.

One wonders if, in the chapter on the OT levels, he will insist that "Incident two" (best known to "wogs" from the TV cartoon show South Park) is only a misunderstood metaphor or allegory.

These are two reasons why I recommend caution when reading this book: the signs are that it will attempt to manipulate.

The following is some re-posted material from fairly recent discussions.


From Ron's Journal 67:

The material involved in this sector is so vicious that it is carefully arranged to kill :nervous:anyone if he discovers the exact truth of it.

So in January and February of this year, I became very ill, almost lost the body, and somehow or other brought it off and obtained the material, and was able to live through it.

I am very sure that I was the fist one that ever did live through any attempt to obtain that material. This material I'm talking about, of course, is very upper level material and you will forgive me if I don't describe it to you in very broad detail because it is very likely :ohmy:to make you sick too.



One might ask, what is "the material involved in ths sector" that "is so vicious"?

It is the detail (the "time, place, form, and event") of the 4th dynamic engram - as described by Hubbard - called Incident 2 of OT 3 of 75 million years ago.

"Engrams" according to Scientology, are recorded on "time tracks," and they are extremely "literal." They are exact and must be "perfectly duplicated" so as to be "as ised." In the case of Incident 2 of OT 3, the material (the super engram) was so vicious that only a jumbo-sized thetan, with a humongous theta endowment, was able to confront the "time, place, form, and event" of this super-engram and survive, to not only talk about it, but to map the way for others through it, thus removing the final barrier to full Operating Thetan and godlike powers for all Scientologists, and for the "Wogs" once they become Scientologists.

The material of the book 'History of Man' is not part of OT 3, but the approach to "handling" any "invalidators " can be traced back to H.O.M.:

From the 'History of Man' ["This is a cold blooded and factual account of your last 60 trillion years"] by L. Ron Hubbard, early 1952, originally titled 'What to Audit':

"Tell people who want to invalidate all this, 'Your criticism is very just. It's only fantasy.'"


The "It's only an allegory"-angle is a similar PR "handling" - to be used on those at lower awareness levels - but it's an extension of Hubbard's 1952 PR "handling" of occasionally troublesome "Homo Saps."

It works like this: If it sounds really dumb or crazy, or is exposed as a lie, in front of any particular person or "public," not dumb or gullible enough to believe it, then, immediately, claim that it - whatever it was - is a metaphor, an allegory, a joke, a symbolic representation used as a teaching aid, etc. If this doesn't work, claim it was taken out of context, or that the complaining or ridiculing person or "public" are literal-minded, etc.

In fact, the idea of the "literalizing of L. Ron Hubbard" was re-introduced, recently, by Marty Rathbun.

This is just a more gentle fashion - a "lower gradient" - of saying there's something really wrong with the "antagonistic" person or "public."

From the 1955 'Manual on Dissemination of Material': "Another frame of mind we would like to see the public have and register is that people attacking Scientologist have something wring with them."

"Why are you making fun of L. Ron Hubbard?
LRH_legacy.jpg
There must be something wrong with you!
"

It's a form of bullshitting which is used to cover an earlier bullshitting. It's actually pretty "workable," in that a fair number of people seem to fall for it, which means, incidentally, that it's likely to continue.

An example of this would be a Scientology "OT" telling a ridiculing or "nattering" "Wog" - who has just seen the South Park episode exposing OT 3 - that "it's only fantasy." This, of course, would be an example of following Hubbard's instructions on dealing with "Homo Saps" - instructions that dates back to 1952, and were included in the book, 'History of Man'.

These are old "handlings."

For example, this is what David Gaiman, then Public Relations Director for Scientology in England, told Paulette Cooper, in 1971, when asked about the billion year Sea Org contract:

From question/answer #19, in the 'Appendix' of Cooper's book:

19. (from Cooper) "DO THE SEA ORG PEOPLE SIGN A BILLION YEAR CONTRACT?"

(From Gaiman) "Never make an allegoric joke near literal minded humorless reporters."


From 1985, discussing the Judge Breckenridge findings, and featuring ex-official biographer Omar Garrison, CofS PR person Heber Jentzsch, and Scientology attorney Earl Cooley. (They also feel that Hubbard didn't lie, but was only misunderstood.):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5Drk3eVQSg&feature=player_embedded

So Marty has his work cut out for him on his mission to salvage L. Ron Hubbard's "image" and "good name," and L. Ron Hubbard's Scientology's "image" and reputation.

He's had, and likely will continue to have, some success, due to his application of Hubbard's Propaganda Tech, specifically his use of Hubbard's 2 January 1972 confidential issue 'Black Propaganda'. Marty Rathbun has successfully identified himself, and Independent Scientology, as the "attackers of the popularly considered evil" of David Miscavige.

However, now it becomes trickier. If Marty Rathbun is going to move into full "handle to Homo Saps" (and the "ARC broken" field) mode, with decades old PR gimmicks, albeit modernized for a more sophisticated world of the Internet, he may find himself on thin ice.


Written not very long ago...

'Ode to L. Ron Hubbard' by Marty Rathbun

You said your legacy would be the tech
but the dictator said otherwise
and the church began its demise
and hurt came to those who would object

You said there was no hidden data line
but the dictator said he knew better
and burned all of your policy letters
and the church went into long term decline

You said the tech was timeless and free
but the dictator wanted power and cash
and made your truth a confusing hash
and status and greed replaced the state of OT

You acknowledged the loyalty of your gracious wife
but the dictator used her as a stepping stone
and she died forgotten, friendless and alone
and thus he erased your dear Manuela [Simon Bolivar's girlfriend] from your life

You raised three fine children and one who died too soon
but the dictator wanted them forgotten too
and your progeny turned from sunshine to blue
and the many who loved you wept under a sorrowful moon

You had faith that your friends would make it come out right
but the dictator mis-used your treasure to enervate them
and black dianetics, reverse scientology internecine mayhem
and with violence did he destroy their willingness to fight

You said only truth could penetrate thick armor plate
and though the dictator protested this fact
it was your ace in the hole that has our back
and everyday now more are working to reverse your fate

And alas, it may take time and a perilous struggle
but we assure you it is too late to reverse our tide
you’ve got friends to the end of time on your side
and come hell or high water we’ll emerge from this jungle

Because we know you were right that the truth shall set us free
and that is one thing no dictator will ever take away
it will be your real friends standing at the end of day
humanity freed, the only proper acknowledgment of thee



Now, back to the topic!

I've seen some of the (confidential) LRH PPRO (Professional Public Relations Officer) materials from late 1970s/early 1980s. Hubbard was very concerned with the preservation of his name and image.

It was all "confidential," and almost anything that is visible and publicized in Scientology, or having to do with L. Ron Hubbard, has a confidential side.

Personally, I don't think Hubbard cared who ran and maintained his front group-surrounded and mental-healing/religion-coated fan club (in their own cynical self-interest with accompanying perks), as long as he/she/they preserved his name and protected and preserved his "image," and maintained the "LRH = Survival"-gimmick, to ensure that other people would assist in the preservation of his name and "image" - to ensure their well-being, their "eternities," etc. etc.

Miscavige is currently the caretaker for the Hubbard monuments, more than anything else, and, as a result, he has certain perks. Certainly, being surrounded by the recipients of Hubbard's mind-manipulation operation, that "asserted and maintained dominion over thoughts and loyalties," makes it easy for him to enjoy being a bullying dictator - still, he must operate within the already existing cult framework.

From a 1989 issue of 'Hotline', an internal 'newsletter' for Scientology LRH PRs:

"...it is LRH's image on which all the rest of our expansion depends. To the degree that LRH is made the stable terminal in society, people will reach for his books and services and we can get them on the Bridge to Total Freedom ."

Hubbard set up the ultimate fan club, one that believes that the survival and well being of Mankind, life, the universe and everything, depends on his "being well thought of."

Marty&Mike and other Independent Scientologists are doing an, apparently, self-assigned PR action for the religion-angled, religion-cloaked, cult of Hubbard, which, ultimately, includes both the CofS Scientology and outside the CofS Scientology, a.k.a. "Greater Scientology." If Rathbun&Friends succeed, to any extent, then, in the long run, the CofS will benefit, once it is rid of Miscavige.

After all, their founder's "image" will have been rehabilitated.

Below is a reminder of the Independent Scientology "reality" circa 2011:

"...there are OSA operatives throughout the Anonymous network, ESMB site, the Freezone and Independents running backstabbing, covert propaganda campaigns while we are 'tied up' under siege. Just look for the 1.1s using the safe Independent Scientology space we are creating to promote such practices as no-training-needed to get onto OT levels, 'OT I and OT II are of little importance': especially coming from 'Class VIIIs','Class VIs' and folks claiming to be 'trained by Ron'. They may as well be saying 'Scientology is a fraud, because after all I studied it all, and violently disagree with the Bridge created by Ron'.

"...Cleaning up the image and damage that Miscavige has created for Scientology is not very difficult absent his gargantuan efforts to disrupt such work..."

Etc.

Marty&Friend's objective may be unrealistic, and the Internet age makes it even more challenging, but at least by pointing it out, some things might be explained and better understood.


As for Dan Koon, here's an excerpt from the above (top post) video: "Whatever is going to facilitate your own comm line with LRH is going to be the most pro-survival thing for you."

Does that sound like a "squirrel."

Not to me. It sounds like a LRH fan(atic) who has arrived at being an embodiment of the ultimate Scientology Implant/engram of "LRH = Survival."

Marty is doing a PR handling. What happens in the auditing room, or the course room, is not necessary what happens when doing a PR "handling" on "low level" (below the OT levels) "ARC broken field" or when "handling" "wogs."
 
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Caroline

Patron Meritorious
Indeed, how is one supposed to follow the procedures of OT III if the incident is imaginary? Marty hasn't quite covered that point.

That's a good point. Following that logic, Hubbard was "dubbing in" on an intergalactic scale when he mocked it all up in his OT 3 research.

Hubbard said:
DUB-IN CASE, this guy is manufacturing incidents and saying they're real. (5206CM24F)

Hubbard, L. R. (1975). Dianetics and Scientology Technical Dictionary (1979 ed.). Los Angeles: Church of Scientology of California

The definition of "dub-in case" was taken from the following 1952 lecture in which he discussed religious implants. :omg:

Hubbard said:
3. Then you get all the grief incidents, all the allies he has lost. This can go on and on. This is your “Dub-In” case. This guy is manufacturing incidents, and saying that they are real. Why is he doing this? It is because he hasn’t got a strong enough counter-effort to justify all of his overt acts anywhere on the track. It is really balled-up, so he has got to manufacture them. He has got to deserve all of these things.

He’s got a few religious implants, and that is why I brought that up so strongly, because that is THE type of implant which plays THE role in the dub-in case. The religious implant.

When you look at a dub-in case you say, “Religious Implant”, just as you would say, “Floor-Carpet” - they are right together, A wonderful thing these religious implants; they show you symbols. They are full of symbols. There you are sitting in the middle of an electric field which is beating the devil out of you, and they show you: a cross, a church window, all sorts of things, all sorts of religious symbols. They are on cards. They slide them in this way and that way, and you look at them this way and that way, and they throw waves at you in patterns, and they throw lights on you which have religious symbols on them. Oh, it’s
wonderful! After a while you get SO respectful to a religious symbol. Boy, what has been done in the name of religion is indeed wonderful to behold.

Some of these incidents are really rough. But they are only rough because this fellow later on (after implant) had been a member of a church himself, and would be telling people, “Well brother, you are really a sinner, step into this vestibule and we will fix you up” - FOR A PRICE. And thls PC who is a terrible atheist now (and tells you these horrible things about churches - real terrible things) was selling it across the alter, whether it was peanuts or popcorn, just as long as it would bring in the money. It goes in cycles, so don’t feel too sympathetic about these religious implants, because you will find him out there grinding this funny little gimmick at all the people kneeling there. Maybe his job was to stand behind this pillar and give them the business!! That was just his role in the church. After he had done this for a while it keyed him in tit had a backfire in it, you see) to the point where he confused himself with the congregation and he did another switch. if he has done this horrible thing of doing this (perhaps under orders) without it ever happening to him (that is - with no religious implant, he goes around implanting others) boy oh boy, is he in wonderful shape as far as religion is concerned. God is on his trail; you start to run this life or past lives, and the only thing he will give you is a big dub-in. Yes, he nailed Jesus to the cross, and the only thing that tells you is he has a tremendous number of overt acts without any counter-effort ahead of them. He probably has a facsimile of having nailed somebody to a cross sometime or another. We have been so playful.

Hubbard, L. R. (1952, 25 June). Technique 88 "Overt Acts, Motivators & DEDs. Technique 88 Lectures, (5206C25B). Phoenix, Arizona.

That Ron. He has been so playful.
 

Smilla

Ordinary Human
Our resident Free Zone Flim-Flam Man has been pushing the 'allegorical' angle for quite a while, without actually fooling anyone here I think.

Incidents I and II may be allegorical
People have gains
This is good I think
Are you against people having gains?
Two pints of Lager and a bag of crisps
Some pretty girls in this pub, I can see
Hubbard had faults, but the tech works for most
Why are you against Pickled Onions?
Some have wins with them
But with bad breath, it's true to say

 

Mike Laws

Patron Meritorious
Caroline,

You are mistaken on the underground railroad, which has nothing to do with Scientology tech as a whole or intent, it is merely people helping people coming out, provide them safety, time and space to decompress and help them get on their feet. I am quite certain no one knows everyone knows everyone on all the lines, there is coordination, but not as a recruitment line. Most of the people I personally know working on it no longer consider themselves Scientologists. Marty may use Scientology with some of people that stop at his "station" but the vast majority of the 40 or so people I have personally spent time with did not want to go to Marty for auditing, or anyone else. I personally know several people visit Marty to help learn what was going on and understand. They simply wanted a life.
 

Caroline

Patron Meritorious
I doubt very much that Marty Rathbun is telling his PCs, who he C/Ses to do OT 1,2,3,4,5,6,7, and 8, that Incident 2 is a metaphor, non-literal, etc.

That's what he wrote in his book, but his book is a "handling" of, not only an "ARC broken field" (consisting of non-active current or ex Scientologists, many of whom, nowadays, have heard about "Xenu" etc., but have never done OT 3), and of "wogs." Marty is especially concerned with people he views as "wog opinion leaders."

The "metaphor" angle (and similar angles) re. the "PR flap" with the "wogs," brought about by the publicizing of "Incident 2" in the media, as far as I know, was first used by paid Scientology shill J. Gordon Melton many years ago. This allowed Scientology to "handle" an unwanted "PR flap" situation indirectly. Nonetheless, Melton, then an employee of the Scientology cult, was doing what they wished.

Does that mean that the Scientology cult was telling its PCs that "Incident 2" was a metaphor? Obviously not.

The objective is to take the "wogs" attention off the embarrassing topic of Xenu, etc. and onto areas where the Scientology PR wants the "wog's" attention to be: it's a "handling."

Right, that's Rathbun and the Loyalists, focusing the troops attention on them.

Rathbun said:
martyrathbun09 | June 5, 2011 at 11:50 pm | Reply

Ingrid, I’ll keep saying it till I’m blue in the face: ONCE ENOUGH PEOPLE COME OUT MISCAVIGE DOES NOT HAVE THE RESOURCES TO COVER THEM ALL. WE’VE HIT A TIPPING POINT ON THAT SCORE. IF YOU ARE NOT EXPOSING HIM RUTHLESSLY AND PROMISE TO CONTINUE TO, OR IF YOU ARE NOT OVERTLY DELIVERING IN AN ORGANIZED GROUP FLAUNTING THE TMS, YOU ARE VIRTUALLY FREE TO DO WHATEVER YOU PLEASE – AND THEY CANNOT DO A BLESSED THING ABOUT IT. I ALSO SAID FROM THE OUTSET THAT PEOPLE WHO ARE HIDING – AND NOT PRODUCING ANYTHING OF WORTH TO THE CAUSE WHILE DOING SO – ARE DOING EVERYONE ELSE WHO HAS STOOD UP A DISSERVICE. MIKE AND ME , ROBERTO, SAM, KAREN, TONY AND TIZIANO AND SEVERAL OTHERS CREATE LOTS OF EFFECTS THAT KEEP THE TROOPS FOCUSED ON US. THAT PROVIDES AIR COVER TO OTHERS SO THAT ALL OF THE ABOVE CONTINUES TO BE MORE TRUE BY THE DAY. IN SHORT, I THINK YOU ARE 100% SPOT ON. AND I DON’T BLAME ROBERTO FOR ONE SECOND FOR PRESSING OTHERS.
 

Veda

Sponsor
Southpark.jpg


Maybe South Park will air a program which pokes fun at Scientology's OT 2, then we can watch Marty and the other outside the CofS - and, for that matter, the inside the CofS - PRs do their dancing chicken act to quiet down the "wogs" on OT 2.


"Never proceed past a non-reading item. To do so can be very deadly..."

....

"Many persons experience unreality at the start of [implant] GPM running; this leaves when you see the meter reads."

....

"They are implant incidents...

"Trillion, 20,095.

"Hot Cold.

"This is a pole with a split in it. The back split is hot, the front is cold. Two temperatures. Duration is 1 [and] 1/8th seconds...

"Dance Mob.

"Trillions, 18,992.

"This duration is 7/8 of a second. There is a pole that pulls one in. One is caught in the pole."

And a little more:

"230 trillions.

"This seeks to install...

"Implanter X... Target X," etc. [Shows diagram of implant], etc.


From Marty Rathbun's blog from several months ago, directed at Independent Scientologists:

"...there are OSA operatives throughout the Anonymous network, ESMB site, the Freezone and Independents running backstabbing, covert propaganda campaigns while we are 'tied up' under siege. Just look for the 1.1s using the safe Independent Scientology space we are creating to promote such practices as no-training-needed to get onto OT levels, 'OT I and OT II are of little importance': especially coming from 'Class VIIIs', 'Class VIs' and folks claiming to be 'trained by Ron.' They may as well be saying 'Scientology is a fraud, because after all I studied it all, and violently disagree with the Bridge created by Ron.'..."

As you can see Marty is quite passionate about OT 2.

As for OT 3, Marty is such a liar. He still C/Ses OT 3 just as Hubbard wrote it in 1967, and encourages people to do it just as Hubbard wrote it. If Marty thinks Hubbard wanted it changed or eliminated, then why doesn't he change it or eliminate it himself?

It's interesting to watch all the variations of LYING that Scientologists go through as times change.

Even Marty's statement about there being only 8 OT levels is suspect. It's a way of undermining Miscavige, but does Marty really believe it?

Hubbard told various people that he was working on - or was it completed? - OT 9 and 10, and that page with the big date - a page filed with rows of numbers in Hubbard's handwriting - that Pat Broeker held up at the "LRH Death Event," was what?

Marty insists that Hubbard didn't lie about there being more levels, and then enthusiastically quotes from Hubbard's 'From Clear to Eternity' the next day.

Huh?

It's fatiguing to dig through this stuff, which is why Marty thinks he can get away with so much BSing.

It's a tragedy really. Imagine if Marty were being honest? Imagine what an useful book he could have written, but no, didn't happen.
 
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Caroline

Patron Meritorious
Caroline,

You are mistaken on the underground railroad, which has nothing to do with Scientology tech as a whole or intent, it is merely people helping people coming out, provide them safety, time and space to decompress and help them get on their feet. I am quite certain no one knows everyone knows everyone on all the lines, there is coordination, but not as a recruitment line. Most of the people I personally know working on it no longer consider themselves Scientologists. Marty may use Scientology with some of people that stop at his "station" but the vast majority of the 40 or so people I have personally spent time with did not want to go to Marty for auditing, or anyone else. I personally know several people visit Marty to help learn what was going on and understand. They simply wanted a life.

Hi Mike,

What you're saying is out of accord with what Rathbun says in his book, and in his other writings and talks. Rathbun and the Indies target Scientologists who are exiting Scientology, Inc. Rathbun's virtual "blow drill" for these people is only part of it of course.

Rathbun said:
Since Jason’s visit close to one hundred former members of the church of Scientology have sojourned to our home to resolve their Scientology experiences.   The vast majority of them leave here still considering themselves Scientologists, and better ones than they were when they arrived.   A smaller part of that majority continue on with their pursuit of higher levels of Scientology counseling and studies.   A minority of those visitors consider that they have put Scientology behind them in a positive sense.   That is to say, they are no longer struggling with and resisting memories of their pasts.   They have reconciled them, and consider their Scientology experiences part of their own personal development – retaining positives and considering negatives as part of life’s learning process.     These results are apparently upsetting and unacceptable to the church of Scientology (hereinafter referred to as Scientology Inc. or corporate Scientology so as to distinguish the organization from the philosophy and a growing movement of independent Scientologists).   Since I have been practicing Scientology remedies on victims of corporate Scientology, extraordinary efforts have been made by the organization to crush me personally. [...]

Rathbun, Mark 'Marty' (2012-06-24). What Is Wrong With Scientology?: Healing Through Understanding
 

Veda

Sponsor
-snip-

What you're saying is out of accord with what Rathbun says in his book, and in his other writings and talks. Rathbun and the Indies target Scientologists who are exiting Scientology, Inc. Rathbun's virtual "blow drill" for these people is only part of it of course.

That's a very interesting quote. I'm so glad you're keeping track of this stuff.


:sleepy:Fading off into a recent daydream of Marty's....

In what was, perhaps, the apex in the history of LRH-besmirching, Judge Paul Breckenridge wrote, in his summation, at the 1984 Armstrong vs Church of Scientology court case:

"...The organization clearly is schizophrenic and paranoid, and this bizarre combination seems to be a reflection of its founder LRH. The evidence portrays a man who has been virtually a pathological liar...

"The writings and documents in evidence additionally reflect his egotism, greed, avarice, lust for power, and vindictiveness and aggressiveness against persons perceived by him to be disloyal or hostile.

"At the same time it appears that he is charismatic and highly capable of motivating, organizing, controlling, manipulating, and inspiring his adherents..."



That sure is a lot of natter, yet a little over 25 years later, after visiting with Marty...


Emerging from a visit with Marty Rathbun, now retired Superior Court Judge Paul G. Breckenridge was quick to clarify his comments of over a quarter century ago:

"I know that, regarding L. Ron Hubbard, I wrote and said that, 'the evidence portrays a man who has been virtually a pathological liar when it comes to his history, background and achievements', and that, 'the writings and documents in evidence additionally reflect his egotism, greed, avarice, lust for power, and vindictiveness and aggressiveness against persons perceived by him to be disloyal or hostile.' And I know I wrote and said that Mr. Hubbard 'manipulated' Scientologists, but I was way out of line in all of that, and just plain wrong.

"After spending some time with the charming Mr. Rathbun, I can see that L. Ron Hubbard was a fine and brilliant man, and I have come to realize that what I have written and said, in the past, may have injured the applied religious philosophy of Scientology, which in my studied opinion may be the only hope for sanity in future generations. My hope, now, is that those who have abandoned Scientology in disillusionment will recognize that there is nothing really wrong with Scientology, other than its current leader David Miscavige, and the misunderstandings and misapplications that this suppressive Miscavige person has brought about, and that they will consider returning to this wonderful applied religious philosophy and being Scientologists again."

Rathbun and the retired Judge embraced warmly, and the elderly Judge could be overheard humming the 'Moving on up!' theme song as he walked to his car. "I'll be back in a month to start my adventure up Ron's Bridge!" were the Judge's parting words, as he drove off happily.



Marty's statement concerning the people who come to him, combined with Dan Koon's statement, in the top post video, about how we all have a comm line to LRH and, in effect, LRH equals Survival, etc., pretty much sum up the inner wackiness if this alternate Hubbard cult.
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
Everyone who practices Scn interprets it. The thing is, those interpretations vary. So you can get a non CofS Scn'ist who's become a bit of a pundit or opinion leader who may say that it's a certain way, and others aren't all going to agree.

So it should be presented as ones' own subjective thing. I think that would take care of a lot of the issues surrounding this.
 

Lermanet_com

Gold Meritorious Patron
Everyone who practices Scn interprets it. The thing is, those interpretations vary. So you can get a non CofS Scn'ist who's become a bit of a pundit or opinion leader who may say that it's a certain way, and others aren't all going to agree.

So it should be presented as ones' own subjective thing. I think that would take care of a lot of the issues surrounding this.

Rubbish...

Scientologists DUPLICATE SOURCE.
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
Rubbish...

Scientologists DUPLICATE SOURCE.

Except when they don't.

Indies and FZers differ greatly.

And Miscavige has 6 month sec checks on OTVII and there ain't nothin' in Source saying to do that.

And this is probably why I personally recommend getting away from organized religion.
 

Veda

Sponsor
Except when they don't.

Indies and FZers differ greatly.

Each one thinks for himself, just as Ron said to do. :yes:

And Miscavige has 6 month sec checks on OTVII and there ain't nothin' in Source saying to do that.

According to Jesse Prince, from 'The ever changing tech of Scientology':

"...this bulletin was effectively cancelled by LRH himself... that's where it all started. All these actions were taken to increase income. It is the same with the six month sec checks...

"But I want to make it clear that the whole idea came from LRH not from Miscavige. Miscavige is continuing to carry out LRH's orders...

"...Miscavige is doing his best to forward Command Intention, which is contained in the huge LRH orders database of the INCOMM computer system of Scientology..." http://www.ezlink.com/~perry/CoS/Theology/jesse.htm

And this is probably why I personally recommend getting away from organized religion.


The religion angle again...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfN1vqt48LM
 

looker

Patron Meritorious
So who is more KSW? Indies or FZ?

I don't mind those who use only the stuff that improves a persons ability to critically think and releases distress, as in, talk therapy or 2WC.

Lord knows there are a lot of ex Sea Org , and Staff that went through Hell and really need to talk it out with a friend or counselor. For some its been so traumatic they wont even seek out somebody to listen. Its too much like Auditing or sec checks.


With as much as we now know about what is wrong with Scientology management and Ethics tech. Being a KSW Indie or FZ Scientologist is just plain wrong.
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
Depends on the person. KSW has become meaningless, anyway. Miscavige changed a lot of things in Scn. Basic books, bowdlerization of PDC tapes, new drills, etc. Hubbard changed stuff all the time, too, including taking credit for things others wrote. Not everything in Scn was even written by Hubbard.

Some non CofS Scn'ists lean greatly toward the KSW vantage point- but even there, what you get is their interpretation of it. That's very ironic, I think.

So it truly is meaningless.
 
Come on, can we please stop calling this nonsense ... "Tech", as if it actually has something to do with "Technology"

Hubbard's Mindfuck has about as much to do with technology as the guy wearing the white shirt in this video has to do with technology

[video=youtube;CDlbIiLfLg0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDlbIiLfLg0[/video]
 

Smilla

Ordinary Human
Come on, can we please stop calling this nonsense ... "Tech", as if it actually has something to do with "Technology"

Hubbard's Mindfuck has about as much to do with technology as the guy wearing the white shirt in this video has to do with technology

[video=youtube;CDlbIiLfLg0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDlbIiLfLg0[/video]

Tricknology.
 
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