Jquepublic

Silver Meritorious Patron
Marty is part of the Scientology worlds ecosystem, my like each animal and species is on planet earth. They each have a role.

Is Marty's role valuable? Sure, in many ways. He feeds on CoS Scientologists and they come down with COB Fever, perish as Church members (i.e. "blow") and this helps the world by keeping in check the proliferation of the tech locusts, OSA hyenas, IAS vultures and many other CoS predators.

But, at the same time, Marty is like the species known as mosquito. They are also part of the world's ecosystem, providing food for countless birds, amphibians and fish.

But mosquitoes also are the carrier of a spectrum of disease, such as the 250 million people who are infected with malaria annually, of which 1 million die.

There is much scientific support for the idea that if the mosquito vanished from the face of the earth, it would not have any meaningful impact, being readily replaced by other insects who pollinate or serve as sustenance up the food chain.

All I know is that when Marty is spreading anti-CoS infectious disease amongst CoS Scientologists and wogs, I heartily applaud him.

But personally, I use indie insecticide and bug zappers and don't think twice about keeping them away when I am having a picnic.

Marty serves his eco-purpose to that extent, but eventually will become unnecessary, like the extinct dinosaurs, when COB is eliminated and the parasitic diseases caused by Scientology tech itself continues to spread to innocent people.

LOL @ "COB fever".

I figure that there are people coming out of the church who are going to want to continue Scn at first, but at least they're out and the fetters are off. They can argue among themselves, read whatever they want, talk to whomever they want, visit forbidden sites like this one. I don't think all that many of them will stay in, though, even if they land at Marty's place for a while. Once you start to learn about Hubbard and how things were under him, the "COB fever" starts to break.
 

Veda

Sponsor
Well, Marty has his own game going - destroy COB or some such wording - and naturally he is going to jump on every opportunity to gather more info/ammo. But JB needed a place to go and Marty provided that place for him. Had he not been there for him, who knows if JB would have pulled it off? Sounds like Davis and crew were hot on his tail. How many people have fallen for the "just come back and route out properly" line? I know I did.

I know you dislike Marty, Veda, but give the devil his due. He's helped people get out of the cult, and I don't think it's fair or accurate to say he only does so when it can serve his own agenda. That his agenda is also helped along in the process fairly often, okay, I won't argue that. But I don't believe that's his only motivation.

I don't dislike Marty.

I do dislike his spin on behalf of Hubbard and Hubbard's Scientology, and attempt to correct it when I can.

Unfortunately "help" - and becoming an "ally" - can be used to virtually possess a person, and Marty knows this.

For his sake, I hope that at least some of his "help" is to help only, and has no self-serving objective.

Nothing would make me happier than to see Marty sincerely recovering from the Hubbard cult trance, and to abandon his "mission" to rehabilitate the name and image of Hubbard and Hubbard's Scientology.
 

Smilla

Ordinary Human
It's been said before, but my opinion is that the vast majority of those who leave the Cof$ just quietly leave without any fanfare, and try to get on with a 'normal' life in which Scientology plays little or no part. That's what I did, and I know that a lot of other people here did the same.

I suspect that the 'silent leavers' will outnumber the 'noisy leavers' by quite a bit, but don't show up on the radar.

Some of the noisy ones end up with Marty, but the numbers are not very great.
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
Yep. Have talked to a lot of people who just drift away, not wanting any hassle. Sometimes they quietly dissent and have to be very careful because of family still involved.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
LOL @ "COB fever".

I figure that there are people coming out of the church who are going to want to continue Scn at first, but at least they're out and the fetters are off. They can argue among themselves, read whatever they want, talk to whomever they want, visit forbidden sites like this one. I don't think all that many of them will stay in, though, even if they land at Marty's place for a while. Once you start to learn about Hubbard and how things were under him, the "COB fever" starts to break.

Cool!

Marty provides a re-boot when the CoS Scientologist's Ideal Screen freezes.

Then he rehabs the time they had a big release about the "tech", reviving their FN and restoring their faith & hope in the Road to Total Freedom. This really validates their 30-year investment in L. Ponzi Hubbard's toll-Bridge and reassures them that they will be making big "gains" on that investment.

Once done, the reborn Indie Scientologist can get busy right away, further raising their own morale by using the words "integrity", "insouciance" and "theta" in sentences.

They get a lot of wins making up sentences.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
It's been said before, but my opinion is that the vast majority of those who leave the Cof$ just quietly leave without any fanfare, and try to get on with a 'normal' life in which Scientology plays little or no part. That's what I did, and I know that a lot of other people here did the same.

I suspect that the 'silent leavers' will outnumber the 'noisy leavers' by quite a bit, but don't show up on the radar.

Some of the noisy ones end up with Marty, but the numbers are not very great.


Agreed.

Yet, I always wondered how Indies could read the Internet and still not get the full EP of leaving Hubbard's elaborate hoax.

Perhaps Indies somehow missed a piece of vital NOTS tech on "half-blows".
 

PirateAndBum

Gold Meritorious Patron
I don't dislike Marty.

I do dislike his spin on behalf of Hubbard and Hubbard's Scientology, and attempt to correct it when I can.

Unfortunately "help" - and becoming an "ally" - can be used to virtually possess a person, and Marty knows this.

For his sake, I hope that at least some of his "help" is to help only, and has no self-serving objective.

Nothing would make me happier than to see Marty sincerely recovering from the Hubbard cult trance, and to abandon his "mission" to rehabilitate the name and image of Hubbard and Hubbard's Scientology.

Well he's just announced on his blog that's he's starting up his auditing practice again, bookings for the month of Sept. are open now! So he's soliciting his interested followers to partake of his services and he emphasizes that he's most interested in OT VII's and VIII's:

I am particularly interested in working with those OT VIIs (comps or people who have audited substantial hours) and OT VIIIs who recognize their gains but also sense there are other dimensions of concern that advanced spiritual awareness makes perceptible. In my view there is no reason to abandon the skills you have worked to achieve. Rather than invalidate them, think instead of honing them toward handling those zones to which your intuition leads.

LOL, and he has the nerve to call others "squirrel". And why would he want to specialize there? Could it be their proven track record for having and PAYING the big bucks?

You may not dislike him Veda, I can't say the same. I very much dislike him. The guy was #2, Der Dwarf's henchman/enforcer. I see an abuser behind the smile. I wouldn't put my case in his hands for all the $ in Co$ coffers.
 
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PirateAndBum

Gold Meritorious Patron
Speaking of Martyworld Tech. Anyone know what his actual qualifications are as an auditor? He trained where? Interned what & where?

I remember reading that he did training while on his "vacation" on the Freewinds. The Freewinds is not a auditor training org...
 

Infinite

Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
..

I am particularly interested in working with those OT VIIs (comps or people who have audited substantial hours) and OT VIIIs who recognize their gains but also sense there are other dimensions of concern that advanced spiritual awareness makes perceptible. In my view there is no reason to abandon the skills you have worked to achieve. Rather than invalidate them, think instead of honing them toward handling those zones to which your intuition leads.

Would it be fair to say - generally speaking - that OTVII and VIIIs are wealthy?
 

Jquepublic

Silver Meritorious Patron
Speaking of Martyworld Tech. Anyone know what his actual qualifications are as an auditor? He trained where? Interned what & where?

I remember reading that he did training while on his "vacation" on the Freewinds. The Freewinds is not a auditor training org...

I don't know that he's ever come out and SAID his training level but he presents himself as a Class 9 IMO. My guess is he's a Grad V/Class 9, meaning he routed onto the Cl 9 course after completing Grad V. It's a common TIP for SO trainees rather than going through the Class VIII course. Shorter runway.

You can do auditor training anywhere there is a courseroom, really. Internships as well providing auditing is being delivered and the case supervisor is qualified to supervise your auditing.
 

Jquepublic

Silver Meritorious Patron
Cool!

Marty provides a re-boot when the CoS Scientologist's Ideal Screen freezes.

Then he rehabs the time they had a big release about the "tech", reviving their FN and restoring their faith & hope in the Road to Total Freedom. This really validates their 30-year investment in L. Ponzi Hubbard's toll-Bridge and reassures them that they will be making big "gains" on that investment.

Once done, the reborn Indie Scientologist can get busy right away, further raising their own morale by using the words "integrity", "insouciance" and "theta" in sentences.

They get a lot of wins making up sentences.

Seriously, how many people do you see falling into that category? I think the number is quite small. Marty just makes it seem like a multitude in the way he presents it, in part, I think, to mess with DM.

He even said something in his book to the effect that many people had come to se him and a smaller percentage continue on the Bridge.
 

Caroline

Patron Meritorious
Seriously, how many people do you see falling into that category? I think the number is quite small. Marty just makes it seem like a multitude in the way he presents it, in part, I think, to mess with DM.

He even said something in his book to the effect that many people had come to se him and a smaller percentage continue on the Bridge.

Here's that quote from his book:

Rathbun said:
Since Jason’s visit close to one hundred former members of the church of Scientology have sojourned to our home to resolve their Scientology experiences.   The vast majority of them leave here still considering themselves Scientologists, and better ones than they were when they arrived.   A smaller part of that majority continue on with their pursuit of higher levels of Scientology counseling and studies.   A minority of those visitors consider that they have put Scientology behind them in a positive sense.   That is to say, they are no longer struggling with and resisting memories of their pasts.   They have reconciled them, and consider their Scientology experiences part of their own personal development – retaining positives and considering negatives as part of life’s learning process.

Rathbun, Mark 'Marty' (2012-06-24). What Is Wrong With Scientology?: Healing Through Understanding.

Obviously Rathbun's underground railroad extends beyond the numbers of Scientologists getting his services at Casablanca.

Notice that his "VFP" does not include justice from their Scientologist victimizers. Also, even if Rathbun's targets don't continue with his Bridge, he still counts them as "products," as long as they're neutralized. All of his categories, of people who came to him to resolve their Scientology experiences, are neutralized categories.

He apparently does not try to resolve the Scientology experiences of the category of people who put Scientology behind them in what to Rathbun would be a negative sense. These people are telling the truth about the negative sense, the negative facts, claims, writings, etc. of L. Ron Hubbard and Scientology. It's clear that Rathbun is actually recruiting among his neutralized categories a battalion of bullies to attack the people in this un-neutralized category in order to neutralize them. His "Scientology spectrum" is command intention for his troops.
 

Jquepublic

Silver Meritorious Patron
Here's that quote from his book:



Obviously Rathbun's underground railroad extends beyond the numbers of Scientologists getting his services at Casablanca.

Notice that his "VFP" does not include justice from their Scientologist victimizers. Also, even if Rathbun's targets don't continue with his Bridge, he still counts them as "products," as long as they're neutralized. All of his categories, of people who came to him to resolve their Scientology experiences, are neutralized categories.

He apparently does not try to resolve the Scientology experiences of the category of people who put Scientology behind them in what to Rathbun would be a negative sense. These people are telling the truth about the negative sense, the negative facts, claims, writings, etc. of L. Ron Hubbard and Scientology. It's clear that Rathbun is actually recruiting among his neutralized categories a battalion of bullies to attack the people in this un-neutralized category in order to neutralize them. His "Scientology spectrum" is command intention for his troops.

He's doing what I would do if I were still a believer: acting strenuously to "clean up an ARCXen field". Marty is still very much a believer.

I read his blog entry and I don't see what you see. He made a distinction between legitimate critics and witch burners. I dislike that he sounds like a sea org member. I also find his leaps in logic a little tough to take. But I don't find what he has to say in that entry particularly offensive.
 

Caroline

Patron Meritorious
He's doing what I would do if I were still a believer: acting strenuously to "clean up an ARCXen field". Marty is still very much a believer. I read his blog entry and I don't see what you see.

I was quoting from Rathbun's book, not a blog entry. I thought he was pretty clear about what he's doing. Whether Rathbun is a believer or not doesn't seem immediately relevant to me, but I'm not trying to make that determination.

Rathbun claimed in 2009 that he works in an ethics "paradigm."

Rathbun said:
I do know that I have been working on an Ethics paradigm – sometimes referred to as Ethics Program Number One. I do know that I have seen many people rise from apathy and below to 4.0 and above on the Tone Scale as they become de-PTSed from Miscavige’s Church. Most of those people never received a formal session nor even had the opportunity (yet) to meet in person. The several I have met in person tend to confirm my estimate that most folks reporting incredible gains by handling the suppression in their lives are not exaggerating.

Rathbun, M. (2009, 26 September). Independent Scientologists Community. markrathbun.wordpress.com. Retrieved 31 July 2012 from http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2009/09/26/independent-scientologists-community/.

DePTSing is a function of Ethics and the application of the SP doctrine. See also LRH ED 39 INT 23 November 1969. Ethics Program Number 1.

He made a distinction between legitimate critics and witch burners. I dislike that he sounds like a sea org member. I also find his leaps in logic a little tough to take. But I don't find what he has to say in that entry particularly offensive.

Maybe you could post a link to the blog enty. The terms "legitimate critics" or "witch burners" don't appear in the book.
 

Jquepublic

Silver Meritorious Patron
I was quoting from Rathbun's book, not a blog entry. I thought he was pretty clear about what he's doing. Whether Rathbun is a believer or not doesn't seem immediately relevant to me, but I'm not trying to make that determination.

Rathbun claimed in 2009 that he works in an ethics "paradigm."



DePTSing is a function of Ethics and the application of the SP doctrine. See also LRH ED 39 INT 23 November 1969. Ethics Program Number 1.



Maybe you could post a link to the blog enty. The terms "legitimate critics" or "witch burners" don't appear in the book.

You referenced and linked the blog entry in the bit you posted re: Marty mobilizing his troops. That's not supported by your post or the references you're citing. I take the time to comment on it because taken at face value your post is alarmist in nature.

Here's the quote from your post "He apparently does not try to resolve the Scientology experiences of the category of people who put Scientology behind them in what to Rathbun would be a negative sense. These people are telling the truth about the negative sense, the negative facts, claims, writings, etc. of L. Ron Hubbard and Scientology. It's clear that Rathbun is actually recruiting among his neutralized categories a battalion of bullies to attack the people in this un-neutralized category in order to neutralize them. His "Scientology spectrum" is command intention for his troops."

Nothing he said in his book or said in the blog post you linked fit that description.

There are legitimate reasons to criticize Rathbun, there's no need to take extrapolate and exaggerate.
 

Caroline

Patron Meritorious
You referenced and linked the blog entry in the bit you posted re: Marty mobilizing his troops. That's not supported by your post or the references you're citing. I take the time to comment on it because taken at face value your post is alarmist in nature.

Thank you for clarifying, JQ. I take it you are talking about what I said here:

Earlier said:
He apparently does not try to resolve the Scientology experiences of the category of people who put Scientology behind them in what to Rathbun would be a negative sense. These people are telling the truth about the negative sense, the negative facts, claims, writings, etc. of L. Ron Hubbard and Scientology. It's clear that Rathbun is actually recruiting among his neutralized categories a battalion of bullies to attack the people in this un-neutralized category in order to neutralize them. His "Scientology spectrum" is command intention for his troops.

What I said above is in discussion of the Scientologists' application of their SP doctrine. I did not create a falsely "alarmist in nature" post. Scientologists' application of the SP doctrine against SPs, like Gerry and me, is and should be alarming. The Scientologists' war is real, their actions pose legitimate threats in the real world, and this reality should be alarming. Marty admits he operates in a Hubbard ethics paradigm, as I mentioned above and supported with a link to Ethics Program No. 1. That should raise alarms.

Here's the quote from your post "He apparently does not try to resolve the Scientology experiences of the category of people who put Scientology behind them in what to Rathbun would be a negative sense. These people are telling the truth about the negative sense, the negative facts, claims, writings, etc. of L. Ron Hubbard and Scientology. It's clear that Rathbun is actually recruiting among his neutralized categories a battalion of bullies to attack the people in this un-neutralized category in order to neutralize them. His "Scientology spectrum" is command intention for his troops."

Nothing he said in his book or said in the blog post you linked fit that description.

There are legitimate reasons to criticize Rathbun, there's no need to take extrapolate and exaggerate.

I'd appreciate examples of extrapolations and exaggerations. Also, please demonstrate that the ability to extrapolate, and extrapolation, are wrong, or disadvantages, or somehow contra-survival. It seems to me otherwise.

As for nothing Rathbun said in his book, or said in the blog post I linked to, fitting the description that his "Scientology spectrum" is command intention for his troops," please find for me even one of his followers who disagree with him on the populators of his spectrum.
 

Jquepublic

Silver Meritorious Patron
Thank you for clarifying, JQ. I take it you are talking about what I said here:



What I said above is in discussion of the Scientologists' application of their SP doctrine. I did not create a falsely "alarmist in nature" post. Scientologists' application of the SP doctrine against SPs, like Gerry and me, is and should be alarming. The Scientologists' war is real, their actions pose legitimate threats in the real world, and this reality should be alarming. Marty admits he operates in a Hubbard ethics paradigm, as I mentioned above and supported with a link to Ethics Program No. 1. That should raise alarms.



I'd appreciate examples of extrapolations and exaggerations. Also, please demonstrate that the ability to extrapolate, and extrapolation, are wrong, or disadvantages, or somehow contra-survival. It seems to me otherwise.

As for nothing Rathbun said in his book, or said in the blog post I linked to, fitting the description that his "Scientology spectrum" is command intention for his troops," please find for me even one of his followers who disagree with him on the populators of his spectrum.

Caroline:

I disagree with the notion that Marty Rathbun has the power to hurt you, Gerry, me or anyone else with his PR circus. I disagree with the notion that those who frequent his blog are somehow turned into agents for the destruction of critics. I disagree with the notion that there are legions of Indies busting down Marty's door waving fistfuls of cash. I think we're talking about a small number of people who would have been clinging to Scientology ANYWAY with or without Mark Rathbun, so I don't concern myself at all over the few who visit him for services.

I do not see the point in shifting the attention of critics to the indies in general or to Mark Rathbun in particular when the church still has people in the RPF, still has children working as slave labor and still has the money and power to fuck up your day if you speak out against the church.

That said, if Marty has launched an attack on you or Gerry or any other critic, then that would be something I'd want to know. From where I sit, aside from a snipe at this or that person in his blog, his attacks are directed as Miscavige.
 
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