looker

Patron Meritorious
Yep Tech theft LRH was great at that.

From what I've accidentally bumped into and read; Luckily SOME of the old timers are digging up stuff that worked from the 1960s research teams. But are not calling it Scientology. It might be referred to as Allan's stuff or John McMaster's stuff or Creation of Human Ability stuff, Pilots stuff Paul's stuff.

I think if somebody wants to do that and it works for them and does no harm, that's great for them.
 

Veda

Sponsor
"Close to a hundred former members of the Church of Scientology have sojourned to our home to resolve their Scientology experiences. The vast majority leave still considering themselves Scientologists, and better ones than they were when they arrived. A smaller part of that majority continue on with their pursuit of higher levels of Scientology counseling and studies."

Marty Rathbun, from 'What's Wrong with Scientology?'


LRH.jpg



"Every individual person has their own comm line to LRH. And certain things have happened in the Church over a number of years that have gotten in between that comm line... ARC broken... whatever it is, that serves to cut across your comm line with LRH...

"Whatever is going to facilitate your own comm line with LRH is going to be the most pro-survival thing for you..."

Dan Koon, editor for 'What's Wrong with Scientology?'
 

PirateAndBum

Gold Meritorious Patron
:sleepy:Fading off into a recent daydream of Marty's....

In what was, perhaps, the apex in the history of LRH-besmirching, Judge Paul Breckenridge wrote, in his summation, at the 1984 Armstrong vs Church of Scientology court case:

"...The organization clearly is schizophrenic and paranoid, and this bizarre combination seems to be a reflection of its founder LRH. The evidence portrays a man who has been virtually a pathological liar...

"The writings and documents in evidence additionally reflect his egotism, greed, avarice, lust for power, and vindictiveness and aggressiveness against persons perceived by him to be disloyal or hostile.

"At the same time it appears that he is charismatic and highly capable of motivating, organizing, controlling, manipulating, and inspiring his adherents..."



That sure is a lot of natter, yet a little over 25 years later, after visiting with Marty...


Emerging from a visit with Marty Rathbun, now retired Superior Court Judge Paul G. Breckenridge was quick to clarify his comments of over a quarter century ago:

"I know that, regarding L. Ron Hubbard, I wrote and said that, 'the evidence portrays a man who has been virtually a pathological liar when it comes to his history, background and achievements', and that, 'the writings and documents in evidence additionally reflect his egotism, greed, avarice, lust for power, and vindictiveness and aggressiveness against persons perceived by him to be disloyal or hostile.' And I know I wrote and said that Mr. Hubbard 'manipulated' Scientologists, but I was way out of line in all of that, and just plain wrong.

"After spending some time with the charming Mr. Rathbun, I can see that L. Ron Hubbard was a fine and brilliant man, and I have come to realize that what I have written and said, in the past, may have injured the applied religious philosophy of Scientology, which in my studied opinion may be the only hope for sanity in future generations. My hope, now, is that those who have abandoned Scientology in disillusionment will recognize that there is nothing really wrong with Scientology, other than its current leader David Miscavige, and the misunderstandings and misapplications that this suppressive Miscavige person has brought about, and that they will consider returning to this wonderful applied religious philosophy and being Scientologists again."

Rathbun and the retired Judge embraced warmly, and the elderly Judge could be overheard humming the 'Moving on up!' theme song as he walked to his car. "I'll be back in a month to start my adventure up Ron's Bridge!" were the Judge's parting words, as he drove off happily.


Marty's statement concerning the people who come to him, combined with Dan Koon's statement, in the top post video, about how we all have a comm line to LRH and, in effect, LRH equals Survival, etc., pretty much sum up the inner wackiness if this alternate Hubbard cult.

Yikes! Marty, Marty, Marty! This makes it quite clear where his head is at. Maybe another 8 years out and he'll see his folly. One can hope.
 

Mike Laws

Patron Meritorious
Hi Mike,

What you're saying is out of accord with what Rathbun says in his book, and in his other writings and talks. Rathbun and the Indies target Scientologists who are exiting Scientology, Inc. Rathbun's virtual "blow drill" for these people is only part of it of course.

Caroline,

I have not actually read his book, so don't know what he says about it. What I know about it is here is a station, in coordination with other stations, but not all stations. There are at least a dozen people on ESMB that work on it, few if any Marty or Scilon fans. I know anons that are part of the network, as well as people that were never involved in any aspect of Scientology. I take mild offense to the insinuation, as I suspect would more long term and dedicated people supporting the railroad like Chuck Beaty, and die hard aussies and all of those who don't want public recognition or fame. Ursula Caberta is absolutely part of the network, and has done more than any other person to help many dozens of people in Germany.

It is, IMHO people who have gone through hell working to help others recover with less time in hell. It is a good thing, a loose network of
 
... It is, IMHO people who have gone through hell working to help others recover with less time in hell. It is a good thing, a loose network of

Absolutely, Mike. The important thing is the work being done to help people escape an abusive cult. Their beliefs and ideology are not a key determinant.


Mark A. Baker
 

Caroline

Patron Meritorious
I wrote this KR to debrief on a handling I did on my former husband after he exposed himself prematurely to the Xenu incident. I remember being petrified that he would get pneumonia and die.

kr-1986-14july-ot3.jpg


Ethics Section
Eric Reinertsen
Caroline Reinertsen

14 July 86​

Eric Reinertsen
Knowledge Report​

Around April or May 1986, Eric confessed to me that he had bought & read an LA Times article concerning OT 3. The day before we had heard at the office I believe that there was an article in the Times. It was discussed that the Times was entheta & Eric also knew that the paper had previously printed confidential stuff in it. Eric told me he read the whole article. I called Eric's FSM [1] & also wrote up the scene to Eric's C/S [2] (He was on OT 1 at the time, as I recall.) According to Eric's FSM, the correct handling was to DA [3] the material, which I did.

Later, when Eric was on OT 3 theory, he commented that what he was studying clarified what was in the Times.

(my sig)

[1] FSM: Field Staff member.

[2] C/S: Case supervisor

[3] DA: Dead agent. I DAed the article by saying that what was written about OT 3 was false. It was not false.


One of the most embarrassing things about this KR is how it demonstrates such an amazing lack of insight about this ridiculous handling. "Lie to your husband about Xenu, so he won't get pneumonia and die." I was so relieved that it worked.

In light of the above KR, Rathbun's and the Indies' handling for the Xenu story doesn't seem so odd to me. But it is every bit as stupid and dishonest.
 
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Veda

Sponsor
[Note: J. Swift was once a critic of Scientology who, for unknown reasons, had become a passionate supporter of Marty&Mike&Friends. He has since disappeared, and there is no desire to revisit any old arguments with this material, but it does seem to be relevant to the current situation, with regard to showing patterns.]

J. Swift noted, "Unlike the scofflaw Gerry Armstrong, David Mayo signed a non-disclosure agreement and abides by the terms."

"Scofflaw"?

One wonders about the ultimate motive behind the game being played. As much as I dislike Miscavige, and as much as I appreciate any one who is contributing to the already decades-long exposure of Miscavige's abuses, I, for one, am not interested in being a manipulated or "played."


A J. Swift quote, an excerpt:

"Where Scientology is concerned, Mainstream Culture has swung to supporting the Independent practice of Scientology...

"There are no mainstream journalists, academics, or popular authors who oppose Independent Scientology.

"Those of us who support the Indies are growing in numbers."


This is where we are being led, and I am not interested in going there.

We are experiencing an attempted "handling."
 

Caroline

Patron Meritorious
Caroline,

I have not actually read his book, so don't know what he says about it. What I know about it is here is a station, in coordination with other stations, but not all stations. There are at least a dozen people on ESMB that work on it, few if any Marty or Scilon fans. I know anons that are part of the network, as well as people that were never involved in any aspect of Scientology. I take mild offense to the insinuation, as I suspect would more long term and dedicated people supporting the railroad like Chuck Beaty, and die hard aussies and all of those who don't want public recognition or fame. Ursula Caberta is absolutely part of the network, and has done more than any other person to help many dozens of people in Germany.

It is, IMHO people who have gone through hell working to help others recover with less time in hell. It is a good thing, a loose network of

I would like to read the rest of your explanation or thought, please. To my knowledge, Rathbun has never denied using Scientology tech on his targeted public.

Rathbun said:
Over time Jason and I reckoned that during our week together we created a momentum that allowed us to eventually not only put our negative church experiences behind us but also to move on and up with our own spiritual journeys.   Given that Jason never reached out again for more Scientology counseling, he came to a conclusion I could not have predicted.   Jason told me that “problems created by Scientology need to be resolved with Scientology.” That resonated as truth to me.   It served to inform my decision to devote my attention to solving problems created by Scientology with Scientology.   I decided that the manner in which he and I used certain Scientology tools was how they were intended to be used upon their creation.   I recognized that there were probably more people in the world, by several multiples, who had experienced misuse of those tools and had left the increasingly corporatized churches of Scientology than there were of those who remained.   I decided that I had a right, even a duty, to try to do what I could for that majority.

Rathbun, Mark 'Marty' (2012-06-24). What Is Wrong With Scientology?: Healing Through Understanding
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
...


ScreenShot2012-07-06at111121PM.png


"Every individual person has their own com line with LRH."


Okay, I got that. I really duplicate that. Let me find my own com line with LRH, make myself known and find out what is needed and wanted.

How do I find him? Jeez! Okay, let me just locate "the being".

I am picking up that he is out there (pointing up) in outer space. That indicates.

Wait, I think I just found him. Ummmm, he is a used car salesman on Krzheb. That's kind of disappointing, but I did it, I have a com line.

(SENDING IN THE THETA UNIVERSE): "Hey Ron, it's me, HelluvaHoax!"

Ron is not answering. Let me try again.

"RON? RON? RONNNNNN?"

I guess he is kinda busy right now closing a deal with a customer. Let me see what he is saying. . .

(RON): "This baby is a cream puff--this car is going to change your life. Let me tell you a fact about this particular car. Back when I was living on Earth I had this very same model and it brought me unbelievable luck. True story. You see, I was blind and crippled, but after I bought it, I was totally cured. Well, naturally the governments of Earth invited me to lecture the entire world about this miracle. And--now I wasn't expecting anything like this--but all the people demanded that I become the King of Earth. So I ruled them and created a world without war and insanity and criminality. They begged me to stay, but I told them I needed to travel to all the planets and disseminate this miracle good luck technology to all the people in the universe. Now, we've only got one of these cars left in stock, so before I can sell it to you, I will need to approve your ethics and contributions to my private non-profit foundation. Hey, I can't just sell this car to anybody!"

Wow, Ron is just staring at him and smiling that big weird Ron grin and the customer is getting seriously creeped out. OMG, the guy is reaching for his checkbook.

Ron always was a closer. And VVGI's too!
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
So who is more KSW? Indies or FZ?


ANSWER: The FZ. Ron's Org in particular. They are the only one that stayed on Source with truly pathetic, mental, cringey music.

[video=youtube;A5qOxlC61Xo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5qOxlC61Xo[/video]





[video=youtube;wZd7MzF1RlA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZd7MzF1RlA[/video]
 

PirateAndBum

Gold Meritorious Patron
Jason told me that “problems created by Scientology need to be resolved with Scientology.”

I'd be interesting to hear what Jason has to say about this "quote". If that's what he meant, somehow I think Marty has put his own spin on it.

Maybe Jason said, "yeah the way to handle Scientology is to disconnect from it.", and Marty took that as a Scientological handling? :duh::biggrin:
 

Caroline

Patron Meritorious
I'd be interesting to hear what Jason has to say about this "quote". If that's what he meant, somehow I think Marty has put his own spin on it.

Maybe Jason said, "yeah the way to handle Scientology is to disconnect from it.", and Marty took that as a Scientological handling? :duh::biggrin:

Could be. Rathbun is spinning why Jason "never reached out again for more Scientology counseling." First of all, how on Teegeeack would Rathbun know whether or not Jason reached out again for more Scientology counseling? That's ridiculous. Does Rathbun have PIs on Jason?

Rathbun seems to imply a lapse in Jason's logic, for failing to act according to the truth, as resonating in Rathbun. In KSW Scientology, it is a terrible indicator when pcs fail to re-sign for more Scientology counseling. For one thing, it implies bad technical results, i.e., squirreling.

Hubbard said:
The first three objectives of the Technical Director are as follows:

1. To make absolutely and personally certain that every HGC preclear achieves positive and real gains in every week's intensive in the HGC.

2. To make absolutely and personally certain that every student in the Academy is able to audit on graduation and that graduation is done rapidly.

3. To make absolutely certain that staff morale is kept high using existing technology.

The above are the Technical Director's priority functions. It will be found that when every week's intensive in an HGC pc makes a real and positive gain for that pc, the pc will re-sign and send in his family and friends and that when gains are not so achieved the procurement of pcs is very difficult.

Hubbard, L. R. (1962, 6 April) Technical Director Basic Hat. Organization Executive Course Technical Volume 4. (1991 ed.) Los Angeles: Bridge Publications, Inc.

Failing to re-sign means auditors are missing withholds.

Hubbard said:
HCO POLICY LETTER OF 22 JANUARY 1962

CenOCon

URGENT

CRASH PROGRAM

I WANT THIS DONE.

Not that orgs are failing. They are not, but on the contrary are advancing.

Not that you don't have a lot to do routinely. You do.

BUT-our forward advance is stirring up certain exact problems common to every office. There are certain remedies for these problems. They are all contained below.

This is what I want you to institute as the highest importance.

1. HCO Area Sec. Get org ruds in, one after the other, as rapidly as you can and then go over them again and again.

2. D of P-Outside pcs. At the end of each week's auditing on an HGC pc, check that pc out for MISSED withholds and pull them. Do this as D of P or appoint a special person who can really run a meter. The only question asked is "Has a withhold been missed on you?" Clean up those missed. If other ruds wildly out, return pc to his or her staff auditor to get the pc squared away. Do this on Thursday as part of pc's auditing time. Use a specialist, not the staff auditor. Use a British Mark IV only. This will zoom ARC with org and get you the re-sign-ups you are now missing.

Hubbard, L. R. (1962, 22 January) Crash Program. Organization Executive Course Technical Volume 4. (1991 ed.) Los Angeles: Bridge Publications, Inc.

But Rathbun seems to be bragging about Jason's acceptance of Independent Scientology and Rathbun's Underground Railroad, and in particular how Jason was able to put his negative church experiences behind him. "HANDLED SITUATIONS WHICH RESULT IN THE TOTAL ACCEPTANCE OF SCIENTOLOGY AND ITS FOUNDER THROUGHOUT THE AREA" is a Department 20 Department of Special Affairs VFP (Valuable final product).
 

Caroline

Patron Meritorious
[...]

A J. Swift quote, an excerpt:

"Where Scientology is concerned, Mainstream Culture has swung to supporting the Independent practice of Scientology...

"There are no mainstream journalists, academics, or popular authors who oppose Independent Scientology.

"Those of us who support the Indies are growing in numbers."


This is where we are being led, and I am not interested in going there.

We are experiencing an attempted "handling."

J Swift made that statement in this post on 10 Sept 2011, shortly after Rathbun and Caberta announced their alliance in Hamburg.
 
...What DID strike me as odd as I read the book was the fact that he was actually violating a dozen or so policies by writing it and by the nature of what he discusses (as Caroline and Veda both have touched on) yet I've seen him rip into other Indies and FZers on his blog for being "out-tech", out-KSW etc. ...

From 30 years of observing independents & exes I'd say it's pretty much the normal pattern. It is though I agree especially noticeably among those who consider themselves as 'loyal to the memory of ron'.

The fact of leaving the church forces them to consider the need to reappraise the idea of what is or is not of value in scientology. That inevitably leads to assigning priorities with regard to their understanding of scientology. Not all aspects have equal value and they decide for themselves their own rankings as to what is important. Eventually they achieve a level of comfort with their present beliefs & priorities.

The problem occurs when they encounter others who claim to be 'loyal to ron' yet who have different views about priorities and importance. When these sorts of conflicts arise they can represent not only difference of opinion but indications of 'disloyalty to ron' coming from someone who nonetheless has portrayed himself as a fellow traveler. In such an event a lot of the emotional upset nurtured and created by years of frustration & abuse within the church is displaced into flame wars and factionalism.

The betrayals experienced in the church are never far buried in the emotional palette. They easily resurface in the face of emotional conflict and the perception of opposition.

The same attitudes develop among other exes, including those who have no loyalty to ron whatsoever. However, the loyalists rarely interact with the avowedly disloyal, and vice versa. Their 'realities' are so different as to lead to little basis for exchange.


... Me? I say you can't have it both ways. You either think for yourself and let others do the same or you saturate your brain with dogma and enforce it on others.

I agree. Many have a difficult time reaching such a point though, largely due to their own past upsets and their own assigning of rankings of importances.


Mark A. Baker
 

Caroline

Patron Meritorious
Rathbun said:
Let’s examine ‘verbal technology’ a little more closely. Scientology is referred to as a technology within the church, because it sets itself apart from many other religions and philosophies by its myriad applications. Scientologists pride themselves on applying a methodology that obtains certain results as opposed to simply believing in certain tenets. Scientology has become not so much something to understand as it is something to apply. This is somewhat ironic, given the fact that Hubbard himself pronounced that the only way the subject of Scientology could be lost would be if its practitioners raised procedure into a position senior to understanding.

Rathbun, Mark 'Marty' (2012-06-24). What Is Wrong With Scientology?: Healing Through Understanding

No, this is false and squirrelly. I’m amazed that the Indie Scientologists aren’t outraged by this book, because it is so “out-KSW.” The fact that they are not outraged and disconnecting from Rathbun makes me think differently about their participation in Indie Scientology.

Hubbard defined "tech" in Dianetics and Scientology Technical Dictionary.

Hubbard said:
TECH, 1. by tech is meant technology, referring of course to the application of the precise scientific drills and processes of Scn. (HCOB 13 Sept 65) 2. abbreviation for “technology” or “technical,” depending on context. The technology referred to is normally that contained in HCOBs. It also means the “Technical Division” in a Scientology Church (Division 4, the division of the org that delivers training and processing). (BTB 12 Apr 72R) 3. technical. (HCOB 23 Aug 65)

TECHNOLOGY, 1. the methods of application of an art or science as opposed to mere knowledge of the science or art itself. (HCOB 13 Sept 65) 2. a body of truths. (Class VIII No. 4)

Hubbard, L. R. (1975). Dianetics and Scientology Technical Dictionary Los Angeles: Church of Scientology of California[/I]

Rathbun said:
Having been dubbed Scientology’s heretic by the corporate group, I don’t have any problem with attempting to answer the question without reference to anything but my first-hand experience. I will try to do in a few pages here what the church apparently failed to do in its six-hundred-plus-page glossy opus.

Rathbun, Mark 'Marty' (2012-06-24). What Is Wrong With Scientology?: Healing Through Understanding

How infantile.

Hubbard said:

Rathbun flaunts his "out-KSW" criminality in his recent book, as though he's acting from some second rate Golden Era Productions script to demonstrate Scientology heresy. And his Free Radical Scientologists are going right along with this ridiculous "reality" show.

Highwinds 20 said:
highwinds-20-46-47-1.jpg


CSI. (1997). Religious Technology Center. Highwinds: Magazine of the Sea Organization, 20, 46-47. (PDF format)
 

Jquepublic

Silver Meritorious Patron
No, this is false and squirrelly. I’m amazed that the Indie Scientologists aren’t outraged by this book, because it is so “out-KSW.” The fact that they are not outraged and disconnecting from Rathbun makes me think differently about their participation in Indie Scientology.

Hubbard defined "tech" in Dianetics and Scientology Technical Dictionary.





How infantile.



Rathbun flaunts his "out-KSW" criminality in his recent book, as though he's acting from some second rate Golden Era Productions script to demonstrate Scientology heresy. And his Free Radical Scientologists are going right along with this ridiculous "reality" show.

I think we read two different books! :)

The Indies are free to reject ANY policy letter, bulletin or advice from Hubbard, including KSW 1. And more power to them! Cults depend on dogmatic, slavish devotion and literal interpretation for their survival. Get rid of the dogmatic approach, get rid of the cult.

I've read it over twice now and I find the approach that is spelled out in Marty's book to be far saner than anything I was presented with during my decade of service in the cult. If the Indies actually DO think for themselves and have enough freedom to actually be ABLE to say "I don't like that policy so I won't apply it" then I don't see why anyone would want to pick them apart for that, except of course for the corporate church itself. I sure don't have an issue with it.

Edit: I should clarify...I'm of the opinion that the only way to HAVE some workability from Scientology is to squirrel it. I think the harm it may be capable of inflicting on another is only present if it's followed dogmatically. I think that is true of all of Scientology and specifically of the OT levels - I mean, how could anyone benefit from running someone else's case??
 
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Veda

Sponsor
-snip-

Rathbun flaunts his "out-KSW" criminality in his recent book, as though he's acting from some second rate Golden Era Productions script to demonstrate Scientology heresy. And his Free Radical Scientologists are going right along with this ridiculous "reality" show.

Have any "wogs" fallen for the show yet?

The message to the "wogs" seems to be: The specifics of what Hubbard wrote don't matter, since Scientology works - and produces results. So all those words you "wogs" are complaining about Hubbard having said are unimportant, compared to the results Scientology can produce.

It's results we Scientologists care about!

Problem is, I'm still waiting for the first "handled wog" to appear.

Are there any "wogs" out there who have been "handled" by Marty's book?

At the same time, inside MartyWorld, behind the scenes, the message seems to be that first priority goes to one's "comm line with LRH," so that doesn't sound like, "We only care about results."

Mmmmm.... Look like a tap dance from here.
 

TG1

Angelic Poster
I'm cornfused.

Marty's evil is he's KSW.

But he's even eviler if he's NOT KSW?

I admit I don't care about this stuff nearly as much as Veda and Caroline do, but I really was trying to follow the plot.

TG1
 
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