Jquepublic

Silver Meritorious Patron
I'm cornfunsed.

Marty's evil is he's KSW.

But he's even eviler if he's NOT KSW?

I admit I don't care about this stuff nearly as much as Veda and Caroline do, but I really was trying to follow the plot.

TG1

LOL it's a weird conversation, to be sure! But interesting nonetheless! ;)
 

Veda

Sponsor
-snip-

I've read it over twice now and I find the approach that is spelled out in Marty's book to be far saner than anything I was presented with during my decade of service in the cult.

-snip-

Actually, what Marty is saying sounds amazing close to what I was told, 40 years ago, by OT 6 (then the highest available level) Rick Alexander, when I was a "raw meat" tentative Scientologist. It sounded really good at the time.

Of course, I had no idea that he was just leading me on.

Perhaps neither did he.

Such is the brainwashing.
 

Jquepublic

Silver Meritorious Patron
Actually, what Marty is saying sounds amazing close to what I was told, 40 years ago, by OT 6 (then the highest available level) Rick Alexander, when I was a "raw meat" tentative Scientologist. It sounded really good at the time.

Of course, I had no idea that he was just leading me on.

Perhaps neither did he.

Such is the brainwashing.

My ex, when I asked him if it was true (it being the handwritten OT III material on the net in 99) said only that it was "taken out of context" but never denied it. I really wanted him to deny it at the time, but it worked out better for me that he didn't :) I left and started a new life.

You could be absolutely right that it's a PR handling. Maybe it's the result of collective efforts to resolve the cognitive dissonance that sets in when you're predisposed to believe every word of Hubbard yet confronted with that particular hot mess and have to somehow make sense of it. But taken at face value, and that's how I'm viewing it, nothing he wrote was really any cause for alarm. :)
 

Veda

Sponsor
I'm cornfused.

Marty's evil is he's KSW.

But he's even eviler if he's NOT KSW?

I admit I don't care about this stuff nearly as much as Veda and Caroline do, but I really was trying to follow the plot.

TG1

I never said that Marty is evil.

I can't speak for Caroline, but my view is that Marty is primarily performing a public relations function.

He's doing (an apparently self assigned) "perimeter defense" PR damage control handling - meaning he's positioning himself, off in the "field," away from "Source," but, apparently, still with a very important (private) "comm line" with "Source."

All of this analysis and de-coding would be unnecessary if Marty were just honest, but he's not. He's being a Scientologist doing a "handling."

Maybe, someday, Marty will just, consistently, say what he means.

That would be nice. :)
 

Daisy

Patron with Honors
I think from now on if someone questions Marty on what he wrote, he will tell them: read it again, read what I wrote. He will never try to explain it. He will basically tell one to go to source. God, I hope he doesn't tell one to look for mu's.
 

TG1

Angelic Poster
I never said that Marty is evil.

I can't speak for Caroline, but my view is that Marty is primarily performing a public relations function.

He's doing (an apparently self assigned) "perimeter defense" PR damage control handling - meaning he's positioning himself, off in the "field," away from "Source," but, apparently, still with a very important (private) "comm line" with "Source."

So you're saying Marty Rathbun is trying to rehabilitate Scientology in the eyes of the world because he thinks the Church of Scientology has become an "off-source" organization and that Marty is still loyal to Hubbard.

Are you just now realizing this?

Seriously, Veda -- this is not news to anybody.

I must really be missing the point here.

TG1
 

Jquepublic

Silver Meritorious Patron
I think from now on if someone questions Marty on what he wrote, he will tell them: read it again, read what I wrote. He will never try to explain it. He will basically tell one to go to source. God, I hope he doesn't tell one to look for mu's.

Ugh, well if that's how he addresses questions then he's a poor excuse for a crusader!

What DID strike me as odd as I read the book was the fact that he was actually violating a dozen or so policies by writing it and by the nature of what he discusses (as Caroline and Veda both have touched on) yet I've seen him rip into other Indies and FZers on his blog for being "out-tech", out-KSW etc. Me? I say you can't have it both ways. You either think for yourself and let others do the same or you saturate your brain with dogma and enforce it on others.
 

TG1

Angelic Poster
What DID strike me as odd as I read the book was the fact that he was actually violating a dozen or so policies by writing it and by the nature of what he discusses (as Caroline and Veda both have touched on) yet I've seen him rip into other Indies and FZers on his blog for being "out-tech", out-KSW etc. Me? I say you can't have it both ways. You either think for yourself and let others do the same or you saturate your brain with dogma and enforce it on others.

I expect Marty has utilized the power of "gradients" over the last few years. :coolwink:

TG1
 

Veda

Sponsor
So you're saying Marty Rathbun is trying to rehabilitate Scientology in the eyes of the world because he thinks the Church of Scientology has become an "off-source" organization and that Marty is still loyal to Hubbard.

Are you just now realizing this?

Seriously, Veda -- this is not news to anybody.

I must really be missing the point here.

TG1

You omitted the tiny detail that "rehabilitating Scientology" (in the eyes of "wogs" and low level, mostly inactive, Scientologists), and being "loyal to Hubbard," necessitates lying and spinning on behalf of Scientology and Hubbard.
 

Jquepublic

Silver Meritorious Patron
I expect Marty has utilized the power of "gradients" over the last few years. :coolwink:

TG1

Good point! I view his blog as an effort to reach still ins and bullbait Miscavige, so I've always written it off to his need to be viewed as Mr. KSW in order to convince others to leave the church.

Looks like he's going to need another plan! :)
 

TG1

Angelic Poster
Veda, I've probably left out a lot of things you've said. :)

You've said a lot here on ESMB.

I was only responding to your immediately preceding posts.

TG1
 

Jquepublic

Silver Meritorious Patron
I expect Marty has utilized the power of "gradients" over the last few years. :coolwink:

TG1

Good point! I view his blog as an effort to reach still ins and bullbait Miscavige, so I've always written it off to his need to be viewed as Mr. KSW in order to convince others to leave the church.

Looks like he's going to need another plan! :)
 

Veda

Sponsor
-snip-

What DID strike me as odd as I read the book was the fact that he was actually violating a dozen or so policies by writing it and by the nature of what he discusses (as Caroline and Veda both have touched on) yet I've seen him rip into other Indies and FZers on his blog for being "out-tech", out-KSW etc. Me? I say you can't have it both ways. You either think for yourself and let others do the same or you saturate your brain with dogma and enforce it on others.

Sure, you can have it both ways. That's the magic of Scientology's sneakiness tech.
 

Jquepublic

Silver Meritorious Patron
Sure, you can have it both ways. That's the magic of Scientology's sneakiness tech.

Well it's an undisputed truth that "for every policy in Scientology there is an equal and opposite policy" BUT if he wants to present himself as Mr. KSW then he needs to walk the walk, and this book is the equivalent of failing his sobriety test when it comes to that! :p

I like book Marty a lot more than blog Marty.
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
I think from now on if someone questions Marty on what he wrote, he will tell them: read it again, read what I wrote. He will never try to explain it. He will basically tell one to go to source. God, I hope he doesn't tell one to look for mu's.

He very well might- I don't think he likes being questioned.

However, I know that in some cases, it doesn't matter how much one explains, how often, how much aching detail, how much repetition-there's always going to be someone who's not happy with the explanation and continues to ask previously answered questions.
 

TrevAnon

Big List researcher
However, I know that in some cases, it doesn't matter how much one explains, how often, how much aching detail, how much repetition-there's always going to be someone who's not happy with the explanation and continues to ask previously answered questions.

Sounds like auditing or sec checking to me... :biggrin:
 

Veda

Sponsor
Well it's an undisputed truth that "for every policy in Scientology there is an equal and opposite policy" BUT if he wants to present himself as Mr. KSW then he needs to walk the walk, and this book is the equivalent of failing his sobriety test when it comes to that! :p

I like book Marty a lot more than blog Marty.

Much like Hubbard's "Reform Code of 1968" which "cancelled Fair Game, Disconnection, and Security Checking," the book, IMO, is mainly for "wogs."

The blog is mainly for Scientologists.

It's that gradients thingie, a.k.a. sneakiness.

Where Marty Rathbun is going with this, well, we'll just have to wait and see.

He's been out for 8 years, so he must be de-programming somewhat, but he's also on a (apparently self assigned) PR "mission," and also running a mom&pop auditing practice, and also enjoying his relatively painless bit of fame. (He hasn't been seriously Fair Gamed or sued.)

Then there's (God forbid:melodramatic:) the next book. The BIG book.
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
Sounds like auditing or sec checking to me... :biggrin:

Well, I think that people who are not happy with those whom they are questioning tend to hammer away like that sometimes.

If ya like someone, ya tend to cut him or her more slack than even might be warranted.

If ya dislike or despise someone, ya tend to cut him or her less slack than even might be warranted.

Human nature, I guess.

Marty has made a lot of enemies. So even if he didn't have the "don't you question me attitude" which, IMO, he does have- he might still have people who don't accept his explanations and may act as if he never explained things.

I know what that's like, ya see.
 

Jquepublic

Silver Meritorious Patron
Much like Hubbard's "Reform Code of 1968" which "cancelled Fair Game, Disconnection, and Security Checking," the book, IMO, is mainly for "wogs."

The blog is mainly for Scientologists.

It's that gradients thingie, a.k.a. sneakiness.

Where Marty Rathbun is going with this, well, we'll just have to wait and see.

He's been out for 8 years, so he must be de-programming somewhat, but he's also on a (apparently self assigned) PR "mission," and also running a mom&pop auditing practice, and also enjoying his relatively painless bit of fame. (He hasn't been seriously Fair Gamed or sued.)

Then there's (God forbid:melodramatic:) the next book. The BIG book.

Ah yes, the much anticipated history of Scientology!!

I do hope he takes time to interview the old timers here on ESMB for that book. I guess I shouldn't hold my breath, but it'd be nice to see an honest, factual examination of the church from multiple points of view, pro and con.

Any idea when that book is scheduled to hit the market?
 
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