Masturbation in Scientology

[flashgordon]

I was so thrilled to hear I was going to get auditing when I joined the SO, and a SHSBC student took me in for confessional auditing.
If I had know before it would mainly consist of me talking about either masturbation istelf or what I had imagined whilst doing it, I think I would have skipped the auditing alltogether.
Of course you feel better afterwards, but is it really necessary?
You get to the stage where you can see yourself doing things you know you are to have to confess to in session.
Yes, and my most hated question I can think of in session was always the famous:
'"has a withhold beed missed"

Which would of course always set off on the auditor missing your most recent masturbation activities. (yes, I'm male... )
I think this is where $cn really goes into the realm of mind conntrol, as you get into the habit of controlling your thoughts in order not to even THINK something you 'shouldt', so its really a kind of mind-police.

Just imagine if we had to undergo confessionals and sec-checks as normal citizens.
I can imagine the state and police would love it, but just think about that one.
Is that really the kind of world you want to live in?
Now I'm older I also can laugh about my inhibitions and having to tell all in session.
I hadn't even had real sex at the time.

I must admit I'd love to see my folder and read all that stuff again.

I didnt think about it at the time, bet I bet the course supervisor of the SHSBC was even reading all that stuff too.
Makes you cringe doesn't it.
And then when you say you want to leave you see you folder/s hanging around everywhere for everybody to look into, and its ok cos you're just a scumbag anyway.
So much for the auditors code!

You're not a scumbag. The real scumbags of the world never get into Scientology. Most people who go into the church are good people wanting to help themselves and others.

 

[Carmel]

deleted - post duplicated

 

[Carmel]

Yeah, like we needed more justification.

I'd say no amount amount of justification could be too much, after the amount of mind fuck the CofS has caused people, over having a wank.

Give 's a fu'king break! The race survives because of 'urges to relieve oneself. What's the difference whether that relief is gotten with one's partner or by oneself?

I wonder why women didn't consider it an overt in auditing and men do? Why does it not come up for women very often but does for men?

Where have you been? It's pretty simple, per statistics and common knowledge, 'most' women don't wank as often as 'most' men. In addition to that, just maybe those women who do fix themselves up are smarter than most men, and know better than to buy into the BS that something so natural and enjoyable was an "overt".

 

[flashgordon]

In your view, what is wrong with masturbation, or with sex for that matter?

Hubbard did it. In fact he was quite obsessed about it.

Now, I can see absession with sex as an aberration, but sex by itself seems to be quite natural in this physical universe, same as eating.

I no longer look at this physical universe as an enemy either as Hubbard made it out to be in his paranoia.

.

LRH has said that sex is a cave in.

The idea is that you give up and try to survive and go up the time track through having kids.

I've also read that sex is an artificial lock on create.

Can anyone verify this one with an HCOB?

 

[clamicide]

Maybe that's because only man and apes CAN masturbate.

hmmmmm.....remember once seeing a nature doc and it clearly stating dolphins masturbate.

OK: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_sexuality#Autoeroticism_.28masturbation.29

I refuse to look any further; have no desire to stumble upon the animal masturbation vids that are destined to be hanging out online.

 

[flashgordon]

Where have you been? It's pretty simple, per statistics and common knowledge, 'most' women don't wank as often as 'most' men. In addition to that, just maybe those women who do fix themselves up are smarter than most men, and know better than to buy into the BS that something so natural and enjoyable was an "overt".

You would think women would feel more guilty about it than men, not less. Just like women are much more uptight about other body fuctions.

I'm just going on what someone said was the case earlier in the thread.

 

[Vinaire]

LRH has said that sex is a cave in.

The idea is that you give up and try to survive and go up the time track through having kids.

I've also read that sex is an artificial lock on create.

Can anyone verify this one with an HCOB?

Why do you think LRH is right in his opinion on sex? Do you take everything that LRH said as right without personal examination?

What personal examination have you made, or experience have you had, that leads you to agree with LRH on this subject?

.

 

[Carmel]

You would think women would feel more guilty about it than men, not less. Just like women are much more uptight about other body fuctions.

I'm just going on what someone said was the case earlier in the thread.

Excuse me??? I don't know the women you know, but that's not my experience. Why would you think women would feel more guilty about it than men? And what "women are much more uptight about other body functions"?

Ive been a "wanker" since a very young age, and so have many of my female friends. It's only been some of my Scn female friends who have a button on it. For goodness sake, if ya crotch is taking your attention when ya don't want it to, and there is no partner available to help out, then why the hell wouldn't ya tend to it so that you can get back to business, or get to sleep, or get your attention fully on what you're doing?

This crap from some in society about masturbation is annoying. The crap/guilt trip/mind fuck that is so prevalent within the CofS about it though (especially in the last decade), is too insidious and ridiculous to be believed.

As an auditor, it used to really piss me off when pc's got off a "withold" about wanking. It annoyed me because usually it wasn't their idea that it was wrong - it was someone else's idea, and they had taken it on board. Eeek!

I just hope that those who have bought into this 'hogwash' can discard it, rid themselves of the 'guilt trip', feel free to shoot their load if and when they feel like it, and reap the benefits of doing so.

 

[Vinaire]

Excuse me??? I don't know the women you know, but that's not my experience. Why would you think women would feel more guilty about it than men? And what "women are much more uptight about other body functions"?

Ive been a "wanker" since a very young age, and so have many of my female friends. It's only been some of my Scn female friends who have a button on it. For goodness sake, if ya crotch is taking your attention when ya don't want it to, and there is no partner available to help out, then why the hell wouldn't ya tend to it so that you can get back to business, or get to sleep, or get your attention fully on what you're doing?

This crap from some in society about masturbation is annoying. The crap/guilt trip/mind fuck that is so prevalent within the CofS about it though (especially in the last decade), is too insidious and ridiculous to be believed.

As an auditor, it used to really piss me off when pc's got off a "withold" about wanking. It annoyed me because usually it wasn't their idea that it was wrong - it was someone else's idea, and they had taken it on board. Eeek!

I just hope that those who have bought into this 'hogwash' can discard it, rid themselves of the 'guilt trip', feel free to shoot their load if and when they feel like it, and reap the benefits of doing so.

The button on maturbation seems to come primarily from Christianity. Masturbation has no particular significance in eastern philosophy.

I think this button exists in Scientology because of predominance of people from Christian background in Scientology.

.

 

[Carmel]

The button on maturbation seems to come primarily from Christianity. Masturbation has no particular significance in eastern philosophy.

I think this button exists in Scientology because of predominance of people from Christian background in Scientology.

.

Hey Vinnie, thirty years ago, it wasn't a button for any of my scio mates particularly. In the last few years though, I've had friends who have been forced to do stuff like donate a full book/lecture package as 'amends' for having a wank - Many have a 'button' on it now, and it's not the result of the Christian background in Scientology.

 

[sallydannce]

The button on maturbation seems to come primarily from Christianity. Masturbation has no particular significance in eastern philosophy.

I think this button exists in Scientology because of predominance of people from Christian background in Scientology..

Agree on the east/west aspect but I have a slightly different view on the interference on individuals with regards to sexual practices in scientology.

Control.

I have thought a lot about some stuff that happened to me during my years in scientology concerning my sexuality. Why would any group want to interfere in my sexuality? Tell me what was acceptable, damaging, etc? Get me "confessing" to sexual stuff? Have me thinking about sexual stuff in regards to my participation in that group? Why did I feel my sexuality was being quietly interfered with? Why would a group want to know every detail about my sex life (life history form)?

I boiled and boiled these concept/questions and kept coming back to control.

Yes there are western ideals in the mix, I did see that as I worked this stuff out but my baseline kept hitting the control factor.

Once I removed the controls of scientology, my sexuality changed. Without a glance at smut here, that was truly a fascinating awakening. Without scientology controlling me I have become so much more of myself in so many ways. Hard to describe but as distinct as the sun in the sky.

 

[Vinaire]

Hey Vinnie, thirty years ago, it wasn't a button for any of my scio mates particularly. In the last few years though, I've had friends who have been forced to do stuff like donate a full book/lecture package as 'amends' for having a wank - Many have a 'button' on it now, and it's not the result of the Christian background in Scientology.

It's either a cultural influence or a criminal influence, or the influence of criminals in the culture.

Now I seem to have all my grounds covered.

.

 

[Vinaire]

Agree on the east/west aspect but I have a slightly different view on the interference on individuals with regards to sexual practices in scientology.

Control.

I have thought a lot about some stuff that happened to me during my years in scientology concerning my sexuality. Why would any group want to interfere in my sexuality? Tell me what was acceptable, damaging, etc? Get me "confessing" to sexual stuff? Have me thinking about sexual stuff in regards to my participation in that group? Why did I feel my sexuality was being quietly interfered with? Why would a group want to know every detail about my sex life (life history form)?

I boiled and boiled these concept/questions and kept coming back to control.

Yes there are western ideals in the mix, I did see that as I worked this stuff out but my baseline kept hitting the control factor.

Once I removed the controls of scientology, my sexuality changed. Without a glance at smut here, that was truly a fascinating awakening. Without scientology controlling me I have become so much more of myself in so many ways. Hard to describe but as distinct as the sun in the sky.

I was being just a bit facetious, but there is some truth in all this. There has to be a button, and there has to be the criminal intent to control, or exploit, others using that button.

This all entered into Scientology over a period of time from the culture surrounding it.

.

 

[Div6]

From the 1st ACC:

1 ACC-44 30.10.53
THE PARTICLE WITH REGARD TO TIME

"It isn't an ethical question. Motivators and overt acts are not a question which belongs in morality or ethics. And any time you tangle it with morality or ethics, you're simply letting your preclear agree some more with a system which won't put him up into the line of being an artist again or being able to make space again or anything else.
Morality is itself an interesting thing because it's a nice game; it's a game of restraint and restriction. When it gets played down to the level of making somebody a slave, that's playing the game a little bit too far and a fellow looks up and he can't quite see that it's a game anymore."

Can you say Wrong Target?

I thought you could....

 

[La La Lou Lou]

Maybe its just a tad boring listening to PC's going about how they feel bad cos they had a wank again last night, when they actually do the thing with someone else it must be much more exciting for the auditor. Might even stop him from falling asleep after a night of envelope stuffing.

I think I had a lot of people telling me about sexuality and what was acceptable, who hadnt a clue what Ron had written but thought that anything unnusual must be wrong. As they came from mostly christian backgrounds they had the screwed up anti sex programming, but Wrong Cupboard had it too, DMSMH is mostly about how pregnant women shouldnt masterbate.

It would have been evalution, but thats what SP's do, and obviously Im the SP, not the various ethics officers I saw.

All I know that trying to be 'normal' screwed me up, trying not to appreciate the good looks of a male beauty, or a well stuffed pair of jeans was more than impossible, its running a must have cant have, and causes insanity. You wanna wank, go ahead, just dont go about it, or do it in public. If you think someone is beautiful, look and smile. Dont try and resist your own nature.

 

[TA Jacker]

I recall during my training at Flag in 2002-2003, a good friend of mine and I had come up with a saying: If Tech is OUT, masturbation is IN.

As auditors, we would routinely track a chain of out-tech missed withholds back to having jerked off just prior to the initial out tech. Maybe as PCs as well.

It created such a massive and out of proportion withhold in the trainees that they would then fuck up in other areas. It was bloody absurd!

I think it all boils down to CONTROL, as mentioned earlier. Take away everything personal and sacred to an individual until there is no individual left... just a Turd Dynamic!

I did find personally though, that absence certain does make the heart grow fonder. I think Carmel's got the right idea!

 

[finishedman]

Sexuality, if it is left to itself, as it is in the case of other species, other forms of life, is merely a biological need, because the living organism has this object to survive and produce one like itself. Anything you superimpose on that is totally unrelated to the living organism. But we have turned that, what you call sexual activity, which is biological in its nature, into a pleasure movement. I am not saying anything against the pleasure movement. It has become possible for us to have sex at any time we want through the help of thought.

When the thought of something better produces boredom, we have to write books -- the Joy of Loving, the Kama Sutras, and all kinds of books -- and make it interesting. It is not possible for animals to have sex at any time they want. Animals use it only for reproduction. Not that they 'use' it, but it is for the purposes of reproducing their own species. It is not a pleasure movement in their case. I am not saying anything against the pleasure movement. I am not interested in saying that you should condemn that or become promiscuous or use sex as a means of spiritual attainment. No. It is a very simple functioning of the living organism. The religious man has turned that into something big, and concentrated on the control of sex. After that the psychologists have turned that into something extraordinary. All commercialism is related to sex. How do you think it will fall into its proper place?

Most of the world thinks that love without sex is not very comforting. If sex is used only for the biological purpose it is not really a devastating situation. If you leave it as it is, it wouldn't be so horrible, the way you would like to put it. It would fall into its proper place. That is why we have invented all these other things -- Spirit world, truth, and reality -- which are nothing but ultimate pleasures.

Whether you are here or anywhere else, the one thing that anybody and everybody want in this world is to have happiness without one moment of unhappiness, pleasure without pain. That is just not possible, because this living organism does not know what pleasure is, what happiness is. It doesn't even want it. It doesn't want it, because all these pleasurable sensations disturb it. The moment there is a pleasurable sensation, the demand to extend it longer and longer is there. That is why there is this tremendous frustration there. You want to make it possible for everybody that he should always be happy and that he should have only pleasant or pleasurable sensations and not any painful ones. It may be possible through some drugs like 'ecstasy', but for how long? In the long run it destroys the sensitivity of the body. You are not in living touch with anything there.

 

[uniquemand]

Do you consider chimps animals? Are you aware they masturbate furiously? Ruthlessly?

 

[Alanzo]

I recall during my training at Flag in 2002-2003, a good friend of mine and I had come up with a saying: If Tech is OUT, masturbation is IN.

As auditors, we would routinely track a chain of out-tech missed withholds back to having jerked off just prior to the initial out tech. Maybe as PCs as well.

It created such a massive and out of proportion withhold in the trainees that they would then fuck up in other areas. It was bloody absurd!

I think it all boils down to CONTROL, as mentioned earlier. Take away everything personal and sacred to an individual until there is no individual left... just a Turd Dynamic!

I did find personally though, that absence certain does make the heart grow fonder. I think Carmel's got the right idea!

Hi TA Jacker -

With a name like yours, you were destined to post in this thread.

 

[Div6]

I recall during my training at Flag in 2002-2003, a good friend of mine and I had come up with a saying: If Tech is OUT, masturbation is IN.

As auditors, we would routinely track a chain of out-tech missed withholds back to having jerked off just prior to the initial out tech. Maybe as PCs as well.

It created such a massive and out of proportion withhold in the trainees that they would then fuck up in other areas. It was bloody absurd!

I think it all boils down to CONTROL, as mentioned earlier. Take away everything personal and sacred to an individual until there is no individual left... just a Turd Dynamic!

I did find personally though, that absence certain does make the heart grow fonder. I think Carmel's got the right idea!

Were there issues posted about it? Annoucements at student musters? Where was the push from to make it a "withhold"?