Mathison spots Hubbard's M.O.

Veda

Sponsor
Years ago, I wrote about Hubbard's confidential instructions to Scientologists that they use "aberrative" and "enemy tactics" on Scientology's enemies, and how Hubbard had, also, secretly, used "aberrative" and "enemy tactics" on Scientologists, and how these tactics had been incorporated into the doctrine of Scientology. Hubbard would often mention "enemy tactics" and, inevitably. present himself as the opponent of those tactics. This assured Scientologists that Hubbard would never use such tactics on them.

Hubbard's secret use on his own followers, of the ideas and methods of his 1955 hoax "Russian textbook on Psycho-politics" had been remarkably described in the mid 1960s in the Australian Anderson Report. 22 years later, an examination of this topic was published in the book, 'Messiah or Madman?' and, 14 years after that, an extensive examination was published in the e-book 'Brainwashing Manual Parallels'. Yet, the original piece in the mid 1960s Anderson Report stands out as an example of early and extraordinary insight. (And, by the way, it wasn't by Anderson, but by an unnamed contributor, whose contribution, Anderson, to his credit, recognized.)

And there are other examples of amazingly insightful early analyses of "what Hubbard was actually doing."

Volney Mathison's, in 1954, however, may be the earliest:

dianetics-hypnosis-by-volney.jpg



My only disagreement with Mathison above is that, IMO, amongst the deceit and manipulation, exist some bits and pieces of potentially beneficial information. I make a habit of alerting others to these bits and pieces, as these often are used to build confidence and trust, and as lead-in and "bait" for the Scientology trap.
 

Ogsonofgroo

Crusader
Interesting, more? I was aware that Mathison was mucking with galvanic resistance devices using a wheatstone bridge configuration and mixing it with some sort of analysis theory, but this wasn't new, nor was he the inventor (that goes back to the early-mid 1800's, Samuel H. Christie, C Wheatstone).
Somewhere around the turn of the 20th century, around the time the old windbag Hubbard was spat out, someone figure out that the basic ohm meter moved around when connected to a person, and during the early 20's and onward you could build/purchase your very own 'lie detector', a parlor amusement I have little doubt Lron was well aware of.... especially in light of this from Ken Adler's book 'The Lie Detectors: The History of an American Obsession' HERE Please pay special attention to pages #105 and on, its a great read with lots of historical reff's.

Okay, I admit it, got lost and can't even rem my point now, something about L Ron Hubbard and Matheson stealing/making up a bunch of shit to make money.... Hubbard bullying his way for patent rights, blah-blather ya heard it before, I go fer now. :p

:cheers:
 
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Stat

Gold Meritorious Patron
Thanks, Veda! This is another great piece of a puzzle revealed.

I wish all the e-meter reactions will be explained scientifically and debunked accordingly one day.

That will help all kinds of people who were involved or still are.

I had Class V Auditor training and spent A LOT of time behind the e-meter.
I know the difference between body motions and the actual reads.

Was it all the result of some kind of preconditioned hypnosis? Probably.
But I don't really know, yet.

I do know that meter was not 100 % reliable due to a number of inconsistencies I observed,
but it was fascinating to watch the needle reactions (I think 24 of them?) in response to certain
questions, just as described, etc. It felt scientific at the time.

And when a pc felt better, auditor did too.
It kind of screws with my mind to this day a little.

But, I never met Clear or OT that met expectations/descriptions laid by LRH.
Including Ol' Man himself.

I hope it makes sense.
 
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Balthasar

Patron Meritorious
dianetics-hypnosis-by-volney.jpg



My only disagreement with Mathison above is that, IMO, amongst the deceit and manipulation, exist some bits and pieces of potentially beneficial information. I make a habit of alerting others to these bits and pieces, as these often are used to build confidence and trust, and as lead-in and "bait" for the Scientology trap.



This snipped is useless for processing information.
Would you care providing additional data where Mathison actually says he would be talking about Hubbard or Dianetics? Hope it's not too bothersome. I know I am picky, sorry :)
 

ClearedSP

Patron with Honors
On a similar note, he also said (in the Aberree, Summer 1955, http://www.aberree.com/scans/v02/v02no04/page0016.png):
The time has come to disclose that perhaps the main reason Mr Hubbard ever "disapproved" of the electropsychometer was that he received formal notification that his franchise to buy and sell Electropsychometers had been summararily CANCELLED.
Why?

The cancellation resulted from Mr Hubbards publication of his '30' technique and others of similar nature thereafter, i regard some of these techniques as sinister and their effects destructive...

The "Dirty 30" he's thinking of was Op Pro by Dup ("Book and Bottle"), something many of us ran as early as Life Repair or HQS, which is near the top of most exes' list for "most hypnotic process."

When people talk as if the lower bridge were all safe and benign, this is a good thing to remember.
 

Balthasar

Patron Meritorious
On a similar note, he also said (in the Aberree, Summer 1955, http://www.aberree.com/scans/v02/v02no04/page0016.png):


The "Dirty 30" he's thinking of was Op Pro by Dup ("Book and Bottle"), something many of us ran as early as Life Repair or HQS, which is near the top of most exes' list for "most hypnotic process."

When people talk as if the lower bridge were all safe and benign, this is a good thing to remember.

My God, what paranoia :omg:!

Laundry powder and alcohol commercials are just as “hypnotic” as Op pro by Dup” or any of the lower bridge processes. And that's probably one of the reasons Alcohol ads have been banned here in the UK from appearing in programs targeted at audiences below the age of 18.
Doesn't help much though because the parents of teenagers are being “hypnotised” to go get drunk sufficiently so they wouldn't care their kids drinking, smoking all kind of stuff with them.

I am not trolling as you might think. I just disagree with recurring drivel of lower bridge being dangerous, hypnotic etc. Arguably, they might not be useful and in fact, I skipped most of it because they bored the crap out of me. But hypnotic? You have got to be kidding :duh:.
 

dchoiceisalwaysrs

Gold Meritorious Patron
My God, what paranoia :omg:!

Laundry powder and alcohol commercials are just as “hypnotic” as Op pro by Dup” or any of the lower bridge processes. And that's probably one of the reasons Alcohol ads have been banned here in the UK from appearing in programs targeted at audiences below the age of 18.
Doesn't help much though because the parents of teenagers are being “hypnotised” to go get drunk sufficiently so they wouldn't care their kids drinking, smoking all kind of stuff with them.

I am not trolling as you might think. I just disagree with recurring drivel of lower bridge being dangerous, hypnotic etc. Arguably, they might not be useful and in fact, I skipped most of it because they bored the crap out of me. But hypnotic? You have got to be kidding :duh:.

Well Balthasar if you don't like the word hypnosis or have some disagreement with it, would you agree that at least there is a control and direction of attention and thus external manipulation of focus which also involves a relinquishment of self control? What do we have then? And from there? Do we get the subject accepting/transplanting data and or control that is accepted, per the PR that such acceptance will benefit him/her and subsequent assertion of that in success stories. I think some would call that externally initiated self-hypnosis, perhaps. And has the person now, become programmed and if so by whom?
Definition of Scientology 666. the knowing or unknowing manipulation of minds and the will of souls (for the entertainment, and enslavement by, a diabolically lost soul?
 

Gadfly

Crusader
Hypnotic states are altered states of consciousness. There are many and they cover a wide range in terms of depth and focus.

Hypnotism is sort of like a gun - it can be used for good or bad, to help or harm.

What matters is if it is being done without the person's full knowledge and consent.

And, even if not, is it being done to TRULY help the person, and NOT the hypnotist?

I have the view that the majority of the dangerous hypnotism within Scientology involves the ideology - the beliefs, KSW, the extreme belief system that is foisted on members.

I often saw Sea Org members who had very little auditing, but who were VERY MUCH "hypnotized" into the mindset of an over-indoctrinated Scientologist. Now, just as with visualization, where one imagines things, of course, some form of hypnotism occurs in various forms of auditing. When one does objectives, ones attention and focus is being directed. And, when I read a book my attention and focus is being directed. Big deal. At no point did I ever succumb to some tendency to more readily accept and follow inane orders and instructions as a result of doing Objectives. In EVERY case of any Objective I ever did, I was sharper, clearer, brighter and more in present time AFTER completing the objective. I was removed from a few posts and Comm Eved for refusing to implement orders from uplines. That was AFTER much auditing.

I enjoyed almost all of my lower bridge auditing very much. I don't see that it harmed me in any way, and it probably had various positive effects. Without the insanity of the Scientology organization (hard sell, excessive pricing, fanaticism, lying, manipulation techniques, etc.), I probably might have stuck around.

If it were cheap, and if there was no insane Scientology organization, and I had to do it all over again - I WOULD!

To me this attempt to make auditing appear to be some horrible mind-controlling hypnosis is WAY over-exaggerated and quite a distortion of what is actually going on.

It is the 3rd dynamic hypnosis that causes 95% of the problems. Now, granted the state of key-out or blow-out does temporarily reduce ones defenses, and in an ultra-controlling setup like Scientology one CAN and WILL be taken advantage of.
 

Balthasar

Patron Meritorious
Well Balthasar if you don't like the word hypnosis or have some disagreement with it, would you agree that at least there is a control and direction of attention and thus external manipulation of focus which also involves a relinquishment of self control? ....

---snipped for brevity

dchoiceisalwaysrs, I like your name.

Try to use it as a mantra next time someone wants to hypnotise you :)

And I agree with you.
 

uniquemand

Unbeliever
My God, what paranoia :omg:!

Laundry powder and alcohol commercials are just as “hypnotic” as Op pro by Dup” or any of the lower bridge processes. And that's probably one of the reasons Alcohol ads have been banned here in the UK from appearing in programs targeted at audiences below the age of 18.
Doesn't help much though because the parents of teenagers are being “hypnotised” to go get drunk sufficiently so they wouldn't care their kids drinking, smoking all kind of stuff with them.

I am not trolling as you might think. I just disagree with recurring drivel of lower bridge being dangerous, hypnotic etc. Arguably, they might not be useful and in fact, I skipped most of it because they bored the crap out of me. But hypnotic? You have got to be kidding :duh:.

The lower Bridge, I'd agree, is not dangerous in itself. The danger is only that the person comes to trust the auditor and the Church more than they trust their own judgment and intuition. This trust and the "wins" from session are then abused to have the person by more and more unnecessary services, some of which ARE dangerous (implant crap or anything else which the Church has decided to keep confidential because it exposes their racket).

Hypnosis is not dangerous, inherently. Abuse is dangerous. Since hypnosis can be abused, many people want hypnosis stopped, even when it is not being abused.
 

Gadfly

Crusader
The lower Bridge, I'd agree, is not dangerous in itself. The danger is only that the person comes to trust the auditor and the Church more than they trust their own judgment and intuition. This trust and the "wins" from session are then abused to have the person by more and more unnecessary services, some of which ARE dangerous (implant crap or anything else which the Church has decided to keep confidential because it exposes their racket).

Hypnosis is not dangerous, inherently. Abuse is dangerous. Since hypnosis can be abused, many people want hypnosis stopped, even when it is not being abused.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^ THAT! :thumbsup:
 

Balthasar

Patron Meritorious
--- snipped for brevity----

Hypnosis is not dangerous, inherently. Abuse is dangerous. Since hypnosis can be abused, many people want hypnosis stopped, even when it is not being abused.


Yes I am with you and give an example.

A young woman visits a hypnotist to heal her from anxiety or whatever. The hypnotist because he is a criminal, abuses her sexually while she is under his control.

Now many people might think hypnosis should be forbidden by law and this would eradicate such abuse. But what we usually see is that very same abuse just incarnates in another form. The challenge must be to effectively fight the abuse, the crime itself and containing it to a minimum. The law already forbids rape.

Just amend "rape under hypnosis" with decapitation:omg:. The guy would be thinking twice going about his business :eyeroll:

Problem is, society wants it all! Freedom doing whatever it pleases yet ultimate protection and safety, compensation for real and imagined misfortune and above all, please Government think for us and give us more laws to forbid all those dangerous things intruding our lives.

That's asking for fascism. Do we want total control?
 

uniquemand

Unbeliever
I would like to see regulatory agencies for hypnotism, whether it be used in advertising or any other arena. If nothing else, I would like to see statutes about "mental/spiritual abuse", well-defined, that could be used to recoup damages from the Church or other abusers of mental functions. Right now, "mental cruelty" is a grounds for divorce, but I don't think it bears any kind of legal authority to extract damages.
 

ClearedSP

Patron with Honors
I am not trolling as you might think. I just disagree with recurring drivel of lower bridge being dangerous, hypnotic etc. Arguably, they might not be useful and in fact, I skipped most of it because they bored the crap out of me. But hypnotic? You have got to be kidding :duh:.

Wier, in his 1995 book, Trance: from magic to technology, defines a simple trance (p. 58) as being caused by cognitive loops where a cognitive object (thoughts, images, sounds, intentional actions) repeats long enough to result in various sets of disabled cognitive functions.
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trance#Working_models)

Repetition is an extremely well proven, time tested method of inducing trance. Look at mantras, or sufis dancing themselves into altered states, or repeating a simple prayer hundreds of times. Good coverage here: http://www.blogiversity.org/blogs/psychology/archive/2008/07/18/trance.aspx

That's not to say that there's anything inherently bad about trance states, which can be very pleasant, and can have perfectly benign uses. People go to a lot of effort to get into them. Whether trance is dangerous or not is a matter of the context (e.g., trance while driving is undesirable) and what's done with it.

Is there some reason why you think that having an auditor make you do the same thing over and over for many hours, or even days or weeks, would NOT induce trance?
 

Gadfly

Crusader
Is there some reason why you think that having an auditor make you do the same thing over and over for many hours, or even days or weeks, would NOT induce trance?

Trance states do not generally last for days and days or weeks and weeks.

A stated purpose of Objectives is to BREAK DOWN "automatic behavior responses" (aka "automaticities"). I did all of the Objectives, fully and completely. Other than the biggies, like Op Pro By Dup (Book and Bottle), the duration is not very long. I did spread Op Pro By Dup over a few days.

Now, yes, while doing the process, there were moments where I lost consciousness, became docile, and slipped into what might be called a hypnotic trance. But, it was surely NOT the aim to remain in such a state. The idea, "the way out is the way through" applied very much. As my twin persisted in getting me to do the process, I moved OUT of the fixed dull state of consciousness (that had been activated along the way), and ended off VERY AWARE, with NO tendency to walk around in some obedient daze.

I did over 500 hours of auditing on the lower bridge. I remained and actually became a WORSE pain-in-the-ass who refused to obediently follow orders. I suspect there might be a light trance state with some forms of auditing - like the state of "reverie" in dianetics. But it is light and gentle, one never actually snaps into another reality, and it is very easy to come out of. In fact, at the end of each chain, one comes out of it.

Now sometimes when I meditate (mantra style), I do slip into what might be called a trance. It is entirely intentional, and to me desirable. And, I come out of it, switching back to regular everyday consciousness.

The simple fact of repeating something over and over does not make it a trance. I practice guitar riffs over and over. Do I slip into an trance? Mmmm? Actually sometimes I do, but it is a GOOD thing. I lose awareness of the rest of the world, I sort of become one with the musical instrument, time slows down, and I play MUCH better.

Rituals are used in various aspects of life to add continuity and meaning. These all involve very exact repetitive patterns. I think people get all worked up about this "trance" thing. It is an aspect of consciousness, and exists to varying degrees in many aspects of life (for good and bad).

There is a modern form of music that is called "trance".

Now, reading and studying the Hubbard paradigm, and allowing it to take over your mind, DOES induce a sort of CONTINUING TRANCE where one sees the world and reality differently because his or her observations and experiences are filtered through the system of fixed ideas known as Scientology. When I watch an audience standing up together and loudly clapping to a picture of Hubbard, now THAT does seem like a trance state.

To me, the worse aspect of Scientology is the shared trance-like state that the believers share. A True Believer of any ideology very much exists in a trance state that is defined by the boundaries of the nutty belief system. He or she sees and experiences an entirely different version of reality than everyone else. To me, they are truly in a trance. But, it has little or nothing to do with auditing.
 

uniquemand

Unbeliever
The problem with auditing, in terms of stuff that happens outside consciousness, is what's called "the transference". Trances of all kinds can happen at movies, while having sex, watching TV, listening to music: essentially, anytime you are passively receptive. Trances, IMO, are not the problem. The problem is transference, which binds you to the orgs and to Hubbard/your auditor increasingly, regardless of your analytical realization that something is wrong.
 

Balthasar

Patron Meritorious
........snippedy snip .............

Is there some reason why you think that having an auditor make you do the same thing over and over for many hours, or even days or weeks, would NOT induce trance?

Simply because I didn't see it as being in trance.

Yes, you could argue that it produces a state of reduced conciousness. But that is what you would expect. You actually want it to be DOING something. It's not like you would be running around sleep walking and could not remember anything what happened afterwards. You are still in control of yourself and you get to read the references first, at least when you co-audit, and you know where you are. So no, I did not feel somebody is putting me into a trance state.
 

Caroline

Patron Meritorious
This snipped is useless for processing information.

No, it is very useful information. I have no trouble processing it.

Would you care providing additional data where Mathison actually says he would be talking about Hubbard or Dianetics? Hope it's not too bothersome. I know I am picky, sorry :)

Here, from Wikipedia:

Wikipedia said:
Mathison never litigated the appropriation of his invention, but he felt bitter and disillusioned about Hubbard. Mathison remarked in 1964, "I decry the doings of trivial fakers, such as scientologists and the like, who glibly denounce hypnosis and then try covertly to use it in their phony systems".[17]

________
[17] Müller, Tilo (2010). Dianetik und Scientology in ihrem Anspruch als Wissenschaft. GRIN Verlag. pp. 32. ISBN 978-3-640-58010-1.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volney_Mathison#cite_note-17
 
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