HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
This is something that has not been well explored by the pundits. Maybe the cult is gathering its collective legal wits for a future onslaught, but in the past, their lawyers would already have been at HBO's door by now.

One of the issues is that there are only so many lawyers willing to put up with Slappy's micromanagement, and 20 some of them are already "handling" Marty and Mosey. Between the distraction of all the Narconon, Garcia, and other suits, the personal animosity against Marty, and the sheer wall of entheta cresting over the cult's ramparts, they just can't mount a decent legal harassment campaign anymore.

And with that one great weapon gone, it's the beginning of the end for them.


Excellent point!

It seems that a "perfect storm" has now fully formed vs. Scientology.

1. The media finally (after 65 years) has no fear--and joyfully use their newfound carte blanche to attack, joke, criticize and publish all the humiliating secrets of Scientology.

2. The Internet.

3. The great majority of who have tried the tech have eventually blown and turned vs. Scientology. I would estimate the ratio of blows:stays being about 95:5. Thus for every person the cult recruits, another enemy is later created who probably (in turn) poisons at least 5-10 other people vs. the cult (spouse, kids, brothers, sisters, friends, relatives, co-workers...). Thus for every one (1) person the cult someone manages snare, approximately another 10 enemies are ultimately made.

The future of Scientology is bleak and growing bleaker by leaps and bounds. Only Scientologists don't know about all this.


 
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Gib

Crusader
Excellent point!

It seems that a "perfect storm" that has now fully formed vs. Scientology.
1. The media finally (after 65 years) has no fear--and joyfully use their newfound carte blanche to attack, joke, criticize and publish all the humiliating secrets of Scientology.

2. The Internet.

3. The great majority of who have tried the tech have eventually blown and turned vs. Scientology. I would estimate the ratio of blows:stays being about 95:5. Thus for every person the cult recruits, another enemy is later created who probably (in turn) poisons at least 5-10 other people vs. the cult (spouse, kids, brothers, sisters, friends, relatives, co-workers...). Thus for every one (1) person the cult someone manages snare, approximately another 10 enemies are ultimately made.

The future of Scientology is bleak and growing bleaker by leaps and bounds. Only Scientologists don't know about all this.



so true.

I believe the media is at step one, and touching on step two:

http://www.lermanet.com/cos/8steps.html

"And rest easy, with the calm self assurance that your "donations"are supporting a platoon of the most expensive lawyers in the world....that are needed to ensure that the FRAUD of $cientology continues..."
 

Udarnik

Gold Meritorious Patron
Excellent point!

It seems that a "perfect storm" that has now fully formed vs. Scientology.
1. The media finally (after 65 years) has no fear--and joyfully use their newfound carte blanche to attack, joke, criticize and publish all the humiliating secrets of Scientology.

2. The Internet.

3. The great majority of who have tried the tech have eventually blown and turned vs. Scientology. I would estimate the ratio of blows:stays being about 95:5. Thus for every person the cult recruits, another enemy is later created who probably (in turn) poisons at least 5-10 other people vs. the cult (spouse, kids, brothers, sisters, friends, relatives, co-workers...). Thus for every one (1) person the cult someone manages snare, approximately another 10 enemies are ultimately made.

The future of Scientology is bleak and growing bleaker by leaps and bounds. Only Scientologists don't know about all this.



I think point #3 was true before the Internet. After the Internet? I think you're off by a factor of 100 to 1000 per person, on average. How many people has Chris Shelton reached alone?

Karen#1?

Jenna Miscavige?

I think the average blow who keeps silent in public and only reaches 10 friends and relatives is a thing of the past.

Look at me. I'm a never in from the South. There were two religions where I grew up, Protestant and Catholic. We had, and I kid you not, 2 Jewish kids and 1 Hindu kid as the sum total of non-Christians in our entire High School. The only reason I knew the whole world wasn't whacko fundamentalist was that my parents dragged me across the river to an African American church. And I know what a TR is. I know what Clear is supposed to be. I know how fucked up most OTs are. And it trickles down a generation. My kid is a half Chinese Middle School math and music geek in some podunk little town. Every day she asks me what's the new entheta on this here board.

Look at Mike Rowe and Spanky Taylor. Mike Rowe, Mr. Dirty Jobs, talking about Scientology? Seriously?

Reaching people like that is a a straight up and vertical stat.

I think every blow is probably reaching over 100 people right now, with some of the bigger ones such as Jenna reaching into the millions. If there were ever a million members, a 10:1 ratio would make about 10 million enemies.

I'd estimate the global enemies of the Co$ to be 1 - 2 orders of magnitude larger than that! :yes:
 
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Terril park

Sponsor
I think point #3 was true before the Internet. After the Internet? I think you're off by a factor of 100 to 1000 per person, on average. How many people has Chris Shelton reached alone?

Karen#1?

Jenna Miscavige?

I think the average blow who keeps silent in public and only reaches 10 friends and relatives is a thing of the past.

Look at me. I'm a never in from the South. There were two religions where I grew up, Protestant and Catholic. We had, and I kid you not, 2 Jewish kids and 1 Hindu kid as the sum total of non-Christians in our entire High School. The only reason I knew the whole world wasn't whacko fundamentalist was that my parents dragged me across the river to an African American church. And I know what a TR is. I know what Clear is supposed to be. I know how fucked up most OTs are. And it trickles down a generation. My kid is a half Chinese Middle School math and music geek in some podunk little town. Every day she asks me what's the new entheta on this here board.

Look at Mike Rowe and Spanky Taylor. Mike Rowe, Mr. Dirty Jobs, talking about Scientology? Seriously?

Reaching people like that is a a straight up and vertical stat.

I think every blow is probably reaching over 100 people right now, with some of the bigger ones such as Jenna reaching into the millions. If there were ever a million members, a 10:1 ratio would make about 10 million enemies.

I'd estimate the global enemies of the Co$ to be 1 - 2 orders of magnitude larger than that! :yes:

I know someone who had a classic CO$ injustice action and got declared.
Some in the family were still in. Thus the whole family was adversely affected.
She estimated about 200 people became enemies to CO$ because of this. The
events were a decade or more ago.

Currently there are virtually no people sympathetic to Scn or CO$. When I posted
FZ successes on Myspace the hostile reactions were as bad as on ARS. In 6+ years
of protesting with anons I can recall only one passer by sympathetic and he was a CO$
member.

Last night went to Skeptics in the pub for a talk by Dr. Martin Poulter, "How to build
a cult the scientology way". 150-200 audience and not one mention of anything
positive, not even by me.:coolwink: Martin is very funny and very knowledgeable
and used to have the largest critical site.

The London Fortean society plans a Scientology event for later in the year with
Martin, Dr David Barrett and myself talking.
 

Terril park

Sponsor
This is something that has not been well explored by the pundits. Maybe the cult is gathering its collective legal wits for a future onslaught, but in the past, their lawyers would already have been at HBO's door by now.

One of the issues is that there are only so many lawyers willing to put up with Slappy's micromanagement, and 20 some of them are already "handling" Marty and Mosey. Between the distraction of all the Narconon, Garcia, and other suits, the personal animosity against Marty, and the sheer wall of entheta cresting over the cult's ramparts, they just can't mount a decent legal harassment campaign anymore.

And with that one great weapon gone, it's the beginning of the end for them.

You seem to have greater respect for lawyers than I. Since the truth rundown
there has been plenty of exes, and high up exes and others willing to stand up
and face legal and other onslaughts by CO$. If the CO$ sued those who spoke up it
would IMO be a massive footbullet, and further risks of DM being deposed. Imagine
months of news articles about DM's alledgedly beating up his subordinates, and
note he would be suing media that have enough money/insurance to keep
going for a while.

One aspect that may keep lawyers at a distance is that CO$ gives them bad,
misleading or no info. For example Debbie Cook testifying about her experience
in the hole must have suprised the lawyers.
 

SPsince83

Gold Meritorious Patron
Stephanie Miller now is making casual scn jokes regularly on her Free Speech TV show. Even if she only has an audience of a million maybe, it ripples out. Before Going Clear the scn jokes were rare.:bong:
 

Lulu Belle

Moonbat
You seem to have greater respect for lawyers than I. Since the truth rundown
there has been plenty of exes, and high up exes and others willing to stand up
and face legal and other onslaughts by CO$. If the CO$ sued those who spoke up it
would IMO be a massive footbullet, and further risks of DM being deposed. Imagine
months of news articles about DM's alledgedly beating up his subordinates, and
note he would be suing media that have enough money/insurance to keep
going for a while.

One aspect that may keep lawyers at a distance is that CO$ gives them bad,
misleading or no info. For example Debbie Cook testifying about her experience
in the hole must have suprised the lawyers.


I was thinking something like this too.

I don't think you'll see COS do too much suing in the future. What comes up in discovery hitting the internet and the media every day combined with the threat of DM being deposed...I don't think they're going to be playing that game unless they absolutely have to. It's too risky.

If you notice, most, if not all, of the high profile lawsuits COS is involved in these days they are the defendant, not the plaintiff. Didn't use to be like that.
 
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Udarnik

Gold Meritorious Patron
I was thinking something like this too.

I don't think you'll see COS due too much suing in the future. What comes up in discovery hitting the internet and the media every day combined with the threat of DM being deposed...I don't think they're going to be playing that game unless they absolutely have to. It's too risky.

If you notice, most, if not all, of the high profile lawsuits COS is involved in these days they are the defendant, not the plaintiff. Didn't use to be like that.

I think you're right. I think the threat of deposition in the Mosey case kept Davy from pulling the trigger against HBO, because HBO is infinitely more likely than little 'ol Mosey to have a large enough team of lawyers to successfully fight the paper storm and get him on the chair. And if there is one thing that boy is afraid of, it's having some lawyer poke at the McPherson case while he's in the chair.
 

MrNobody

Who needs merits?
I think you're right. I think the threat of deposition in the Mosey case kept Davy from pulling the trigger against HBO, because HBO is infinitely more likely than little 'ol Mosey to have a large enough team of lawyers to successfully fight the paper storm and get him on the chair. And if there is one thing that boy is afraid of, it's having some lawyer poke at the McPherson case while he's in the chair.

Yeah, but not only the McPherson case - once he's been in the chair every word he might have said there would be "Fair Game" for any lawyer and any journalist. Any weasel words, any dodgy sentence, any "acceptable truth" would be analyzed and ripped apart by real professionals for many years to come.
 

mawena

Patron with Honors
I think you're right. I think the threat of deposition in the Mosey case kept Davy from pulling the trigger against HBO, because HBO is infinitely more likely than little 'ol Mosey to have a large enough team of lawyers to successfully fight the paper storm and get him on the chair. And if there is one thing that boy is afraid of, it's having some lawyer poke at the McPherson case while he's in the chair.

If you listen to Mike Rinder's comments on the Surviving Scientology podcast (I think it was his second episode) he is asked whether he thinks DM will ever grant a media interview. His response is very telling.

From MR the only way that DM will ever speak publicly is if he is forced to do so. Even then I wonder if we will ever hear him speak or if instead we will be treated to more BS from his lawyers and invocation of his 5th amendment rights.

As for the HBO thing I don't think it's the case that they are scared to take them to court. I suspect this may be a money issue given how much litigation they are already involved in. Remember that they have never won a civil a case and they probably know that HBO won't be scared off by a lawsuit and that even if they were, the film is out there and the damage is done.

One thing I've been wondering about this past week is about Co$'s finances. Specifically their liquidity. I suspect that they have big, big liquidity problems and this is a big source of their legal woes. They've spent the last decade dumping all their cash into a real-estate scam and there's no money left for the lawyers! And I can only assume they have to hire more and more wog lawyers who don't work for free or put up with their weird bullshit.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
I think point #3 was true before the Internet. After the Internet? I think you're off by a factor of 100 to 1000 per person, on average. How many people has Chris Shelton reached alone?

Karen#1?

Jenna Miscavige?

I think the average blow who keeps silent in public and only reaches 10 friends and relatives is a thing of the past.

Look at me. I'm a never in from the South. There were two religions where I grew up, Protestant and Catholic. We had, and I kid you not, 2 Jewish kids and 1 Hindu kid as the sum total of non-Christians in our entire High School. The only reason I knew the whole world wasn't whacko fundamentalist was that my parents dragged me across the river to an African American church. And I know what a TR is. I know what Clear is supposed to be. I know how fucked up most OTs are. And it trickles down a generation. My kid is a half Chinese Middle School math and music geek in some podunk little town. Every day she asks me what's the new entheta on this here board.

Look at Mike Rowe and Spanky Taylor. Mike Rowe, Mr. Dirty Jobs, talking about Scientology? Seriously?

Reaching people like that is a a straight up and vertical stat.

I think every blow is probably reaching over 100 people right now, with some of the bigger ones such as Jenna reaching into the millions. If there were ever a million members, a 10:1 ratio would make about 10 million enemies.

I'd estimate the global enemies of the Co$ to be 1 - 2 orders of magnitude larger than that! :yes:


I absolutely agree with your metrics!

I had a similar estimated calculation because of the spreading network of malcontent emanating from just one person like the ripple effect of an SP (Stone Person) hitting the water.

The only reason I didn't boldly project all of the secondary, tertiary and shockwaves (people telling people to avoid Hubbardology at all costs!) is that I thought it might sound overaggressively optimistic.

Buy, hey, you said it--so let's PARTY! LOL

Imagine the Sisyphean task of trying to manage an enterprise like Scientology, while a worldwide army of metastasizing malcontents spread rejection & ridicule to all of your existing and prospective customers!

SPs Rule!
 

CommunicatorIC

@IndieScieNews on Twitter
CinemaBlend: The Going Clear Scientology Documentary Has Been Watched By A Ton Of People

http://www.cinemablend.com/televisi...ary-Has-Been-Watched-By-Ton-People-71325.html

* * * * * BEGIN EXCERPT * * * * *

There’s no denying that HBO’s new documentary Going Clear: Scientology and the Prison of Belief has been a hit. The film premiered to 1.65 million total viewers when it hit the schedule a couple of weeks ago, and new reports indicate that more than 5.5 million people have watched Going Clear since it was made available to subscribers. Those wouldn’t be mind-blowing numbers for a network show, but for a documentary that airs on a subscription cable channel, they're enough to write a news story about.

* * * * * END EXCERPT * * * * *
 

CommunicatorIC

@IndieScieNews on Twitter
The Arkansas Traveler: Going Clear: 6 Things We Learned from HBO’s Documentary on Scientology

http://www.uatrav.com/the_companion/article_25e318a4-e22b-11e4-ad3d-bffe1376abb8.html

Headings:

1. To Study Scientology is to Study the Mind of L. Ron Hubbard

2. The Church “Went to War” With the IRS Over Tax Exemption

3. Sea Organization Members are Abused (whether they are good or bad)

4. The Church Blackmails Its Members with “Audit” Sessions

5. Members are Forced to Disconnect with People Seen as a Threat to the Church

6. The Church Played a Major Role in the Breakup of Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman

Last paragraph:

Bottom Line: Miscavige and current members of the church deny all of these claims and refused to be interviewed for this documentary. But the evidence seen in this film, and the first-hand accounts from former members make it awfully hard to give the church the benefit of the doubt.
 

tetloj

Silver Meritorious Patron

Heard quite a bit of this from Wright before but interesting to hear him talking to Tom Cruise's recent co-star Alec Baldwin about how Tom undoubtedly knows what happens in the Sea Org to those people who are being paid pennies to trick out his hangar and whatever else DM wants to do to spoil his BFF.
 

WildKat

Gold Meritorious Patron

AngeloV

Gold Meritorious Patron
CinemaBlend: The Going Clear Scientology Documentary Has Been Watched By A Ton Of People

http://www.cinemablend.com/televisi...ary-Has-Been-Watched-By-Ton-People-71325.html

* * * * * BEGIN EXCERPT * * * * *

There’s no denying that HBO’s new documentary Going Clear: Scientology and the Prison of Belief has been a hit. The film premiered to 1.65 million total viewers when it hit the schedule a couple of weeks ago, and new reports indicate that more than 5.5 million people have watched Going Clear since it was made available to subscribers. Those wouldn’t be mind-blowing numbers for a network show, but for a documentary that airs on a subscription cable channel, they're enough to write a news story about.

* * * * * END EXCERPT * * * * *

5.5 million HBO subscribers have watched it. That doesn't include views by people who are not subscribers. Last Monday evening, I searched one of the 'free' (wink, wink) websites where you can download a copy.

20,000 people were downloading it.

And that's 2 weeks after it aired. My guess is that many millions more have viewed it from those sites.
 

chipgallo

Patron Meritorious
The "Here's the Thing" interview worked fine for me in Internet Explorer; wouldn't start under Firefox.

Great interview, btw. Nice to hear Alec Baldwin not talking about Alec Baldwin. Turns out he is an empathetic and engaged interviewer.
 

MrNobody

Who needs merits?
<snip>
20,000 people were downloading it.
<snip>

Information from a Torrent seeder:

There are approximately 500 people seeding a full version of that movie, and about 1000 "Peers" and "Leechers" at any given time of the day.

I've personally observed about 500 people having completed their download.

Interesting tidbit: In by far highest demand is a low-quality version that's a few minutes shorter and has a file size of only 1.5 GB. It comes with allegedly dutch subtitles, but they look more like Norwegian or Swedish texts. :shrug:

I have one 5 GB high-quality HD seed in the loop that I haven't started yet because it doesn't play on my computer, but as soon as I've verifies that the file itself is intact and correct, I'll seed that one too.
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
I'm not sure if this has been posted, it's a good one.

Secrets of the Scientologists: Why people do horrible things for belief

Scientology’s persuasiveness is not in the logic of its beliefs but in its ability to control behavior. People believe in Xenu and thetans because it becomes exceedingly difficult not to in light of all they have committed to the church. At the close of “Going Clear,” Haggis reflects on his time within Scientology: “We lock up a portion of our own mind. We willingly put cuffs on. We willingly avoid things that could cause us pain if we just looked.” Each time Marty Rathbun is confronted with his past, he keeps “dying deaths. I don’t know how many more deaths I have left.”

http://www.salon.com/2015/04/17/sec...sts_why_people_do_horrible_things_for_belief/
 
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