Medical malpractice in the Church of Scientology

Sharone Stainforth

Silver Meritorious Patron
Another medical malpractice in Scientology.Back in the late 60s I knew both of these ladies,the one who wrote the affidavit (Hana Eltringham) and also the lady that died Yvonne Gillham (Jensh).

http://web.archive.org/web/20060204205838/whyaretheydead.net/


224. A friend of mine, Yvonne Gillham Jentzsch, died of a brain tumor. In early August 1967 I joined Hubbard's Sea Project in Las Palmas, Canary Islands. Yvonne was already on the ship and we got to know each other well.

225. In 1969 and 1970, while I was stationed in Los Angeles as Deputy Commodore U.S., Yvonne was the Commanding Officer of the first Los Angeles Celebrity Center. We met frequently in a work capacity as well as socially.

226. During the early to mid-1970s, I flew to Los Angeles on assignment several times and met Yvonne.

227. During 1977 we exchanged letters. Her's were shorter than usual, just brief notes. I noticed the change as Yvonne was known for her lengthy letters. She said she was tired, losing weight and getting headaches, all unusual for her. I didn't think much about the last; I also had constant headaches.

228. In late 1977, Yvonne suddenly arrived in Clearwater, very ill. She talked with difficulty, lost track of what she said half way through a sentence and lost her balance while walking. Yvonne told me she had a brain tumor and that she was dying. She said she hadn't seen a doctor because she thought auditing would fix it. The illness started with an "out of balance" feeling which she assigned to lack of sleep. The doctor told Yvonne the tumor was removable if she had seen him earlier. We both cried. I knew auditing did not resolve everything, but I was shocked that her life was wasted through such neglect.

229. She said that Hubbard ordered her to Florida for auditing to ease the transition, meaning death, as well as to do an end of cycle on her "hats" so that someone else could take over her Celebrity Centers after she "dropped her body". One day she cried and blamed herself for the terrible overt of dying and deserting Hubbard. She was in continual pain but wouldn't take pain killers so that she could get auditing. On a later occasion, Yvonne was quite philosophical about her forthcoming death and said she was phasing out of her life and no one should grieve. I knew at that point that Yvonne had had auditing on her nearing death and that, in Scientologese, she had discharged any fear or trauma connected to it. Now I see that what occurred, as with all other auditing, was that Yvonne's reactions to death were temporarily desensitized.

230. Over the next few weeks Yvonne's condition deteriorated rapidly. One day when we were outside, she spoke with increasing difficulty and went unconscious several times for short periods. It took us a long time to get up the stairs from the garden to the building Lobby, even with my help, because she could not coordinate her leg movements. She never received medical treatment of any kind that I know of.

231. Yvonne died in early 1978. No one I know of, except her family, was informed about her death for days or about funeral service. Nor were her close friends, such as I, given an opportunity to do a proper closure with Yvonne. We had a short briefing in which we were told that Yvonne had dropped her body happily and was in good case shape to pick up the next one, and that as this was a happy occasion, there was to be no time wasted in unnecessary grieving. Those most affected were only given auditing sessions.

232. Hubbard, in a published memo after her death, applauded Yvonne's achievements and granted her a leave of absence for twenty one years until she rejoined the Sea Organization in her next reincarnation.

The above statement written by Hana Eltringham and hosted on Mike Gormez' site Why are they dead.Thank You Mike.

Hana's affidavit is extremely harrowing reading.There are many cases of medical malpractice on the statement.
 

Sharone Stainforth

Silver Meritorious Patron
Auditing as a form of medical malpractice:

This from Factnet:(note: I would put the link here but my computer has just gone into lockdown).

Informant has intimate knowledge of sexual perverted conduct of L. Ron Hubbard in Casa Blanca. Personal knowledge of L. Ron Hubbard psychotic behaviour at the villa Lori in Morrocco. Knowledge of the executive use of coercive force on Scientologys staff members. Knows about things called the Truth Rundown, the Black PR Rundown and Rollback procedures.How to audit a pre ot pre OT to a complete psychotic break, how to actually induce those in people.Knowledge of the coercive tactics, fear tactics, intelligence and counter intelligence, and espionage methods used in Scientology to make someone crazy without their knowing it

The following people "he" personally knows to have had psychotic episodes while on auditing. Some of these people are still in the Sea Org. ( I don't know who "he" is

Andy Yarrow
Phil Spline
Nate Jessop
Alex Sibersky
Bill Franks
Bill Foster
Mike Smith
Mrs. Smith
Bill Roberson
Bob Young
Jill Liz Ausley
Ian Shillington
John Segota
Joe van Staden
Carl SG
Harold Simms
Ron Loving
Yuko Sumoko
Gert Anderson
Hokan Yohansen?
Mitch Sperrise
Robin Lindsell
Blake Huffam
Jerome Bloom
Barry Stein
JohnTravolta
Chris Silock( John Travoltas' auditor)
Stephanie Silock (Pricilla Presleys' auditor)
Leslie Epstein
Tom Ashworth
Tony Prybilski
Annie Tidman
Jim Logan Chris Channey
Jonny Sghlessenger
Janadair Swanson
Toby Young
Margaret George
Allan Long
Robin Roos
Hana Eltringham
Ken Urkhart
Dave Murphy
Lola Russow
Bert Russow
Paul Illot

All the above underlined people I either knew or knew of on board the Apollo back in the 60s.

The document also goes on to mention both Diana Hubbard (Horowich) and Quentin Hubbard as having "psychotic" episodes, both of whom I knew on the Apollo.

And this:

1976: - xxxxxpsychosis. I went nuts on Power and Power plus. Right over the edge. I thought I was moving through space, and that I didn't have my new ability under control. I'd be driving down the Hollywood Freeway, and I'd find myself in downtown LA, with no idea how i'd got there. Then I started itching all over, under my skin, like an allergy. My nerves were shot. I was the acting ED of Larry Glucks' school, while he was at Flag, and I was rapidly losing my hold on reality, I went to ASHO to tell them I was PTS or something. They put me in session, told me I was a "completion" and routed me out. No Reg cycle, nothing. I could barely scrawl the success story. I was in a daze. I quit Larrys' school a couple of days later, and wentback to Northern California wher it took me months to be able to function normally again.

This to me sounds very similar to what happened to my Dad, only sadly he never went on to function normally ever again.

This is just the tip of the iceburg, and not including all the suicides and unexplained deaths that have happened directly because of Scientology auditing and or Ethics cycles, including the RPF.
 

Markus

Silver Meritorious Patron
Thank you Sharone

Auditing as a form of medical malpractice:

This from Factnet:(note: I would put the link here but my computer has just gone into lockdown).

Informant has intimate knowledge of sexual perverted conduct of L. Ron Hubbard in Casa Blanca. Personal knowledge of L. Ron Hubbard psychotic behaviour at the villa Lori in Morrocco. Knowledge of the executive use of coercive force on Scientologys staff members. Knows about things called the Truth Rundown, the Black PR Rundown and Rollback procedures.How to audit a pre ot pre OT to a complete psychotic break, how to actually induce those in people.Knowledge of the coercive tactics, fear tactics, intelligence and counter intelligence, and espionage methods used in Scientology to make someone crazy without their knowing it

The following people "he" personally knows to have had psychotic episodes while on auditing. Some of these people are still in the Sea Org. ( I don't know who "he" is

Andy Yarrow
Phil Spline
Nate Jessop
Alex Sibersky
Bill Franks
Bill Foster
Mike Smith
Mrs. Smith
Bill Roberson
Bob Young
Jill Liz Ausley
Ian Shillington
John Segota
Joe van Staden
Carl SG
Harold Simms
Ron Loving
Yuko Sumoko
Gert Anderson
Hokan Yohansen?
Mitch Sperrise
Robin Lindsell
Blake Huffam
Jerome Bloom
Barry Stein
JohnTravolta
Chris Silock( John Travoltas' auditor)
Stephanie Silock (Pricilla Presleys' auditor)
Leslie Epstein
Tom Ashworth
Tony Prybilski
Annie Tidman
Jim Logan Chris Channey
Jonny Sghlessenger
Janadair Swanson
Toby Young
Margaret George
Allan Long
Robin Roos
Hana Eltringham
Ken Urkhart
Dave Murphy
Lola Russow
Bert Russow
Paul Illot

All the above underlined people I either knew or knew of on board the Apollo back in the 60s.

The document also goes on to mention both Diana Hubbard (Horowich) and Quentin Hubbard as having "psychotic" episodes, both of whom I knew on the Apollo.

And this:

1976: - xxxxxpsychosis. I went nuts on Power and Power plus. Right over the edge. I thought I was moving through space, and that I didn't have my new ability under control. I'd be driving down the Hollywood Freeway, and I'd find myself in downtown LA, with no idea how i'd got there. Then I started itching all over, under my skin, like an allergy. My nerves were shot. I was the acting ED of Larry Glucks' school, while he was at Flag, and I was rapidly losing my hold on reality, I went to ASHO to tell them I was PTS or something. They put me in session, told me I was a "completion" and routed me out. No Reg cycle, nothing. I could barely scrawl the success story. I was in a daze. I quit Larrys' school a couple of days later, and wentback to Northern California wher it took me months to be able to function normally again.

This to me sounds very similar to what happened to my Dad, only sadly he never went on to function normally ever again.

This is just the tip of the iceburg, and not including all the suicides and unexplained deaths that have happened directly because of Scientology auditing and or Ethics cycles, including the RPF.

Thank you for posting this here Sharone.

Best wishes

Markus
 

NonScio

Patron Meritorious
Strictly speaking, the problem is not so much medical malpractice
by scientology. The problem is that scientologists may attempt
to practice medicine without qualifications nor State License to
do so. I believe that legally, only a qualified and Licensed Medical
Practioner...an M.D. etc can be guilty of medical malpractice...
which is usually a civil rather than criminal matter.
Practicing medicine without a license is a criminal matter; that
is where scientology may be crossing the line and may be
subject to criminal sanction.
 

Markus

Silver Meritorious Patron
Thank you for stating this more precisely.

Strictly speaking, the problem is not so much medical malpractice
by scientology. The problem is that scientologists may attempt
to practice medicine without qualifications nor State License to
do so. I believe that legally, only a qualified and Licensed Medical
Practioner...an M.D. etc can be guilty of medical malpractice...
which is usually a civil rather than criminal matter.
Practicing medicine without a license is a criminal matter; that
is where scientology may be crossing the line and may be
subject to criminal sanction.


In the case of my brother Uwe it seems to be a mixture of medical malpractice of the Scientology MD and the Scientology friendly hospitals and practicing medicine without a license by the Church of Scientology in making my brother believe that auditing could help him to cure his MS.

Love

Markus
 

Bee Sting

Patron with Honors
Medical Malpractice in Scientology

I believe it is a true statement that Scientology is practicing medical malpractice not just under their regime of David Miscaviage but in the original writings and teachings of Scientology. It is part of the fundamental scriptures of Scientology.

Scientology and the practice of Dianetics teach a new Scientologist that the all physical ailments, the knowingness to everything in this world and consequently the answer to everything exist “through the mind.” For example, in the early indoctrinations to this so called “religion” new students learn to perform “touch assists” to “cure” things such as a cold or flu.

If the cold or flu persist longer than 72 hours or three days, the PC (God forbid, OT's would never get flu’s, do they?) Well, anyhow it is not up to the tech of LRH to play doctor. It’s for those trained as a medical professional. So, when a Scientologist is practicing the Scientology “art” of healing, it is medical malpractice by definition or as this Bee Sting interprets the phrase “medical malpractice.”

Exact copy from Wikipedia:
Medical malpractice is professional negligence by act or omission by a health care provider in which care provided deviates from accepted standards of practice in the medical community and causes injury or death to the patient.

So, let’s examine the above is a bit deeper. Wikipedia continues to explain this further but I am not quoting or adding to the text now, I merely speaking my opinion and drawing my own personal conclusion based upon my understanding of what medical practice really is and how it relates to Scientology and the thread here, Medical Malpractice in Scientology. Later, I will you give my own testimony supporting my conclusions.

There are four elements as I read, that I understand constitute medical malpractice. The first, a duty was owed to the patient in the moment the health provider undertook the care of the patient. In other words, the health provider promised medical care for the ailment the patient came to see the healer.

So, how does that relate to Scientology in Bee Sting’s words? Well…. -

When Scientology promises that they can deliver the “cure” or “have the answer” to the cause of all illness and disease and/or can permanently improve a patient or rid the patient of any kind of illness or disease and don’t deliver on that promise, it is medical malpractice.

Scientology calls this person seeking treatment (the patient), a Pre-Clear and Scientology processing promise it can help the PC rid them of the “bank.” The bank being the place where the reason for the illness is held, kept or stored and stated as true fact by believers (Scientologists) also described in the book Dianetics, Modern Science of Mental Health published in 1950 by L. Ron Hubbard (LRH). The belief in Dianetics is adopted as the base of the religious teachings and practice of Scientology.

Dianetics imply the reason or cause of illness and disease is stored in the bank. A “bank” is owned, possessed or belonging to each person or rather in Scientology language, a person is a THETAN, the word closely related to the word soul. The thetan is the owner of the bank but need Scientology processing to remove it.

So, in other words, the “religious” processing of Scientology called “auditing” imply that if you rob the vault of the bank… the vault is left empty, then if there is nothing left in the vault, there is no reason for the bank to exist, and there is no longer anything left to be at cause for illness or disease, is there?

But how it becomes medical malpractice is where the absence of proof there is such as thing in existence as the “bank” (the container of the reason for illness and disease), that prompts the healer to promise “treatment” of the bank where the treatment consists of removing a “bank.”

The removal of those causes, or things at cause is done through a “religious” processing called auditing and at that moment LRH’s tech and the person making the promise the bank can be removed, the “bank”, the place that hold the reason for all ailments, illness or disease, Scientologists are practicing medical malpractice unless there is undoubtedly proof the this “religious care" or auditing achieved it’s promised results (the removal of the bank) and consequently removal of all illness and disease.

The problem here is if the bank has not been proven, has a medical condition or cause of the medical condition truly been determined? So, if it was promised to the Pre-Clear that he or she would be ridden of any illness or disease through Scientology processing (auditing), it was a duty established by the care taker (Scientology “religious teachings” and Scientologist making that promise) to the patient (the Pre-Clear.)

That leads me to reason number two, if the duty was breached, in other words if Scientology processing failed to achieve the results a promised, the standard of care was breached. Whether the applied remedy was auditing or the “touch assist” is irrelevant and to blame the patient for substandard care is no excuse. The facts are that when the practice of Scientology promises an effective remedy and when it fails, it has no right to blame the patient.

The importance here is that the standard of care is proved by an expert testimony. The “expert” must be sufficient in knowledge, education, training or experience regarding the specific issue, the medical condition. The “expert” must have a reliable foundation and experience relevant to the condition of the patient but (and) also a) prove a “theory or technique”, b) “been subjected to peer review” c) in respect of a) above, have a “known potential rate of error” and c), “standards of controlling the techniques operations.”

Ok! In Bee’s summation, the above paragraph how it means relating to Scientology and malpractice; 1) Any designated “Medical Officer” in the Sea Org specifically have no, zip, na-na nada training or accredited certification, experience in the medical field whatsoever to act or make any kind of representation as a medical professional required by the Church of Scientology that I know of. Period! Note, I said required!

No designated Medical Officer in the Sea Org., has any of the above conditions nor can he/she prove anything in the above paragraph and if Scientology assigns tasks as Medical Officers, it need to be proven in what I refer to as “expert testimony.” So, it is medical malpractice by the Church of Scientology because Medical Officers are not required to be trained in the medical professional field, have accredited certifications nor experience. (Prove me wrong, I can mention names!)

So, if the breach caused any type of damage or injury is reason number three why the practice of Scientology is medical malpractice.

And, if the breach caused damages we are at number four, the reason why the practiced religion of Scientology is medical malpractice because even if non-economic damages such as physiological and psychological, reduced enjoyment of life as the result of number three, the breach caused disability or lack of care preventing or treating the disability, loss of loved one, sever pain and emotional distress as the cause of number two is leading to number three, it is medical malpractice. And, damages include death and/or suicide.

My opinion!

Honey Love,

Bee Sting
 

Bee Sting

Patron with Honors
Thank you Markus for posting this! And, thank you Tory for speaking out.

Exactly! Scientology, the Church, Scientology processing, Dianetics IS medical malpractice. Period!

My heart and prayers go out to John Travolta although he'll never know it. I hope he'll spend time researching Autism and what help is out there and it'll be a tough road. As a parent, I understand the guilt and the “if only” and what not’s JT might face. Perhaps he already knew but could not allow himself to admit it? Well, I'll still keep him in my thoughts and prayers.

When I was in the Sea Org, I got very sick. It came on very sudden. I found myself in great deal of muscle pain and excruciating back pain. The glands located underneath my jaw (not sure what they are called) were hard, painful and my cheeks swollen. My entire body was stiff and I had a hard time rising out of bed.

I had no fever but my other symptoms where muscle aches, fatigue, stiffness, swelling of my cheeks and hard lumps under my jaws. I could barely get out of bed. My jaws were locked and I could only open my mouth enough to make a small (hairline) separation between my bottom teeth and upper teeth.

I reported my sudden illness to Medical Officer. I though I had the mumps. Well, soon as I realized my "handling" and isolation, and my "medical" treatment, well, to make it short, 24 hours later I decided I was eh, well.

I couldn't face the separation of my toddler son and the ethics handling horrified me so much that in no way, was I going to be removed from post. The swelling of my face was more noticeable to me than anyone else so I lucked out in my scheme of denial. I was determined not to be taken off post and I was allowed to return 2 days later.

The next few weeks and months were not very pretty. I could not get out of bed without "rolling" my self to end of the mattress, positioning my legs so when I "rolled" my feet would hit the floor and I could "heave" my self into a standing position. My vision became blurred on occasion but not all the time. It seemed as it came but quickly went.

Parts of my legs were tingling and my feet were numb. My back hurt, my joints in every limb of my body hurt. The kind of hurt you would feel if you were to hit your thumb with a hammer instead of the nail, dull and bruised.

Once I was "up" after rolling out of bed I could pretty much manage the rest of the day but my walking and moving was much like a stiff board. When I tried to sit down, I basically positioned my butt on top of the seat of the chair and fell down, literally fell.

When I needed to rise from a sitting position, I grabbed with my hands clutched together as in praying, placed them under my knees and lifted my legs into a position where both my feet were flat on the floor and used the table to heave myself into an upright position. If there would not have been a table there or anything I could have used as support, I would have been in deep trouble.

Every muscle hurt with a dull bruised feeling. I was physically unable to carry my toddler for any lenght of distance. I needed a wall to lean onto to be able to release him out of my arms bascially I dropped him down onto his feet.

I spent many weeks prying my jaw open, forcing one finger in the separation between my teeth of the upper and lower jaw. I could not eat any solid foods for along time because my jaw wouldn’t open and I could not chew. Eventually, I was able to get an opening about ½ inch or so and I forced my jaws to chew. It was painful but I had no desire to face any ethics handling and most certainly I was not going to be removed from post.

I thought of going to the Hospital on my liberty but I was too afraid they would find out I was seeking medical help so, I didn’t go. I hid my illness very well. I pretended I had no pain but in reality, it just wanted to go to sleep and never wake up.

I was starving. I couldn’t eat because I couldn’t get anything into my mouth. I couldn’t chew and had a hard time swallowing but most of all, I couldn’t tell. I didn’t want because I believed the consequences of being sick were more devastating so, I choose starvation.

I was small when I joined the Sea Org about 110 lbs. and 5’4 feet tall. I don’t know my weight when I left but when I looked at myself in the mirrors, I could easily count every rib of my rib cage.

My symptoms resemble MS but I don’t know that for sure. I’ve only had one or two occasion of relapse of this mysterious stiffness and pain since I left. Except, for every now and then when I get that same bruised feeling in a joint somewhere.

I call it my “little gremlin.” So, far my gremlin has visited every joint in my feet, my hands, elbow, knees and even my teeth but eventually goes away. I never bothered to have it diagnosed so I don’t know what my illness was or is.

No one should ever have to feel that they can’t seek medical help if they need it. Denial of professional medical care is medical malpractice. The philosophy of Dianetics and teachings in Scientology prevent its parishioners from seeking professional medical care and thus deny their rights and freedom to informed choice.

If I felt I had the choice I would have sought the opinion of a doctor to diagnose and treat my condition when I was in the Sea Org. I was denied that right.

After I left, my symptoms have been short in duration and mild compared to what I went through. I think my judgment when I should seek medical care have been severely obscured by the indoctrination of Dianetics and Scientology. I do blame the "tech" for my past decisions but I hold only myself responsible for current conditions.

Honey Love,

Bee Sting
 
Beesting it's difficult to feel sympathy for you if you just don't bother getting it diagnosed. You may be able to save unecessary suffering. You may be able to prevent an acute situation or ongoing damage to your system. Why not see if there is something that will give you "insurance", that is, help your body, help yourself.

With the bad nutrition in the SO, it is possibly just a nutritional thing. I have been in pain myself at times and assumed it was going to stay. Very minimum simple treatment has dealt with it completely.
 

Markus

Silver Meritorious Patron
You are so right on this Bee Sting

I believe it is a true statement that Scientology is practicing medical malpractice not just under their regime of David Miscaviage but in the original writings and teachings of Scientology. It is part of the fundamental scriptures of Scientology.

Scientology and the practice of Dianetics teach a new Scientologist that the all physical ailments, the knowingness to everything in this world and consequently the answer to everything exist “through the mind.” For example, in the early indoctrinations to this so called “religion” new students learn to perform “touch assists” to “cure” things such as a cold or flu.

If the cold or flu persist longer than 72 hours or three days, the PC (God forbid, OT's would never get flu’s, do they?) Well, anyhow it is not up to the tech of LRH to play doctor. It’s for those trained as a medical professional. So, when a Scientologist is practicing the Scientology “art” of healing, it is medical malpractice by definition or as this Bee Sting interprets the phrase “medical malpractice.”

Exact copy from Wikipedia:
Medical malpractice is professional negligence by act or omission by a health care provider in which care provided deviates from accepted standards of practice in the medical community and causes injury or death to the patient.

So, let’s examine the above is a bit deeper. Wikipedia continues to explain this further but I am not quoting or adding to the text now, I merely speaking my opinion and drawing my own personal conclusion based upon my understanding of what medical practice really is and how it relates to Scientology and the thread here, Medical Malpractice in Scientology. Later, I will you give my own testimony supporting my conclusions.

There are four elements as I read, that I understand constitute medical malpractice. The first, a duty was owed to the patient in the moment the health provider undertook the care of the patient. In other words, the health provider promised medical care for the ailment the patient came to see the healer.

So, how does that relate to Scientology in Bee Sting’s words? Well…. -

When Scientology promises that they can deliver the “cure” or “have the answer” to the cause of all illness and disease and/or can permanently improve a patient or rid the patient of any kind of illness or disease and don’t deliver on that promise, it is medical malpractice.

Scientology calls this person seeking treatment (the patient), a Pre-Clear and Scientology processing promise it can help the PC rid them of the “bank.” The bank being the place where the reason for the illness is held, kept or stored and stated as true fact by believers (Scientologists) also described in the book Dianetics, Modern Science of Mental Health published in 1950 by L. Ron Hubbard (LRH). The belief in Dianetics is adopted as the base of the religious teachings and practice of Scientology.

Dianetics imply the reason or cause of illness and disease is stored in the bank. A “bank” is owned, possessed or belonging to each person or rather in Scientology language, a person is a THETAN, the word closely related to the word soul. The thetan is the owner of the bank but need Scientology processing to remove it.

So, in other words, the “religious” processing of Scientology called “auditing” imply that if you rob the vault of the bank… the vault is left empty, then if there is nothing left in the vault, there is no reason for the bank to exist, and there is no longer anything left to be at cause for illness or disease, is there?

But how it becomes medical malpractice is where the absence of proof there is such as thing in existence as the “bank” (the container of the reason for illness and disease), that prompts the healer to promise “treatment” of the bank where the treatment consists of removing a “bank.”

The removal of those causes, or things at cause is done through a “religious” processing called auditing and at that moment LRH’s tech and the person making the promise the bank can be removed, the “bank”, the place that hold the reason for all ailments, illness or disease, Scientologists are practicing medical malpractice unless there is undoubtedly proof the this “religious care" or auditing achieved it’s promised results (the removal of the bank) and consequently removal of all illness and disease.

The problem here is if the bank has not been proven, has a medical condition or cause of the medical condition truly been determined? So, if it was promised to the Pre-Clear that he or she would be ridden of any illness or disease through Scientology processing (auditing), it was a duty established by the care taker (Scientology “religious teachings” and Scientologist making that promise) to the patient (the Pre-Clear.)

That leads me to reason number two, if the duty was breached, in other words if Scientology processing failed to achieve the results a promised, the standard of care was breached. Whether the applied remedy was auditing or the “touch assist” is irrelevant and to blame the patient for substandard care is no excuse. The facts are that when the practice of Scientology promises an effective remedy and when it fails, it has no right to blame the patient.

The importance here is that the standard of care is proved by an expert testimony. The “expert” must be sufficient in knowledge, education, training or experience regarding the specific issue, the medical condition. The “expert” must have a reliable foundation and experience relevant to the condition of the patient but (and) also a) prove a “theory or technique”, b) “been subjected to peer review” c) in respect of a) above, have a “known potential rate of error” and c), “standards of controlling the techniques operations.”

Ok! In Bee’s summation, the above paragraph how it means relating to Scientology and malpractice; 1) Any designated “Medical Officer” in the Sea Org specifically have no, zip, na-na nada training or accredited certification, experience in the medical field whatsoever to act or make any kind of representation as a medical professional required by the Church of Scientology that I know of. Period! Note, I said required!

No designated Medical Officer in the Sea Org., has any of the above conditions nor can he/she prove anything in the above paragraph and if Scientology assigns tasks as Medical Officers, it need to be proven in what I refer to as “expert testimony.” So, it is medical malpractice by the Church of Scientology because Medical Officers are not required to be trained in the medical professional field, have accredited certifications nor experience. (Prove me wrong, I can mention names!)

So, if the breach caused any type of damage or injury is reason number three why the practice of Scientology is medical malpractice.

And, if the breach caused damages we are at number four, the reason why the practiced religion of Scientology is medical malpractice because even if non-economic damages such as physiological and psychological, reduced enjoyment of life as the result of number three, the breach caused disability or lack of care preventing or treating the disability, loss of loved one, sever pain and emotional distress as the cause of number two is leading to number three, it is medical malpractice. And, damages include death and/or suicide.

My opinion!

Honey Love,

Bee Sting

What a wonderful and very true post! :clap: :clap: :clap:

Thank you Bee Sting:bighug:

Love

Markus
 

Bee Sting

Patron with Honors
Beesting it's difficult to feel sympathy for you if you just don't bother getting it diagnosed. You may be able to save unecessary suffering. You may be able to prevent an acute situation or ongoing damage to your system. Why not see if there is something that will give you "insurance", that is, help your body, help yourself.

With the bad nutrition in the SO, it is possibly just a nutritional thing. I have been in pain myself at times and assumed it was going to stay. Very minimum simple treatment has dealt with it completely.

DB,

I am not looking for sympathy or pity. :duh: In the moment of remembering, there's a lot of charge and mis-emotions... but those things pass. It's just how I write.

But, Scientology is wrong for not providing medical care. And, true what I said was I am responsible for my current condition nevertheless, the influence of Scientology did in the past, hold me back from seeking medical treatment. Now, I do not believe auditing works in healing physical illness or disease or give anyone super being powers. Personally, I think a nice shoulder rub or massage or manicure or hot bubble bath is more effective than a touch assist. I little bit of honey in a warm cup of tea work wonders, too. :happydance:

I think I'm all grown up now :D to know better and if I need to, I will.


See, when you are in a place and have nowhere to go, no one to call, no one to talk to and when ones is set up to believe one is a complete failure because the body get sick, or face (real or imagined) the possibility of being eh, "thrown out" into a world completely unknown, it can be a little bit eh, emotionally stressful?.. a foreign country ... well, anyhow, does that clear up the pity stuff?

The point here is, and perhaps I was no too clear since my head got stuck in the mud, is that the Sea Org do not provide for it's members, they do not care, there were no such thing as making an appointment to see a doctor nor, did I ever hear of any staff getting time off for medical care.

I hid my predicament and it could have been caused by malnutrition or the lovely little black bugs in the soup and salad. The foul chicken didn't help either but Judy was a good cook. It could have been anything but it resembled symptoms of MS but now we will not know unless I get sick again.

So, let's focus on the thread here because that's where I was going with it...(trying to) Scientology practices medical malpractice if (which I've known them to do) imply going clear and auditing removes the element (the bank) that causes illness or disease.

If one choose to believe in a different point of view of healing, such as natural, holistic remedies that's fine but, where it crosses the line is when the individual is prevented, denied or otherwise intomidated etc to seek traditional professional medical care. It is that, in my opinion when Scientology is playing "doctor" without a medical license because the Scientologists is not allowed and informed choice.

Seeking other choices outside the tech is not preferred nor allowed (it wasn't when I was in.) It was frowned upon and otherwise, in many different ways discouraged. And that is in my opinion grounds for medical malpractice. Period! Unless, you can prove to me that the "tech" does really cure illnesses and disease, does it? Who, when where? Time, Form and Event, please.

Or, perhaps the secret in curing cancer lie in the amount of cash available for immediate withdrawal? Whatever!

Had I had the choice, or felt I could I would have done what I should have done, get medical care. Instead, I choose a different path because the consequences were not an option. Hey, had you been there saying, I'll give a place to sleep I'd been there in a heartbeat!

I am not very kind with this nor will I ever be... true, there is lots of charge here but that's what wogs have that Sci-Fiology can't take away... and I choose not to, either.

Ok, perhaps there is just one little bit of more that is bugging the heck out me... my son... (sigh!)

The Finance Police came into the Org and a whole bunch of other people, not sure how this all happened now but all the children had to be taken to the free clinic. Tests were made, check ups blood work etc.

I'm skipping things here.. the bottom line my son's tests showed his health and future prognosis was not promising... now, I am not going to get into details because it is not a sympathy, pity here. It's true and real facts.

I did not receive the results of his test until months later. It was by cheer accident or, well perhaps parental intuition I made an appointment for him but it was life threatening. The doctor told me they had tried to contact me but SO in their normal "tech" stupidity, told the doctor I had left not just the town or state but country!

My son got his treatment but no, I am not forgiving here! It's my son, my child and I truly feel he was punished for my choices and that is not OK!

Honey Love,

Bee Sting
 
Beesting: Ok, I did use the word "sympathy" but I know you weren't out fishing for it, and as for the time you were in the SO I know the SO makes it extremely difficult to get treatment, and in fact creates conditions for people to get worse. I see them as the responsible party there because people would just go to the clinic/doctor/hospital if there was not some kind of threat(s) for doing so.
 
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Bee Sting

Patron with Honors
Beesting: Ok, I did use the word "sympathy" but I know you weren't out fishing for it, and as for the time you were in the SO I know the SO makes it extremely difficult to get treatment, and in fact creates conditions for people to get worse. I see them as the responsible party there because people would just go to the clinic/doctor/hospital if there was not some kind of threat(s) for doing so.[/quote]

DB, Thanks! and

Exactly! :coolwink: (Thanks for seeing that!)

And that's one reason why I think “they” carry out medical malpractice because the option is not there. Also, I what I don't get is the ethics handling they enforce being PTS and so forth when one is sick. What I've seen are (scientologist and Sea Org) members that had not achieved the state of clear and were not all are OT's so, eh, I’d think it's a bit out gradient for some and contradictory to the tech because how can you enforce full blown ethics handling for those whom have not yet achieved the ability to “handle” their bank? The ethics system is applied at a standard of “one size fit all.” That’s just not ok!

Ok, so now I’m getting a bit off the thread here. But, I think “they” are wrong in not providing or allowing the opportunity for staff to seek professional medical advice and/or care. It’s not like a Sea Org member can schedule and appointment and request time off to go. Time off is as you know, called Liberty and only allowed every other week but that is if, the personal stats are up. DUH! Now, how suppressive is that? If I’m sick how the heck can I keep up my stats? It’s a vicious circle.

I like being a wog because actually, it makes me a more responsible person for myself. If I don’t’ seek help when I get sick, whether that help would be with a doctor or me just sleeping for 24 hours, it is still my choice. And, the consequences are mine. I made that decision..

Just to add one thing, after I left the Sea Org I was still married to a Scientologist (Ex-SO) so, for me Scientology and the Church never left. I was still “in”, so to speak.

Sigh! Ok, I’m getting offline but thanks, DB. Thanks for your understanding.

Honey Love,

Bee Sting
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
Beesting, I really understand where you are coming from and empathise with your story. It's hard to understand perhaps unless it happens to you. When I had a similar situation I was not staff, just full time setting up a scio school. My situation was so serious that my legs were literally turning in their sockets, excruitiating pain in every major joint, fever, weight loss, yet I carried on because I felt I had to. I only went to 'approved' chiros etc and it wasn't until one told me he couldn't help and I had better get medical help fast - I realised how serious the situation was and I finally found the right medical doctor to save my life. No-one around me gave a shit as long as I did what I was supposed to. I've written elsewhere how I carried a small plastic stool with me so I could walk a few steps and sit etc.

Why I continued this for months is beyond comprehension until you get the whole picture of how scientology views the medical profession and the individual's right to it, and how brainwashed we were to agree with that.

It stinks! :grouch:
 

Bee Sting

Patron with Honors
WOW!

Beesting, I really understand where you are coming from and empathise with your story. It's hard to understand perhaps unless it happens to you. When I had a similar situation I was not staff, just full time setting up a scio school. My situation was so serious that my legs were literally turning in their sockets, excruitiating pain in every major joint, fever, weight loss, yet I carried on because I felt I had to. I only went to 'approved' chiros etc and it wasn't until one told me he couldn't help and I had better get medical help fast - I realised how serious the situation was and I finally found the right medical doctor to save my life. No-one around me gave a shit as long as I did what I was supposed to. I've written elsewhere how I carried a small plastic stool with me so I could walk a few steps and sit etc.

Why I continued this for months is beyond comprehension until you get the whole picture of how scientology views the medical profession and the individual's right to it, and how brainwashed we were to agree with that.

It stinks! :grouch:

YEAH! It bleep-bleep-bleep really bleep STINKS! And, yeah it is that underlying Dianetics, basic scientology philosophy that creates this medical point of view. It's a bunch of things... and how we mocked up the game, our bodies and so on looking at Dianetics and Scientology from a global point of view.

Glad you got help! And, I hope you are staying pain free. It's so uncomprehensible now (looking back) how could I agree to all that? .. it is definetly behaviorial modification. Manipulation would be a better word.

No, no, mental HI-JACKING or hi-jacking of the mind would be more precise I think and once hi-jacked, we're held hostage by the "group" agreement. Weren't group agreements supposed to be "bank" material...:confused2:

Sigh! Ok, getting into a tangen so... Thanks for your post and sharing your story.

Honey Love,

Bee Sting
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
YEAH! It bleep-bleep-bleep really bleep STINKS! And, yeah it is that underlying Dianetics, basic scientology philosophy that creates this medical point of view. It's a bunch of things... and how we mocked up the game, our bodies and so on looking at Dianetics and Scientology from a global point of view.

Glad you got help! And, I hope you are staying pain free. It's so uncomprehensible now (looking back) how could I agree to all that? .. it is definetly behaviorial modification. Manipulation would be a better word.

No, no, mental HI-JACKING or hi-jacking of the mind would be more precise I think and once hi-jacked, we're held hostage by the "group" agreement. Weren't group agreements supposed to be "bank" material...:confused2:

Sigh! Ok, getting into a tangen so... Thanks for your post and sharing your story.

Honey Love,

Bee Sting

Honey one, when I first read your story I wondered if it was tetanus, I meant to comment. If it was and you survived, you are one lucky bee indeed. And we are both lucky now to be able to look after ourselves properly. In my case the story is not over by a long shot, but I am happy to be alive and able to do a lot of things sitting down! :D

http://www.emedicinehealth.com/tetanus/page3_em.htm#Tetanus Symptoms

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetanus
 

Markus

Silver Meritorious Patron
These are exactly the points I'm accusing the Cos of!

"I did not receive the results of his test until months later. It was by cheer accident or, well perhaps parental intuition I made an appointment for him but it was life threatening. The doctor told me they had tried to contact me but SO in their normal "tech" stupidity, told the doctor I had left not just the town or state but country!

My son got his treatment but no, I am not forgiving here! It's my son, my child and I truly feel he was punished for my choices and that is not OK!"



"the SO makes it extremely difficult to get treatment, and in fact creates conditions for people to get worse. I see them as the responsible party there because people would just go to the clinic/doctor/hospital if there was not some kind of threat(s) for doing so."

"When I had a similar situation I was not staff, just full time setting up a scio school. My situation was so serious that my legs were literally turning in their sockets, excruitiating pain in every major joint, fever, weight loss, yet I carried on because I felt I had to. I only went to 'approved' chiros etc and it wasn't until one told me he couldn't help and I had better get medical help fast - I realised how serious the situation was and I finally found the right medical doctor to save my life. No-one around me gave a shit as long as I did what I was supposed to. I've written elsewhere how I carried a small plastic stool with me so I could walk a few steps and sit etc."

"And, yeah it is that underlying Dianetics, basic scientology philosophy that creates this medical point of view. It's a bunch of things... and how we mocked up the game, our bodies and so on looking at Dianetics and Scientology from a global point of view"

"It's so uncomprehensible now (looking back) how could I agree to all that? .. it is definetly behaviorial modification. Manipulation would be a better word.

No, no, mental HI-JACKING or hi-jacking of the mind would be more precise I think and once hi-jacked, we're held hostage by the "group" agreement. Weren't group agreements supposed to be "bank" material..."

All this describes exactly the trap Uwe was in and how the Church of Scientology and its crazy believes very clearly is responsible for his early death. And in addition he defenitely blew from his post as Security Chief Int shortly after he recognized in which trap he was with his severe illness. Then his own wife lured him back in. Exactly in the same period of time Uwe wanted to visit us in Germany. Now I know that he was not allowed to travel because he was assigned to the RPF. The next huge crime in this cruel story. I'm sure if he would have been able to make this journey we would have been able to find out 6 years earlier that he suffered from MS. And the whole story would have been able to find a total different direction. And I'M sure Uwe would still be alive today then.....
But he was left alone in the RPF. In my experience ill people need one thing above all - LOVE!!- this was the one thing Uwe never got in this crazy cult.


Love

Markus
 
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Bee Sting

Patron with Honors
Hi Free TO (and is) Shining :wink2: ,

Real spooky. Since I've never had is diagnosed it is similar, too. The lockjaw definitely fit but the tetanus vaccination... I left Europe and I was required to have certain vaccinations... but yes, it is curious especially since our berthing was littered with coch roaches. AND we had the never ending LICE that many Sea Org members were denying...

Yes, that could be a possibility perhaps it that was coupled with poor diet. BAD ROTTEN FOOD and :omg: squalors in some places.. hence coch roaches, black bugs and yes, one more additive.... LEAD! YES, LEAD dust ... Ok, I'll stop now.

I think indeed we are lucky to be alive not just physical body health wise but mentally too (ok, sort of... :stickpoke: ) . Not sure what I'll have (had) or how I'll be when I turn 60 but I am grateful I am in a good place now, health wise that is.. mentally... eh, well, when Scio stops practicing malpractice Earth will be a better place (populated by EARTHLINGS not marcabian xenuling thingy beings :hmm:) ... Whatever they are, were or whom they may be..

Thanks for the links :thumbsup: ! Yeah, lucky in many ways I hope:yes: because ~ it is nice to find support, commaraderie and the reality we now can make our own decisions when it comes to our health care and well being after leaving Sci-Fiology. It's a nice bonus in the World Of Good Stuff ) aka WOGS! :coolwink:

Honey Love,

Bee Sting
 

Markus

Silver Meritorious Patron
Hi Free TO (and is) Shining :wink2: ,

Real spooky. Since I've never had is diagnosed it is similar, too. The lockjaw definitely fit but the tetanus vaccination... I left Europe and I was required to have certain vaccinations... but yes, it is curious especially since our berthing was littered with coch roaches. AND we had the never ending LICE that many Sea Org members were denying...

Yes, that could be a possibility perhaps it that was coupled with poor diet. BAD ROTTEN FOOD and :omg: squalors in some places.. hence coch roaches, black bugs and yes, one more additive.... LEAD! YES, LEAD dust ... Ok, I'll stop now.

I think indeed we are lucky to be alive not just physical body health wise but mentally too (ok, sort of... :stickpoke: )
. Not sure what I'll have (had) or how I'll be when I turn 60 but I am grateful I am in a good place now, health wise that is.. mentally... eh, well, when Scio stops practicing malpractice Earth will be a better place (populated by EARTHLINGS not marcabian xenuling thingy beings :hmm:) ... Whatever they are, were or whom they may be..

Thanks for the links :thumbsup: ! Yeah, lucky in many ways I hope:yes: because ~ it is nice to find support, commaraderie and the reality we now can make our own decisions when it comes to our health care and well being after leaving Sci-Fiology. It's a nice bonus in the World Of Good Stuff ) aka WOGS! :coolwink:

Honey Love,

Bee Sting

Oh my god! How dreadfull is this. The Sea Org of the Church of Scientology "the most ethical place in the world"?? :no:
My heart goes out to you! And I pray every night that you will soon be reunited with your son.

Much love
Markus
 
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