Medical malpractice in the Church of Scientology

Gadfly

Crusader
Oh my god! How dreadfull is this. The Sea Org of the Church of Scientology "the most ethical place in the world"?? :no:
My heart goes out to you! And I pray every night that you will soon be reunited with your son.

Much love
Markus

What is totally crazy is that with THEIR definition of ethics they ARE the most "ethical" on the planet. How so?

To them "ethics" means solving any problem with the solution that results in the "greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics". That doesn't sound so bad, right?

But, the solution is ALWAYS loaded and over-balanced in THEIR favor. How?

You need to first understand the various FIXED IDEAS, and the BELIEFS that each Church member MUST harbor, hold or agree with (to remain a Church member).

Here they are; they BELIEVE these ideas completely.

1) Scn is the ONLY workable solution for all Man's spiritual woes, and all Man's problems, past, present and future. (they BELIEVE this shit completely - it is part of KSW) The attitude is indoctrinated that ALL other mental systems or spiritual methods do NOT work, have never worked, and that the wonderful genius LRH somehow magically came up with it all - because he was so smart and so caring of Mankind (PR). The idea includes the notion that Scientology is the LAST chance to GET OUT OF THE TRAP for ALL ETERNITY, and that while the CLOCK IS TICKING, and many ENEMIES are AGAINST US that we must work LIKE MAD TO CLEAR THE PLANET (and universe). They ALL believe this emphatically. Especially the die-hard SO members. Sadly, your brother Uwe probably accepted this nonsense too.

2) All people are "really" thetans, so if the body dies while making Scn succeed, it doesn't matter, because what Scn is really saving and freeing are "thetans". To them, and again they BELIEVE this crap entirely, the thetan will come back, for sure on Earth, AND as long as "we make Scn succeed and always be available, then the person can be handled and saved LATER". To them, "death" is not any big concern - when you understand the framework of their ultra-whacky BELIEF SYSTEM.

3) Since SCN is the ONLY subject and field on the whole planet able to REALLY "help people" (all others can't), then OF COURSE, the survival and expansion of SCIENTOLOGY is the MOST IMPORTANT thing. "There is NOTHING more important than what YOU do HERE and NOW with making SCN work!!!!!!!" (more KSW brain-washing) Once again, the truly indoctrinated members BELIEVE this shit completely. Most people see a Scientologist and assume that because he or she looks normal and talks normally, that he or she is "normal". Not true. Not true at all. These people are batshit CRAZY with their belief system. People make the mistake and ASSUME that they are "normal" (not that I hold any importance to "normality").

4) They believe that all failures of any being (person, thetan) are due to past or current out-ethics of some form, and so they place people in the "RPF" to "fix them".

Anyway, with the above understood, one should be able to see that, within THEIR framework of FIXED IDEAS, BELIEFS and ATTITUDES, the solution to the greatest good for the greatest number of Dynamics ALWAYS must give a solution where the CHURCH comes out on top!!!!!!!!! Always.

People can die, people can go broke, and civilizations can even fall, BUT if SCN continues and expands, to them, well THEN EVERYBODY IS WINNING.
Hip-hip-hooray! (crazed stuck open-eyed weird TR Zero)

The solution to ANY equation requiring the computation of the "greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics" ALWAYS must factor in the SURVIVAL AND SUCCESS OF THE CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY as the primary thing of importance. It far outweighs any other concern. Always. That concern leaves all else behind in the dust. THAT viewpoint is ingrained in EVERY card-carrying Scientologist! They live and sleep this nonsense.

Yes, it is nuts. But then, they ARE nuts!!!!! :duh:

To understand ANY person or group, one need only understand that person or group's BELIEFS, and FIXED IDEAS. Knowing that, it is easy to predict any person or group's behavior.

Strangely, most Scientologists have accepted the belief that "we don't have any beliefs"; "we just see and agree with the truth". Batshit crazy. Yep!!!! Most of them will talk endlessly about how "Scientology doesn't require you to believe anything", YET once becoming one, well, you actually gradually accept and come to believe all sorts of dumb ideas. Many! Funny, Scn claims that it will make a person more "aware", yet most members are entirely UNAWARE of the stream of beliefs he or she has accepted and chronically "thinks with" as a direct result of his or her involvement and participation with the Church of Scientology.:omg:
 
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Bee Sting

Patron with Honors
Thank you Markus! It will be a hard road getting him out but I am still hopeful. I am sorry I missed Oct 6th, my thoughts are with you and your family. Scientology may deny our humanity, seize are souls and imprison our bodies but they don't own our hearts. They belong to us and you have mine. My best wishes for what you have set out to do and I hope you will find the answers they unjustly keep from you.

Honey Love,

Bee Sting
 

Markus

Silver Meritorious Patron
Thank you Markus! It will be a hard road getting him out but I am still hopeful. I am sorry I missed Oct 6th, my thoughts are with you and your family. Scientology may deny our humanity, seize are souls and imprison our bodies but they don't own our hearts. They belong to us and you have mine. My best wishes for what you have set out to do and I hope you will find the answers they unjustly keep from you.

Honey Love,

Bee Sting
This!
"Scientology may deny our humanity, seize our souls and imprison our bodies but they don't own our hearts."

"They belong to us and you have mine." :blush: Thank you so much.

Much love

Markus
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
Gadflypedia?!

Gadfly- I really enjoyed your post #41 on this thread listing the astounding beliefs which dedicated Scientologists unquestionably believe to be truths. Your major posts should all be given Titles, classified as to Categories, given page numbers and made into a pack or series of packs something like Hubbard's Professional Auditors' Bulletins (PABs) of the 50's. I proposed callng this mini (or maybe not so mini) encyclopedia of Scientology, "Gadflypedia". What do you think?

Just a couple of comments on post #41. I once accepted all those beliefs 100% but I had some qualifying factors attached to the beliefs. Those two qualifying factors were continually violated, more and more so as time went by and when I kept noticing this, that led me to leaving C of S.

FACTOR #1 I felt that extreme measures which required cruelty, degrading a person or worse should be used as last resorts. All else, including the standard handlings in Scientology should be used before resorting to cruelty and degradation or worse being applied to any alleged opponent.

A subfactor of #1 was making sure someone was really trying to stop Scientology before going after him to destroy him.

Another subfactor of #1 was that the person carrying out the program to bring an enemy of Scientology down was rational, well trained, processed and hatted and "had his shit" together.

FACTOR #2 If a person had a long record of being loyal and helping the expansion of Scientology, this would play a large part in mitigating his punishment. Years or decades of sacrifice for C of S would naturally carry a lot of weight when decisions were made on how to handle a person who was now considered an opponent of Scientology's expansion.

WHAT THE BELIEFS WHICH YOU QUOTED ACTUALLY DO IN PRACTICE
In practice, these beliefs just give some punk or pipsqueek exec a chance to dramatize evil purposes out of his mind and randomly, at his own whim, violently and cruelly bring down a person who is usually a wrong target and ruin the person's life without any valid investigation being done and without that person being able to say anything in his own defense.

I was not so thoroughly indoctrinated that I coule not see this was wrong or try and somehow justify it as applying policy. As the years went by in Scientology, the incidences and severity of these viscious acts began to increase and ultimately led me realize that the beliefs hemselves were not valid and the correct action to take was to quit the church.
Lkwdblds
 
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Markus

Silver Meritorious Patron
Great post!

What is totally crazy is that with THEIR definition of ethics they ARE the most "ethical" on the planet. How so?

To them "ethics" means solving any problem with the solution that results in the "greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics". That doesn't sound so bad, right?

But, the solution is ALWAYS loaded and over-balanced in THEIR favor. How?

You need to first understand the various FIXED IDEAS, and the BELIEFS that each Church member MUST harbor, hold or agree with (to remain a Church member).

Here they are; they BELIEVE these ideas completely.

1) Scn is the ONLY workable solution for all Man's spiritual woes, and all Man's problems, past, present and future. (they BELIEVE this shit completely - it is part of KSW) The attitude is indoctrinated that ALL other mental systems or spiritual methods do NOT work, have never worked, and that the wonderful genius LRH somehow magically came up with it all - because he was so smart and so caring of Mankind (PR). The idea includes the notion that Scientology is the LAST chance to GET OUT OF THE TRAP for ALL ETERNITY, and that while the CLOCK IS TICKING, and many ENEMIES are AGAINST US that we must work LIKE MAD TO CLEAR THE PLANET (and universe). They ALL believe this emphatically. Especially the die-hard SO members. Sadly, your brother Uwe probably accepted this nonsense too.

2) All people are "really" thetans, so if the body dies while making Scn succeed, it doesn't matter, because what Scn is really saving and freeing are "thetans". To them, and again they BELIEVE this crap entirely, the thetan will come back, for sure on Earth, AND as long as "we make Scn succeed and always be available, then the person can be handled and saved LATER". To them, "death" is not any big concern - when you understand the framework of their ultra-whacky BELIEF SYSTEM.

3) Since SCN is the ONLY subject and field on the whole planet able to REALLY "help people" (all others can't), then OF COURSE, the survival and expansion of SCIENTOLOGY is the MOST IMPORTANT thing. "There is NOTHING more important than what YOU do HERE and NOW with making SCN work!!!!!!!" (more KSW brain-washing) Once again, the truly indoctrinated members BELIEVE this shit completely. Most people see a Scientologist and assume that because he or she looks normal and talks normally, that he or she is "normal". Not true. Not true at all. These people are batshit CRAZY with their belief system. People make the mistake and ASSUME that they are "normal" (not that I hold any importance to "normality").

4) They believe that all failures of any being (person, thetan) are due to past or current out-ethics of some form, and so they place people in the "RPF" to "fix them".

Anyway, with the above understood, one should be able to see that, within THEIR framework of FIXED IDEAS, BELIEFS and ATTITUDES, the solution to the greatest good for the greatest number of Dynamics ALWAYS must give a solution where the CHURCH comes out on top!!!!!!!!! Always.

People can die, people can go broke, and civilizations can even fall, BUT if SCN continues and expands, to them, well THEN EVERYBODY IS WINNING.
Hip-hip-hooray! (crazed stuck open-eyed weird TR Zero)

The solution to ANY equation requiring the computation of the "greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics" ALWAYS must factor in the SURVIVAL AND SUCCESS OF THE CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY as the primary thing of importance. It far outweighs any other concern. Always. That concern leaves all else behind in the dust. THAT viewpoint is ingrained in EVERY card-carrying Scientologist! They live and sleep this nonsense.

Yes, it is nuts. But then, they ARE nuts!!!!! :duh:

To understand ANY person or group, one need only understand that person or group's BELIEFS, and FIXED IDEAS. Knowing that, it is easy to predict any person or group's behavior.

Strangely, most Scientologists have accepted the belief that "we don't have any beliefs"; "we just see and agree with the truth". Batshit crazy. Yep!!!! Most of them will talk endlessly about how "Scientology doesn't require you to believe anything", YET once becoming one, well, you actually gradually accept and come to believe all sorts of dumb ideas. Many! Funny, Scn claims that it will make a person more "aware", yet most members are entirely UNAWARE of the stream of beliefs he or she has accepted and chronically "thinks with" as a direct result of his or her involvement and participation with the Church of Scientology.:omg:

What a wonderful and very true post - thank you Gadfly.

Best wishes

Markus
 

Markus

Silver Meritorious Patron
The Church of Scientology is practicing medicine without a license.

http://www.whyaretheydead.info/room758.html

"The scientology doctor reports that he prescribed vitamins for his patient -dispite regular attacks- in stead of treating him with proper medication. Such medication was indeed not detected in his blood during the post-mortem examination. "

"Scientology officials say Pfaff's treatment was not recommended by the church.

"If someone had epilepsy, they should see a medical doctor," Shaw said. "It was his choice to receive drugs or not."



For me it is very very clear! The Church of Scientology is an organization full of heartless and arrogant liars!





I knew Heribert and his wife Anita personally. I helped Anita in the nights with Heriberts heavy seizures. Both of them told me personally that they are hoping that Auditing could cure the seizures of Heribert. I find it very strange that Anita was staying with friends while Heribert died. Anita was a very caring wife and as I said before she asked me to help her in the nights with his heavy seizures. Everybody who has ever seen an epileptic Grand Mal seizure will understand that a wife has no chance to do anything to protect a quite tall man while having such a seizure. So my question is - why was nobody there caring for Heribert. Why was nobody there caring for Jett Travolta?

Love

Markus
 
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Bee Sting

Patron with Honors
Just like Maria believed she would no longer need insulin ... and if only those awful BT's would just go away... and when she developed a "ring" around her intestines making her very sick... those horrible BT's were to blame just sticking ... well, auditing and ethics would cure that no problem, right? RIGHT?? Well, Maria died and so did Jett.

Honey Love,

Bee Sting
 

Markus

Silver Meritorious Patron
Just like Maria...

Just like Maria believed she would no longer need insulin ... and if only those awful BT's would just go away... and when she developed a "ring" around her intestines making her very sick... those horrible BT's were to blame just sticking ... well, auditing and ethics would cure that no problem, right? RIGHT?? Well, Maria died and so did Jett.

Honey Love,

Bee Sting

Yes Bee,
just like Maria. It is all so very sad and unbelievable.........

Much love

Markus
 

Markus

Silver Meritorious Patron
Could Jett Travolta have been saved??

Could Jett have been saved?
By EMILY SMITH
US Editor
Published: 07 Jan 2009


JETT Travolta's decision to stop taking anti-seizure medication was a FATAL mistake, some medics claim.

The Travolta's lawyer Michael McDermott said Jett had been prescribed the anti-seizure drug Depakote, but had stopped taking it after it became less effective and following fears of liver damage.
But specialists say he should never have stopped taking it, and should have tried a different anti-seizure drug.


Jett, who suffered fits, was found slumped in a bathroom last Friday at the family’s Bahamas holiday home.
Dr Yousef Mohammad, who has not treated Jett, said: "It is highly dangerous to take a patient off seizure medication.
"The only time we do that is if the patient has been seizure-free for two to three years."
The neurologist and assistant professor at Ohio State Medical Center in Columbus added: "Depakote can rarely cause liver damage. But there are many alternatives.
"I would switch to Keppra, which is excreted by the kidneys, not the liver and is very safe.
"There are many new medications available...but you do not stop medication."



...


Read the full article at Could Jett have been saved? | The Sun |News

The above article from The Sun hits the point exactly:

Jett was getting medication against his seizures for many years as even Travoltas lawyers stated these days. But this medication was stoped - the above reasons may have been two of some more. Here are some which seem to me very likely: Maybe the Travoltas tried another Purification Rundown or some Auditing on him. So he needed to stop taking his medicine against his heavy seizures. What I found on Sky News is shocking me if this is really true: "Sixteen - year old Jett Travolta was last seen when he went to use the bathroom at the family's home on Grand bahama Island on Jan. 1. He was found lying uncouncious by a caretaker at 10 am the following day"
Regulary heavy seizures, no medication against it taken and nobody was looking for Jett for about at least 10 hours?! I really can't believe this. I'm a medical orderly working with handicapped people for 18 Years and if I would do this I surely would go to jail! Who was the "caretaker". Who was responsible to look after Jett in this very very dangerous situation? And I second what is said in the above article - it is absolutely unusal just to stop anti-seizure medication. Especially when it is known that there are such regular and heavy seizures occuring. I'm sure I could not find one neurologist here in Germany who would allow this. So the question is who was responsible......

Love
Markus
 

Bee Sting

Patron with Honors
Could Jett have been saved?
By EMILY SMITH
US Editor
Published: 07 Jan 2009


JETT Travolta's decision to stop taking anti-seizure medication was a FATAL mistake, some medics claim.

The Travolta's lawyer Michael McDermott said Jett had been prescribed the anti-seizure drug Depakote, but had stopped taking it after it became less effective and following fears of liver damage.
But specialists say he should never have stopped taking it, and should have tried a different anti-seizure drug.


Jett, who suffered fits, was found slumped in a bathroom last Friday at the family’s Bahamas holiday home.
Dr Yousef Mohammad, who has not treated Jett, said: "It is highly dangerous to take a patient off seizure medication.
"The only time we do that is if the patient has been seizure-free for two to three years."
The neurologist and assistant professor at Ohio State Medical Center in Columbus added: "Depakote can rarely cause liver damage. But there are many alternatives.
"I would switch to Keppra, which is excreted by the kidneys, not the liver and is very safe.
"There are many new medications available...but you do not stop medication."



...


Read the full article at Could Jett have been saved? | The Sun |News

The above article from The Sun hits the point exactly:

Jett was getting medication against his seizures for many years as even Travoltas lawyers stated these days. But this medication was stoped - the above reasons may have been two of some more. Here are some which seem to me very likely: Maybe the Travoltas tried another Purification Rundown or some Auditing on him. So he needed to stop taking his medicine against his heavy seizures. What I found on Sky News is shocking me if this is really true: "Sixteen - year old Jett Travolta was last seen when he went to use the bathroom at the family's home on Grand bahama Island on Jan. 1. He was found lying uncouncious by a caretaker at 10 am the following day"
Regulary heavy seizures, no medication against it taken and nobody was looking for Jett for about at least 10 hours?! I really can't believe this. I'm a medical orderly working with handicapped people for 18 Years and if I would do this I surely would go to jail! Who was the "caretaker". Who was responsible to look after Jett in this very very dangerous situation? And I second what is said in the above article - it is absolutely unusal just to stop anti-seizure medication. Especially when it is known that there are such regular and heavy seizures occuring. I'm sure I could not find one neurologist here in Germany who would allow this. So the question is who was responsible......

Love
Markus


Yes, Markus! I do belive he could have been saved or at least helped!

In my own experience, I resisted drug treatment or rather, anything that deemed to be "mind altering" for my own daughter. But, as I learned "mind" altering drugs may have more "good" benefits rather than being bad as in negative "mind altering."

Medications may have the benefit of helping the individual to peform or act to what we think is "normal." Yes, there are side effects but if someone has the benefit of the drug to reduce for example, seizures and it is not impairing logical thinking but stops the seizure which then the stopping of the seizure, enables the person to function then why not?

Drugs can help enable people to enhance their quality of life by enabling them, no disabling like the indoctrination of LRH suggests in regard to what he would consider "psych" drugs.

One psych drugs like include valium is what my daughter was prescribed, not for "mind altering" purposes but to help her control her spacticticy (ability to move her muscles.) In her case, it enabled her not the opposite. For example, her limbs and movement in her arms, joints and hips which she needed for hygenical purposes not to mention her own joy and delight being able to "kick" her leg.

So, drugs can be good. They may have side effects but if we consider the quality of life these drugs can bring to a person taking them - as opposed to not having them, there are times and more often that not, drugs are more beneficial for the person than they are destructive, weighing the good against the bad.

There is no question that these type of drugs has a "chemical" effect but if the effect results is a person being more able, to have a more constructive or functional life, drugs are not necessarily bad. .

I do think Jett could have benefited from different drugs and in effect these drugs may have enable him, not disabled and he might be alive today.

Too bad, John will never read this.

Honey Love,

Be Sting
 

Markus

Silver Meritorious Patron
Isolation and "illegal antibiotics" at Flag Land Base?

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=354071&postcount=55

"In 1977 I was put in isolation at the FH with about four other girls who all had fevers and other flulike symptoms. We played cards and smoked cigarettes and read trashy novels until we were proclaimed well enough to get back on course or post.

Every day meals were brought to us and sometimes a friend would bring us treats. But every day someone from the MLO's office would show up with antibiotics every four hours and take our temperature. She recorded our temperature and told us that it had to go below "normal" and back up to normal before we were to stop taking them. None of us saw doctors or had prescriptions. I have no idea how the antibiotics were obtained."

by Good Twin

Any similar stories out there? Share them here please.

Love
Markus
 
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thetanic

Gold Meritorious Patron
So, drugs can be good. They may have side effects but if we consider the quality of life these drugs can bring to a person taking them - as opposed to not having them, there are times and more often that not, drugs are more beneficial for the person than they are destructive, weighing the good against the bad.

There is no question that these type of drugs has a "chemical" effect but if the effect results is a person being more able, to have a more constructive or functional life, drugs are not necessarily bad.

Bodies are biochemical machines. It's not surprising that chemicals will alter their behavior.

Every chemical substance you put into a body, from a carrot to an anti-psychotic, has effects both good and bad in the body. If you look at it as trying to do the most good with the least harm, I think that's a winning perspective.
 

Markus

Silver Meritorious Patron
Medical malpractice in the Church of Scientology Denmark....

"Speaking of nervous breakdown. "Normally" when people collapse in Scientology, they are sent in baby-watching. It means you are being isolated, fx in a summer cottage, looking at stones, while another person is present, to keep an eye on you. Lene xxx tried this amazing cure devised by Scientology, and even got some very unpleasant sexual experiences simultaneously. She even had to pay for it.

Steen Jorgensen was also out baby-watching, he found the man, Jorgen Nielsen, dead the next morning. Hanged. Bjarne Hededam hanged himself. Michelle Enger was in baby watching. Susanne Schrøder went quazy and her husband had to admit her to the hospital. Frank Boyd litterally went nuts! Hans Jacob ran around on a German highway, talking nonsense, that is why he is in a cl. V organization today.

Gitte from Lyngby Mission tried to committ suicide at FLAG, even I went down and became hospitalized for 24 hours, then there was the woman from AOSH EU who killed two babies and drove around with them in a babycarriage.

Arne Højer there went more and more zombie-like as hours passed, though he was OT7. He was dotty. The cousin of Mikkel Jørck went psychotic in the sauna, and the last of which just occurs to me: Sjudur Jacobsen, who went PTS type three and was hospitalized. Met him twice, just terrible.

Incredibly, this happens to so many people in such a small a group. This is only, what I know of in Copenhagen. Something is definitely wrong. Absolutely wrong."


Read the whole story of Sally Kragh Andersen here: http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=15689

Love
Markus
 
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Markus

Silver Meritorious Patron
One of the great dangers of Scientology.......

Petra O'Briens letter and "The Anderson Report"

http://infinitecomplacency.blogspot.com/2010/01/9-peta-obriens-letter-medical-neglect.html

"Medical neglect in Scientology was so serious that staff members with cancer were left to die untreated at their post, according to one letter to Senator Xenophon."


"One of the great dangers of Scientology is that it poisons the minds of its followers against the medical profession and generates an abhorrence of medical treatment generally, and psychiatric and psychological treatment in particular, he wrote."

Love
Markus
 

Gadfly

Crusader
Petra O'Briens letter and "The Anderson Report"

http://infinitecomplacency.blogspot.com/2010/01/9-peta-obriens-letter-medical-neglect.html

"Medical neglect in Scientology was so serious that staff members with cancer were left to die untreated at their post, according to one letter to Senator Xenophon."


"One of the great dangers of Scientology is that it poisons the minds of its followers against the medical profession and generates an abhorrence of medical treatment generally, and psychiatric and psychological treatment in particular, he wrote."

Love
Markus

Personally, I stay as far away from "traditional medicine" as possible. I am very much an "alternative" sort of person. Never had a personal doctor in my life. I consider the western paradigm of medicine to be severely flawed, biased and largely a "business" aimed at "making money, and NOT AT ALL aimed at all at producing "healthy people". I pretty much have the same view for most of psychiatry. I do NOT have the same view for psychology and therapists, because it involves such a HUGE mixture of views, opinions and practices, even including many New Age approaches (which I enjoy). Incorrectly, SCN poops on everything labeled as "psychology". But then, any "therapy" is the "competition" to them.

The A=A=A mentally of Scientologists between "psychiatry" and "psychology" is an amazing thing to watch! The two are, in fact, WORLDS apart, and often have almost NOTHING in common, yet the over-indoctrinated Scientologist somehow has it makes sense, in their slushy little heads, that anything that begins with "psych" MUST BE BAD! Such stupidity! It used to floor me when I wold run into these attitudes while involved with the Church, CCHR or OSA. Ater trying to have a few intelligent conversations with them about it, how psyhcology is so NOT like or the "same" as "psychiatry", I realized that it was like trying to have a conversation with a box of hammers. It ain't gonna happen!!!! :confused2:

I detest the attitudes cultivated within the framework of the Church of Scientology and much of HOW and WHAT they do. I have made that very clear here. But also, I agree and am largely "against the medical profession" and have an attitude of "abhorrence to medical treatment generally", and to "psychiatric treatment". I had those views LONG before I ever got involved in Scientology, being a hippie from way back, and never very fond of the modern western paradigm. I see them largely as a SHAM and a SCAM, just as I view Scientology, but it would take too long of an essay to build up a meaningful explanation for why I have that viewpoint.

Healthcare in the USA makes up what amazingly high percentage of the GNP (gross natiopnal product)? Just as Scientology is NOT the result of sincere efforts to figure out and deliver to Man a "path to freedom", so modern western medicine is NOT the result of the sincere efforts of people aimed at solving the problems of human health. They are first and foremost BUSINESSES. Their aims are to MAKE LONEY. Lots of money.

Just as Scientology continues to make money as long as you have something "wrong with you", so does the modern western medical business make money as long as you are sick and have something wrong with you. There is no aim with either, not really, to make you HEALTHY.

If you were entirely healthy, on a mental and emotional level, then you would have NO NEED for Sceintology. So be sure that they are not about to get you to THAT point.

If you were entirely healthy, on a physical level, then you would have NO NEED for western medicine. So, also be sure, that they are not about to get you to THAT point.

They, Scientology and western medicine, are simply two aspects of the same lunacy. Turning one against the other is a charade, and acts as a distraction from REAL problems inherent with each.
 

Markus

Silver Meritorious Patron
Thank you

Personally, I stay as far away from "traditional medicine" as possible. I am very much an "alternative" sort of person. Never had a personal doctor in my life. I consider the western paradigm of medicine to be severely flawed, biased and largely a "business" aimed at "making money, and NOT AT ALL aimed at all at producing "healthy people". I pretty much have the same view for most of psychiatry. I do NOT have the same view for psychology and therapists, because it involves such a HUGE mixture of views, opinions and practices, even including many New Age approaches (which I enjoy). Incorrectly, SCN poops on everything labeled as "psychology". But then, any "therapy" is the "competition" to them.

The A=A=A mentally of Scientologists between "psychiatry" and "psychology" is an amazing thing to watch! The two are, in fact, WORLDS apart, and often have almost NOTHING in common, yet the over-indoctrinated Scientologist somehow has it makes sense, in their slushy little heads, that anything that begins with "psych" MUST BE BAD! Such stupidity! It used to floor me when I wold run into these attitudes while involved with the Church, CCHR or OSA. Ater trying to have a few intelligent conversations with them about it, how psyhcology is so NOT like or the "same" as "psychiatry", I realized that it was like trying to have a conversation with a box of hammers. It ain't gonna happen!!!! :confused2:

I detest the attitudes cultivated within the framework of the Church of Scientology and much of HOW and WHAT they do. I have made that very clear here. But also, I agree and am largely "against the medical profession" and have an attitude of "abhorrence to medical treatment generally", and to "psychiatric treatment". I had those views LONG before I ever got involved in Scientology, being a hippie from way back, and never very fond of the modern western paradigm. I see them largely as a SHAM and a SCAM, just as I view Scientology, but it would take too long of an essay to build up a meaningful explanation for why I have that viewpoint.

Healthcare in the USA makes up what amazingly high percentage of the GNP (gross natiopnal product)? Just as Scientology is NOT the result of sincere efforts to figure out and deliver to Man a "path to freedom", so modern western medicine is NOT the result of the sincere efforts of people aimed at solving the problems of human health. They are first and foremost BUSINESSES. Their aims are to MAKE LONEY. Lots of money.

Just as Scientology continues to make money as long as you have something "wrong with you", so does the modern western medical business make money as long as you are sick and have something wrong with you. There is no aim with either, not really, to make you HEALTHY.

If you were entirely healthy, on a mental and emotional level, then you would have NO NEED for Sceintology. So be sure that they are not about to get you to THAT point.

If you were entirely healthy, on a physical level, then you would have NO NEED for western medicine. So, also be sure, that they are not about to get you to THAT point.

They, Scientology and western medicine, are simply two aspects of the same lunacy. Turning one against the other is a charade, and acts as a distraction from REAL problems inherent with each.

Thank you for your honest, detailed and very interesting post.
Love
Markus
 

Markus

Silver Meritorious Patron
medical claims from the "Dianetics -book"

(3) Hard back book, 452 pages, entitled "Dianetics: The Modern
Science of Mental Health," by L. Ron Hubbard.

"Simple though it is, dianetics does and is these things:

1. It is an organized science of thought built on definite
axioms: statements of natural laws on the order of those of the
physical sciences.

2. It contains a therapeutic technique with which can be treated
all inorganic mental ills and all organic psycho-somatic ills,
with assurance of complete cure in unselected cases.

3. It produces a condition of ability and rationality for Man
well in advance of the current norm, enhancing rather than
destroying his vigor and personality.

4. Dianetics gives a complete insight into the full
potentialities of the mind, discovering them to be well in excess
of past supposition.

5. The basic nature of man is discovered in dianetics rather than
hazarded or [**26] postulated, since that basic nature can be
brought into action in any individual completely. And that basic
nature is discovered to be good.

6. The single source of mental derangement is discovered and
demonstrated, on a clinical or laboratory basis, by dianetics.

7. The extent, storage capacity and recallability of the human
memory is finally established by dianetics.

8. The full recording abilities of the mind are discovered by
dianetics with the conclusion that they are quite dissimilar to
former suppositions.

9. Dianetics brings forth the nongerm theory of disease,
complementing bio-chemistry and Pasteur's work on the germ theory
to embrace the field.

10. With dianetics ends the "necessity" of destroying the brain
by shock or surgery to effect "tractability" in mental patients
and "adjust" them.

11. A workable explanation of the physiological effects of drugs
and endocrine substances exists in dianetics and many problems
posed by endocrinology are answered."

"Chapter V

PSYCHO-SOMATIC ILLNESS"

"Psycho-somatic illnesses are those which have a mental origin
but which are nevertheless organic. Despite the fact that there
existed no precise scientific proof of this before [**27]
dianetics, an opinion as to their existence has been strong since
the days of Greece, and in recent times various drug preparations
have been concocted and sold which were supposed to overcome
these sicknesses. Some success was experienced, sufficient to
warrant a great deal of work on the part of researchers. Peptic
ulcers, for instance, have yielded to persuasion and
environmental change. A recent drug called ACTH has had
astonishing but wildly unpredictable results. Allergies have been
found to yield more or less to things which depressed histamine
in the body.

"The problem of psycho-somatic illness is entirely embraced by
dianetics, and by dianetic technique such illness has been
eradicated entirely in every case."

"On the physical therapy level anything as violent as surgery or
exodor tistry in the psycho-somatic plane i utter barbarism in
the light of dianetics. "Toothache" is normally psycho-somatic.
[*367] Organic illnesses enough to fill several catalogues are
psycho-somatic. No recourse to surgery of any kind should be had
until it is certain that the ailment is not psycho-somatic or
that the illness will not diminish by itself if the potency of
the reactive [**28] mind is reduced. * *"


This is from United States of America, Libelant, v. An Article Or Device "Hubbard Electrometer" or "Hubbard E-Meter," etc., Founding Church of Scientology et al., Claimants: http://www.lermanet.com/case2.htm

Love
Markus
 

thetanic

Gold Meritorious Patron
Personally, I stay as far away from "traditional medicine" as possible. I am very much an "alternative" sort of person. Never had a personal doctor in my life. I consider the western paradigm of medicine to be severely flawed, biased and largely a "business" aimed at "making money, and NOT AT ALL aimed at all at producing "healthy people".

Over the last few weeks, I realized that pretty much the best doctors I've had throughout my life were DOs instead of MDs.

It was this post from XenuLovesU that made me go back and look at my former doctors:

M.D.: where is your peer-reviewed, double-blind, placebo-controlled study?

D.O.: Yeah, that sounds like all the anecdotal stuff I know about. Let's run with it.

D.C.: Subluxation is indicated. If I crack your neck, you won't need all of that homeopathy.

I like peer-reviewed studies. I often look for them when looking for possible treatments.

The fact remains, though, that I've pretty much diagnosed myself with everything I've needed to have addressed. My current doc (an MD) is pretty good, but House he's not. He's far more willing to work with alternative providers than most, though.

The second best MD I have was the Scn doctor I used when I was in.
 

Markus

Silver Meritorious Patron
The origin of this nonsense

First I want to post a very sad story of my very special friend Bee Sting here:


My Pain and Jett Travolta
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I was on staff in small Mission when I met “Maria.” It’s not her real name but to conceal her true identity, I will call her Maria.

The mission was small and I could hear much any session that took place through the beveled doors that separate the only auditing room from the rest of the org. Maria was audited by her Mother, a Class VII or so (I forget) Auditor.

Maria was diabetic from early childhood. She received many hours of auditing from her mom trying to handle her psychosomatic aberration or however they put it.

One day, I hear Maria babbling to herself and she seemed to think there was something above her head. I couldn’t see it but apparently she needed to communicate to this invisible “entity.” I would hear her give commands or acknowledgements like “sit down”, “stop it“, “ok”, “that’s it” or”very good” etc.

Being a brand new Scientologist I didn’t understand what was going on and I thought it was pretty bizarre. Then, I would observe her “flicking” things off her legs or other parts of her body and communicate in the same way to these “flicks.”

One day Maria explained to me her behavior. She said she had a “theta spider” living on top of her head and this is was to who she was communicating with when she was looking up. The “flicking” was getting rid of her “Body Thetans.” Of course, I had no idea what this was all about until much later on in Scientology.

But anyhow, I moved on and many weeks and months past and then I received news that Maria was doing well. She was doing great in auditing and was going off her insulin. Yet, a year or so past and I heard nothing until when I day I learned she”dropped her body.” I was very sad to hear the news because she believed so intently she would eventually be able to stop taking her medication.

Another year or so later, I learned more about Maria’s death. She had full blown diabetes Type-B, the most severe form there is and she stopped taking her insulin. Her mother happily reported how successful she had been before her death finally attaining some kind of whatever level. I didn’t hear much about Maria’s wins or levels through the conversation. All I could think about is how she died and I wondered why. Why Maria?

Soon after, Maria’s mother and her sister packed up their belongings and moved to Clearwater Florida. I believe they are still there today.

Years after leaving the Sea Org and Scientology for good, I gave birth to a beautiful baby girl but a few weeks into her new born life something went wrong. She had encephalitis (brain swelling) which caused a series of unstoppable grand maul seizures. The doctors had no choice but to induce her into a medical coma. This incident left her with severe and irreversible brain damage but I never learned what caused her condition.

In a conversation with husband, very much a Scientologist even being out for so many years, I learned what he and how Scientology views any one with disabilities. His words in reference to my beautiful little girl were “they put dogs to sleep.” I divorced him!

Scientology believe people with disabilities are “degraded beings” and somehow my husband blamed me for causing, yes, causing her condition. It was my fault, I caused it and I was no longer the “perfect” mother whom gave birth to his first born son. I fell from his “pedestal”, as he put it.

In years that followed, I fought tremendously with my little girl’s doctors and care takers but thanks to their passion and understanding, they gently coached me in understanding that all drugs are not bad. With their incredible patience I learned to become an advocate for my little girl. I learned about her medications, the risk and side effects but most importantly, the benefits. One of the drugs she has to take is Valium an absolute no, no in Scientology.

In the mean time my now ex-husband, sought sole custody of my son. He “Faired Gamed” me. My neighbors were talked to, my real estate agent was talked to, my employer was talked to and my very own lawyer was talked to. I changed lawyer!

In a phone conversation with my son, he TOLD me I should agree to pay child support to based on potential future earnings of $60,000 per year when at the time I was unemployed and had never made more that $30,000 per year in my entire life, my son told me this, my son!

I didn’t fight custody. I had visitation rights but whenever I called to speak with my son he was too busy or out doing something else and he would “get back to me later.” Well, later never came and later always went.

Every now and then I think of Maria. I wonder what if?

I think of her mother and I wonder why? I don’t understand!

I think of my little girl’s daddy that never thought for a second of whom or what she might become and above all I miss son. How cruel the world can be and how different perhaps things might have been if it was not for Scientology and its policies of disconnect and fair game.

When I visit my little pumpkin she always greets me with a smile. I am not sure she knows the concept of “mother” but I know I am one of the ones she loves. Sometimes, I have to share her affection with whom she greets the same (like a care taker) but that’s ok because I know she is happy in the life she lives.

She is blind but she always turns her head and coos when I am there. When I see her smile I know she loves me - unconditionally and I know that the smiles she gives belong to me.


When I heard about Jett Travolta I feel their pain and I grieve with them. I am the last person in the world who have the right to criticize and judge any another parent in their decision in the care of their child.

I am the last to have anything to say because I have fought so hard for so long and I have been all alone with the all decisions to make about my little girl. And yet, a piece of me - does!

Maria was 32 years old when she died. Maria was my sister-in-law. I miss her very much. Even though I know why, I still ask, why?

Then I found this story a few days ago:
From: [email protected] (energytraveler)
Subject: Dr. Megan Shields - Who Comes First the Patient or the Church?
Date: 3 Dec 2002 15:21:51 -0800
Message-ID: <[email protected]>

Dr. Megan Shields and her colleague, Dr. Gene Denk, know more about the inner criminal activity of senior Scientology management than just about anyone.

Quite a while ago, Dr. Denk supervised the Purification program on Carrie Alkins. During the Purif, Carrie, a juvenile diabetic, developed a detached retina and, although she had several eye surgeries, wound up legally blind. She has remained so ever since.

Carrie wrote up a bunch of knowledge reports at the time in an effort to not only get some sort of apology and restitution from Shaw Health Center, but also to ensure that other diabetics were not given massive dosages of niacin, which could bring on retinal bleeding and possibly a detached retina which could result in blindness.

Regular doctors routinely warn diabetics against taking massive dosages of niacin for this reason.

Dr. Denk and Dr. Shields circled the wagons, of course, and let Carrie and her husband know that if she pushed the point she might get kicked out of the Church. Scientology doctors tend to cover for each other and also for the Church. They fail to report child abuse, sexual harassment, spousal abuse, and any sort of medical negligence that has happened ROUTINELY over the years within the Sea Org.

When I was on staff at ASHO and at AO I used to do all the staff FESing (review of counseling folders). This is what I observed. A lot of the staff members would get sick, go to the Shaw Health Center and get sub-optimum care there. Serious illnesses would often be overlooked resulting in extremely serious medical and sometimes fatal consequences. Many times I saw staff members who went to Shaw Health Center and the doctors prescribed routine antibiotics rather than ordering the medical exams that would be normally ordered by any competent physician. As a result of that, many times the staff members ended up going to the hospital in late stages of cancer when the cancer was too advanced to be operable. Because the Sea Org doesn't pay for health insurance for its staff members it becomes a very serious problem when they get a disease.

Also, seriously depressed or mentally ill people NEVER get referred by the doctors at Shaw Health Center for any type of treatment. For instance, there was a NOTS auditor in the early 1980s who was a staff member at AOLA who was 5'6" tall and weighed less than 90 lbs. She was completely anorexic. She was very seriously ill. Shaw Health Center attempted to handle her with intravenous vitamins. They didn't inform her family or take the measures that were really needed to save her life. Her fellow staff members, myself included, never did find out what happened to her. She just disappeared. Another Sea Org auditor, Claire something, had had an auto accident and had severe back pain. Shaw Health Center tried to help her with peripheral types of treatments. AOLA and Shaw Health Center ignored the agony this woman was in. Claire committed suicide by walking into the Pacific Ocean in Santa Monica.

Dr. Denk and Dr. Shields and the Sea Org are ripping off the tax payers by sending all their staff to Olive View County Hospital so that they can get free treatment on Medi-Cal. The Church brags about its wealth but does not care enough about its staff to feed or house it properly and also refuses to pay for medical care for its staff on many occasions. Dental care is also out of the question for many staff members. Many of them lose their teeth because the Church refuses to pay for dental care. Yet, other Sea Org members are willing to stigmatize these staff members as being 'down stat' because they look like monsters with missing teeth. These staff are humiliated and kept literally in the basement doing menial work unless they somehow have the resources to pay for their own dental care.

Dr. Shields & Dr. Denk are accomplices to many of the Church human rights abuses and medical negligence. They know that if they follow the law, the way they should be doing, they will get into trouble with the Church and probably be excommunicated. This puts them in a daily dilemma. For example, in the early 1980s a staff member at a Scientology Sea Org nursery was found to be a child molester. At least 20 Sea Org staff members knew about this and also the doctors at Shaw Health Center were aware of it. These doctors DID NOT report this to the authorities because they were more concerned about avoiding a public relations flap for the Church than about the fact that there was a good chance that more innocent children would be molested.

Even though many Scientologists who sell Health Insurance have approached Scientology management with reasonable rates on group health insurance, management has never agreed to this.

Sexual harassment is an everyday occurrence in the Sea Org. Although this is almost never voiced, it is a hidden scandal. Of course, as in any human group, there are kind people and mean people. But the Sea Org has developed a kind of prison mentality. A lot of Sea Org members are young teenagers or young adults. Often by the age of 23 or 24 they have been married 3 or 4 times. Because of the Sea Org prohibition on pregnancy, many marriages are unhappy and the partners feel unfulfilled. Older Sea Org members often marry young recruits.

Some very vicious Sea Org members will purposely separate married couples. They station one in one country and the other in another country where they are not able to see each other for literally YEARS.

Also, they don't have money to call long distance. Since they are not allowed to go onto the Internet (for obvious reasons) they can't communicate by e-mail either.

There is no retirement program for older Sea Org members. When they get old and incapacitated they don't have a place to go. Also, they often don't have family to take care of them. They are made to feel like 'downstats' and often leave the Sea Org and go on the public dole very quietly, often moving back to where they grew up.

A friend of mine went to Shaw Health Center last year and reported to me that it looked pretty empty. That may be why Dr. Shields is now working at Glendale Memorial. Any thoughts on this?

But all of the above should be carefully qualified. Dr. Denk and Dr.

Shields are well aware of how far Scientology senior management will go. They know that it would be easy for management to get Sea Org members to testify against them for legitimate malpractice, notwithstanding the fact that the malpractice was incited by management itself. They are, themselves, entrapped. If they do not continue to follow the instructions of senior management they risk losing their medical licenses and possibly being criminally prosecuted, at the instigation of management. In exchange for their loyalty, Shaw Health Center is protected by management from patients who might, were it not for Scientology rules and regulations, sue them or cause criminal negligence charges to be made.

Any patient who dares to report Shaw Health Center to internal Scientology ethics is routinely reprimanded for trying to attack 'upstats'. The one who is the victim, in this type of situation, is the one who is blamed. The usual Scientology 'blame the victim' routine so that the Church can avoid taking any responsibility.

Guess who was the Medical Doctor of my brother Uwe in the RPF....
Yes it was Dr. G. Megan Shields.

You can find his tragic story here:
http://anonforgreatjustice.blogspot.com/2008/12/markus-stuckenbrock-just-exactly-how.html
or just read my posts and threads about him on this board

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=8897

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=12443

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=11557

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=12513

Please help me to collect all cases of medical malpractice in this thread.
Thank you.

Love

Markus

Quote from "Dianetics, the modern science of mental health" by L. Ron hubbard:

"At the present time dianetic research is scheduled to include cancer and diabetes. There
are a number of reasons to suppose that these may be engramic in cause, particularly malignant
cancer. This is remarked so that attention may be given to the possibility; no tests of any kind
have been made on cancer or diabetic patients, and the thought is purely theory and is not to be
taken as any kind of an avowal about a cancer cure. Those diseases which were catalogued
above, however, have been thoroughly tested and have uniformly yielded to dianetic therapy."
 

Markus

Silver Meritorious Patron
Without words....

Another medical malpractice in Scientology.Back in the late 60s I knew both of these ladies,the one who wrote the affidavit (Hana Eltringham) and also the lady that died Yvonne Gillham (Jensh).

http://web.archive.org/web/20060204205838/whyaretheydead.net/


224. A friend of mine, Yvonne Gillham Jentzsch, died of a brain tumor. In early August 1967 I joined Hubbard's Sea Project in Las Palmas, Canary Islands. Yvonne was already on the ship and we got to know each other well.

225. In 1969 and 1970, while I was stationed in Los Angeles as Deputy Commodore U.S., Yvonne was the Commanding Officer of the first Los Angeles Celebrity Center. We met frequently in a work capacity as well as socially.

226. During the early to mid-1970s, I flew to Los Angeles on assignment several times and met Yvonne.

227. During 1977 we exchanged letters. Her's were shorter than usual, just brief notes. I noticed the change as Yvonne was known for her lengthy letters. She said she was tired, losing weight and getting headaches, all unusual for her. I didn't think much about the last; I also had constant headaches.

228. In late 1977, Yvonne suddenly arrived in Clearwater, very ill. She talked with difficulty, lost track of what she said half way through a sentence and lost her balance while walking. Yvonne told me she had a brain tumor and that she was dying. She said she hadn't seen a doctor because she thought auditing would fix it. The illness started with an "out of balance" feeling which she assigned to lack of sleep. The doctor told Yvonne the tumor was removable if she had seen him earlier. We both cried. I knew auditing did not resolve everything, but I was shocked that her life was wasted through such neglect.

229. She said that Hubbard ordered her to Florida for auditing to ease the transition, meaning death, as well as to do an end of cycle on her "hats" so that someone else could take over her Celebrity Centers after she "dropped her body". One day she cried and blamed herself for the terrible overt of dying and deserting Hubbard. She was in continual pain but wouldn't take pain killers so that she could get auditing. On a later occasion, Yvonne was quite philosophical about her forthcoming death and said she was phasing out of her life and no one should grieve. I knew at that point that Yvonne had had auditing on her nearing death and that, in Scientologese, she had discharged any fear or trauma connected to it. Now I see that what occurred, as with all other auditing, was that Yvonne's reactions to death were temporarily desensitized.

230. Over the next few weeks Yvonne's condition deteriorated rapidly. One day when we were outside, she spoke with increasing difficulty and went unconscious several times for short periods. It took us a long time to get up the stairs from the garden to the building Lobby, even with my help, because she could not coordinate her leg movements. She never received medical treatment of any kind that I know of.

231. Yvonne died in early 1978. No one I know of, except her family, was informed about her death for days or about funeral service. Nor were her close friends, such as I, given an opportunity to do a proper closure with Yvonne. We had a short briefing in which we were told that Yvonne had dropped her body happily and was in good case shape to pick up the next one, and that as this was a happy occasion, there was to be no time wasted in unnecessary grieving. Those most affected were only given auditing sessions.

232. Hubbard, in a published memo after her death, applauded Yvonne's achievements and granted her a leave of absence for twenty one years until she rejoined the Sea Organization in her next reincarnation.

The above statement written by Hana Eltringham and hosted on Mike Gormez' site Why are they dead.Thank You Mike.

Hana's affidavit is extremely harrowing reading.There are many cases of medical malpractice on the statement.

Quote from "Dianetics, the modern science of mental health" by L. Ron hubbard:

"At the present time dianetic research is scheduled to include cancer and diabetes. There
are a number of reasons to suppose that these may be engramic in cause, particularly malignant
cancer. This is remarked so that attention may be given to the possibility; no tests of any kind
have been made on cancer or diabetic patients, and the thought is purely theory and is not to be
taken as any kind of an avowal about a cancer cure. Those diseases which were catalogued
above, however, have been thoroughly tested and have uniformly yielded to dianetic therapy."
 
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