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Meditation, Yoga and other practices

Discussion in 'Evaluating and Criticising Scientology' started by Tom_Booth, Apr 19, 2014.

  1. clamicide

    clamicide Gold Meritorious Patron

    Actually, in the real world, it's just being plain pissed off. People who got sick of the cult fucking with them just have this 'odd' tendency to lash out stuff defending it. WAIT???? Is that some AMAZING tech that LRH discovered... omg...

    Holy fuck... I guess a comm line was being overwhelmed.... I feel SO much more edumacated... !!!!

    No offense... I had a bit of a fucked up day (guess I'm a bit PTS??? or something??? oh, or I better see what I did to PULL IT IN?)

    Ah, you know... instead of going to ethics, or writing O/Ws, I'm probably going to just freaking have a nice dinner and watch some Firefly then read a bit... and oddly enough, I'll probably get just as much, if not MORE case gain than any freaking session I ever doled out thousands of dollars for, or my pcs paid thousands of dollars for (wait, yes... I'm guessing you have decided by now I'm an evil SP--:melodramatic:)

    Seriously, why the FUCK do people keep trying to sell this stuff here?
  2. Tom_Booth

    Tom_Booth Patron with Honors

    Curious indeed.

    BTW, are you familiar with Hubbard's statements in lectures and writings where he equates the Scientology "Bridge" with the Mystic/Cabalistic concept of The Abyss.

    It was Crowley's life purpose to build a "bridge" across the "abyss" to enable humankind to realize divine potential in the physical realm.

    Whatever one might make of it, or whatever the reason may have been, Hubbard was initiated into the OTO. That much he never denied. There is a deep current flowing there I would say.

    In the PDC he calls Crowley "My very Good Friend". In the so-called Affirmation he calls Parsons his "comrad in arms".
  3. Leland

    Leland Crusader

    My older sister had a small book about meditation and yoga. It was rather old, say early 1960's. I was thumbing through it years ago and read " an exact word for word " bit of writing by LRH. I was very surprised.

    I will try to find it, photograph it, copy and post here in the future.
  4. Tom_Booth

    Tom_Booth Patron with Honors

    I'm not from Harlem. Never set foot in the place before a few months ago (January).

    Members of the Church here in Harlem actually drove several hundred miles to upstate NY to bring me down here.

    I took the invitation primarily because I feel I have a responsibility to the world.

    There are some problems with Scientology. Hubbard did not IMO REALLY understand what he was promulgating. Things have gone off the rails somewhat. If at all possible, I would like to do something to fix that.

    To start with, a survey of people in the area would be a start.

    In another sphere, take over leadership of the Church. Stop the alienation of people of faith in other religions. Reconcile things with the "Freezone" and independent Scientologists. Probably subject Scientology to a battery of Scientific tests so as to differentiate what is of some value from the pure crapola.

    For the most part I'll be doing something along these lines regardless of cooperation from the Church or lack of it. Scientology has, it seems to me, gone adrift without any real leader to give it direction or set new policy in the face of changing circumstances. What has been going on since Hubbard's passage has been, IMO, a gradual slide towards total oblivion.

    Maybe there is something worth salvaging. Maybe not. At the moment I'm just poking around getting a feel for what the actual circumstances really are.

    Any help or advice you can provide regarding the situation on the streets here would be quite welcome.
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2014
  5. Axiom142

    Axiom142 Gold Meritorious Patron

    If you don’t understand why these two are so ‘bitter’ about Hubb’s ‘Tek’ (not to mention about a million other people), then I suggest you do a bit more reading on ESMB. You clearly have no idea what Scientology is really about.

    If Scientology really is so marvellous, why does Li’l Davy have to spend so much time lying about the ‘straight-up and vertical stats’ (his own words) and pretending that ‘Scientology is growing more than evah before!’ when clearly it isn’t.

    ESMB isn’t populated by a bunch of panty-waists who dipped their collective toes into the Scientological waters and jumped straight out because it was too difficult to confront, there are literally tens of thousands of years collective experience here right from the very top of The Bridge to the bottom (both sides) and all levels of staff, including International Management.

    I challenge you to produce a more knowledgeable or authentic group of critics. Or perhaps you hold the typical Scientology view that no one has the right to criticise Scientology of Scientologists?

    You will find specifics on why Scientology doesn’t work here – you only have to look, but obviously you can’t be bothered. But in any case if you claim that it does, then the onus is on you to prove that it does work. If Scientology did work, how come virtually every org on the planet is failing? Why can’t the OTs just simply postulate a better world or confront us ‘SPs’ and shut us up? Name one person you know who has all the characteristics of a Clear as described by Hubbard in DMSMH.

    I could go on, but I think I have made my point. How about you come up with 3 examples of where Scientology has been proven to work exactly as advertised?

  6. Axiom142

    Axiom142 Gold Meritorious Patron

    That reminds me of someone. Oh yeah, me 28 years ago.

    I appreciate your candour, Tom. I expect you will need to find this out for yourself, but you are wasting your time – The CoS cannot be saved, salvaged or resuscitated. It is rotten to its very core.

    If you want to know what the CoS really is, go and look up the ‘characteristics of a cult’ and look at the way North Korea is run and compare both to the way the CoS operates. The fact that merely posting on ESMB is considered a Suppressive Act (if you don’t believe me, just go and tell your EO what you have been doing), should be a big red flag.

    Good idea, I predict that you won’t be left with much. Unlike the majority here on ESMB, I do think that there are good ideas and something of value in Scientology. But it is going to be a very dirty business sifting through the crap to find those precious pearls.

    Do whatever you want, it’s your life. But please, please keep your eyes open and don’t make any decisions that you can’t easily change your mind about.

  7. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    Thanks for the clarification, Tom. :)

    Maybe. Maybe not. Poor people are quite scared, and understandably so, with all the daily violence and problems they have. Door to door could be dangerous, you can be mistaken for someone else, your timing could be poor, or you may just have a lot of doors shut in your face.

    The only reason I was able to take the family pix I did was because I was a friend of a neighbour who had lived there all his life and I was staying at his place. They got to know me. Even then, some refused and got angry. If it weren't for the others knowing me and my immediately deleting pix they refused and respecting their rights, that could have been a problem.

    L Ron Hubbard, the founder of Scientology, was chased out of many countries, like Rhodesia. Some of it was violent, with rocks thrown at the ships. People got hurt. His tek doesn't work very well outside the closed environment of Scientology where everyone believes in it, and even there, it is so abusive to the staff, the children, the families. There are cultures and there are sub-cultures, there are also communities. One doesn't just walk up and become a trusted member and tell everyone what to do. Life just doesn't work that way. :no:

    I delivered the CDs and prints door-to-door. I told everyone where I lived (on their street). For the rest of the week, there were dozens of people knocking at the door thanking me or asking for copies. It was a beautiful thing - some even brought gifts. It was stunning how grateful they were. Those people had plenty of heart and did everything they could for their families. They loved those who respected their rights and helped them keep their families and homes.

    You don't need to start from scratch on the various problems in the ghettos and the culture. You can get some solid understanding and basics from the field of Sociology, where those studies have already been conducted. Of course, every area is different and there is more specific information needed for every community, but these are the sorts of things you find out by the people living there, not some pompous stranger.

    The University of Chicago's Sociology Department and students spent 20 years doing studies, improving conditions and helping the poor around the University. There were tremendously positive changes as a direct result of their actions. It was unfortunate when the students stopped, but those and many other studies are available. It sounds to me like you'd be a natural at studying Sociology and you can dig right in there and help in ways that really change things. You also might want to look up what happened that the students were no longer allowed to do their studies. Some were hurt. Be careful. Study, study, study what you can in Sociology first and put the Scientology aside and you can do it.

    You also can earn a very good salary after you finish University and not live like a nun in a cult while those at the top get rich off your efforts. Staff in Scn pays peanuts because you're just not important to them. Forget the BS of what an "honor" it is to be a staff member. It's a crock of shit. I was Scn staff for 9 years and wasted the best times of my life there. Nothing changed from scn, in fact, things got worse from within and without - scn destroyed families, lives. There were so many suicides of scientologists. True believers give up everything for that hope, then when they find out they've been conned or cut off from their loved ones, some just lose it altogether. It's a very mean cult that has no room for individual ideas, only followers willing to support those at the top so they can have their charge cards and gold plated plumbing taps and all those other stupid things while the rest of the staff are kept brainwashed enough to work their lives away for peanuts.

    Get enrolled in University, you can do it, you really can. Forget the side attractions and diversions designed by cults and study what you need and dig in with all your heart and mind. Keep it simple, keep it real. That's my advice.
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2014
  8. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    Some links

    Yes, I'm familiar.

    For starters, here's a link to the 'Sole Source Myth' thread. Contains many links and links within links. Most of the links still work. Is derailed and messy for while after page 4 or so, if you're curious. Has material re. the Crowley Connection:

    'The Scientological Onion', and links:

    'Bill Burroughs' vision - Let's explore inner space' thread:

  9. Terril park

    Terril park Sponsor

    Liked that one on my first 2 or 3 times through some years ago..
    Will read again :)
  10. Terril park

    Terril park Sponsor

    Reminds me of something Homer Wilson Smith said.[founder of ACT
    and I believe ARS]

    " I'm not going to let some green E/O tell me what I can do with my mind."

    Or something along those lines.
  11. Terril park

    Terril park Sponsor

    There is much in Scn and other practices which could be considered as falling into the category of meditation.

    Scn tries to guide this into a hierarchy of processes which in correct order
    gives increasing ability. Guided by C/Ses who have much study and knowledge.

    I'm in favour of this and have gained much in these processes. Yet maybe
    50% were irrelevant. Specially set ups and repair. I'm a "throw me in the
    deep end" kind of guy. Got this with Trey Lotz on L-11. He was determined to do
    the processes despite me thinking I was a "square ball bearing". Was great :)

    Psychotherapy is best I know not an exact science by any means. Not that
    I've studied it much. Scn is I consider more workable IMO. And is the same category of phenomena.

    I'm a very tough thetan. Resistant to much damage from anything. Yet I
    see that Scn misuse has been catastrophic to others.

    This has to be stopped.
  12. Mystic

    Mystic Crusader

  13. Terril park

    Terril park Sponsor

    I'm with you on the Crowley influence.

    A few months ago I attended a Gnostic Mass at an OTO chapter
    or whatever. It was quite beautiful. Written by Crowley.

    Here in UK I get daily religious broadcasts of CoE services. They seem to me
    to have no relevance to anything and are spoken is such sepulchral tones
    and I have no idea what the message is. Seems like propaganda.

    Note I love the 91 sayings they validate of Jesus in the 5 Gospels.

    The Gnostic mass ends for each individual saying " I am of the Gods"
    or similar.
  14. Terril park

    Terril park Sponsor

    No. The tech vols. That was his baby.
  15. Mystic

    Mystic Crusader

    Once one discovers the truth of spirit in meditation, all comparatives with anything Hubbard ever spewed vanish; all comparatives one has ever experienced in "auditing" vanish. There is no longer comparison. At that point, there is but The Path.
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2014
  16. lotus

    lotus stubborn rebel sheep!

    I like how you worded it Mystic - as it's very much the essence of meditaiton
    The path - not the goal or purpuse, but that path!

    We always encounter people who talk about their life experiences, bad or good, as experiences to grow, to learn, to change
    Their path, is the path!


    In my case, after I did experimented meditation about 15-20 years ago - I would never again loose my time and my mind with auditing.

    If I need to be listenned to, I have some very much good friends who love me and can do that for free and comfort me. For my spiritual path, I walk my path alone.
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2014
  17. Mystic

    Mystic Crusader


    The cognitive mind can be easily fooled.

    The enlightened mind has no need of being fooled.
  18. Mystic

    Mystic Crusader

    And I feel a burst of laughter coming on.

    If you can't say something Zen

    Then say nothing at all.

    That would be quite Zen.
  19. EP - Ethics Particle

    EP - Ethics Particle Gold Meritorious Patron

    Let he who is without Zen...

    Cast the first koan! :eyeroll:
  20. Tom_Booth

    Tom_Booth Patron with Honors

    I don't know.

    Before I came down here and I was getting calls asking me to come down and join staff, I told them over and over, you don't want me on staff. Do you know how many anti-scientology message boards I've posted on, using my real name. (I always use my real name) How many anti-scientology YouTube videos I've watched. There isn't anything I haven't seen.

    The stuff about Hubbard's connection with Crowley certainly doesn't bother me. I've been thinking for the past 40 years or so that I'm Crowley reincarnated.

    Nothing I said seemed to dissuade them.

    I started a Scientology Squirrel group you know. I've downloaded all the high level OT shit there is on the internet you know. Yes I meditate and practice yoga. Have been doing so most of my life.

    They still drove 300 miles to get me and set me up with a free room and provide train fare and pocket money and I get to listen to all the lectures I want. It seems like its nothing but events and parties and open house at least once a week.

    Well, if knowing all they already knew before taking me in, they still wanted me, well, you asked for it.

    I really could care less if anyone has something to say about me. What's the worst that could happen. I go back home to my place upstate. It would be Scientology's big loss if that happened in my opinion because I'm about the only one I think sometimes that gives a damn at all and I have some notion that I might be able to save a sinking ship.

    Is it worth the effort ?

    I don't know, but being on staff, I've gotten to know many of the Sea Org who some years ago signed a Billion year contract because Scientology was something they really believed in that strongly, and well, I feel responsible because Hubbard was, after all, my charge at one time.