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Meditation, Yoga and other practices

Discussion in 'Evaluating and Criticising Scientology' started by Tom_Booth, Apr 19, 2014.

  1. betskand

    betskand Patron with Honors

    I'm a little worried about something. Like everyone here, I wish you well and hope you will get out from under the Scientology brain-crushing machine.

    But you say you are on staff at the Harlem Org...how is it that you are posting so much on the Internet? Being on the Internet PERIOD is strictly forbidden. Given the amount of time you spend making ESMB posts, I would think a number have to be made while you are working at the Org, which, as you tell us, is very busy. Posting on an SP site while working at an Org would have to be VERY dangerous. How do you disguise what you are doing? Be VERY careful. We all want you to be safe.

    And not only are you posting and exploring the Internet...you are doing so on ESMB, which is FULL of SPs. As far as I know, communicating with SPs is ABSOLUTELY forbidden.

    If your situation is what you represent it to be, then it would seem you are in some danger of reprisals...and as we all know, reprisals, CO$-style, are nothing to mess with.

    If you continue it is likely that your annoyance at being told you can't meditate will be the least of your problems. Unless, I suppose, you are in OSA and are doing this for some reason other than the ones you talked about in your first post.

    Take care of yourself! We really don't want you to suffer or be hurt. I know all of us here have only the best wishes for you.
     
  2. Innominate Dude

    Innominate Dude No Longer Around

    Personally I always took the adage

    "If you meet Buddha on the road, kill him"
    :violent:

    to include the idea that if you encounter capital-T TRUTH on the capital-P PATH resulting in capital-E ENLIGHTENMENT, be sure to mark it up with graffiti.
    :moon:

    But maybe that's just me.
    :yes:


     
  3. Mystic

    Mystic Crusader

    I have met Buddha/Thoth along The Path.

    "Kill him" is just more Amero-Britannic spam.
     
  4. Innominate Dude

    Innominate Dude No Longer Around

    I only encountered him once, and we didn't chat, only made brief eye contact. I moved along before showing too plainly how unimpressed I was. My family was a pack of loyalists to this mediocrity, and I didn't want to make trouble for them. In about a month after that passing-by encounter I pretty much changed my status from alienated from Scientology to no longer the least concerned about ditching it forever, being about as important to a worthwhile life as an Orphan Annie secret decoder ring. ("Be sure to add Cal-Mag when you drink your Ovaltine.")

    My impression of him was that he was a rather ordinary human who'd achieved just a bit more in wealth and notice than others in society and had become less worthwhile to know because of the attitude that engendered - something extremely common in the town I grew up in. There was no presence to him as I'd encountered with other people I considered somewhat enlightened and worth listening to, sometimes including Scientologists. He plainly liked to eat and probably imbibe a bit, not take any exercise, and had a sort of surly air about him that suggests a complacent superiority, perhaps because he's had just stepped out of a gold Cadillac driven by servants and no one else around at the moment was doing the same. I really wasn't even impressed by expensive high performance cars at that time, you had to be in a Rolls Royce, and a recent model one at that, or else a very rare Ferrari like the California GTO to impress me as someone who stood out as a success. He was definitely out-ethnic if he was trying to posture himself as a big-shot among the rich and famous. The handful of servants around him looked too bitter and whipped in life to even think themselves worthy of owning any car, perhaps, and I knew what kind of abuse they put up with because he can't bother to have any sort of decent or admirable character. He wasn't much in person, but I'd hardly call him just some shell being operated by an inept congregation of inferior spirits.

    What leads you to such an extreme assessment of such a mediocrity? He was a cheap hustler who got rich and fawned over due to his skill at fraud, but there's an endless list of such people. They hardly need to be characterized demonically by giving them some special supernatural attributes.
     
  5. Innominate Dude

    Innominate Dude No Longer Around

    I think a heck of a lot of Buddhist leaders in traditional Buddhist homelands, Japan, Burma, etc., to think of a few off the top of my head, have frequently advised acolytes with the traditional admonition "If you meet Buddha on the road, kill him." It's hardly obscure. It's a historical teaching point that predates any Amero-Britannic involvement with Buddhism.

    Of course you seem to be more Tibetian oriented, it would seem. Perhaps they prefer the admonition to regard Buddha as if dried dung?

    :yes::yes::yes::yes::yes::yes::yes:
     
  6. well yes...

    we do know how the creed is often treated

    however, it is a good creed and if CoS it for window-dressing it can still be held by others

    it is only in light of the creed that auditing can be done properly. in fact if CoS is ever to improve it will be engineered by those who hold to the creed...
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2014
  7. and thank you for your personal affirmation of the creed and welcome to esmb...
     
  8. Tom_Booth

    Tom_Booth Patron with Honors

    Say's who ?

    I very much doubt there could be any policy statement from Hubbard to that effect. He died before the "internet" was invented.

    Like now you mean ? Sure.

    You know, some guy I got to be friends with here for a while came around with some BS for me to sign asking that I "accept him back into the group". He was feeling "guilty" because he was talking to someone with anti-scientology sentiments about anti-scientology videos on You Tube or some such. He was trying to get out of some "condition".

    I told him and the supervisor person with him I can't sign that As I don't recognize that he was ever out of the group in the first place. As far as I'm concerned he can talk to whomever he wants.

    I was told: "It's on his own self determinism".

    In other words, he "feels guilty" because he "did something wrong" so ...

    He assigned himself a "condition".

    As for me, I do not feel the least bit guilty about notin'. I'll damn well talk to whomever I please. Some "SP" on "ESMB" wana chat. Here's my cell # 646-610-1500 or call the org 212-828-1825 ask for Tom Booth.

    You know, I read Hubbard's books, Listened to a lot of the lectures. I like his stuff. I think for the most part it's great, even if he is just a big HAM. I think he's a mouthpiece for some Thelemite group, most of whom would not want to be in the public light. Listening to the lecturesI sometimes get the feeling he had the material written and approved for him by some committee or something. He even mentions something along those lines in one lecture. He skipped the last lecture because he didn't get approval or some such. So much for "Source".

    Hubbard spent how much time traveling around giving lectures ? And is supposed to have come up with all this stuff when ?

    "If your situation is what you represent it to be, then it would seem you are in some danger of reprisals...and as we all know, reprisals, CO$-style, are nothing to mess with."

    There I think you may be just a tad out of touch with current situations. Or I am.

    Reprisals for what ? Communicating ? Anybody ever here of A-R-C ? Communication is OK. Isn't it ?

    Of course, what religion in history didn't sooner or later turn into the opposite of what it originally represented ? Jesus worked miracles and said his followers would do the same. Many if not most Christians today would flatly deny miracles saying that they "expired" with the apostles or some such nonsense.

    The oldest forms of Buddhism were all about cultivated the Siddhis as a means to enlightenment. Today Buddhism says stay away from the siddhis.

    So... when push comes to shove, if what I find "In the Church" is contrary to what I have read in the books or heard in the lectures, or in fact, if it just goes against common sense, reprise away. If Scientology has slipped that far down the tubes that somebody is going to sanction ME for trying to apply it in my own life or in my own environment here at the Org, well. I guess we will see who comes out on top.

    As far as I'm concerned... has anyone ever listened to that lecture about Miracles ? I think that was the one... maybe not, I'll find out and let you know but anyway, he says that Scientology material should be FREELY AVAILABLE, and that if the day came when it wasn't that they (Scientologists) would end up just some kind of mysterious cult and sink into obscurity. He said the only reason it wasn't given away more freely was the cost of printing and distribution. The internet obviates the necessity for cost of any kind associated with the free distribution of Scientology materials. I think they could make a bundle by making quality edited and approved materials available for download at a modest price. otherwise, before much longer they won't be making a damn thin dime as it's all free on the internet already anyway. (But often poor quality - OCR errors and such)

    I said, in this or another thread here that I'm basically a freezoner.

    I think it is rather silly that the whole world can download OT material from Wiki-leaks or a dozen other sources and Scientologists themselves, or maybe at least some of them think they have to put on blinders and avoid looking at what the entire rest of the world already knows and has seen on South Park. Somethings gotta give.

    It's like when Christians were forbidden to read the Bible and then Gutenberg came along.
     
  9. Tom_Booth

    Tom_Booth Patron with Honors

    The lecture was from the Golden Dawn, Phoenix Evening Lectures series (Disk 9, tracks 3 and 4 recorded Feb 2nd 1955) The lecture on Miracles is also included in that series.

    Hubbard repeats the sentiment several times on those two tracks and seems quite adamant that Dianetics and Scientology materials have "No Title on it, no tag on it", that he would rather see the material freely distributed and used, even if it is sometimes abused, rather than not be freely available. That if the information were monopolized or made "absolutely sacred" and available only to some select few that "we would go into a sort of mysterious sort of cult and that would be the end of that piece of information...", that the goal is for the information to be distributed "we do not care how or along what channels..." and that all that prevents making the information more freely available is "simply the matter of finance and printing presses, that's all..." and that if there was such a thing as a printing press that that would "simply run those books" that it would be made "much more freely available... ...not to make any pennies..."

    Aside from all that, I find the title given this series, and even the location where the lecture was given rather interesting in relation to the Crowley connection. Crowley's secret name in the OTO was Phoenix... and "The Golden Dawn" - The Hermetic Order to which Crowley belonged. Just coincidence?
     
  10. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    What you quoted was LIP SERVICE

    One month later, in March 1955, Hubbard wrote the 'Manual on Dissemination of Material':

    "Never defend. Always attack...

    "If you discover that some group calling itself 'precept processing' had set up and established a series of meetings in your area, you should do all you can to make things interesting for them.... The least that could be done in such an area is the placement of a suit against them... The purpose of the suit is to harass and discourage rather than to win.

    "The law can be used very easily to harass... If possible, of course, ruin him utterly."


    ___________​


    And from the 1959 'HCO Manual of Justice':

    "Overt investigation of someone or something attacking us by an outside detective agency should be done more often and hang the expense. It's very effective. Often an investigation by a private detective has alone closed up an entheta source or a squirrel organization...

    "Tell the detective, 'We don't care if they know you're investigating them for us. In fact, the louder the better'."


    __________​


    And these instructions regarding a squirrel group:

    "Any meeting held by them should be torn up. The names of persons attending should be collected...

    "Treatment - They are each fair game, can be sued or harassed...

    "Harass these people in any possible way..."

    'HCO Executive Letter', 27 September 1965


    _________​



    23 December 1965, 'Suppressive Acts, Suppression of Scientology and Scientologists:


    "Suppressive acts are defined as actions or omissions undertaken to knowingly suppress, reduce, or impede Scientology or Scientologists.

    "Such suppressive acts include public disavowal of Scientology... public statements against Scientology.


    "[Suppressive acts also include] continued membership in a divergent group; continued adherence to a suppressive person or group pronounced a suppressive person or group by HCO; failure to handle, or disavow, or disconnect from a person demonstrably guilty of suppressive acts; being at the hire of anti-Scientology groups or persons."
     
  11. Ho Tai

    Ho Tai Patron Meritorious

    How on God's green earth (I love that corny phrase) would you have any idea whether or not that is true? Maybe people don't mention it because it is just another "fact" thrown out by Hubbard to convince his minions that $cn is the only way. People don't mention it because the vast majority of us have either never heard it or recognize it for the BS that it is. The few that do believe it will believe anything that Hubbard says because they have stopped using their rational faculties and are mindless Ronbots. I hope that you still have the courage to apply these words from the Creed of the Church of Scientology: "That all men have inalienable rights to think freely, to talk freely, to write freely their own opinions and to counter or utter or write upon the opinions of others." Ask yourself whether you should accept someone else's words blindly, or whether you should apply "Personal Integrity" and examine that which you are given to accept. Once your eyes are opened I hope to see you back here in a different frame of mind! :yes:
     
  12. Mystic

    Mystic Crusader

    Enlightenment has nothing to do with "stable results".

     
  13. Mystic

    Mystic Crusader

    "Stable results", a hubbard-thing contamination.

     
  14. Cat's Squirrel

    Cat's Squirrel Gold Meritorious Patron

    Terril, have you ever listened to Choral Evensong on Radio 3? They chant in a monotone at one point (and if it's a High Church, which it usually is, they also have "bells and smells" (bells, robes, candles and incense). I once read that it satisfies the conditions of being an occult ceremony.

    I don't know if American churches have anything like it; from what I understand they don't.
     
  15. Cat's Squirrel

    Cat's Squirrel Gold Meritorious Patron

    If you're interested in Thelema, Israel Regardie (who was a full student of Crowley before they fell out, partly because of Crowley's anti-semitism as Regardie was Jewish) is probably a better bet. His book about the Middle Pillar meditation got me througfh a very rough period once.

    I always thought Crowley was running his own case anyway. He came from a very strict religious background (Plymouth Brethren I believe) and for the whole of his life seemed preoccupied with finding ways to make faces at people who he saw as being like his parents, such as by saying how "evil" he was. He was a brilliant man - a local chess champion, for instance - but a very flawed one whose sympathies for other people, especially those who weren't of his near-aristocratic social class, were often rather limited.

    As Colin Wilson (who wrote a biography of Crowley) said, he more or less admitted that he was a failure as a human being.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2014
  16. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    Posting this is pointless, as Tom_Booth, by his own admission, is not here to learn anything - so why is he here? Mmmm... - anyway, I'll place this on this thread so as not to derail Tory's thread:


    ________​


    What if the auditing with other practices is done away from the Org? in private, on one's own time?

    And what if it's not private?

    What if one tells others about it outside the Org, or advertises outside the Org? or starts one's own group? Is that OK?

    What would happen to someone who mixed some part of Scientology with his PRIVATE - ON THEIR OWN TIME alternative mental disciple or exercise? Would that be OK?

    From the [mid 1950s] "Creed of the Church of Scientology":

    "That all men have the inalienable rights to conceive, chose, assist and support their own organizations, churches, and governments.

    "That all men have the inalienable rights to think freely, to talk freely, to write freely their own opinions and to counter and write upon the opinions of others."


    Yes, something like that. Is that OK?

    If someone wants to mix milk with lemon juice, then that's none of your, or your cult's, business.

    But, obviously, you and your cult don't agree with that.

    [​IMG]


    ________​


    In March 1955 - shortly after activating his "religion angle" (as he called it) and authoring the "Creed of the Church of Scientology" - Hubbard wrote the 'Manual on Dissemination of Material'. He had devised an elaborate system of layering and compartmentalizing Scientology, so as to monitor who says what to whom:


    "An outline of the communication lines of Scientology followed:


    "1. [What we would like the] General public [to say] to the general public.

    "2. Scientologists to general public."

    And then eight more categories of ________ to ____________.


    More from Hubbard's 1955 'Manual on Dissemination of Material' [bracketed material added]:

    "...the communication line ['to wogs'] is that Scientologists do not pose any threat, that Scientologists are good citizens, and that they can be trusted with problems of a private and confidential nature... Another frame of mind that we would like to see the public have and register are that people attacking Scientologists have something wrong with them... As a subdivision of this, the actual substance of communication about what Scientology actually is... from the general public to the general public [what the "wogs" should say to each other about Scientology] should be that Scientology says that good health and immortality are attainable. That it is compounded out of all Man knows about Man..."

    And,

    "The DEFENSE of anything is UNTENABLE... the only way to defend anything is to ATTACK... NEVER BE INTERESTED IN CHARGES. DO, yourself, MUCH more charging, AND YOU WILL WIN...

    "Never defend. Always attack...

    "If you discover that some group calling itself 'precept processing' had set up and established a series of meetings in your area, you should do all you can to make things interesting for them.... The least that could be done in such an area is the placement of a suit against them... The purpose of the suit is to harass and discourage rather than to win.

    "The law can be used very easily to harass... If possible, of course, ruin him utterly."



    __________​


    And from the 1959 'HCO Manual of Justice':

    "Dianetics and Scientology are self-protecting sciences. If one attacks them one attacks all the know-how of the mind. It caves in the bank. It's gruesome sometimes.

    "At this instance there are men hiding in terror on Earth because they found out what they were attacking. There are men dead because they attacked us - for instance Dr. Joe Winter [wrote Introduction to 'DMSMH', and the book, 'A Doctor's Report on Dianetics' with an Introduction by Fritz Perls]. He simply realized what he did and died. There are men bankrupt because they attacked us - [Don] Purcell, Ridgeway, [publisher of 'DMSMH'] Ceppos."


    __________​


    "Find or Manufacture enough threat." L. Ron Hubbard, 'Department of Government Affairs', 1960


    ____________​


    "Have you ever had unkind thoughts about L. Ron Hubbard?" L. Ron Hubbard, Security Check, 1961


    ___________​


    Some more items, in no particular order:


    "No rights of any kind... Dispose of quietly and without sorrow." L. Ron Hubbard, 'Science of Survival', 1951


    __________​


    "I can make Napoleon look like a punk." L. Ron Hubbard, from his 'Excalibur' letter of 1938, writing of those who would interfere with his plan to "smash" his "name into history."


    _________​


    From the 1969 HCOPL, 'Discipline - SPs and Admin':

    "I am not interested in 'wog' morality... If anyone is getting industrious trying to enturbulate or stop Scientology or its activities, I can make Captain Bligh look like a Sunday School teacher."


    ___________​


    7 March 1965, 'Suppressive Acts, Suppression of Scientology and Scientologists, the Fair Game Law':

    "A Suppressive person or group becomes 'fair game'.

    "By Fair Game is meant, without rights for self, possessions or position, and no Scientologist may be brought before a Committee of Evidence or punished for any action taken against a Suppressive Person or group...

    "Suppressive acts are defined as actions or omissions undertaken to knowingly suppress, reduce, or impede Scientology or Scientologists.

    "Such suppressive acts include public disavowal of Scientology... public statements against Scientology.


    "[Suppressive acts also include] continued membership in a divergent group; continued adherence to a suppressive person or group pronounced a suppressive person or group by HCO; failure to handle, or disavow, or disconnect from a person demonstrably guilty of suppressive acts; being at the hire of anti-Scientology groups or persons.

    "[Suppressive acts also include] 1st degree murder, arson, disintegration of persons or belongings not [underlining added] guilty of suppressive acts.

    "[Suppressive Persons] place themselves beyond any consideration for their feelings :nazi:or well being...

    "The homes, property, places, and abodes of persons who have been active in attempting to suppress Scientology... are all beyond any protection."



    In 1968, the public use of the name "Fair Game" was prohibited, as it caused "bad public relations." However, all Fair Game practices, and the Fair Game philosophy, continued. Hubbard also developed an extensive Fair Game (attack and covert attack) Tech for use against Scientology's "enemies."

    A few years later, he developed PR Tech, with which to shroud applications of Scientology's Fair Game philosophy and Tech, and with which to better handle any "PR flaps" resulting from occasional exposures of the use of Fair Game.


    _________​


    Some more LRH tech for dealing with people who mix milk with lemon juice:


    "Overt investigation of someone or something attacking us by an outside detective agency should be done more often and hang the expense. It's very effective. Often an investigation by a private detective has alone closed up an entheta source or a squirrel organization...

    "Tell the detective, 'We don't care if they know you're investigating them for us. In fact, the louder the better'."

    'HCO Manual of Justice', 1959


    __________​


    "Any meeting held by them should be torn up. The names of persons attending should be collected...

    "Treatment - They are each fair game, can be sued or harassed...

    "Harass these people in any possible way..."

    'HCO Executive Letter', 27 September 1965


    _________​


    "...You find out where he or she works or worked, doctor, dentist, friends, neighbors, anyone, and phone 'em up and say, 'I'm investigating Mr./Mrs.________ for criminal activities'.

    "You say now and then, 'I have already got some astounding facts', etc., etc., (Use a generality) - It doesn't matter if you don't get much info. Just be NOISY." [sic]

    'HCO Executive Letter', 18 February 1966


    _________​


    "Statements one makes can be curved. 'She had a birthday party' becomes 'The delinquent's inner circle gathered yesterday for a sex orgy and pretended to the police it was a birthday party. No one was jailed'."

    'Public Relations Series 18', 21 November 1972


    ________​


    And some more

    "Legal":

    [​IMG]


    __________​


    The above was in reference to the David Mayo legal case. He mixed milk with lemon juice OPENLY!

    AND THAT IS NOT PERMITTED!!!!!

    So much for your precious 'Creed."
     
  17. So...according to Arnie's scale...you are somewhere between step 3 and 4. Good luck to you...keep researching and keep thinking!

    From: http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?t=6961

    "Title: 9 steps out of Scientology (10th added for this post to OCMB )
    Author: Arnie Lerma
    Date: 31 Aug 1997

    I was in the cult and on staff for 10 years... here are the stages I have seen... as one exits the 'Hubbardian' mind control program....

    1) There is something wrong here, if this is so great, then
    why is (______) going on?

    [ insert whatever atrocity you have recently witnessed ]

    2) The guys at the top must be crazy

    3) Miscavige and crew are evil demons from another dimension
    [ or something similar ]

    4) Hubbard went crazy at the end .....

    5) Hubbard went crazy in 1966

    6) Hubbard was mad from the start.

    7) This whole thing is a complete fraud

    8) my god, its a criminal organization... with criminal convictions
    all over the world... and it was only about money

    9) realization that THERE ARE NO OT's THERE!

    10) realizing, after leaving Scientology, this makes one an ex-nazi and wanting to do something about it "

    While you're at it...go peruse Arnie's website: http://www.lermanet.com/
     
  18. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation



    The only (real) pre-requisite for joining staff these days is gullibility but being a complete nut job does seem to help so I can see why they wanted you.

    Enjoy saving the planet Mr Crowley, I've no doubt at all that you will be the one to succeed, you are definitely more than a bit "special".


    :lol:
     
  19. Claire Swazey

    Claire Swazey Spokeshole, fence sitter

    Aw, fuuuckkkk... I luuuurve being a pantywaist dilettante. They tried to make me stop being one, yanno, in Hubbardland, then, comically, amongst my fellow critics...and I just think that steely eyed fanaticism never suited. Noooo desire to trade one cult for another ruther one. Doesn't mean I don't take a stand or that other alleged dilettantes don't. One can take many definite and definitive stands, clearly stating which things are wrong and evil without being fanatical. There are many ways to be a critical ex. So one poster cannot accurately speak for all others. No offense.
     
  20. Claire Swazey

    Claire Swazey Spokeshole, fence sitter

    CofS members aren't suppised to talk to exes, skeptics, etc, on the net. But if one keeps identity secret, they can do what they like.

    Speakin' from experience and all....:biggrin: