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Mentally Damaged Ex-Scientologists

Pixie

Crusader
Re damage suffered--

It's different for different people. There are people who've had breakdowns. And there are people with ongoing emotional issues because of what CofS did to them. And there are people who don't have any issues but have diminished quality of life due to things like disconnection and other awful practices.

Not the same for everybody.

No, exactly, how could it possibly be the same for everybody when we are all unique??
 

asagai

Patron Meritorious
That's not at all what I said, BG.

We are definitely bodies. I can prove it to you.

Look down at your hands... are they on your keyboard or on your mouse?

Are your hands really totally separate from you?

There is such a thing as "dualism" and "nondualism" (these are hyperlinks!)

Take a look at "nondualism"

When you really get an idea of these, especially as they are taught in Buddhism, you get that Hubbard used DUALISM as one of his traps.

Don't blow me off.

Read about these concepts - look at them through other eyes than Hubbard's.

MEST exists.

Spirit exists.

BOTH of them do.

There was a guy on ESMB named "Operating Lamda" once. That came from the Dianetics Axioms that Hubbard wrote in the early 1950's.

Don't dismiss this idea like Hubbard taught you to, as a knee jerk reaction against the "Materialists" or "Brain Theory Boys".

Look at it with new eyes, outside the cult.


This is why you should stay on ESMB, Alanzo, for your wonderful posts that can be so helpful to exes.

Non-dualism cannot be forced upon people, by definition! :hysterical:. Any point of view posted on ESMB is by definition dualistic, and debate is a kind of force and less than perfect, but if we retain a vision of and return to the utlimate non-dualism, then our posts are mere passing illusions and we do not stick in them too fixedly.

The end is guaranteed by the very nature of the dualistic illusion and we are well as we always were.

Keep this flame alive for exes who are stuck in Ron's dualistic philosophy, Alanzo! and as well as "losing" your hands, can I suggest losing your head! A wonderful experience of the non-dualistic glory of the All! :happydance:
 

Mojo

Silver Meritorious Patron

Good reference, good read, thanks Paul. My post was of course referring to material found in Mojopedia, not Wikipedia. Lol.

Kidding aside I imagine an argument (i.e. theory) could be made for both Wiki's and Mojo's interpretations being in someway connected. For example a third person 'point of view' has been referred to (by others) as: "A narrative perspective that does not belong to a specific character in the novel. Such narrators are often ‘omniscient’; they are all-knowing...." Standing next to a quote from Wiki's Third Eye definition: "It is also spoken of as the gate that leads within to inner realms and spaces of higher consciousness".

To me accurate spiritual perception both includes (per Wiki) and excludes (per Mojo) one's individual human character/person......from the realization of the higher meaning of any given manifest drama, or the spiritual (i.e timeless) question it presents to be answered. So to speak. It is, in a sense, looking without being there, whilst knowing nothing outside of the self is actually there, being looked at, to begin with. Which is why such a deep & rich & full uncontainable laughter is often present with such an "I" (audible or silent) when and where such an "I" is made-manifest in the world.

Calling itself as it does, I do & I am:
Mojo
 
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apple

Patron Meritorious
This was good reading. I appreciate the books mentioned here, I will pick them up to read after I finish with the Suzanne Somers book Im reading now. I have been on this site for a few days, it helped I am almost ready to continue on, leave, even this site. I know that Scn has screwed me up to some degree but nothing like some of the other stories that I read. I will continue with my progression with life, a normal life, not focused on anything strongly. Not focused on dismantalling Scn. (they will do this to themselves eventually) but I will gentley suggest that scn people and non scn people to read anti scn material, it helps. I do not want to exchange one obsession for another. PIXIE, I have experienced the strong insecure feeling that you have when I first left. It was hell, I couldnt decide what to have for breakfast, it was that confusing. Eventually it works out of the system. But even after all these years some still remains. I explained it in my other posts. I know who I am, I am helpful, I care, I am considerate, I am intelligent, I am passionate about some things, Im good at my job, I am not a bad person, I want good things for others that deserve them, oh and Im a good cook. I find after leaving, focusing on something else, like work,hobby, politics whatever one wanted to do, to what ability one can, helps. Some great advice I read here was not to use or think in Scn words or terms. This is helpful, its like walking the razers edge, where you have to watch yourself.
 

apple

Patron Meritorious
more to the above

.....Oh, I am also so incredibilly handsome. All woman would want to have my child..........Am I delusional?............... No, I think not any more than when I was when active in Scn.!
 

GreyLensman

Silver Meritorious Patron
The beings still inside are damaged. They just don't know it yet.

Those of us outside are either ok, or recovering. You have to know there is a problem or situation before youcan begin to handle it.
--gl

There is a datum creeping around that Ex-Scientologists are damaged in the head.

It's a useful datum for militants to inspire their troops and fresh recruits. It also easily "dead-agents" anyone who has a moderate stance against Scientology and has criticisms for the excesses of the militants.

But are we really mentally damaged from Scientology?

I mean really?

Are Ex-Scientologists any more "damaged" than a person who has gone through a lengthy divorce after many years of control and abuse?

Everyone has trouble, and betrayals, even colossal betrayals, in their lives. A lot of people have actually been physically tortured, really imprisoned wrongfully for decades. Some have even been executed after being imprisoned wrongly, and tortured all along the way.

In all of human history, think of the injustices that humans have had to endure. Witches have been burned at the stake: Actually tied up to a pole and burned to death, while others watched and cheered. Europeans have tried repeatedly to completely wipe out Jews from the face of the Earth. Armenians have been the target of the same. Pol Pot and Stalin and others have doled out MUCH more injustice and betrayal than Hubbard ever could muster.

I mean come on!

I think this is a bullshit datum and a very unhealthy way to see yourself, if you have accepted it.

So if you have accepted it - take a look at it.

Is it really true?

I have.

And I say no.

8 years out now, and I can say that I am better off today, for what I have experienced and learned from my time in, and getting out of, the Cult of Scientology.

I am stronger, and I am much wiser than I ever was.

Damaged? There was damage. Financially and emotionally. But life is full of damage.

Am I mentally damaged from my time in Scientology?

No.

Maybe from something else, but not my time in Scientology....
 

wogmonster

Patron
Those things you mention above have happened and still happen in Scientology, so the damage would depend on what the individual experiences were and how they were coped with. Some people do better at it than others.

I think it's healthy - and hard at first - to accept there is damage. Why do you think that writing stories here brings up so much emotion? IMO it's because the damage is finally allowed to manifest and thence to be healed.

It feels like the pits to say "I was damaged" and allow that thought to bring up what it needs to. It feels like you are a complete and utter failure per Scientology standards, which is the hardest thing of all.

Yes I was damaged, badly so.

No I am not so damaged now. Because I am prepared to admit it, talk about it and find ways to heal it. I have been doing it for 10 years. ESMB's environment brought up damage I did not even realise existed! And in a short time, by experiencing those issues in all the glory of tears, anger and laughter, they are gone. I realise it will always be an ongoing thing, finding those hidden pieces of indoctrination, however compared to when I originally left I can say I am a different person. :happydance:

We don't need to go putting labels on things. Who exactly is offering this datum you say is creeping in? We are all individuals, with different lessons. I know some people so damaged by Scientology that it breaks your heart. I know others who coped in a different way and seem able to go on with life quite happily.

Sure compared to the atrocities this world can offer, it may be small potatoes. Yet each person makes up part of the whole, and to the extent they are not healed, we all suffer to some degree.

I agree with this. When I first left, I went into seclusion for a period. During this period, I detoxed quite a bit as well as processed quite a bit. I also got very sick. At the time, I likely could have been clinically diagnosed as insane. This passed and I eventually set out to build a new life for myself. yet I was always defensive around the concept of the Cult and took pains to ensure I did not show up on their radar.

Now, after twenty years, the emotional content has resurfaced but I realize this is but another aspect of the growth and personal training I am undergoing in my personal spiritual journey. I am now required to deal with this old garbage to a place of resolution. But now I can experience and deal with the anger, the hatred, all of the negative aspects and discover what is truly mine and what is not.

So, I am healing. I can now begin to look upon those sad individuals still trapped in a crazy system and not feel fear but a profound sadness for them. There are some individuals I don't know if I will ever forgive, but time can act as a balm. Some individuals are going to have a hell of a Karmic debt, in order for them to truly move forward. But at least I know this about myself and that I have these concepts and precepts and know that they are mine and no one else's. I am no longer an automaton, afraid to live my very own life.

Damaged goods? Why not. Doesn't mean they can't be fixed or even upgraded and improved upon. that is what has happened to me. I learned much through Scientology, though not what they really wanted me to learn. But new eyes are new eyes and they can not be fooled.:hifive:
 

KnightVision

Gold Meritorious Patron
For me the question is not IF I (or others) have been mentally damaged...

It's more a question of... IS IT PERMANENT??!!! And... how long will it last?

It is quite impossible to not be damaged unless one was mostly covertly in disagreement with most of what they were taught in Scientology.

Being a MEST body??? Fu*ck you Hubbard, you fat lying SOB slob!

Try not eating, drinking, peeing or pooping... watch how long you last. That we can have a good hand in controling things is fair enough but just try controlling anything very long while violating the fact that we are utterly dependent upon the physical universe as much as it depends upon us. We are one. And we have no choice in the matter if we wish to live in harmony with it.

This is but one of hundreds of concepts and beliefs that preclude practicing Scientology. Mentally damaged? You bet your ass.

Now can it be fixed? Yes I believe so, I've experienced it so.

Then there is the ultimate mind fu*ck of all time... Scientology was supposed to be giving you better survival skills, just tops... best of all other philosophies...

Well I'd be a monkeys ass if there are anywhere near a majority of folks who are in or out who are living the 'good life'. We are most likely just living life, not that that is bad, wrong or downstat. It's just life. And life can be great, even in struggle and difficulty. But upper cutting edge? Exceeding mankind as a whole? Send your stories... I'd like to know.

Now who pays tens if not hundreds of thousands of duckies or puts forth untold years of suffering and dedication as a staff member... for the glory of life beyond one's wildest dreams..... and ends up coming to terms with reality- the one where you're here on the same terms as all other humans... and then doesn't suffer mental difficulties?

Crawling out of the ass*hole of Scientology is one of the most difficult tasks that one will experience in their life... at least it was for me. Am I alone? Somehow I think that this board would not be here if I were...

Not me. And thank God for that! I'm Human! Spiritual! I am cause and effect! I am thankful and respectful for this journey and opportunity. I don't know where it started. I don't know where it ends. And I don't believe that it matters a hoot if I know that or not. I know now. And now is splendid when I let it be and participate to my best foot forth.

There is a wealth of helpful and fruitful practices and methods out here for all to benefit from... (and heal our wounds with) but, at least in my case... I only really began seeking them when I got off my high horse arrogance that I already had to a degree and found propelled into high gear by.... from injecting Ron's Majic in my veins.
 

wogmonster

Patron
I hate the definition of MEST. It is extremely arrogant in it's attitude. As if MEST is any less important than anything else. But Hubbard was very flippant in that way. Just listen to any tape.

My belief is that yes we have physical bodies, but that is not the all of who we are. The body (IMO) is made up of the Physical Body, the Emotions and the Mind. Then there is the Spirit (or Thetan - I hate that term as well). Sure, I have lots of memories of going 'whole track' even from my very first set of TRs.

But I have always held the belief that I am here (in physical form as a combined being of both spirit and local physicality) in order to learn lessons I am not otherwise integrating into my beingness.

The militant, mental concept of the cut and dried process Scientology promoted (which was as equally flippant as Hubbard ever was - IMO) which was going to save the world was ludicrous to me when I finally saw the light.

Yes, I was brainwashed by the cult, but ultimately it didn't fundamentally change my beliefs of what I was as a being.

To me it is more important to be integrated in my beingness so that all my parts are working well together so that I can best learn the lessons given to me by the Universe.
 

Amadeus Einstein

Patron with Honors
I don't think I felt damaged from the actual practice of Scientology, in and of itself. But I definitely felt like damaged goods after coming back from Flag. The food was so disgusting as to be inedible, we never got enough sleep and I have to leave the room if someone starts yelling, to this day.
 

uniquemand

Unbeliever
I have a tendency to stick sponges down the throats of people who are yelling without a very good reason. I find it highly effective.
 

Pixie

Crusader
I agree with this. When I first left, I went into seclusion for a period. During this period, I detoxed quite a bit as well as processed quite a bit. I also got very sick. At the time, I likely could have been clinically diagnosed as insane. This passed and I eventually set out to build a new life for myself. yet I was always defensive around the concept of the Cult and took pains to ensure I did not show up on their radar.

Now, after twenty years, the emotional content has resurfaced but I realize this is but another aspect of the growth and personal training I am undergoing in my personal spiritual journey. I am now required to deal with this old garbage to a place of resolution. But now I can experience and deal with the anger, the hatred, all of the negative aspects and discover what is truly mine and what is not.

So, I am healing. I can now begin to look upon those sad individuals still trapped in a crazy system and not feel fear but a profound sadness for them. There are some individuals I don't know if I will ever forgive, but time can act as a balm. Some individuals are going to have a hell of a Karmic debt, in order for them to truly move forward. But at least I know this about myself and that I have these concepts and precepts and know that they are mine and no one else's. I am no longer an automaton, afraid to live my very own life.

Damaged goods? Why not. Doesn't mean they can't be fixed or even upgraded and improved upon. that is what has happened to me. I learned much through Scientology, though not what they really wanted me to learn. But new eyes are new eyes and they can not be fooled.:hifive:

Excellent post! Very real and down to earth, you tell it like it is. Good for you in escaping the mind fuck and good luck with your future. :thumbsup:
 

La La Lou Lou

Crusader
I must say my days on staff and especially the so did leave me dazed. But really it's only been two decades and Im nearly human again.
The major problem was finding yourself lying on the quayside flapping and your gills stretching out for water, a sodding big hook through your jaw.
Coming back from Iraq would be pretty similar, youde be far more traumatised and would go for the throat any time someone sneezed, but similar.

Trying to learn again to talk woggese. Trying to not hate people for being so diletanty that theyde watch telly. Total culture shock. Some people are more resiliant than others, some just bounce right back, good for them.
I had gone vertually into staff straight from school and was there in my fourties with no exchangeble qualification. not only had I been enslaved, but because I was doing that I hadnt qualified to be in the wog world, there I was intelligent, reasonably educated but without anything higher than school to use to get a job. When youve invested so much of your time and twisted your mind to accept the bollocks (sorry Americans, theyre furry round things, live in men's trousers)you cant just go snap, ah yes thats what I used to believe before, theres a hell of a lot of examining to do. I think I'll be doing that for a very long time. But Ive got myself a degree now, I have friends who dont even know that Hubbard existed. Ive sorted out my sexuality. I believe that 'making a difference' is way better than struggling to clear a planet.

I am reconnecting to the goals and purple seeds I had before and things are going well. But it's taken twenty years of self hatred, self esteem at rock bottom, twenty years of knowing that if I didnt get case gain it was because I was so evil as to want to have sex with my own gender. That I had left all those fine people to carry on and that they would be overworked and go through hell because of me. I must try and be attracted to the other sex. Oh no a nicely filled pair of jeans, quick look away, try to think of something else. Must have, cant have, must have, cant have. I was insane all right, and the method that got me there was the very one the psches were accused of. If I see a nicely stuffed pair of jeans now, I smile, look at the person attatched to the legs and not worry about anything, I have no must have or cant have, I can have if I want, I can chat someone of my own sex up and have done, it's great fun.

Yes I was damaged goods as a result of sleep deprivation, starvation (at one time I weighed about 6 and a half stone, nearly 6 foot tall!) extreme poverty and recycling cigarette butts (fag ends to us brits) didnt do my lungs much good. Continous inval and eval didnt help, destroying all my goals and purposes didnt help. Realising that Id have to wait a million years before I could again have sex the way I wanted to didnt help either. Obviously I didnt feel that good about myself to begin with, well destroy someones purposes and they have nothing and that's where I was.

Thankyou for anyone that's posted here, I read avidly though I refused to post anything incase the bolt of lightning came through the ceiling.

You are very right though, at some point you have to stop blogging and start living.
 

Night Owl

Patron with Honors
As a followup to the last post .....I just added a sig line finally.

"He (Krishnamurti) said he did not want to belong to any organization of a spiritual kind, because such an organization becomes a weakness, a bondage, and cripples the individual. He said that he did not want any followers or disciples, because the moment you follow someone you cease to follow Truth. He said that no one holds the key to Truth, that key is your own self, and in the purification and incorruptibility of that self alone."---Asit Chandmal (one Thousand Suns)
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
As a followup to the last post .....I just added a sig line finally.

"He (Krishnamurti) said he did not want to belong to any organization of a spiritual kind, because such an organization becomes a weakness, a bondage, and cripples the individual. He said that he did not want any followers or disciples, because the moment you follow someone you cease to follow Truth. He said that no one holds the key to Truth, that key is your own self, and in the purification and incorruptibility of that self alone."---Asit Chandmal (one Thousand Suns)

That's a good one.

I agree with that.

Now....
 

La La Lou Lou

Crusader
Krishnamurthi sounds cool, but Im sure LRH said some similar things, like it being true to you and all that, but the truth is there, oh yes code of honour, another of those things that tell you its ok to be who you are and not to compromise that, untill you go to ethics of course, for frying the wrong fish:happydance: .

The sentiment is great, you have the key, no one else. It's what Im starting to understand.

Thanks Owly and thanks Krishnamurthi!
 
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