Message to Mike Rinder.

I really don't think that these top ex-execs will totally come clean and spill it all. I believe they are playing another game and it's to remove Miscavige as COB ... oust him and take over the management of the Church.

Assume the worst: you are correct. This would STILL be a significant improvement as:

A. It would eliminate a MAJOR source of present day Co$ abuses.

B. The turmoil from such a move would likely create internal factions within the church, likely leading to further defections and quite possibly open schism.

C. Such events being reported in the media would result in further decline in the public's regard for the Co$.

D. Co$ would either reform for the better, or continue to limp along weakened and with similar policies under "new management".

On the whole, no real downside with definite upside potential. :thumbsup:


Mark A. Baker :D
 
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Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
Perhaps you'd like to link to what you refer to?

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=203263&postcount=1

In that regard, one poster demanded I confess to the FBI. Well, his J.Edgar heroes had me under intense surveillance, ran informants in on me, and tapped my phone over an extended period of time – all while I was in. When I got the two feet of transcripts of my phone calls through FOIA, the agent who ran the operation told me,”we did our best, but you just wouldn't take the bait.” So, a) they are the last people who are entitled to any confession by me, and b) I know for a fact they don't have the balls to ask for one. And that goes to the very top, to the punk (and I use the word advisedly from personal experience) who spent a year travelling around the globe trying to put me behind iron bars.

Zinj
 

scientrollogy

Patron with Honors
In that regard, one poster demanded I confess to the FBI. Well, his J.Edgar heroes had me under intense surveillance, ran informants in on me, and tapped my phone over an extended period of time – all while I was in. When I got the two feet of transcripts of my phone calls through FOIA, the agent who ran the operation told me,”we did our best, but you just wouldn't take the bait.” So, a) they are the last people who are entitled to any confession by me, and b) I know for a fact they don't have the balls to ask for one. And that goes to the very top, to the punk (and I use the word advisedly from personal experience) who spent a year travelling around the globe trying to put me behind iron bars.

spoken like a tru criminal innit?

it's not even like the FBI would be the winners mike, it's the people they work for = the rest of us, all the people who are so fucking miserable in their scilon lives
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
spoken like a tru criminal innit?

it's not even like the FBI would be the winners mike, it's the people they work for = the rest of us, all the people who are so fucking miserable in their scilon lives

Well, the person speaking is Marty Rathbun, not Mike Rinder, who has been far less public so far, except for 'confirming' beating allegations to the SP Times.

Zinj
 

SchwimmelPuckel

Genuine Meatball
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=203263&postcount=1
dude said:
In that regard, one poster demanded I confess to the FBI. Well, his J.Edgar heroes had me under intense surveillance, ran informants in on me, and tapped my phone over an extended period of time – all while I was in. When I got the two feet of transcripts of my phone calls through FOIA, the agent who ran the operation told me,”we did our best, but you just wouldn't take the bait.” So, a) they are the last people who are entitled to any confession by me, and b) I know for a fact they don't have the balls to ask for one. And that goes to the very top, to the punk (and I use the word advisedly from personal experience) who spent a year travelling around the globe trying to put me behind iron bars.
Zinj
I confess! - It was me, though I don't think it's much of an overt..

This post:
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=202713&postcount=85

And my answer, of sorts, here:
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=259482&postcount=90

Well, I don't necessarily think that the FBI are my J.Edgar heroes.. Mewhahr.. They are the 'law' however.. The fuzz..

And I'm quite satisfied to learn, from Mr. Rathbun, that they do keep an eye on the Sinister Scam Cult of Scientology... It's what they're supposed to do. It's their job!

I think what caused Mr. Rathbun to object so vehemently to FBI, and the WOG justice system.. Is that Scientology has 'the only justice system in this sector of the universe that actually works!' - And that, according to Hubbard, the WOG justice system is insane and supressive.

Well, I prefer the WOG justice system! - The worst possible nightmare scenario I can think of, is a society under Scientology rule!

And actually.. I believe that Mr. Rathbun would agree on that! - He'll maybe need some time to get over being pissed at the J.Edgar spooks who spied on him?

Anyway, I think he can assume that the OSA spooks are now spying on him instead.. But there's no FOIA that the Sinister Scam Cult of Scientology will answer to.. Tough shit! - It's not poetic justice exactly...

:hattip:
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Genesis

In the beginning Ron created the heavens and the earth.

CUT TO:

Adam & Eve Theta in the Garden of Tech Eden. They ate from the tree of forbidden knowledge. (knowledge that it doesn't work). Original Sin.

CUT TO:

Ron is a vengeful and jealous God. (something had better be done about sinners)

CUT TO:

Ron's crimes, human rights violations & malfeasance

which begat...

GUARDIANS OFFICE

Guardian's Office crimes, human rights violations & malfeasance

which begat....

OSA

OSA's crimes, human rights violations & malfeasance

which begat

FZOSA.

Free Zone OSA. (Rathbun)

Domino effect in play. Game not over yet.
 
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If the FBI spent that much time and effort, it makes me wonder who did "take the bait" and how many are eating it right now, inside or out of the cult.
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
Well, to judge by that, the 'Church' and Marty were pure as the driven snow... except when they obstructed justice and destroyed evidence of course, but, that's all beyond the statute of limitations.... (not)

Zinj
 

anon2487

Patron with Honors
Well, to judge by that, the 'Church' and Marty were pure as the driven snow... except when they obstructed justice and destroyed evidence of course, but, that's all beyond the statute of limitations.... (not)

Zinj
I'm not a Christian - about the only things I believe in are Coca Cola and miniskirts - but nonetheless, the words "he who is without sin, shall cast the first stone" spring to mind, particularly in your case.

You're quick to tell Marty that he should "confess to the FBI"...and whilst I'm not gonna repost the logs, I don't remember you following your own advice when your integrity was put to the test, for something every bit as bad, if not worse than anything Marty's alleged to have done.

With regards Marty though, when I first saw his video interview with the SP Times, I came away certain that he was hedging his PR bets carefully, and angling for a possible step into Little Davey's shoes.

However fine words apart, actions speak far louder, and whilst I'll continue to watch carefully, so far, so good: he's certainly abated almost all of my serious concerns, at any rate.

Some of his actions may appear self-serving, but my instinct is that they're judiciously self-protective: a means to an end, rather than an end in themself.

Wherever he is in his "decompression," I've certainly come to believe that there's a real core of decency underpinning it all, and ultimately he's heading towards a positive place. Maybe not the one that many of us would choose, but I don't believe it's one that there's any reason to fear either.

Time will tell though.
 

Terril park

Sponsor

ZINJ
"Marty quite obviously has no intention of helping David Miscavige to his well deserved prison cell because Marty would be his cellmate. Admittedly, he could confess to the feds, but, he's already made it clear that he has no intention of doing so. He said so here."

I confess I can't follow this all with perfect understanding.

Marty had the FBI on his tail while he was in?

Isn't that of MAJOR significance? I completely missed that aspect before.

So Marty is not friends with the FBI.

He's admitted publically beatings etc.

I think you were in someway referring to your bad experiences with the COS, and that Marty may have been involved. If so why not ask him about that on his blog. See how it goes and report whatever?
 

Terril park

Sponsor
I'm not a Christian - about the only things I believe in are Coca Cola and miniskirts - but nonetheless, the words "he who is without sin, shall cast the first stone" spring to mind, particularly in your case.

You're quick to tell Marty that he should "confess to the FBI"...and whilst I'm not gonna repost the logs, I don't remember you following your own advice when your integrity was put to the test, for something every bit as bad, if not worse than anything Marty's alleged to have done.

With regards Marty though, when I first saw his video interview with the SP Times, I came away certain that he was hedging his PR bets carefully, and angling for a possible step into Little Davey's shoes.

However fine words apart, actions speak far louder, and whilst I'll continue to watch carefully, so far, so good: he's certainly abated almost all of my serious concerns, at any rate.

Some of his actions may appear self-serving, but my instinct is that they're judiciously self-protective: a means to an end, rather than an end in themself.

Wherever he is in his "decompression," I've certainly come to believe that there's a real core of decency underpinning it all, and ultimately he's heading towards a positive place. Maybe not the one that many of us would choose, but I don't believe it's one that there's any reason to fear either.

Time will tell though.

I agree with this. Marty is a Freezoner.

We don't burn books, kill babies or smash apart families.

We do use our sophisticated, esoteric and minority psychotherapy
in an attempt to help others.

Very few negative results. We beat narconons putative 80%. :)
 

SchwimmelPuckel

Genuine Meatball
<snip> You're (Zinj) quick to tell Marty that he should "confess to the FBI"... <snip>
I was quicker... See my post above.

But I don't see this as 'throwing stones' really. Scientology is a pretty well organized criminal racket that has been running the scam for 50 years, while confounding the law and authorities.

We NEED the authorities and police in this!

And we need former scientologists who actually know about it to provide evidence. The WOG justice system is different from it's Scientology counterpart. They can't just barge in on a whim and put everybody on the RPF.. (Erh.. This is possibly why Hubbard thinks Scientologys justice system is better?)

Mr. Rathbun is such a former scientologist who knows about it! - And so is Mike Rinder..

Both will do as they please however.. I can only needle 'em some. (Yes, I am aware that their personal situation is likely much more complicated.)

That said.. I like what Mr. Rathbun is doing atm.. Like you, I have had to revise my perception that he simply wanted to oust Miscavige to continue Scientology himself.

He's quite good actually. I don't think anyone has put Miscavige in as tight a spot as Mr. Rathbun has done.

I think he's one of us after all.. I'm happy that he is.

:yes:
 

scooter

Gold Meritorious Patron
I agree with you, Schwimmy.

Marty's first post here was deliciously ambiguous but I got the impression he was no blind follower of Hubbard but had disentangled himself somewhat and was still trying to sort out truth from BS.

I also saw hints that, if conditions were right, he would consider some return to the Co$ but only to help dismantle the system in a similar manner to the way the former soviet empire was dismantled.

What I've sen then has convinced me that he had been responsible for the smarter decisions made by corporate scientology and he's currently playing chess with DM and convincingly whopping his butt.

I doubt neither he nor Rinder are currently able to fully state what their real intents are due to tactical constraints imposed on them by the nature of the game they're playing with DM.

I'm just watching it all with great amusement - these guys more than have DM's measure and I suspect the Dwarf is in self-imposed exile in the Carib and quaking in his tiny platform shoes.:D
 

Smurf

Gold Meritorious SP
Regardless what anyone here thinks of Marty, hiis blog HAS given incentive to people to speak out on the abuses going on, as we speak, in DM's empire.

This is one of my examples that breaks my heart:

THANKS FOR SPEAKING OUT … WE ARE SO HOPEFUL OUR DAUGHTERS WILL FIND THE PATH YOU HAVE FOUND & SOON. - nate and mona larson

http://nateandmonalarson.blogspot.com/

ps: your fees buy you is a huge credit card debt.. disconnection with your family..

http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2009/09/15/what-your-fees-buy-vii/#comments
 

nowout

Patron with Honors
Regardless what anyone here thinks of Marty, hiis blog HAS given incentive to people to speak out on the abuses going on, as we speak, in DM's empire.

This is one of my examples that breaks my heart:

THANKS FOR SPEAKING OUT … WE ARE SO HOPEFUL OUR DAUGHTERS WILL FIND THE PATH YOU HAVE FOUND & SOON. - nate and mona larson

http://nateandmonalarson.blogspot.com/

ps: your fees buy you is a huge credit card debt.. disconnection with your family..

http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2009/09/15/what-your-fees-buy-vii/#comments

Fully agree with Smurf on this and earlier posts.

There is time needed to decompress after coming out of that crazy mess, it took me several years until I started looking around on the Internets.

I don't believe that leadership of the cult is being looked for. There are many more qualified and sane (though heavily suppressed) executives who can run the place if allowed to come out of the Hole or SP Hall to do their jobs.

One major SP having taken over illegally in 87 has caused this entire mess, and that's the simplicity of it.
 

Veda

Sponsor
By 1974, L. Ron Hubbard had established a functioning 'destructive cult', complete with front groups, ("religion angle"-protected) fraud, a seemingly benign mental healing-coating, abusive ("crush") selling practices, progressively deeper levels of mind-manipulation and domination, quasi-slave labor including child labor, a mind-policing system including "Security Checking" for children, Red Chinese-style re-education programs, a private intelligence service that spied and engaged in covert attack, his own personal public relations representatives who were taught that the future of the survival of Mankind depended on Scientology, and Scientology depended on his "reputation" and "image" being protected, maintained, and enhanced. And then Miscavige came along and messed it up!
 
Tommy Davis may just be my favorite batshit crazy Scientologist. He's well on the road to being as fucknuts crazy as Heber Jentzsch or L. Ron Hubbard himself.
 

GreyWolf

Gold Meritorious Patron
I think this would be a good place for him to come. Even though I pulled a few dirty tricks while I was in, I have never felt judged here, although there might be some times when I have judged myself rather harshly. I truly hope that he has made it out.
 
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