MICHEL - CANCER AND SUICIDE ON SOLO NOTS

[HelluvaHoax!]

JB:
Do you have someone that you can just sit down and talk with?
Someone who is safe?maybe they could just run you on a prepcheck
something like "In auditing, has anything been suppressed?Here is a reference to find a prepcheck list:you don't need a meter. Just have the question answered until nothing more comes up.

I would imagine that the intent behind your advice is loving and sincere.

But, if I am honest about it, I find it---simply shocking---that you feel it is appropriate to hand out mail-order psychological counseling and advice to a person who is experiencing phenomenon that you are only guessing you understand the source and remedy of.

This slams home a bitter reminder of why I left Scientology.

Are you really prepared to accept the responsibility of what will happen if the party tries to follow your advice?

Are you not extremely concerned about the person's condition worsening, even to the point of becoming dangerous?

Do you really believe that "any auditing is better than no auditing?"

I am a very highly trained auditor and C/S, so perhaps it is not my ignorance that causes me to make this post.

At the very least, I think it is reckless to offer psychological techniques that purport to solve mental problems without attaching an explicitly stated DISCLAIMER at the beginning. And a WARNING too about the dangers.

In my opinion, the best advice anyone can give or get on repairing the mind damage from Scientology would be to follow nature. When you fall down and scrape yourself the body knows to form a protective scab. And without doing anything, the body knows how to heal itself---if you don't pick at it or try to handle it.

Same with the mind. Leave it alone. It will heal all by itself.

Don't prepcheck it and don't pick at it if you don't want scars.

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

whatever floats your boat.

perhaps when you learned how to be a highly trained muckety muck, you lost sight of the simplicity of just having people winning in life.

I'm not a product of Standard Tech,

coffee shop auditing, beach sessions, telephone, backstage while the show is going on, while I'm doing carpentry. with my dog sitting on my lap

in earlier times, tech was used, and it wasn't a big deal

when I was in high school, back probably before you were out of elementary school, I was giving impromptu speeches on the value of taking LSD

I guess I'm just an irresponsible fuck head

oh my tch tch

I think I'll go back to listening to Jimmy Buffett

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

whatever floats your boat.perhaps when you learned how to be a highly trained muckety muck, you lost sight of the simplicity of just having people winning in life.I'm not a product of Standard Tech, coffee shop auditing, beach sessions, telephone, backstage while the show is going on, while I'm doing carpentry. with my dog sitting on my lap in earlier times, tech was used, and it wasn't a big deal when I was in high school, back probably before you were out of elementary school, I was giving impromptu speeches on the value of taking LSD I guess I'm just an irresponsible fuck head oh my tch tch I think I'll go back to listening to Jimmy Buffett

Cool answer...

yeah, after sailing with the sea org to total freedom and watching the ship hit the iceberg of reality and sink down to the depths---I don't think "tech" floats my boat any more.

yeah, i like the simplicity of just having people winning in life, too.

yeah, i probably dropped acid and danced with you at the same live-in-the-park Jefferson Airplane concert, barefoot, bellbottoms and all psychedelically groovy and such...

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

Cool answer...

yeah, after sailing with the sea org to total freedom and watching the ship hit the iceberg of reality and sink down to the depths---I don't think "tech" floats my boat any more.

yeah, i like the simplicity of just having people winning in life, too.

yeah, i probably dropped acid and danced with you at the same live-in-the-park Jefferson Airplane concert, barefoot, bellbottoms and all psychedelically groovy and such...

I see we've found some common ground.

If we're talking about the Airplane in the Panhandle of Golden gate Park, you've got it.

Bellbottoms, bare feet definitely.

I used to be able to run barefooted over broken glass and puncture vines, with no issues. Tough callouses.

Saw the last Beatles concert at Candlestick with Skip Spence (who had just quit the Airplane to form Moby Grape), Pete Grant (he taught Jerry peddle steel), Geoff Levin and others.

I had been warned by my then future and now, current spouse, when I went to LA to go clear (which changed my life) to look out for the "Sea Org cog"-- that I must join the Sea Org and help Ron. I got it on OT 2. It lasted a couple of days. I just kept saying to myself, "You're crazy, this will pass. " and it did.

Unfortunately, I wasn't able to protect some friends. Charlie Rush and Laurie (Noonan Douglas) Engelhart have been in the SO for 37 years. I see Charlie every so often. He looks great. He's buff, and he glows. It still annoys the shit out of me that he's a slave and doesn't know it.

 

[Michel]

Dear Michel,

When you originally came on this board some days ago I warmly welcomed you feeling that you would be of real support, expert analysist and accurate data provider. The success and value of this thread demonstrates I was right.

Told you that as OT3 I would have technical questions to ask you and you suggested I would send you a private message to discuss the matter. In fact my postulate was that we could have this done openly for other to take advantage of it.

This post of yours give me that opportunity so here we go.

The fact is that in 2001 I did OT1 to 3 at Saint Hill UK and it produced the expected results. Free from overwhelm with an awerness assumed level of source that gave me the ability to as-is things or conditions when properly adressed.

Prior to this I did the CCRD in 1994 at CC Int and attested Clear from past life with the arbitrary since then cancelled to not do the grades.

In 2002 I left the church or to be more right was thrown out for challanging management with gross departures from original tenets or what I thought was really scientology. They had took all my money and I was heavily in depts and felt like dog shit. But I'm an artist and got back to play and that saved me as it always did in the past as I felt I could outcreate all that mess.

For years I kind of let things aside feeling in good shape casewise but last year things kicked in again after the trial in Paris in which I was to some extent involved with.

Than I got strongly restimulated to a point where heavy somatics were hitting me. So despite of all risks I thought to address it myself with what I knew from solo auditing but without a meter as mine was not operational anymore. So I started to run the clusters and BTs out as I used to do on OT3 with telepathic ARC.

It worked and I felt I could handle my case. Bit by bit I started to ask me questions like: How come I do have some more BTs when I thought they had all gone away on the level? Is it possible that some are outside of my body also? Soon I found out I could get in comm with them and without invalidating anything I could just address them and did what I found out later were a bit the commands used in Nots. Who are you, what are you, what do you want and so on...

Now when I read you or other very knowledgeable tech terminals here on ESMB lots are invalidating the tech and the reality of the state of clear and the BT and cluster thing. Some say one is mocking his case up. Some say also that there isn't a reactive mind or OT abilities and so on.

Honestly I don't know what to think really. Am I dellusional, am I crazy? Do things like entities really exis? You've been on OT7 so you should know. Why do I feel nobody seem to really state things truly?

One thing I found that made sense to me is in the case these BTs and Clusters do exist what do we have to do about them. Just running them out doesn't seem to be enough if one wishes to take full responsability that is the real state of OT.

But you've been sea org too and I'm sure apart from the bad things witnessed there you kind of got this concept that there is no greater feeling that to be fully on purpose along the 8th dynamics and it made sense. OT is about being operational and that isn't a state of being but has to do with what you can accomplish. And to my opinion there isn't anything comparable to a true competent sea org member and I did meet some and felt at times to be one of them. Nowhere else I had experienced such a powerfull feeling.

Well I don't know :confused2:

I think I said enough for now

All2UAll

Dear JB,

Thank you for joining us and sharing your personal experiences.

I understand your concerns and i saw that many posters gave you their viewpoint.

From my side i would recommend only this: What is true for you is true for you.

For some people Scientology works.
For some people Scientology doesn't work.
For some people Scientolgy worked to a certain point and then didn't anymore.

What is true for you is true for you.

If auditing out BTs without a meter works for you, great.

If BTs are real for you, great.

If freeing BTs makes you feel better, great!

Each person creates what works the best for himself.

Scientology isn't the only way. There are other phylosophies that work too.

The most important is that YOU feel good, happy, free and in love with your environment.

There are plenty of vias to reach that state.

Good luck my friend.

Michel.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

I see we've found some common ground.If we're talking about the Airplane in the Panhandle of Golden gate Park, you've got it.Bellbottoms, bare feet definitely.
I used to be able to run barefooted over broken glass and puncture vines, with no issues. Tough callouses. Saw the last Beatles concert at Candlestick with Skip Spence (who had just quit the Airplane to form Moby Grape, Pete Grant (he taught Jerry peddle steel), Geoff Levin and others.I had been warned by my then future and now, current spouse, when I went to LA to go clear (which changed my life) to look out for the "Sea Org cog"-- that I must join the Sea Org and help Ron. I got it on OT 2. It lasted a couple of days. I just kept saying to myself, "You're crazy, this will pass. " and it did. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to protect some friends. Charlie Rush and Laurie (Noonan Douglas) Engelhart have been in the SO for 37 years. I see Charlie every so often. He looks great. He's buff, and he glows. It still annoys the shit out of me that he's a slave and doesn't know it.

Somehow, seems like one moment I was listening to Grace Slick in the park. Then suddenly there were people disseminating Scientology and-- "Somebody spoke and I went into a dream...."

The next moment....

Jefferson Airplane suddenly changed into a DC-8 XenuPlane...

White Rabbit's "...go ask Alice" lyrics morphed into "Dear Alice" commands...AND--

"Somebody to Love" was being sung by a dedicated Church of Scientology choir with slightly altered lyrics....

don't you want somebody to reg
don't you need somebody to reg
wouldn't you love somebody to reg
you better find somebody to reg

 

[RogerB]

1. I fully agree with keeping things in the open.

2. Excellent!

3. We are immersed in life. We are life! Separation is an illusion. The useful EP of auditing OT-3 and above is 1) an awareness of other beings, 2) an awareness of telepathic communication, 3) an ability to bring about change for the beings contacted. "Auditing off" all other beings is not a valid EP although this is the Hubbardian EP given in the OT-3 pack. That EP turns out to be false as one discovers on the next OT levels.

4. Certainly. Beings locate themselves by consideration. The perception that another being is in or on your body or stuck to you is but another consideration. I see no reason why a being light-years away in MEST terms could not manifest on a pre-OT's body as pain, pressure, discomfort, etc.

5. So it is true for the beings saying so. Doesn't make it true for everyone else.

As for mocking up a reactive mind or drawing the conclusion that there is none, of course there is no reactive mind. That is an overused metaphor. I would ask this: Do people ever suffer physical injury or emotionally traumatic experience? And did that experience have some influence over their lives? I say yes. It happens. Do people have problems or upsets. Yes, some people do. Has anyone ever suffered a loss of a pet or loved one that then affected their life? Yes, I have known many.

So what's the big deal if someone says there is no reactive mind? It matters not to the overall big picture. "Reactive mind" is just a useful metaphor. If it works for you, use it, if not, abandon it.

6. Every seeker is looking for the truth. Having found scientology, as just one possibility, they then assign it the condition of "Truth." This can be a mistake as you are the most fundamental truth you will ever find. Let me give you a phrase that is quite useful in your quest: "As if."

That's right. "As if."

Here's an example, you were having success in auditing BTs and clusters off-meter then began to wonder if that had validity. I have found it best to test anyone's truth-finding procedure or philosophy by initiating the test on a provisional basis. Run OT-3, etc., as-if the hypothesis is true. See what comes of it. It it gets you closer to your Truth, continue. If it takes you further away, find another procedure, test another hypothesis, or move on to test another philosophy.

And what might your Truth be? I can't say for certain. But what has worked for me is a never-ending quest of finding myself. There is no cooler find. The only other thing that comes close is sharing of self with another.

I hope that helps.

Ted,

This above of yours is brilliant!

JB, did you see the write-ups on the "How Dangerous is New OT VII (S/NOTs)" Thread?
I did a write up on OT 3 and an alternative view of what is going on there and how to handle it. My write up is in five parts . . . and there is also a process used in Kn for handling spiritual connections on the thread.

Start here: http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=16109&page=14

At the end of the thread there is an example of handling spiritual Beings on a larger scale.

Rog

 

[JBTrendy]

Feel I'm close to EP now

Thanks for the prepcheck list and the Jefferson Airplane video.

Used to be my favorite band when I was a kid.

And thanks for your answer Michel.

I'm really having a ball with you all around here.

Sure the way is finding our own truth and what is working for us is the good thing to do.

Got very impressed with the discovery of Idenics and had a free intro session with Mike Goldstein 3 weeks ago over the phone.

I thought it was running deep and well.

Does one of you clever and knowledgeable people want to make a comment on that?

 

[Michel]

Thanks for the prepcheck list and the Jefferson Airplane video.

Used to be my favorite band when I was a kid.

And thanks for your answer Michel.

I'm really having a ball with you all around here.

Sure the way is finding our own truth and what is working for us is the good thing to do.

Got very impressed with the discovery of Idenics and had a free intro session with Mike Goldstein 3 weeks ago over the phone.

I thought it was running deep and well.

Does one of you clever and knowledgeable people want to make a comment on that?

Dear JB,

Keep looking for answers if you don't have them yet. Don't be affraid to try, try, try. Observe what is working for you. Eventually you will go through.

You are the "Source" of your own Universe. And you can create what ever you wish in it. You are an Artist! Do not forget.

Enjoy Your Life!

Michel.

 

[lkwdblds]

Congrats JB on getting the answers to your questions

Thanks for the prepcheck list and the Jefferson Airplane video.

Used to be my favorite band when I was a kid.

And thanks for your answer Michel.

I'm really having a ball with you all around here.

Sure the way is finding our own truth and what is working for us is the good thing to do.

Got very impressed with the discovery of Idenics and had a free intro session with Mike Goldstein 3 weeks ago over the phone.

I thought it was running deep and well.

Does one of you clever and knowledgeable people want to make a comment on that?

As I expected, when I attempted the first answer to your question, there was a series of brilliant answers. I thought Ted's was particularly brilliant and in typical fashion Roger embellished it with more references. Helluva and Carmelo though having some disagreement found some common ground and gave their own takes on it and Immortal too and as I expected, Michel summed up nicely. LIKE I SAY, INTERACTIVE PANEL DISCUSSION GROUPS ARE AN EXTREMELY EFFECTIVE MEANS OF EDUCATION WHEN YOU HAVE THE TYPE OF MINDS WHO ARE POSTING ON THIS THREAD. THEY CAN ALSO DEFINITELY LEAD ONE TO CASE GAIN.

As to a comment on Idenics. I knew Mike Goldstein a bit on the Apollo in 1973 and became a friend of his in the mid 70's when my brother joined staff at Mike's Denver Org. My future wife was also there as Denver staff, 22 years old when I was 35. Mike and I lost touch in 1983. He left the church then for reasons which he chronicals in his excellent 18 chapter book like series which he wrote about his activities, working for Diana Hubbard and with John Galusha, trying to get an excellent Book 1 project started in Denver and at Flag. For a story of the Mission Holders conferences in the '81 and '82 era, Mike's story can't be beat. I recently reconnected with him by phone and received one free Idenics session and paid for 3 more sessions. The sessions are well suited to be done over the phone. You can take up any topic which is bugging you. You handle incidents differently than in Dianetic auditing. You do not look back down your time track from present time but rather you recreate all the thoughts and emotions, etc which were in the incident at the time it occurred. It seems to me that the basic idea is to return to being in that incident and look at what was happening from the perspctive of being there again. It is a clean way to run out incidents. If you spot something and cause it to as-is, it seems to be gone. After session it is really hard to remember what the session was about or what you ran, whatever was there is simply not there anymore. I take that as a sign that something was as-ised. The rates he charges are not exhorbitant. I am satisfied with the service I received and would recommend Mike. That is about all I can say.
Lakey

 

[lkwdblds]

Perhaps the link to the 'Scientological Onion', and its accompanying links (in an earlier post) will help describe this strange situation. http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=381568&postcount=13

The Church of Scientology says, "Think for yourself." http://www.solitarytrees.net/pickets/mesa128.jpg

THE FIXED IDEA: Hitler, in his bunker, the last 10 days of WWII in Europe. Four years earlier he was on the verge of controlling all of Europe. He had done the hard part to win his war and had it essentially won. All he had to do were some relatively simple actions and cash in his victory. Instead, he made mistake after mistake. His certainty that the Slavic peoples of the East such as the Russians were subhuman and would not offer any serious resistance to his troops never wavered even as the Russian soldiers fought like Tigers against Hitler. His feeling that Western democracies were weak, feeble and incapable of major military action never wavered despite the brave performance of the U.S. troops. His feelings that International Jewry was responsible for all the ills of the world were not changed when he virtually killed off all of European Jewry and people still remained to fight him. His myth of Aryan supremacy had been thoroughly debunked. DID HITLER LEARN ANYTHING FROM ALL THIS. NO, HE HAD FIXED IDEAS. Though they all were totally debunked he could not see it. No matter how much he was proven wrong he was incapable of looking at things objectively and spotting his ideas as being false.

You have a fixed idea that no one ever in the history of Scientology, at any time since 1952 and in any location in the world actually practiced succcessfully a Code or a Creed written by LRH. You even give in your second post, a window for a such successful practice to occur which would be between 1952 and the mid-1960's. You challenge me to name a time and a place where I actually practiced the Code of Honor, I give you CCLA for 1970 through 1973. Rather than apologize and see that you were in error you tell me that I really did not practice the Code, that it was delusional and that you were brainwashed and at times you felt you were practicing Codes when in reality you were not. Therefore you conclude an A=A that my experience must be equivalent to yours. When things so obvious are pointed out to one and he is unable to change and reevaluate using the new data then that person has a major fixed idea. Its like talking to the wall, the most persuasive and logical arguments bounce off the Fixed Idea and most people in History who have had a Fixed Idea, take it to the grave with them, never being able to even possibly consider that they might possibly have been operating with incorrect data.

You believe that no person ever in Scientology, including me, at any time or any location ever actually was able to practice or apply any LRH Code or Creed even the Auditor's Code. Good, I got that! Enjoy this great wisdom you have and use it to enhance your life and teach it to others as truth even though it is just your personal opinion. Just know that when you teach it to others, there will always be at least one dissenter to this teaching of your FIXED IDEA and that is me. I'm done arguing with you, no matter what you write, I am done debating this topic with you.
Lakey

 

[lkwdblds]

What can you buy with a square pound?

Right. A square pound is about 2.25 square dollars.

Paul

JOKE: What can you buy for a square pound (or 2.25 square dolloars)? Answer, a square meal at Taco Bell or some other fast food venue.

What is with the usage of the word square for representing good and well rounded? A square meal is in common usage. How about that, a square meal actually means that a meal is well rounded. That does not make much sense.

It can be used in the term "a square deal" i.e. Roosevelt's New Deal promised people a square deal. I think the term square deal refers to dealing a deck of cards, keeping the cards tightly squared up so that seconds can not be dealt from lower down in the deck.

There is modern slang of a person being a "square". In 1950's parlance, it meant he was a nerd or out of step with trends of the day.

Any other usages of the word square you can think of?
Lakey

 

[nw2394]

Got very impressed with the discovery of Idenics and had a free intro session with Mike Goldstein 3 weeks ago over the phone.

I thought it was running deep and well.

Does one of you clever and knowledgeable people want to make a comment on that?

Heard generally good reports about it - never done any myself - though I've read a bit. My only negative thought is that I am not sure that it isn't a rather one dimensional approach to a case when there are a huge number of approaches and possible processes. But then, so is running NOTs for thousands of hours a one dimensional approach. As you might gather I've found it best to run what indicates to you at the time - and not to invalidate your own wins just because someone else didn't get them or thinks they are imaginary - what do they know - they aren't you.

Nick

 

[IMMORTAL]

As you might gather I've found it best to run what indicates to you at the time - and not to invalidate your own wins just because someone else didn't get them or thinks they are imaginary - what do they know - they aren't you.

Nick

^^^^^ LOVE IT! ^^^^^^

 

[Michel]

^^^^^ LOVE IT! ^^^^^^

^^^^^^^^^LOVE IT TOO!!!!^^^^^^^^^^

 

[RogerB]

Yep!

Yep!

Nick being brilliant, as usual.

Actually, what he wrote above is tremendously brilliant . . . . you're you: be true to yourself

Rog

 

[FoTi]

In 1995 I was staff in OSA EU and the havingness was very bad there. In fact the worse in all sea org org I've been to. Very bad food, a ridicoulous pay and after 3 weeks in a raw with none at all everyone was running out of tabacco and that was awfull.

The tone level of the crew really went very low and as a handling we had a study order with a special kind of issue from LRH that we were supposed to give back after usage and not to keep in any hat pack.

I don't remember it very well as when I red it I thought it was so bad that I didn't want to have anything to do with it and even doubted it could have been from LRH.

It stated that mest was a trap that would get in the way to reaching spiritual freedom and thus it was a good thing to do to people to liberate them from it by taking out from them everything they had in term of wealth and havingness and thus justifying the high prices for services and all sorts of donation they could make and so on. The staff also had to be poor and the less they could have on the first dynamic the more effective they would be on the third.

It was so cynical I couldn't believe it.

In fact this is the only time I saw this reference in the sea org and kind of rejected it but now that you speak about poverty this comes back to me. Still I routed out not long after thinking this wasn't a very survival place for me to be in as my havingness is normally pretty good though I'm not money oriented type of person at all.

I remember something like this. I was in Qual at ASHO one day, just kind of browsing through .... I think it was one of the red vols....don't recall which one and I ran across this HCOB...don't recall the title either, but LRH was talking about how the best thing you could do for someone was to take everything away from them....if they had a lot of money or mest...just take it all away from them. That really caught my attention. I thought it was really weird. I couldn't understand why it was okay for LRH to be rich and have a lot of money and things and yet he said the best thing you could do for someone was to take away everything they had. :confused2: I couldn't make sense out of it.

There were many times that I couldn't make sense out of what LRH wrote and I just figured that I hadn't got far enough up the Bridge yet or had enough training yet to understand what he was talking about, so I would just kind of slide over these things and continue on trying to get up the Bridge, where I thought I would eventually "Get it".

 

[JBTrendy]

Dear Roger

Ted,

This above of yours is brilliant!

JB, did you see the write-ups on the "How Dangerous is New OT VII (S/NOTs)" Thread?
I did a write up on OT 3 and an alternative view of what is going on there and how to handle it. My write up is in five parts . . . and there is also a process used in Kn for handling spiritual connections on the thread.

Start here: http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=16109&page=14

At the end of the thread there is an example of handling spiritual Beings on a larger scale.

Rog

God bless you my friend this was what I needed to read

Thank you

 

[JBTrendy]

Hi Foti

I remember something like this. I was in Qual at ASHO one day, just kind of browsing through .... I think it was one of the red vols....don't recall which one and I ran across this HCOB...don't recall the title either, but LRH was talking about how the best thing you could do for someone was to take everything away from them....if they had a lot of money or mest...just take it all away from them. That really caught my attention. I thought it was really weird. I couldn't understand why it was okay for LRH to be rich and have a lot of money and things and yet he said the best thing you could do for someone was to take away everything they had. :confused2: I couldn't make sense out of it.

There were many times that I couldn't make sense out of what LRH wrote and I just figured that I hadn't got far enough up the Bridge yet or had enough training yet to understand what he was talking about, so I would just kind of slide over these things and continue on trying to get up the Bridge, where I thought I would eventually "Get it".

You're damn right. I think one has to evaluate data. Some are senior to others. It's also a matter of context.

For instance Lord Jesus once saw a reach man and told him to abondon all he possessed to follow him as the poors are rich is the realm of god or something like that. Than a lot of christians took it for an absolute law and made vow of poverty. Some christian monks are like this. But my viepoint is that Jesus was addressing this specific terminal as he was probably totally trapped in the mest universe and so forth. Didn't mean this was a thing that anyone had to do in order to be saved.

In fact they pulled this reference in osa eu to handle the crew who was dramatizing low havingness at that time. To some extent it worked. To be honest there were instances when as a sea org member I felt I had incredible havingness even with a law pay. This is when I was doing good and that the food, berthing, and clothes were acceptable though.

What is damaging and I follow you on this is when you see the tones of money spent on mest and that upper management have when you work your ass off down the line and your minimum basics aren't cared for.

The worse being when noone of your team mates go up the bridge. The no staff auditing is the most terrible situation there is as far as staff morale is concerned to my viewpoint. Meaning no hope of improvement. No help. And this was almost everywhere the case on SO bases as I could witness it apart maybe from AOs but I was never staff there.

 

[JBTrendy]

As I expected, when I attempted the first answer to your question, there was a series of brilliant answers. I thought Ted's was particularly brilliant and in typical fashion Roger embellished it with more references. Helluva and Carmelo though having some disagreement found some common ground and gave their own takes on it and Immortal too and as I expected, Michel summed up nicely. LIKE I SAY, INTERACTIVE PANEL DISCUSSION GROUPS ARE AN EXTREMELY EFFECTIVE MEANS OF EDUCATION WHEN YOU HAVE THE TYPE OF MINDS WHO ARE POSTING ON THIS THREAD. THEY CAN ALSO DEFINITELY LEAD ONE TO CASE GAIN.

As to a comment on Idenics. I knew Mike Goldstein a bit on the Apollo in 1973 and became a friend of his in the mid 70's when my brother joined staff at Mike's Denver Org. My future wife was also there as Denver staff, 22 years old when I was 35. Mike and I lost touch in 1983. He left the church then for reasons which he chronicals in his excellent 18 chapter book like series which he wrote about his activities, working for Diana Hubbard and with John Galusha, trying to get an excellent Book 1 project started in Denver and at Flag. For a story of the Mission Holders conferences in the '81 and '82 era, Mike's story can't be beat. I recently reconnected with him by phone and received one free Idenics session and paid for 3 more sessions. The sessions are well suited to be done over the phone. You can take up any topic which is bugging you. You handle incidents differently than in Dianetic auditing. You do not look back down your time track from present time but rather you recreate all the thoughts and emotions, etc which were in the incident at the time it occurred. It seems to me that the basic idea is to return to being in that incident and look at what was happening from the perspctive of being there again. It is a clean way to run out incidents. If you spot something and cause it to as-is, it seems to be gone. After session it is really hard to remember what the session was about or what you ran, whatever was there is simply not there anymore. I take that as a sign that something was as-ised. The rates he charges are not exhorbitant. I am satisfied with the service I received and would recommend Mike. That is about all I can say.
Lakey

I can't state how grateful and honored I am to have such incredible terminals as you all taking the time and care to help sorting things out.

In fact the quality and level of data exchanged on this thread are amazing. And I see how everyone seem to gain out of this. It's an ongoing creative process that to my viewpoint is really making a difference. This is an incredible adventure we are experiencing here and now. I think that this is an history in the making moment of great magnitude that is currently happening. :yes

As far as Idenics is concerned I red all about it except the book and had a very good exchange with Mike over the phone. I'm glad of what you said about it as I thought this tech has a real value that shouldn't be underestimated. Wasn't John Galusha the best auditor of us all?