MICHEL - CANCER AND SUICIDE ON SOLO NOTS

Reasonable

Silver Meritorious Patron
There have been loose, amateur surveys that give a fair indication that there is a need for such a study -

"Is there a lower mortality rate (age of death) amongst Scientologists with cancer?"

There are some indications that the first question might achieve a "yes". There are strong indications that the second question would achieve a "yes",


The wild speculation is over the WHY, not whether or not more Scientologists die of cancer
.

I was asking for actual data. Of course there are questions about cancer rates, but no facts at all. Indications are not statistics or facts.

In order for you to ask WHY more Scientologists die of cancer you first must prove that more Scientologists do die of cancer. And the fact is no one has proven this.
 
G

Gottabrain

Guest
I was asking for actual data. Of course there are questions about cancer rates, but no facts at all. Indications are not statistics or facts.

In order for you to ask WHY more Scientologists die of cancer you first must prove that more Scientologists do die of cancer. And the fact is no one has proven this.

That's what I just said. :confused2:
 

Helena Handbasket

Gold Meritorious Patron
I know this sounds unscientific in the EXTREME, but cancer and other diseases have been linked with chronic unhappiness (due to an inhibiting effect on the immune system).

What does that say about life within Scientology?

And the emphasis on production means people are pushed to do more now, with many smoking cigarettes or whatever to keep them going.

Just my .02.

Helena
 

Hatshepsut

Crusader
I actually have had to trace down some cumulative clusters relating to some extremely charged matter of occult abuse. The stickiness of some of it made it hard.. At the core of it was 'me' and what had happened to me in sort of a flushing incident into physicality through a hole or portal over very magical Persian Ionia... The amount of unmocking and trauma actually DID seem to cause me to generate frantically. I came down with an extreme phobia of breast cancer at this point. This is actually the third time I came down with these types of bizarre feelings related to disturbing sleeping 'issues' over a 30 yr period. I have some simple meditation that I do to disarm this when I have triggered this in my space, but it is always scares me..

In the past I have felt sometimes that the questions on lists may be linking together too many 'free associations'... too much of it, if it goes on too long. We triggered things beneath our awareness as we spat out that which WAS available.. I feel we are sometimes, by unnecessary 'digging around', waking up sleeping evolutionary machinery which is just doing it's job on automatic and unconsiously. I know this smacks of 'animism'. It is. :p

The purpose was originally to clear out and away from this stuff. To separate out and rehab I guess. We weren't prepared to go on archaeological 'digs'.
 
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Johnd

Patron with Honors
I was asking for actual data. Of course there are questions about cancer rates, but no facts at all. Indications are not statistics or facts.

In order for you to ask WHY more Scientologists die of cancer you first must prove that more Scientologists do die of cancer. And the fact is no one has proven this.

Hi reasonable.

Not really. You can speculate about and discuss why scns you knew died of cancer when timely treatment might have saved them.

Of course there are plenty of people other than scns who don't get treatment in time. That doesn't excuse scientologists though.

Hubbard claimed at times that most illness was psychosomatic. (He claimed different things at different times.) In one case , as I recall, in the Expanded Dianetics series Hubbard claimed that xdn had a 100% success rate in curing a certain kind of cyst. (Too lazy to look this up right now.) Scns were and are encouraged to put a lot of faith in the 'tech.' Hubbard also often showed contempt for the medical profession apart from psychiatry in his tapes.

Might be that an aversion to doctors was promoted by Hubbard because remissions and recoveries often happen naturally (like 'cognitions' and euphoric episodes) and he wanted to take credit for the fact.

Of course one can make a case for medical incompetence--there seems to be plenty of it--but as a generality, it's a big lie. They're not the quacks, hubbard was. Medical professionals can help you and can save your life.

john
 

Adam7986

Declared SP
Might be that an aversion to doctors was promoted by Hubbard because remissions and recoveries often happen naturally (like 'cognitions' and euphoric episodes) and he wanted to take credit for the fact.

I tend to agree with this.
 

Helena Handbasket

Gold Meritorious Patron
Is there really increased mortality among Scientologists? Want to do a study but can't get the funding? Here's an idea.

Go to the church and SAY you have the funding, and want to do a study. If they slam the door in your face (MWH phenomena), the answer's YES.

Helena
 

Adam7986

Declared SP
Is there really increased mortality among Scientologists? Want to do a study but can't get the funding? Here's an idea.

Go to the church and SAY you have the funding, and want to do a study. If they slam the door in your face (MWH phenomena), the answer's YES.

Helena

Unfortunately I don't lend the idea of a missed withhold any credibility. People have been known to feel guilt even when they weren't guilty of something. Some people never feel guilty about things that they did that were wrong.

The church slamming the door in your face doesn't mean the answer is yes. It means they don't want to deal with you.

Speaking from personal experience, cancer is a death sentence in Scientology. I have never met a devoted Scientologist who was a "cancer survivor". On the contrary, since expanding my horizons and speaking to people who were not involved in the church, I found many cancer survivors.
 

Demented LRH

Patron Meritorious
Unfortunately I don't lend the idea of a missed withhold any credibility. People have been known to feel guilt even when they weren't guilty of something. Some people never feel guilty about things that they did that were wrong.
That would be me.:happydance:

My withholds never made me feel guilty of anything. I guess, Hubbard's Tech was useless in my case.
 

La La Lou Lou

Crusader
BTW, improper sleep has been associated with increased cancer. So i can easily see how SO members, at least, might have more cancer.

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2008/01/02/sleep-in-darkness.aspx

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2008/01/02/breast-cancer-risk.aspx

Very interesting, sleep hygiene is a very important subject. I know that I am much happier and healthier when I get enough sleep and blacking out my windows at night, and enjoying the sun in the day has made a huge difference. I was put on Melatonin for a while, it did certainly help my Chronic Fatigue, it is not as bad as it was. It hasn't cured it, but it is much less devastating.
 

Enthetan

Master of Disaster
Very interesting, sleep hygiene is a very important subject. I know that I am much happier and healthier when I get enough sleep and blacking out my windows at night, and enjoying the sun in the day has made a huge difference. I was put on Melatonin for a while, it did certainly help my Chronic Fatigue, it is not as bad as it was. It hasn't cured it, but it is much less devastating.

Me too. Back when I was in the SO, I was a zombie most of the time from chronic lack of sleep, and very irritable.
 

AnonyMary

Formerly Fooled - Finally Free
On Facebook, there is a thread about Karen Black dying of Cancer, that she smoked... but I wanted to set the record straight about her type of cancer... and feel it's fitting for this thread.

She died of a very rare form of cancer..overall incidence of 6 cases per 1 million individuals. The average age at time of diagnosis of ampullary carcinoma is 60–70 years. [..] The form of cancer Karen Black died from, ampullary cancer, is very rare. Also known as ampullary carcinoma, the cancer forms in an opening of the small intestine called the ampulla of Vater. Pancreatic and bile ducts release secretions into the intestines via the ampulla of Vater. An ampullary cancer blocking this flow of secretions leads to jaundice and bile accumulating in the bloodstream.

The standard treatment for ampullary cancer is known as the Whipple procedure, an operation in which part of the pancreas and the small intestine is removed. Under the most favorable circumstances, an ampullary cancer patient can live for up to five years.

According to the University of Rochester Medical Center, "Ampullary cancer is such a rare condition that experts aren't sure what steps, if any, can be taken to prevent it. It does appear to be more common among men than women." [..] http://www.isciencetimes.com/articl...-ampullary-cancer-easy-rider-actress-dead.htm {..] Carcinoma of the ampulla of Vater tends to manifest early due to biliary outflow obstruction, as opposed to pancreatic neoplasms that often are advanced at the time of diagnosis.

Surgical resection with curative intent is the only option for long-term survival. Surgical, endoscopic, or radiologic biliary decompression; relief of gastric outlet obstruction; and adequate pain control may improve the quality of life but do not affect overall survival rate.[..]
http://www.isciencetimes.com/articles/5832/20130809/karen-black-ampullary-cancer-easy-rider-actress-dead.htm

...There is NO known cause of this cancer.

Another OT who posted on ESMB and Alt.religion.scientology anonymously as Alex died of the same type of cancer but the tumor started in the pancreas. It was quick death... maybe within 1 year because it was not caught early. Hubbard also had chronic pancreatitis. This thread explains much about the correlation of SOLO NOTS OT's and cancer.

MICHEL - CANCER AND SUICIDE ON SOLO NOTS
 

Type4_PTS

Diamond Invictus SP
This is for the newbies....



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dchoiceisalwaysrs

Gold Meritorious Patron
Very interesting stats

4300 out of 5300 = 81% who started solo nots not fully applying the 'tek' . Doesn't sound too positive about what the bridge up to that point does for an individual. Good god, surely having managed to navigate all the tremendous hurdles on the way would in itself, make skilled marathon runners of them all. Maybe that is the meaning of 'making the able more able". Those who have successfully made it beyond OTVII are the most able or determined to start with and just enhanced their inherent capacity by exercising it while being challenged to make it go right and overcoming 'the most pot-holed bridge in the universe'

Step right up folks, we promise you a journey to see the emporer's clothes. But you have agree to give your life and your savings so you won't tell anyone what you discover along the way.
 
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