ESMB has entered archive mode. All posts and threads that were available to the general public are still readable. The board is still searchable. 

Thank you all for your participation and readership over the last 12 years.

If you want to join in the conversation, please join the new ESMB Redux at


Discussion in 'Evaluating and Criticising Scientology' started by Michel, Mar 10, 2010.

  1. MacKenzie

    MacKenzie Patron with Honors

    Mr. Thetan,

    I think you are spot on. Here is an Interview with a biochemist and his take on this.

    He also tells the story of how he cured his prostate cancer.

    Biochemist Dennis Hill interview with Natalie Mazurek part1

    Biochemist Dennis Hill interview with Natalie Mazurek part2

  2. MacKenzie

    MacKenzie Patron with Honors

    Hi Michel,

    Thank you again for your wisdom and courage.

    Anyone can communicate with the one god.

    You don't need a go between or someone to represent you.

  3. DagwoodGum

    DagwoodGum Squirreling Dervish

    "We should all write that Knowledge Report so as many people in and out know the truth.
    Isn't that what we are trying to accomplish."

    The ESMB is one big Knowledge Report.
  4. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    Write a KR, addressed to who?

    If they write it to org HCO (or even to Miscavige), and it's seen to be blaming tech terminals for cancer, the KR writer is just going to be assigned to a hundred hours of sec checking.

    The only effective places to put that KR, would be either here (or other ex-Scn sites), or with the reporters at the Tampa Bay Tribune who have been doing the Truth Rundown series
  5. ThetanExterior

    ThetanExterior Gold Meritorious Patron

    Voodoo likes this.
  6. MacKenzie

    MacKenzie Patron with Honors

    Send them to the appropriate state and government agencies, the local county sheriff, the BBB, Consumer Reports, the various non-denominational religious groups the cult has used, the appropriate UN agencies, the media, buy some billboards . . . Just don't be shy.

    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018
  7. AnonyMary

    AnonyMary Formerly Fooled - Finally Free

    So they can be 'handled as you once treated these people when you were an Ethics Officer?

    Its real easy to start barking 'what to do's' once one takes the step to start speaking up... but if you were smart, you would focus on recovery and redemption from the past by reading all you can that has been written by exes on the internet. We were part of a madman's game, the hard part is realizing that we made the choices we made and every choice has a natural consequence. Michel's thread was important not only for us but for him. Leaving Scientology is a process, an evolution out not unlike peeling layers off an onion. Better to peel away than bark know-best advice, just saying.
  8. MacKenzie

    MacKenzie Patron with Honors


    Please see my PM.

    I can neither verify or refute the accusation at the above link. I am sure I am guilty of much worse after a 20 plus year career in Scientology, much of it on staff.

    If by my past actions, in or out of the cult, I have harmed anyone here please let me know. I give permission to post anything you want about me publicly if based on your personal interaction with me.

    If hearsay, it is bad manners and nothing more than a not so veiled personal attack.

    Bruce MacKenzie
  9. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    Here's part of a FB post made by Karen#1 several years ago. I'm going to use it to bump this thread as there's some newbies here who haven't yet seen it:

    AnonyMary likes this.
  10. Belle

    Belle New Member

  11. Helena Handbasket

    Helena Handbasket Gold Meritorious Patron

    (Deleted due to technical problem and reposted)
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2019
  12. Helena Handbasket

    Helena Handbasket Gold Meritorious Patron

    (Deleted due to technical problem and reposted)
  13. Helena Handbasket

    Helena Handbasket Gold Meritorious Patron

    (Note: I just discovered this thread in Aug 2019).

    One thing I did, years ago, was get two phone numbers, one connected to an answering machine (without a phone) for the C of S and one for everything else (including my roommate). That way, if a reg called, I could not answer. This was important at the time because I had difficulty resisting the urge to answer calls from the C of S -- but if I couldn't, I wouldn't.

    Also (as I've said before) when I moved I forwarded my mail to a "box" in the neighborhood I was moving from, and gave my new real address to everyone except the C of S. In a while, there was no more communication at all from them!

    And while I'm at it, I never gave them a credit card number. Enough said about that.

    Enthetan likes this.
  14. Helena Handbasket

    Helena Handbasket Gold Meritorious Patron

    A read on the meter (fall, etc.) is reading on the attempt to NOT THINK OF SOMETHING. If you have a pain in your zorch (;)) it will read even if you don't have your cans on your zorch.

    There were times (before I left the C of S) when I didn't want something to read -- because then we'd be sidetracked on some minor issue that would take me away from what I was wanting to handle (no to mention burn up my paid auditing hours). So I thought "YES!!!" inside my head while saying "no". Worked every time.

    Last edited: Aug 4, 2019
  15. Helena Handbasket

    Helena Handbasket Gold Meritorious Patron

    Just what is cancer anyway? Cancer is abnormal cell growth, but what is it exactly? Defining cancer is like asking an electrical engineer what voltage is -- you'll probably get an answer such as "it's like pressure" but that's really not a definition.

    The RogerB quotes above give some idea of how cancer forms. If not enough energy is available to the cell, it goes haywire.

    How come there's so many types of cancer? The "types" of cancer are just a matter of what part of the body succumbs first. If the disease progresses, other parts become cancerous as well. This is called "metastasizing", as if cancer cells ooze out some sort of substance that causes more cancer. But then how does the first cancer form? The additional cancer must be the result of the original difficulty, not the result of cancer "spreading" from somewhere else. The second (third, etc.) cancers to form just happened to develop more slowly, that's all.

    Let's say, for the sake of argument, that cells have to be "fed" to remain healthy -- let "feeding" be a proxy for all the cells' needs. If not fed properly, it will become sick. If I had cancer, I would never consent to radiation and chemo, because that's just additional poisoning to the cells. (I might condone surgery, but only for the actively cancerous part [a lumpectomy] without extracting lots of surrounding healthy tissue "just to make sure no cancer cells are left".)

    Having said all that, how come so many SOLO NOTs auditors are getting cancer? First of all, there have been no scientific studies proving that (although I'm not saying it isn't so).

    Second, if auditing makes it less likely that someone will have other diseases and accidents, then of course the proportion of those getting cancer will go up (particularly as pre-OTs get to "cancer age"). If you live longer, as many people do these days, you are more likely to die from a degenerative disease. I'm not defending the church here; I'm just saying the hard data doesn't exist.

    But there ARE a lot of SOLO NOTs auditors getting cancer. Call that anecdotal if you will, but there they are.

    SOLO NOTs consists of getting rid of BTs. There is no distinction between "good BTs" and "bad BTs"; just get rid of them all (and let God sort them out? ;)). But I've read things that suggest there are "good BTs" that actually help the body, and if you strip them all away, it's like running a construction site with no workers -- nothing can get done. (Perhaps "good BTs" keep the immune system going?) Overdoing it on blowing BTs could be why so many pre-OTs get cancer.

    Also, I fully agree that the C of S can be a stressful place, and that that can increase susceptibility to disease. If there's an obvious threat in your environment, and you fight wholeheartedly against it, the fight (and the stress) is soon over (even if you lose). But if you're torn between fight and flight (or staying and blowing) the stress just continues to build up.

    A more sinister theory is that a mechanism within the body deliberately triggers cancer when people go up the bridge -- to discourage others from doing the same, or to destroy someone before they become strong enough to challenge the powers-that-be.

    I myself have a few conditions that I worry could be pre-cancerous. I'm trying to deal with them medically.

    Last edited: Aug 4, 2019
  16. Helena Handbasket

    Helena Handbasket Gold Meritorious Patron

    Having said all of that above, I'm adding one more thing to this "Cancer And Suicide" thread.

    I just learned that someone -- well known in the Freezone in Europe -- has advanced cancer and is going to an assisted suicide facility to end cycle. The cancer is very painful and not curable, and in my opinion, assisted suicide in this case is very justified.

    I'm not going to name names, but this is someone who's name anyone in the area would recognize.

    I wish them the best for their next lifetime.

  17. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    I read a remarkable book last month by Anita Moorjani entitled Dying To Be Me. Anita had cancer, and after several years got to the point where the doctors told her family she wouldn't make it through the night as her organs were shutting down. She was in a coma for 30 hours, had an NDE, and left the hospital weeks later (six if I remember correctly) cancer free.,aps,232&sr=8-1
    MacKenzie and Enthetan like this.
  18. dchoiceisalwaysrs

    dchoiceisalwaysrs Gold Meritorious Patron

    Tanchi, Type4_PTS and Emma like this.
  19. He-man

    He-man Hero extraordinary

    Type4_PTS likes this.