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Mike "I'm All About the Crimes" Rinder

Type4_PTS

Diamond Invictus SP
My oh my. ESMB is active again! And only 4 days left to say everything you ever wanted to say on here to be fossilized in history.

To bad all I hear is OSA OSA OSA. The dead agent chant of the anti-scientologist.

We need anon back to put some fun in it! Those were the days.
Yes, it IS too bad.

I was hoping you'd also hear the questions addressed to you, like this one:

Why would someone who employs reason spew out an avalanche of lies and logical fallacies, and refuse to answer so many good questions in response to his postings?

Like Alanzo though, you apparently aren't here to engage in an honest discussion.
 

lotus

stubborn rebel sheep!
Post edit:

Contained a demand to people to stay away of doxxing and don't play Alanzo's game.

Related post have been wiped.
 
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Shadyaf

Justice for victims
My oh my. ESMB is active again! And only 4 days left to say everything you ever wanted to say on here to be fossilized in history.

To bad all I hear is OSA OSA OSA. The dead agent chant of the anti-scientologist.

We need anon back to put some fun in it! Those were the days.
Wow. Peek-a-boo! :buzzin:
 

He-man

Hero extraordinary
My oh my. ESMB is active again! And only 4 days left to say everything you ever wanted to say on here to be fossilized in history.

To bad all I hear is OSA OSA OSA. The dead agent chant of the anti-scientologist.

We need anon back to put some fun in it! Those were the days.
Whale, once you put Alanzo and OE on ignore it's pretty quiet.

:tumbleweed:

I guess putting me and Type4 on ignore as well would make it go mute.

:lol:
 

Caroline

Patron Meritorious
Seems implausible to me that Mike Rinder et al would be a ploy, due to the negative exposure, with its coherent risks for the Church of Scientology, that they have generated.

Seems to me that it's the same as most leaving the "church", ie Debbie Cook, Aaron Saxton, Marty Rathburn comes to mind, He wants to get out of it without getting caught in the net himself.
Implausibility can be an effective cloaking device. What's under the cloak is the co-conspirators history of infiltrating government agencies, covering up crimes, obstructing justice in wrongful death case(s), witness tampering, running intell around the world, taking over CAN, LMT, etc.

The Scientologists' history of risky business proves that risk doesn't back them off from executing such schemes. "Flair" and "insouciance" are their intelligence personnel's "beingnesses."

Think of the risk that the Child Victims Act poses, and how the Scientologists would want to get ahead of that for example. Would they be any less insouciant?

More than four hundred Scientologists on the Sea Org Flag Ship were able to maintain the shore story or lie in multiple countries that they were all a Panamanian business management company. The GO came very close to getting away with a massive espionage operation involving hundreds of people against the US Government. Chris Owen mentioned this today.

Today Chris Owen said:
The GO’s campaign has been described as the largest episode of domestic espionage in the history of the US government. Yet, remarkably, declassified government documents and seized GO files show that the government knew of the campaign as far back as 1973 but did nothing about it. Equally remarkably, they also show that the GO might have got away with it even after its operatives had been caught by the FBI in 1976, had it not been for an entirely coincidental intervention by US Customs at a critical moment.
https://tonyortega.org/2019/09/25/h...y-got-away-with-its-1970s-espionage-campaign/

Hubbard said "any attention is better than no attention." (Ref. COHA, for example) Negative exposure is easily converted in the public eye, and the Scientologists have the means and motive to convert it, on their own time and using Hubbard's playbook. Rinder says he's now wanting to change the public perception about Scientology. That purpose aligns with what I'm talking about.

According to current marketing psychology, even the repetitive use of video footage of Hubbard's dirty teeth and unflattering appearance throughout the series would have purpose. (Ref. The Psychology of Influence: Theory, Research and Practice by Joop Van Der Pligt and Michael Vliek)

There are fairly glaring parallels between the original Loyalist Op, and the current group of people who identify as "Independents." Here's an open letter I wrote to Amy Scobee and the "Loyalist Think Tankers":
On August 7 2009 I said:
Dear Amy,
In writing you, I am assuming that you are, as Scientology outed you, the “Peacock” in Freedom. I want to thank you then for talking to the Saint Petersburg Times about your experiences and for speaking out against the violence at Int.

Long term traumatization in that environment, which is so devoid of reason but so dominated by fear, is a phenomenon that is coming into society’s consciousness, so thanks also to you and the other ex-staff for adding to that knowledge. Your experience is painful, my heart goes out to you, and I wish you a full, fun and fast recovery. And I pray that the end is near for Miscavige’s tyranny.

I’m also assuming that to some extent at least you act in concert with the other contributors to http://www.scientology-cult.com who describe themselves as:
http://www.scientology-cult.com/who-we-are.html said:
a think tank of loyal Scientologists formed around the recognition that Scientology’s problems trace directly to the hidden corruption and criminality of David Miscavige, the self-appointed dictator who subverted Scientology.

Our purpose is to provide transparency to all sides and thereby bring Scientology out of its own Dark Age and into present time where it belongs.
Non-violent, non-corporate and non-commercial, our only pledge is to observe and state what we have observed, do what we can to help and support those abused by Miscavige and bring about a reformation of the subject to its real purpose -- giving people greater freedom in their lives.
http://www.scientology-cult.com/who-we-are.html
My conclusion is that Miscavige didn’t subvert Scientology, but rather prolonged Scientology as it was then being directed. The change from the Hubbard regime to the Miscavige regime was seamless, and virtually all of us who were Scientologists at the time helped make it and accept it as seamless.

Scientology’s “enemies,” the “Suppressive Persons” that the leaders made targets, remained the same from regime to regime, and their treatment and handling remained the same. Of course Miscavige, not eliminating or altering the SP doctrine but enforcing it according to his command intention, manufactured ever more SPs and enemies to treat and handle as enemies as policy directed.

Scientology’s SP enemies, if honestly confronted, are actually the organization’s or religion’s victims. The bigger an enemy someone was considered by Miscavige, and Hubbard, the greater the victimization. “Enemies” in Scientology, as you know, are people that the leader considers threaten his operations, that is who, in his evaluation, put Scientology at risk, or could keep it from working.

The leader’s operations, that is, Scientology, include, of course, victimizing these “enemies.” Victimization is the only treatment and handling Miscavige, Hubbard, and the SP doctrine permitted. Scientologists, no matter where they were in the organization, adhered to the doctrine and supported the treatment and handling the head directed or intended.

Scientologists accepted their own victimizing by Scientology and Scientologists in order to support Scientology’s and Scientologists’ victimizing of others, the people the leader says are putting them at risk. All of Miscavige’s personal, physical, violent victimization of his Sea Org underlings was accepted, and no one put a stop to it, in order to continue to support Scientology’s war on these enemies.

Accepting of their victimization includes Scientologists denial of being a victim at all. Hubbard, of course, to keep Scientologists from objecting to his victimizing them even defined “Scientologist” to be “one who is not a victim.” Miscavige simply continued Hubbard’s definition, and used it to heap more abuse on his Scientologist victims. You were victimized.

L Ron Hubbard said:
tv-5-175.gif
I was victimized inside, but I am not constrained by Hubbard’s and Miscavige’s sociopathic definitions, attitudes, policies and practices relating to victims and victimization. I was a victim inside Scientology, and I’ve been a victim since Miscavige found out I’d left his control. I oppose Scientology and Scientologists because they victimize me, my husband, my daughter, friends and good people all over the world, pursuant to their Suppressive Person doctrine. I’m also opposed to Scientology and Scientologists because they victimize Scientologists. Every lie Hubbard ever told victimizes Scientologists. I will never be a Scientologist.

Based on the above, I have some questions that are important to me, for you, and the other people speaking up now, who apparently are still Scientologists and want to keep Scientology working but want to get rid of Miscavige:

1. Why should I support you?

2. Why should any of Scientology’s victims support you?

3. More importantly, why should we not oppose you?

[Posted to OCMB]
 

Dave95694

Silly Human
Dave - did you read what Roger B had to say about Alanzo / Allen T Stanfield? He knows who Alanzo is. Do you?

"Actually, I had to run for cover the instant I spotted I was getting sucked into the vortex of Alanzo spinning around inside his head going nowhere but down baby, down . . . . Man, that was a trip to nowhere!
You are right Hoaxy, it is an exercise in masochism to be following that Dude into the void of nuttiness he thinks is sanity!"


I've known Alanzo/Allen for years.

While RogerB is a great source for stories about the old days, he is also known for judging people for emotional reasons rather than logical. If he can't follow Alanzos reasoning, perhaps it is because he spent too much time in the vortex of another failed cult after his scientology experiences. I suspect he is still stuck in the Kn mindset, which was a sort of elitist version of scientology catering to corporate mucks and muckity mucks.

It followed the scientology trajectory from boom to irrelevance, and is now just a few members. It was never the size of scientology although its founder, Alan Walter, was the person who built up scientology in the US to the size it was, until Hubbard betrayed him. I think he was the biggest mission holder on the planet at one time.

They were all about getting/being prosperous and called their body thetans "spiritual team mates". (And used them to try to get rich!)

They believe anything "unwanted" is external abuse. Nice logical sounding "logic", but it doesn't scale well.

Here's Rogers website: http://knowledgism-practice-group.org

And Knowledgisms,

https://knowledgism.com/

"If you want to increase your prosperity or income, eradicate your unknowns and increase your knowledge." Alan C Walter, 10 Jan 1997

You have read all of Alan Walter's stuff here I hope? Or are you just doing a poor imitation of an uninformed troll.
 

Veda

Sponsor
Implausibility can be an effective cloaking device. What's under the cloak is the co-conspirators history of infiltrating government agencies, covering up crimes, obstructing justice in wrongful death case(s), witness tampering, running intell around the world, taking over CAN, LMT, etc.

The Scientologists' history of risky business proves that risk doesn't back them off from executing such schemes. "Flair" and "insouciance" are their intelligence personnel's "beingnesses."

Think of the risk that the Child Victims Act poses, and how the Scientologists would want to get ahead of that for example. Would they be any less insouciant?

More than four hundred Scientologists on the Sea Org Flag Ship were able to maintain the shore story or lie in multiple countries that they were all a Panamanian business management company. The GO came very close to getting away with a massive espionage operation involving hundreds of people against the US Government. Chris Owen mentioned this today.



Hubbard said "any attention is better than no attention." (Ref. COHA, for example) Negative exposure is easily converted in the public eye, and the Scientologists have the means and motive to convert it, on their own time and using Hubbard's playbook. Rinder says he's now wanting to change the public perception about Scientology. That purpose aligns with what I'm talking about.

According to current marketing psychology, even the repetitive use of video footage of Hubbard's dirty teeth and unflattering appearance throughout the series would have purpose. (Ref. The Psychology of Influence: Theory, Research and Practice by Joop Van Der Pligt and Michael Vliek)

There are fairly glaring parallels between the original Loyalist Op, and the current group of people who identify as "Independents." Here's an open letter I wrote to Amy Scobee and the "Loyalist Think Tankers":

Don't think anyone in question identifies as "Independents."

That was years ago.

It's understandable that Gerry would have issues with Rinder.

IMO, Alanzo is using both you and Gerry, which I think is a shame, as both of you are heroes and much respected and loved.
 

UTR

Patron
Out Ethics posted the "L&N" list three times in a row, and then the bankruptcy info 5 times in a row. In this thread.

I mean, I might be new here, but I'm pretty sure this is a ridiculous amount of spam.

And I'm not counting the duplicate posts I've seen across multiple threads.
 

Dave95694

Silly Human
Out Ethics posted the "L&N" list three times in a row, and then the bankruptcy info 5 times in a row. In this thread.

I mean, I might be new here, but I'm pretty sure this is a ridiculous amount of spam.

And I'm not counting the duplicate posts I've seen across multiple threads.
Par for the course when a OSA disrupter appears on the board.
 

Out Effix

Out Ethics Ex Ethics Officer
Out Ethics posted the "L&N" list three times in a row, and then the bankruptcy info 5 times in a row. In this thread.

I mean, I might be new here, but I'm pretty sure this is a ridiculous amount of spam.

And I'm not counting the duplicate posts I've seen across multiple threads.
I am sorry UTR. I got a little excited and carried away. I will watch it from now on.

It was a Scientology implant in restimulation.

Number of times over equals certainty LRH.
 

Dave95694

Silly Human
While there's some truth to what you write here, I'm kind of surprised that you wouldn't have more loyalty towards your friend.

Why would you characterize Alanzo in that way? :ohmy:
Yes I did leave that a bit ambiguous!

:)

Seriously though, I do resonate with what Alanzo is trying to point out. There are stages of leaving scientology and in the later stages we no longer really care about it or the drama and move on, not get stuck in a feud with a dying organization or other imagined enemies.

I think Mike Rinder and Karen De La Carrie have done a lot to help people move on. I think Alanzo is pointing out other stuff we need to move on from, a mindset we took on in the church that required fighting for rightness, and hiding any "entheta".
 
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Type4_PTS

Diamond Invictus SP
Yes I did leave that a bit ambiguous!

:)

Seriously though, I do resonate with what Alanzo is trying to point out. There are stages of leaving scientology and in the later stages we no longer really care about it or the drama and move on, not get stuck in a feud with a dying organization or other imagined enemies.

I think Mike Rinder and Karen De La Carrie have done a lot to help people move on. I think Alanzo is pointing out other stuff we need to move on from, a mindset we took on in the church that required fighting for rightness, and hiding any "entheta".
Absolutely there are stages of leaving.

And many of here on ESMB have been out for MANY years. 30 for me! And some are recently out. We are not all in the same stage yet Alanzo addresses us like we are the Borg, with a hive mind.

Personally I no long identify as an "Ex-Scientologist" nor do I care much about Scientology. I'm only here because I like many of the people here, and until recently I focused my time and attention on the off-topic threads. Also though I'm here because once in a blue moon I've been able to help some people newly out. Once CoS stops abusing people, stops their fraudulent marketing, I won't give a fat rat's clacker about the CoS. But until then, I'll help inoculate people if I can, so they don't fall into the same trap some of us here on the board did.
 

Bill

Gold Meritorious Patron
I think Mike Rinder and Karen De La Carrie have done a lot to help people move on. I think Alanzo is pointing out other stuff we need to move on from, a mindset we took on in the church that required fighting for rightness, and hiding any "entheta".
"We"? Do you think you speak for anyone else (other than Alanzo)? You are not "we". I don't have to "move on from" anything you are talking about. Jeez!
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
I actually do know the real identity of "Out-Ethics".

It's NOT who Alanzo is claiming him to be, and he is the farthest thing from an OSA operative that one can be.

But Alanzo's attempt to out another member of ESMB is pretty disgusting in my book. Something that would have caused possibly a permanent ban had he done it during almost the entire time that ESMB existed.

But now it's just "free speech".

If it had been done to Alanzo, Emma would have a stroke over it, but it's totally fine now because Out-Ethics pissed her off.
You do realize that you continually write the wrong screen name for your under the radar friend @Out Ethics, right?

There are 2 accounts:

@Out-Ethics, and your friend @Out Ethics who came here just a couple years ago.
 
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