Mike: Mark VIII Ultra E-Meter – 9 Years In Storage; Patent Diagrams (2012)

I have to do things on a gradient. People want a needle with a pointer on the end. The simple exercise of holding a broom by the handle end and by the broom end waving it back and forth demonstrates why having a pointer on the end of the needle and expecting fast response is a futile exercise.

Many people in and out of Scientology relinquish their decisions to others whom they assign as their opinion leader. Many leaving the CofS lost DM as their opinion leader and franticly look for another. I don't get the volume of people coming here that Marty or others who are good at PR do but I mostly get people who can think for themselves.
You could actually take it a step further by using the first and second derivatives of the galvanic skin response over time and the zero crossing of the second derivative to plot out exactly when the needle is falling and rising and to what degree it is falling and rising in real-time, if you are not already doing so. Similar to those used in sub-pixel edge detection algorithms. It blows my mind that people would waste so much time trying to study the movement of an analog needle on a meter, when you can use a little mathematics and calculus to do it for you.
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
It blows my mind that people would waste so much time trying to study the movement of an analog needle on a meter, when you can use a little mathematics and calculus to do it for you.

Look at this video from about 1:00 forward. Note the trace under the C-meter "needle". Both the electronic Clarity meter, the Thetameter and probably more have similar traces along with the "analogue" needle motions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=now694JmYnE

Paul
 
Look at this video from about 1:00 forward. Note the trace under the C-meter "needle". Both the electronic Clarity meter, the Thetameter and probably more have similar traces along with the "analogue" needle motions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=now694JmYnE

Paul

Yeah, it's definitely tracing the needle movement over time, I'm not sure what the various waves are representing, it looks like it's also auto-ranging and displaying the same data but expanded and contracted over the various full scale ranges. I don't think they are displaying rate of change and acceleration of change.

If you added speech recognition to it you could plot out how each word affected the person scrapped to the meter a lot more effectively that what the cult is currently doing. It's a good thing the cult is so archaic, or they would be using the data to create trigger words to shakedown their victims even further.
 

CommunicatorIC

@IndieScieNews on Twitter
In this day and age I just don't get why anyone would rely on swings of a needle if you could simply graph out the data over time and know exactly how the galvanic skin response reacted over time instead of guessing how a needle moved. It makes no sense.
It makes perfect sense from an organizational or Third Dynamic standpoint.

If one simply relied on a graph, and not on the "science" or art of needle reading, one would discount much, if not all, of Auditor training. Adopting a simple graph approach would render much of the training of current auditors superfluous. It would render much of the Saint Hill Special Briefing Course and "Grades" Auditor training superfluous. It would render much, if not all, of Solo Auditor training superfluous.

Perhaps most importantly, it would largely destroy the mystique of the Auditor. Will Auditors remain "the most valuable beings on the planet" if what they do is... read a graph?

None of these developments are in the best interest of the organization.

Yes, the TRs and basic comm cycle stuff would remain important, but they would be much easier if one did not have to (under DM's regime) watch for three swings of the needle for a FN, or watch for and categorize all of the other needle phenomena.

How difficult would auditing be if one need only keep one's TRs in, confront only the PC, and consult a graph?

And if auditing is not difficult, if the training need not be arduous, long and exacting, how valuable will it become? How valuable will it be if anyone with good TRs can do it?
 

OTBT

Patron Meritorious
Any holy Stainless Steel e-meters stored in the vaults, along with the stainless steel engravings of Hubbard's holy writings? To be preserved in case of [STRIKE]atomic[/STRIKE] nuclear war. (Batteries not included)

Scientology falls apart without an e-meter.
 

Ralph Hilton

Patron Meritorious
How difficult would auditing be if one need only keep one's TRs in, confront only the PC, and consult a graph?
And if auditing is not difficult, if the training need not be arduous, long and exacting, how valuable will it become? How valuable will it be if anyone with good TRs can do it?
Experienced auditors tend to regard the meter as an adjunct to auditing. Training shouldn't be long and arduous. I started auditing on the RPF in 1978 and became a review auditor within a month or so. Anyone with good TRs and a good communication cycle can do it and it is still needed and valuable.
 

Infinite

Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
Experienced auditors tend to regard the meter as an adjunct to auditing. Training shouldn't be long and arduous. I started auditing on the RPF in 1978 and became a review auditor within a month or so. Anyone with good TRs and a good communication cycle can do it and it is still needed and valuable.

Upon what data do you base the assertion that Auditing is "needed and valuable"? The data I have indicates the exact opposite.
 

Helena Handbasket

Gold Meritorious Patron
I still have dreams of automating auditing -- letting a computer do all (or at least most) of the work.

Part of this is to flowchart every process, so they can be turned into programs someday.

I'm sure I'll get a few (or a lot of) responses saying that just won't work -- but I think someday it will.

Helena
 

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
:roflmao:
Yeah, if you don't want or like Scientology, the solution is ... Scientology!

I'm sure that makes sense on Planet Scientology.

Bill
Well, Bill, that's not really what infinite said about Ralph's original assertion but I see what you mean in reference to the "You need False Data stripping".

Just for the record, on Planet Scientology there are probably still tens of thousands of people who believe that auditing is "needed and wanted".

Even amongst the hundreds of thousands (maybe more) who have left the Planet Scientology and settled here on Earth there is still possibly a large percentage who, despite no longer needing or wanting auditing, acknowledge that it was "needed and wanted" at some time in their former lives.

We did a Poll here (notoriously unreliable as a source of actual data, I know) which would lead one to believe that about 50% of those who received auditing found some value in it.

This is data, just not the kind of data Infinite will accept.

Much Data, Panda. :)
 

Bill

Gold Meritorious Patron
Well, Bill, that's not really what infinite said about Ralph's original assertion but I see what you mean in reference to the "You need False Data stripping".

Just for the record, on Planet Scientology there are probably still tens of thousands of people who believe that auditing is "needed and wanted".

Even amongst the hundreds of thousands (maybe more) who have left the Planet Scientology and settled here on Earth there is still possibly a large percentage who, despite no longer needing or wanting auditing, acknowledge that it was "needed and wanted" at some time in their former lives.

We did a Poll here (notoriously unreliable as a source of actual data, I know) which would lead one to believe that about 50% of those who received auditing found some value in it.

This is data, just not the kind of data Infinite will accept.

Much Data, Panda. :)
I was not commenting on whether Scientology was needed and valuable, just commenting on Ralphs "solution" to a person who obviously wants nothing to do with Scientology is ... Scientology. It's an incredibly out-of-touch response, but very Scientological. (I actually assumed it was tongue in cheek)

As for Scientology being "needed and valuable", that's totally up to an individual. Society in general finds nothing needed or valuable in Scientology. But individuals have different needs and different value systems.

Bill
 

Sindy

Crusader
Well, Bill, that's not really what infinite said about Ralph's original assertion but I see what you mean in reference to the "You need False Data stripping".

Just for the record, on Planet Scientology there are probably still tens of thousands of people who believe that auditing is "needed and wanted".

Even amongst the hundreds of thousands (maybe more) who have left the Planet Scientology and settled here on Earth there is still possibly a large percentage who, despite no longer needing or wanting auditing, acknowledge that it was "needed and wanted" at some time in their former lives.

We did a Poll here (notoriously unreliable as a source of actual data, I know) which would lead one to believe that about 50% of those who received auditing found some value in it.

This is data, just not the kind of data Infinite will accept.

Much Data, Panda. :)

People who choose to make the statement that auditing is/was valuable and needed most often make that statement in a vacuum where the constant is the wins that they had from that auditing only.

If people are out of the C of S or are ex members, they obviously have a problem with a good deal of what the organization doles out as well as varying degrees of the philosophy. So, these people, when making the statement about the value of auditing, in a vacuum, don't further extrapolate out that this then leads inevitably and directly to that which they find objectionable then we get the circular argument that is so prevalent here. They are inextricably intertwined.
 
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