Mike: Mark VIII Ultra E-Meter – 9 Years In Storage; Patent Diagrams (2012)

Gib

Crusader
I was not commenting on whether Scientology was needed and valuable, just commenting on Ralphs "solution" to a person who obviously wants nothing to do with Scientology is ... Scientology. It's an incredibly out-of-touch response, but very Scientological. (I actually assumed it was tongue in cheek)

As for Scientology being "needed and valuable", that's totally up to an individual. Society in general finds nothing needed or valuable in Scientology. But individuals have different needs and different value systems.

Bill

If the concept (idea) of the state "clear" was not even mentioned in dianetics or sicientology,

and extrapolating from the "clear" to the concept of OT,

would dianetics/scientology continue or have been in existence for as long as it has been now, 63 years.

I dunno know, w/o the clear concept, or my take, without hubbards implanted, postulated, goal of clear & OT (and given to others as a goal), what do we have? Nothing more than a better Freud but hyped up on sales/marketing/pr. :confused2:
 

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
What bubble is that? Auditing either leads to all the crazy BS in Scientology or it doesn't, right?

It doesn't necessarily, in my opinion. I know many people who have benefited (in their own estimation) from auditing without ever having to step into the swamp.

Your experience may vary. :)
 

Gib

Crusader
It doesn't necessarily, in my opinion. I know many people who have benefited (in their own estimation) from auditing without ever having to step into the swamp.

Your experience may vary. :)

thats what I said, but in a different way. I know I have benefited.
 

Sindy

Crusader
It doesn't necessarily, in my opinion. I know many people who have benefited (in their own estimation) from auditing without ever having to step into the swamp.

Your experience may vary. :)

I see. They couldn't possibly go all that far though, could they? At some point, one has to buy into the PTS/SP tech, False Purpose and O/Ws, etc.

Just look at a Green Form or Expanded Green Form. I just looked at that and it gives me the chills - very creepy.

I guess out in the field, with the right auditor, one could just say,"I don't buy that and I don't buy this and blah, blah, blah" and it would be accepted. It depends on how "standard" or "KSW" the auditor wants to be but, there is more of a risk that an auditor will default to the bullshit mind control crap than not, imo.
 

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
Right. The things you mention aren't inherently bad or good, either apart from the, oh so, apparent dangers of mind-meddling. It's all in how they're used, IMO.

PTS/SP tech sometimes resolves situations, O/W sometimes gives people relief from the past, False Purpose Rubdown sometimes does the same thing.

In the CofS these things have become more-or-less punitive actions or, at least, actions which serve the purpose of controlling the person. The Green Form and Expanded Green Form are Correction Lists. They're supposed to correct errors made and outnesses which are limiting the postulated "workablility" of auditing.

I'm not sure how well these things work in the wild but am interested to know. :)
 

Sindy

Crusader
Right. The things you mention aren't inherently bad (or good, either) it's all in how they're used, IMO.

PTS/SP tech sometimes resolves situations, O/W sometimes gives people relief from the past, False Purpose Rubdown sometimes does the same thing.

In the CofS these things have become more-or-less punitive actions or, at least, actions which serve the purpose of controlling the person. The Green Form and Expanded Green Form are Correction Lists. They're supposed to correct errors made and outnesses which are limiting the postulated "workablility" of auditing.

I'm not sure how well these things work in the wild but am interested to know. :)

The point is, one inevitably operates under the Scientology system of knowledge laid out by LRH. I found it quite detrimental to look at life that way and it really has little to do with "corporate" Scientology.

Edit: But...I did have permanent gain from auditing.
 
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Big Farmer

Patron with Honors
Right. The things you mention aren't inherently bad or good, either apart from the, oh so, apparent dangers of mind-meddling. It's all in how they're used, IMO.

PTS/SP tech sometimes resolves situations, O/W sometimes gives people relief from the past, False Purpose Rubdown sometimes does the same thing.

In the CofS these things have become more-or-less punitive actions or, at least, actions which serve the purpose of controlling the person. The Green Form and Expanded Green Form are Correction Lists. They're supposed to correct errors made and outnesses which are limiting the postulated "workablility" of auditing.

I'm not sure how well these things work in the wild but am interested to know. :)

Are there nubile wenches involved? I may finally convert.
 
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