Mindfulness and Now

uniquemand

Unbeliever
Please take some time to listen to Jon Kabat-Zinn describe mindfulness meditation. His description matches the value I found in TRs 0. Once a person has arrived at mindfulness, they can deliver communication authentically, and help others arrive there, as well. I use the other TRs to help another person get past obstacles to this sort of awareness. It is not a permanent state, though a person can become skillful at holding it. Scientology "borrowed" this idea from meditation, and it has become central to the practice of the technology. Of course, Hubbard had to "codify" it, and then Miscavige had to "mechanize" it, but if the product, in the end, doesn't live up to mindfulness, then the whole thing should be scrapped. All "charge" is a disturbance of mindfulness. Learning to practice mindfulness, without any other practice, can eventually lead to a variety of "cognitions" the scale of which may eclipse anything you've done in Scientology. That being said, once you have the skill of mindfulness (which the TRs, properly done, CAN teach), it greatly leverages the potency of any "process". In fact, it could safely be said that the effectiveness of any "auditor" is directly dependent on that "auditor's" level of skill or inherent capability of mindfulness.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nwwKbM_vJc
 

Gadfly

Crusader
http://www.dhamma.org/

Mindfulness meditation as practiced by its source, the buddha.

It matters little whether one practices mindfulness as some version of Buddha, or as some version of Eckhart Tolle. Baba Ram Das spoke of the same thing in the 1960s and 1970s - BE HERE NOW! Being in the present. Being "in the now".

Alan Watts spoke of the same.

The idea is not new or unique to any one person. It is the basis of ALL "advanced practices" and spirituality - being able to turn off all perceptions other than WHAT one is mindful of (whether internal of external).

Note: "Being in the now" does not necessarily mean being locked into an awareness or perception of some aspect of the MEST universe (though Hubbard slants it towards that with his stress on "extroversion"). One can also focus attention "inward", and some meditation practices dig deeply into expanding the imaginative faculties and various abilites to concentrate on the INNER WORLD (which is not really "inner at all" other than one considers such to be so).

As long as you get the idea, DO IT consciously, with practice, and improve your ability at doing so, it matters little "who is source". This whole "source" thing is Hubbard & Scientology bullshit. :omg:

Now, while one can set out on extensive adventures of mindfulness directed at the "inner universes", doing so "out there in the shared physical universe" does have a great many benefits. It is simply ONE STEP to learn how to "be there" with the stuff of the physical universe, with people, with force, with chaos. It is simply one aspect of where and how one can focus attention within all-that-is.

If you practice mindfulness for any great period of time, one thing you come to notice and appreciate is that NOTHING is there for you unless you "put it there".
 

BardoThodol

Silver Meritorious Patron
An important lesson I learned not long ago was: it is as important HOW one is mindful as THAT one is mindful. To be mindful with joy and caring adds character and dimension to the experience which leaves on fulfilled.

As a comparison, to be mindful as a sociopath might be mindful is an emptiness.
 

BardoThodol

Silver Meritorious Patron
It matters little whether one practices mindfulness as some version of Buddha, or as some version of Eckhart Tolle. Baba Ram Das spoke of the same thing in the 1960s and 1970s - BE HERE NOW! Being in the present. Being "in the now".

Alan Watts spoke of the same.

The idea is not new or unique to any one person. It is the basis of ALL "advanced practices" and spirituality - being able to turn off all perceptions other than WHAT one is mindful of (whether internal of external).

Note: "Being in the now" does not necessarily mean being locked into an awareness or perception of some aspect of the MEST universe (though Hubbard slants it towards that with his stress on "extroversion"). One can also focus attention "inward", and some meditation practices dig deeply into expanding the imaginative faculties and various abilites to concentrate on the INNER WORLD (which is not really "inner at all" other than one considers such to be so).

As long as you get the idea, DO IT consciously, with practice, and improve your ability at doing so, it matters little "who is source". This whole "source" thing is Hubbard & Scientology bullshit. :omg:

Now, while one can set out on extensive adventures of mindfulness directed at the "inner universes", doing so "out there in the shared physical universe" does have a great many benefits. It is simply ONE STEP to learn how to "be there" with the stuff of the physical universe, with people, with force, with chaos. It is simply one aspect of where and how one can focus attention within all-that-is.

If you practice mindfulness for any great period of time, one thing you come to notice and appreciate is that NOTHING is there for you unless you "put it there".

Gadfly,

Which makes the what and the how "you put it there" all the more important.

I always thought it interesting the emphasis on being in the "here and now" when the "here and now" is essentially an illusion. At a certain point, "present time" just becomes restrictive, like a cage or prison. You get stuck looking at what seems to be rather than what is.

Mindfulness of a lie becomes a lie in itself when one fails to realize that it is a lie that is being perceived. As the aphorism goes: appearances can be deceiving.
 

BardoThodol

Silver Meritorious Patron
Really? My guess is that "the Buddha" is a mythological person. I am not concerned with who authored a procedure, only it's effectiveness.

But... Then who would you worship?

My peanut butter sandwiches just never taste good unless I know exactly who crushed the peanuts. Just knowing who put the hammer to the nut makes me sink to my knees with pleasure, moaning over every bite. Yummm! Delicisciosiusiousnessednesss! "Thank you Martha Goober!"
 

Gadfly

Crusader
An important lesson I learned not long ago was: it is as important HOW one is mindful as THAT one is mindful. To be mindful with joy and caring adds character and dimension to the experience which leaves on fulfilled.

As a comparison, to be mindful as a sociopath might be mindful is an emptiness.

Great point. Quite awhile ago, while doing some intense meditation, I got to a point where I was truly "there with nothing". The inner space had vanished, as I had successfully quieted the internal noise/motion/movement of the "mind", and I was "out there in my environment with nothing else". The entire world of perceptions began to fade, collapse and disappear (for me). I realized that if I am going to BE HERE, I have to ADD TO THE MIX. As long a you participate in/with any aspect of life or existence, whether you know it or not, YOU are putting something there. The "how" of "being there". The "how" - in what WAY you choose to look and see.

If you gradually take away the "how", WHAT you see and view goes away. There are meditations that lead to that. It isn't really complicated. Though until one can easily silence the "inner world" at will, it will remain seemingly so.

I also found that since it is quite arbitrary HOW one "is there", meaning what "attitude" or "viewpoint" one assumes, that I should CHOOSE what I consider to be the "best", "highest", and what is also even probably the "best for me", in terms of HOW to "look" and "see" what is all around me.

I decided to go with similar notions, such as compassion, joy, granting beingness, going with the flow, NOT creating arguments, NOT adding to conflict and drama, encouraging harmony in deed and words, etc.

For example, one can "be there" with a sunset. If you push it far enough, there is nothing there except energy and some perception of that energy via the senses. But also, if I "add" something to the mix, some appreciation of the magnificence, I "see beauty in the glorious sunset". There is no "beauty" OUT THERE. Every time, anytime you see and appreciate beauty, YOU are putting it there. Granted, there are certain objects that many people react/respond to with appreciations of beauty.

I think that it is good to be able to "be there", with nothing, as an ability, and to understand that ones basic awareness is/can be fundamentally "without object". But, when it comes to living life, one must ADD a bit more than just "being there with nothing". :yes:

Though it does seem (to me) that if one TRULY practices "being there", quietly and without additives, silencing the noisy internal mind, while aiming and shining ones attention into the Universe, that the JOY and APPRECIATION and THANKFULNESS occur naturally.

It is a truly an amazing and wonderful Universe. :happydance:
 
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Gadfly

Crusader
This seems relevant. From a certain view, if you are not feeling joy, thankfulness and gratitude to all-that-is (the Universe), then you are NOT "present".

From http://www.mindbridge-loa.com/eckhart-tolle-2.html

"Eckhart Tolle reminds us that anyone who has ever been in a life and death situation was totally present in the Now. The mind, during these times, shuts down. The chatter stops. It is quiet. As people describe, "something infinitely more powerful takes over" and this is when mothers are able to life cars to pull out their stricken child. Others become "extraordinarily capable of incredibly courageous deeds."

In these situations, there is no time. You will survive right now, or you won't. Either way, Tolle reiterates, it is not a problem.

Most people, Eckhart Tolle explains, are resistant to giving up the worries that have become part of their experience of themselves. They might even become angry at anyone suggesting that they don't need those feelings, even though they know that this is valuable for conscious reality creation.

Yet, if you honor the present moment, and feel gratitude for the present moment, the unhappiness will fall away, we are assured by Eckhart Tolle.

Tolle explains that if there is no "joy, ease or lightness" in what you are doing, remember that the "how" is more important than the "what". In his other book, he talks about the joy that monks have at simple duties such as scrubbing the stone floor, or cleaning the pots. Such simple duties allow great attention to the task, which then allows the monk to clear his mind of chatter, and to be absolutely in the present. Do not worry about the results of your work, but attend to the action itself. Eckhart Tolle assures us that the fruit will come.

The Bhagavad Gita describes this as "consecrated action". Eckhart Tolle says, "when the compulsive striving away from the Now ceases, the joy of Being flows into everything that you do."

Even this is a "what". Eckhart Tolle describes the "how". Ask yourself either, "Am I at ease at this moment?" or "What's going on inside of me at this moment?" Either question sheds some light in the darkness. Either question directs attention inward. As he says, get the inside right and the outside will fall into place. "
 

uniquemand

Unbeliever
It matters little whether one practices mindfulness as some version of Buddha, or as some version of Eckhart Tolle. Baba Ram Das spoke of the same thing in the 1960s and 1970s - BE HERE NOW! Being in the present. Being "in the now".

Alan Watts spoke of the same.

The idea is not new or unique to any one person. It is the basis of ALL "advanced practices" and spirituality - being able to turn off all perceptions other than WHAT one is mindful of (whether internal of external).

Note: "Being in the now" does not necessarily mean being locked into an awareness or perception of some aspect of the MEST universe (though Hubbard slants it towards that with his stress on "extroversion"). One can also focus attention "inward", and some meditation practices dig deeply into expanding the imaginative faculties and various abilites to concentrate on the INNER WORLD (which is not really "inner at all" other than one considers such to be so).

As long as you get the idea, DO IT consciously, with practice, and improve your ability at doing so, it matters little "who is source". This whole "source" thing is Hubbard & Scientology bullshit. :omg:

Now, while one can set out on extensive adventures of mindfulness directed at the "inner universes", doing so "out there in the shared physical universe" does have a great many benefits. It is simply ONE STEP to learn how to "be there" with the stuff of the physical universe, with people, with force, with chaos. It is simply one aspect of where and how one can focus attention within all-that-is.

If you practice mindfulness for any great period of time, one thing you come to notice and appreciate is that NOTHING is there for you unless you "put it there".

Nothing might be there in your mind, but your sense channels will still be working, though you may not be paying attention to them. They physical universe is still there, though it may not seem the way it used to, and that might be significant. However, the change is in ME, not the physical universe, which was always the way it was, my perception of it was just more limited, or filtered in a different way.

I'm not convinced that there is nothing there if you don't put it there, either, however, like a piece of furniture that is in a room, you might navigate around it without ever noticing it anymore: it has become background noise. Becoming aware of something doesn't make it disappear (that is a Scientology falsehood), though it might make it seem different, or bring it within the sphere of your influence.
 

Gadfly

Crusader
Nothing might be there in your mind, but your sense channels will still be working, though you may not be paying attention to them. They physical universe is still there, though it may not seem the way it used to, and that might be significant. However, the change is in ME, not the physical universe, which was always the way it was, my perception of it was just more limited, or filtered in a different way.

I'm not convinced that there is nothing there if you don't put it there, either, however, like a piece of furniture that is in a room, you might navigate around it without ever noticing it anymore: it has become background noise. Becoming aware of something doesn't make it disappear (that is a Scientology falsehood), though it might make it seem different, or bring it within the sphere of your influence.

Hypothetically, if we are each fundamentally a spiritual being who can/does exist "without a body", then what is "there for you" is there ONLY because you choose to have it be there. It "goes away" for YOU.

The basic theory of various eastern philosophies is that FIRST there is the creative awareness, and that ALL ELSE follows as an imaginative creation of THAT. Sure, I can allow all my sense channels to disconnect from my awareness, and to allow the physical universe to disappear for me. And, as long as there are a few people in agreement, who HAVE NOT done the same thing by allowing it to fade away, then it will "be there".

There is a relationship here between the observer and what is observed. It is NOT passive, and the state, nature, or view of any person directly affects WHAT is observed. Not just "how" it is seen and experienced, which most people can easily grasp as being directly influenced by HOW YOU THINK & VIEW THINGS, but also, even, that the object of observation exists at all (for you).

The physical body possesses sense channels that detect and process certain energy ranges (frequencies). That "data" may end at the brain. I am only guessing here, based on my own experiences, but if I can "break the connection", then there is no more sensory data. By the way, I have done meditations where it did all "go away".

Since I am a novice in this fiddling with various meditation techniques, I can grasp how it MIGHT be possible, with extensive hard work and discipline, to fine-tune and expand such "abilities". I am talking along the lines of deep Tibetan Buddhism here, where one spends a great deal of time "exercising & practicing" the imagination and ability to concentrate on inner and external things.

I have found that most people have so little familiarity with these sorts of practices that I can't have sensible or meaningful conversations with them. But, until a person actually spends some time improving the ability to direct attention, focus, concentrate without any distraction, and especially to greatly expand the ability to imagine in detail (color, shape, motion, size, etc.), even in contradiction to "real things", discussions of such things is extremely limited.

These things are NOT done at all in Scientology (except as accidental by-products). At best Scientology can help some people live a happier life. As a path towards spiritual growth in ANY form it is a joke.

Yes, the "change is in you", but it "reflects" in all else around you. It may be true that the eastern view is correct, and that the entire universe is a RESULT of creative awareness, and thus, that, of course, for there to EVER be any change "out there", there would first have to be a change "in here". The "out there" is a result of "in here".

There is no doubt that for a great many things such as success, love, happiness, health and more, that effecting changes "in here" DOES directly influence experiences of such things. One tends to "attract" people and situations in direct accordance with what is "in here". It is a common modern therapy, based on eastern views and practices, to change ones inner state (through affirmations and/or visualization techniques) as a way to directly coax the Universe into unfolding DIFFERENTLY for you.

If this notioin can be pushed to the very existence of the physical universe itself is something else though.

As always, good talking with you uniquemand.
 

MattD

Patron with Honors
Really? My guess is that "the Buddha" is a mythological person. I am not concerned with who authored a procedure, only it's effectiveness.

My comment was not meant to denigrate others or imply that one needed to only accept "pure" lineages of schools of thought/technique.

I only wanted to point to a simple, long proven method for working on mindfulness and toward "enlightenment". (whatever that may be! )

This style of vipassana can be done anywhere, without any special additives, such as mantras, sutras, chanting etc. The focus is on body, the results thus not tarnished with dogma. (my current belief is that the attachment of consciousness to "body" links to the body attachment to all material, and thus some degree of liberation of consciousness from body is a good path)

I personally think "the buddha" was a historical figure, but that doesnt really matter much. He was just a man.

Vipassana is very effective. This branch of its teaching offers it free, and all over the world, supported by true volunteers, with minimal cult trappings.

http://www.dhamma.org

:)
 

uniquemand

Unbeliever
My comment was not meant to denigrate others or imply that one needed to only accept "pure" lineages of schools of thought/technique.

I only wanted to point to a simple, long proven method for working on mindfulness and toward "enlightenment". (whatever that may be! )

This style of vipassana can be done anywhere, without any special additives, such as mantras, sutras, chanting etc. The focus is on body, the results thus not tarnished with dogma. (my current belief is that the attachment of consciousness to "body" links to the body attachment to all material, and thus some degree of liberation of consciousness from body is a good path)

I personally think "the buddha" was a historical figure, but that doesnt really matter much. He was just a man.

Vipassana is very effective. This branch of its teaching offers it free, and all over the world, supported by true volunteers, with minimal cult trappings.

http://www.dhamma.org

:)

Vipassana does look like an excellent method. I think it is highly consonant with any form of work that helps a person detach from compulsions or inhibitions of their attention or intention.
 

uniquemand

Unbeliever
This seems relevant. From a certain view, if you are not feeling joy, thankfulness and gratitude to all-that-is (the Universe), then you are NOT "present".

From http://www.mindbridge-loa.com/eckhart-tolle-2.html

"Eckhart Tolle reminds us that anyone who has ever been in a life and death situation was totally present in the Now. The mind, during these times, shuts down. The chatter stops. It is quiet. As people describe, "something infinitely more powerful takes over" and this is when mothers are able to life cars to pull out their stricken child. Others become "extraordinarily capable of incredibly courageous deeds."

In these situations, there is no time. You will survive right now, or you won't. Either way, Tolle reiterates, it is not a problem.

Most people, Eckhart Tolle explains, are resistant to giving up the worries that have become part of their experience of themselves. They might even become angry at anyone suggesting that they don't need those feelings, even though they know that this is valuable for conscious reality creation.

Yet, if you honor the present moment, and feel gratitude for the present moment, the unhappiness will fall away, we are assured by Eckhart Tolle.

Tolle explains that if there is no "joy, ease or lightness" in what you are doing, remember that the "how" is more important than the "what". In his other book, he talks about the joy that monks have at simple duties such as scrubbing the stone floor, or cleaning the pots. Such simple duties allow great attention to the task, which then allows the monk to clear his mind of chatter, and to be absolutely in the present. Do not worry about the results of your work, but attend to the action itself. Eckhart Tolle assures us that the fruit will come.

The Bhagavad Gita describes this as "consecrated action". Eckhart Tolle says, "when the compulsive striving away from the Now ceases, the joy of Being flows into everything that you do."

Even this is a "what". Eckhart Tolle describes the "how". Ask yourself either, "Am I at ease at this moment?" or "What's going on inside of me at this moment?" Either question sheds some light in the darkness. Either question directs attention inward. As he says, get the inside right and the outside will fall into place. "

When the joy of living is gone, I would like to cease to be.
 
An important lesson I learned not long ago was: it is as important HOW one is mindful as THAT one is mindful. To be mindful with joy and caring adds character and dimension to the experience which leaves on fulfilled.

As a comparison, to be mindful as a sociopath might be mindful is an emptiness.

and to be mindful as a psychopath helps you run up the body count
 

Cat's Squirrel

Gold Meritorious Patron
This seems relevant. From a certain view, if you are not feeling joy, thankfulness and gratitude to all-that-is (the Universe), then you are NOT "present".

From http://www.mindbridge-loa.com/eckhart-tolle-2.html

"Eckhart Tolle reminds us that anyone who has ever been in a life and death situation was totally present in the Now. The mind, during these times, shuts down. The chatter stops. It is quiet. As people describe, "something infinitely more powerful takes over" and this is when mothers are able to life cars to pull out their stricken child. Others become "extraordinarily capable of incredibly courageous deeds."

In these situations, there is no time. You will survive right now, or you won't. Either way, Tolle reiterates, it is not a problem.

Most people, Eckhart Tolle explains, are resistant to giving up the worries that have become part of their experience of themselves. They might even become angry at anyone suggesting that they don't need those feelings, even though they know that this is valuable for conscious reality creation.

Yet, if you honor the present moment, and feel gratitude for the present moment, the unhappiness will fall away, we are assured by Eckhart Tolle.

Tolle explains that if there is no "joy, ease or lightness" in what you are doing, remember that the "how" is more important than the "what". In his other book, he talks about the joy that monks have at simple duties such as scrubbing the stone floor, or cleaning the pots. Such simple duties allow great attention to the task, which then allows the monk to clear his mind of chatter, and to be absolutely in the present. Do not worry about the results of your work, but attend to the action itself. Eckhart Tolle assures us that the fruit will come.

The Bhagavad Gita describes this as "consecrated action". Eckhart Tolle says, "when the compulsive striving away from the Now ceases, the joy of Being flows into everything that you do."

Even this is a "what". Eckhart Tolle describes the "how". Ask yourself either, "Am I at ease at this moment?" or "What's going on inside of me at this moment?" Either question sheds some light in the darkness. Either question directs attention inward. As he says, get the inside right and the outside will fall into place. "

This is good. I practised Eckhart's "feeling my inner body" when listening to a friend in our work group today who'd received some bad news, and found I was able to listen more attentively than I usually could (Eckhart calls it "giving someone space.") So far though I can't do it consistently but it's definitely worth practising.
 

uniquemand

Unbeliever
Lots of people like Tolle. Lots of people decry him as being a weird guru. I, personally, love his stuff. I don't like the new-agey way he's presented, but I admire his soft delivery, his attentiveness, and his willingness to completely explain his ideas.

I despise his Santorum-style sweater-vest, but I put that down to his Germanity.

http://vimeo.com/13056150
 
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