Miracles though AuditingShe had one more miscar

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Leon-2

Patron Meritorious
If Hubbard is the founder and creator of the de-abberating technology....

If Hubbard had vastly greater number of auditing hours than anyone who ever lived...

If Hubbard was the most advanced OT in the universe (first to figure out OT III and not die). . .

If Hubbard also created the ethics tech to ensure that the OT tech worked. . .

If Hubbard was the beneficiary of all those tens of thousands of dollars of auditing and ethics and Clear/OT powers. . .

THEN WHY DID SCIENTOLOGY TAKE A VERY WRONG TURN?

You created a post for wins & miracles. I would like to share my win now. I realized that L. Ron Hubbard was the ultimate proof that Scientology did not work, at all. My win also includes the regained ability to spot a manipulative con man with a sociopathically insatiable appetite for money, power and fame. And my win is that I realized that Hubbard lied about Clear & OT and all the rest of his mystical, magical cosmic mumbo jumbo.

Please do not invalidate my win.

Please do not evaluate my win and try to tell me it's not a win.

Please flow power to my win and disseminate it as you would your own wins. LOL


Personal Success Stories are not acceptable on ESMB. The moderator told me that just yesterday. Or the day before - my memory is fading. Please take your nonsense wins elsewhere - they are not wanted on this board.
 
M

Moderator 3

Guest
Personal Success Stories are not acceptable on ESMB. The moderator told me that just yesterday. Or the day before - my memory is fading. Please take your nonsense wins elsewhere - they are not wanted on this board.
I said no such thing, Leon. I said...

Yes, Leon, I had the same general idea that these were CofS-oriented Success Stories (hereafter abbreviated to SS). The problem with that is we have a sort of ad hoc (ie. made up) "rule" about posting the SS of others (posting your personal SS is OK).

Poor Terril was roundly criticised for spamming FZ SS here and Emma finally drew the line way back in about 2009 or so.

The problem I had was that I understood that these were probably fodder for General Discussion but that they kinda violated that ad hoc "rule" I mentioned. Moving them to the Indie/FZ/other flavors of scientology sub-forum was the kindest solution I could come up with.

(And, let's face it, if those stories are to be credited, they'd have to be as a result of some "other flavor of scientology" than anything the CofS is delivering.)

The area gets a little muddy when an Auditor is discussing his personal success at helping others by relating their success stories. It gets even muddier when people are just making shit up in order to take the piss out of someone.
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
It may not be feeling threatened by someone claiming miracles by way of auditing that cause the disagreement. With all the attention scientology is getting now more people, stuck in the world according to hubbard , might be looking for some different answers and this would be an opportune time to draw some of those people into the freezone/indie groups.

I didn't say that feeling threatened causes disagreements

Disagreement causes disagreement.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Leon,

When a good friend of mine was on an auditing internship, she did a touch assist on someone in the hospital, a recent amputee. The patient had pain in a phantom limb. At the end of the session, no more pain, in fact, no more phantom limb.

This is anecdotal. I can't prove it. I don't know the patient's name, nor would I have permission to publish it. But do I believe it? Yes. The auditor is someone who, if she tells you it's going to rain, you'd best bring an umbrella and boots.

I think that if people can discuss all the times Scn didn't come through or work for them or for people they knew, that one could do the opposite. Though it does mean that, being on a public forum, people are going to comment.


Some people seem genuinely threatened by someone saying there was a "win" or whatnot. I don't mean disagreement. I expect disagreement. My best friend raises his eyebrows and just laughs at me when I tell him about stuff like that touch assist. Do I mind? Hell no. He doesn't feel threatened at all. But he's not about to lie to me about his opinion and I get that.

I would suggest ignoring the people's posts that are mocking you or trying to whine or tear a stripe off your hide, but maybe you may enjoy responding to those who offer disagreement or debate. Two very different things.

It's true that a lot of positive things are happening in the critic's scene by all these books and that wonderful documentary coming out and we think the cult's day of reckoning is coming, maybe already here. But I think by negativity, you might have meant the resentment expressed to you and others for having continued interest in Scn.

Posting about miracles in auditing won't make any converts but perhaps it can just be seen as an effort to say to people, look, this is why I'm into this stuff.

Some people are "genuinely threatened" by someone having a win? Really? Which people are you talking about? Who exactly? How do you know they are feeling "threatened"? Why can't they just disagree with a Scientologist? Why does there have to be something mentally/emotionally wrong with them to engage in a lively discussion about the "wins & miracles" (Leon's words) of Hubbard's "tech". When you disagree, is there something emotionally/mentally wrong with you? Are you feeling "threatened"? You should think again about throwing around that kind of HubbardThink. That's a bad fucking hangover from the cult. Sleep it off or something.

You suggest Leon ignore people's posts? Would that be like disconnection? LOL. Is Leon as pitifully weak as you portray him or can he read & speak for himself?
 

JustSheila

Crusader
The area gets a little muddy when an Auditor is discussing his personal success at helping others by relating their success stories.

I'll go with that.

When someone posts something on the Board about others' success stories, it seems like advertising. It is not the person posting, he is posting what someone else said with the intention of convincing another that a certain ideology is good, correct or preferable because he/she believes this is so.

There is the same sort of reaction here to success stories or miracles of other religions, btw, or just about any claims of miracles from any source. How do you think ESMBers would react to a thread specifically proselytising the miracles of Christianity? :omg: Anyone who would start such a thread would be a :target:. Nobody likes proselytising of any kind here. There are different sites for that. ESMBers in general are particularly hard on Scientology success stories because it's an evil, destructive cult that we all know far too well.

If one believes in miracles, they are to be found in many, many places. If one wants to start a miracles thread, why, I'd be happy to throw in some stories ranging from the Dali Lama to the Virgin Mary to levitations to carnival shows and even Houdini.

None of them were Scientologists - and they don't have a religion in common, and much is simply a matter of interpretation. Many here would say no miracle happened at all.
 

Lone Star

Crusader
Personal Success Stories are not acceptable on ESMB. The moderator told me that just yesterday. Or the day before - my memory is fading. Please take your nonsense wins elsewhere - they are not wanted on this board.

I think there's a handling/process for fading memory. If I could only remember what it is. :duh:
 
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Terril park

Sponsor
True, true, true and true. Poor choice of words on my part. "Spamming" usually connotes more than one or two instances of unsolicited advertising. Except when it doesn't.

:))

I've done my bit re posting FZ successes,15 years, and still do elsewhere from time to time.

IIRC one reason Emma started this board was because I was
treated badly elsewhere. Below I quote most of the FAQ for this
board. Its inconsistent. I can't express myself with the successes of my friends.

No big deal for me anymore. Also we now have Dror posting
successes here and South Africa for example.

Maybe revisit FAQs?

Yes some react to positive statements re Scn. Yet FZ/Indie
efforts have been very important in reducing CO$ income and will
it seems become even more important. Also FZ/Indie
statements are excellent refutations of CO$ nonsense and
probably communicate better than critical bashing. They align
quite well with Larry Wright and Alex Gibneys approach.

-------------

Why was the board created?

This board was created to fill a void. There needed to be a place where people can gather to discuss their experiences with Scientology in a moderated environment.

What is meant by moderation?

We are not thought police. You are free to express yourself however you like providing it is not abusive to others. The only reason a moderator will step in is if there is abuse, threats of violence or anything that puts the board in some sort of legal danger. Moderators are there to keep the board on track, not to dictate your thinking

What is the purpose of the board?

The board is for Ex Scientologists of all "denominations" to get together and talk things over.

Some leave the church because they are forced out by some insane ethics order yet remain true believers; some left of their own accord because it stopped making sense; some find the tech truly workable but management corrupt; some find the earlier tech workable but call the Golden Age of Tech the "work of squirrels"; some don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater and some feel that there is no baby at all.
Some practice Scientology alternatives, some practice Freezone Scientology, some use bits and pieces in their daily lives and some want nothing more to do with it.

It is likely that most people are happy where they sit in regards to Scientology. They have their minds made up about it and no amount of discussion will change that. This board is not meant to be a vehicle to plead your case, reconvert the fallen or preach your brand. It is designed to allow people to connect up, gain some understanding of our differences, learn to respect each others opinions and find some peace with it and hopefully within ourselves.

Who is considered an "Ex Scientologist"?

Anyone who has broken free of the restraints of the Official Church of Scientology and is "allowed" to read & post to the internet.
 
M

Moderator 3

Guest
Most of us have changed our minds many times about many things since 2007, Terril.
ESMB remains a diverse and healthy forum for scientology-discussion.
It's all good. :)
 

Terril park

Sponsor
I said no such thing, Leon. I said...



The area gets a little muddy when an Auditor is discussing his personal success at helping others by relating their success stories. It gets even muddier when people are just making shit up in order to take the piss out of someone.

Understand the problem re personal advertising.

Doubt if Leon was making shit up to take the piss out of
someone.

Been on forums with him many years before ESMB was even
thought of.

He's a straight shooter even if you don't like where he shoots. :)

I'm sure you agree.

I hinted at it in another post here. I think ESMB is better off to
have a thread for ex scientologists to post SSs.

There are going to be increasing numbers leaving, or going
under the radar, re COS. Alternatives to Scn will be needed more
than ever it seems.

A forum that welcomes them and allows them their space
is IMO positive. That its a forum that criticizes fundamentalism
is another positive and probably very necessary.

So many say that FZ/Indie is a stepping stone to
leaving Scn completely. So put your money where your mouth
is. Let people freely step wherever the fuck they want. :)
 

Veda

Sponsor
End of session or completion statements, not (loaded language) "Success Stories"

Travelling down memory lane

Apart from my time inside Scientology where I audited, I have hundreds of pages written by those I've audited, in years past, outside the Cof$. I called them "end of session statements" and "completion Statements," not "success stories." (They were not "Success Stories" but "Statements.")

When, outside the Cof$, I audited someone to a major result, especially after a lengthy program, that person was usually DONE with auditing for the foreseeable future, probably forever.

I made sure they didn't become "auditing junkies."

While I did some "NOTs"-type auditing briefly on a few "pcs," if they were curious, I refused to send anyone on to the confidential levels (as it's here the bait and switch begins, going from open to secretive and from "ask the person" to "tell the person"). All my "pcs" are now doing well. And some are pursuing other disciplines such as Yoga, Zen, biofeedback, mountain climbing and, best of all, LIVING.

The only exception was sending some of my "pcs" to Geoff Filbert for a general review, and for Power Processing - to top off my auditing with one of the few "confidential" processes that did not seem to utilize "bait and switch."

I'm slightly embarrassed about that now, but at the time, it seemed like a good idea. My opinion of Filbert has lowered considerably, but he did do an OK job on these "pcs."



_________​


Phil Spicker, an older man, is someone who, in recent times, has fallen under the influence of certain Zoner Scientologists who exploit him by making videos under their direction and suggestion.

This statement by him, from some years ago - pre Zoner manipulation - is, IMO, noteworthy.

From January, 2003, on the hypnotic influence Hubbard had over Scientologists, even during the "good old days":

Ron could say, 'Blank blank', and without knowing how it was done, folks would simply create Blank blank, put the significance and mass into it and charge it up so well that it ran on a meter like dynamite, while the guy imagined that it was something that had been lying around in his reactive mind for ages and he just hit upon it...

Why, a clever lecturer can sometimes get a whole audience of people in such a high degree of agreement with and about what that lecturer is discussing that afterward, with a very few exceptions, you could take each member of the audience and get what the lecturer was talking about to run on an E-meter with each person achieving what would be thought to be case gain.

Anyway, I don't want take this particular line too much further, but I think it's fair to say that Ron achieved a state in the minds and hearts and souls of many of his followers that made it possible for them to unknowingly create and audit his discoveries as promoted and described to them. And that is a business you can't beat. And of course, keep them coming back for more is the motto of almost all businesses, second only to profit as motive.


___________​


IMO, there is some "truth" and some good in Scientology. These are essential components of the TRAP.

Both "truth" and goodness (the goodness manifest in the naïve or "dupe") have been used both as an outer disguise layer, and as a medium of conveyance of ideas and intentions. Without that positive (or at least neutral) element or medium, Scientology would likely not have had much influence, and we probably wouldn't be discussing it right now.

I've described this in many ways, one being the lacquer & solvent analogy. These two ingredients combined make glue, and glue hardens as the solvent evaporates.

Scientology presents communication as the "universal solvent," and new Scientologists typically will read L. Ron Hubbard's inspirational words, "The simplicity of observation itself, and only itself, is functional and will take Man from the bottom to the top. And the only thing I am trying to get you to do is look."

Then, as that Scientologist continues his involvement with Scientology, the "bait and switch" nature of Scientology kicks in, and he finds that he is encouraged to, selectively, not look. This selective un-looking, becomes internalized - becomes part of the person - and thereafter seems the natural way to be.

The solvent has evaporated and the glue has hardened.


4a.jpeg
 
M

Moderator 3

Guest
...
Doubt if Leon was making shit up to take the piss out of
someone.

...
Terril, read the thread and particularly the post of Leon's I was directly responding to. I wasn't referring to Leon with that comment. I know that Leon is a straight-shooter.
 

Terril park

Sponsor
Re: End of session or completion statements, not (loaded language) "Success Stories"

Travelling down memory lane

Apart from my time inside Scientology where I audited, I have hundreds of pages written by those I've audited, in years past, outside the Cof$. I called them "end of session statements" and "completion Statements," not "success stories." (They were not "Success Stories" but "Statements.")

When, outside the Cof$, I audited someone to a major result, especially after a lengthy program, that person was usually DONE with auditing for the foreseeable future, probably forever.

I made sure they didn't become "auditing junkies."

I refused to send anyone on to the confidential levels (as it's here the bait and switch begins, going from open to secretive and from "ask the person" to "tell the person"). All my "pcs" are now doing well. And some are pursuing other disciplines such as Yoga, Zen, biofeedback, mountain climbing and, best of all, LIVING.

The only exception was sending some of my "pcs" to Geoff Filbert for a general review, and for Power Processing - to top off my auditing with one of the few "confidential" processes that did not seem to utilize "bait and switch."

I'm slightly embarrassed about that now, but at the time, it seemed like a good idea. My opinion of Filbert has lowered considerably, but he did do an OK job on these "pcs."



_________​


Phil Spicker, an older man, is someone who, in recent times, has fallen under the influence of certain Zoner Scientologists who exploit him by making videos under their direction and suggestion.

You don't say who wrote that in Blue. You?

Phil Spickler falling under the influence of certain Zoners?

Who Exploit him???

You are speaking out your ass!

Was I who suggested he make some videos. I connected him
to Tatiana and he didn't want to go ahead
because Tatiana has a very strong accent, a lovely girl. I never
spoke to him again about this but he formed a good relationship
to Tatiana and made very many videos. And enjoys playing
chess with her.You think someone could influence Phil?
You're nuts!!! For long before I met him he had published
many scathing essays about Ron. But he remains
a protagonist for the tech he learned from Ron in the fifties
and beyond. His videos are very important documents about
the subject of Scn LRH and CO$.

http://community.freezone-tech.info/phil-spickler/from-the-book-open-field/
 

Veda

Sponsor
Re: End of session or completion statements, not (loaded language) "Success Stories"

You don't say who wrote that in Blue. You?

That's right, from thirty years ago, when I was in the process of examining the subject of auditing, freshly, from outside the organization - to see what's what.

Phil Spickler falling under the influence of certain Zoners?

Who Exploit him???

You are speaking out your ass!

Was I who suggested he make some videos. I connected him
to Tatiana and he didn't want to go ahead
because Tatiana has a very strong accent, a lovely girl. I never
spoke to him again about this but he formed a good relationship
to Tatiana and made very many videos. And enjoys playing
chess with her.You think someone could influence Phil?
You're nuts!!! For long before I met him he had published
many scathing essays about Ron. But he remains
a protagonist for the tech he learned from Ron in the fifties
and beyond. His videos are very important documents about
the subject of Scn LRH and CO$.

http://community.freezone-tech.info/phil-spickler/from-the-book-open-field/

That's nice.

IMO, the statement from him, from 12 years ago, is worth reading.
 

Terril park

Sponsor
Re: End of session or completion statements, not (loaded language) "Success Stories"

That's right, from thirty years ago, when I was in the process of examining the subject, freshly, from outside the organization - to see what's what.



That's nice.

IMO, the statement from him, from 12 years ago, is worth reading.

Also many other posts he made to Ivy Magazine. Not to
mention his videos.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
..

Originally Posted by Claire Swazey
Some people seem genuinely threatened by someone saying there was a "win" or whatnot. >snip<


Originally Posted by HelluvaHoax!
Some people are "
genuinely threatened" by someone having a win? really?



quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by Claire Swazey
AFAIK, absolutely no one is threatened by anyone having a win. Cuz it's not what I wrote.



:confused2:


Freaky! LOL

I can't even imagine how Claire explains her way out of that one....
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
:confused2:

Exactly. It's right there. Look at what I wrote. Not being sarcastic when I say I know for certain you are very intelligent. I don't believe you can't see how one or two words being different significantly change the meaning.

Ok, hon, it's getting late, this tablet's a pain to type on and I gotta get up early in the ayem. I am speedily nearing incoherence. . See you guys tomorrow.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Exactly. It's right there. Look at what I wrote. Not being sarcastic when I say I know for certain you are very intelligent. I don't believe you can't see how one or two words being different significantly change the meaning.

So only very intelligent beings can dig through your cryptic rhetorical mess and divine the true meaning? LOL

Wouldn't it be simpler if you just answered with an English sentence that people could understand?
 
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