Miscavigetown on the anniversary of Jonestown

AnonKat

Crusader
Miscavigetown on the anniversary of Jonestown

Posted on November 18, 2010 by martyrathbun09| .... Comments
http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2010/11/18/miscavigetown-on-the-anniversary-of-jonestown/

I said it from the outset. The overriding reason I spoke to the St Pete Times in the first place last year was to prevent Miscavige from going the route of Jim Jones of People’s Temple. I told Anderson Cooper that CNN’s Jonestown Anniversary documentary got me to thinking about the parallels between David Miscavige and Jim Jones. Apparently, the maintstream media were intimidated by Radical Scientology from airing these comments. Well, MotorCityRedneck (whomever that is) has drawn those parallels very graphically on this anniversary of the Jonestown massacre. I thank that person for going through the trouble of effectively communicating what I apparently was not able to articulate convincingly enough. Fasten your seat belts. Here it is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=sGzYM0LRHwY

^ Embedded Video ^
 

ensifer

Patron
I said it from the outset. The overriding reason I spoke to the St Pete Times in the first place last year was to prevent Miscavige from going the route of Jim Jones of People’s Temple.

So it's safe to assume then that every day that there isn't a mass suicide in Scientology is a day that M. Rathbun's strategy succeeded?
 

paradox

ab intra silentio vera
For researchers or anyone interested in Jonestown archival material, including transcripts, tapes, and articles:

Main Site

http://jonestown.sdsu.edu/

Audiotape Project Index


http://jonestown.sdsu.edu/AboutJonestown/Tapes/tapes.htm


Listing of transcripts and link to the actual audio tape (below)

"The following links take you to three different but fairly complete transcripts of the so-called "Death Tape" (FBI No. Q042) which was made in Jonestown on 18 November 1978. A fourth link provides a summary of the contents of the tape, and a comparison with the FBI's summary of the same tape. Differences between the transcripts are minimal."

http://jonestown.sdsu.edu/AboutJonestown/Tapes/Tapes/DeathTape/death.html

Audio tape Q042 - The Death Tape audio - 44 mins 29 secs - [disturbing, not for the "faint of heart"]

"An audio recording made on November 18, 1978, at the Peoples Temple compound in Jonestown, Guyana immediately preceding and during the mass suicide or murder of over 900 members of the cult."

http://www.archive.org/details/ptc1978-11-18.flac16

Audio tape Q875

"Out of the hundreds of audio tapes pulled out of Jonestown, Guyana following the tragic events of November 18th, 1978, one tape continues to perplex researchers. Audio tape Q875 was found along with the hundreds of other recordings that comprised the Peoples Temple audiotape collection.[1] The material on this tape is unique, consisting of four open-air recordings of radio broadcasts concerning the shooting death of Congressman Leo Ryan as well as unconfirmed reports of a mass suicide in Jonestown. The existence of the tape, however, challenges long-held beliefs about the events of November 18th, 1978, and forces researchers to seek answers to a host of questions. Fielding McGehee III, primary researcher for The Jonestown Institute, has posed five questions based on Q875 and its contents, three of which I will use as a basis for this paper.[2] McGehee's questions include: Who made the tape? Where was the tape made? Why was the tape made? Why was it left behind? What were the people doing as the tape was made? For this paper I have chose to concentrate on the "Who?" "Where?" and "Why?" questions. I will also include a brief paragraph on "When?" as well as my own questions and suppositions throughout. It should be noted that any ideas I present here are my own opinions, based on reasonable conclusions that I have drawn from the material I have access to. I am in no way presenting an infallible proof of an absolute scenario. "

http://jonestown.sdsu.edu/AboutJonestown/JonestownReport/Volume6/875dieckman.htm
 

paradox

ab intra silentio vera
Also, interesting about the Jonestown massacre, apparently not all the cult members wanted to drink the koolaid and, in fact, some tried to refuse but were "coaxed" by certain members of Jones's armed security guards who were posted around the perimeter of the meeting tent when the koolaid was dispensed to ensure no one left the meeting. At the time when televised US media were airing their anniversary specials, one or more of them featured a surviving witnesses testimony that included information about the settlement's armed security guard faction. Should be available on YouTube somewhere.
 

BunnySkull

Silver Meritorious Patron
Also, interesting about the Jonestown massacre, apparently not all the cult members wanted to drink the koolaid and, in fact, some tried to refuse but were "coaxed" by certain members of Jones's armed security guards who were posted around the perimeter of the meeting tent when the koolaid was dispensed to ensure no one left the meeting. At the time when televised US media were airing their anniversary specials, one or more of them featured a surviving witnesses testimony that included information about the settlement's armed security guard faction. Should be available on YouTube somewhere.

Coaxed, hell some were chased down and jammed in the neck with syringes. More than a few people were found with large puncture wounds indicating they were forcibly injected. Many were herded at gun point to the vats to drink, others held down and the flavour-aide poured down their throats. A true count of the suicides vs. murders will never be possible due to the fast decomposition of the hundreds bodies meant they could not do proper autopsies. (In fact I think around 7 or 8 actual, full autopsies were done - on Jim Jones, a few of his top people and then a random few members - that's it. The rest were shipped home for quick burials, some local ones by family the rest in a mass grave near SanFran.) It really was a mass suicide alongside a mass murder.

It's also rarely pointed out that Jim Jones had a wicked strategy in place to ensure people would go along with the plan. Besides all the false alarm "white nights" where they would all drink "poison" only to be told later it was all a "test." Jim ensured that when the real thing took place that children and babies went first. Meaning babies were taking (in most cases without parent permission, just marched and carried from the community nurseries) and poison squirted in their mouths. How many parents are going to watch their children die, many times in their arms, and not feel like then going ahead and taking their own lives? Once the children were dead many parents lost the will to live. He also had the poison distributed to all the invalids and sick patients without their knowledge.

Marty seems to think he knows so much about Jonestown from watching one documentary. It's laughable. If he would really sit down and research the subject I think he might find too many uncomfortable parallels with Jim Jones and LRH - not so much Miscavgie.

The Jonestown Institute website is an absolute stellar resource. The woman who runs (Rebecca Moore) it along with her husband lost her 2 sisters in Jonestown - one sister was one of Jim Jones mistresses who bore him a son and the other sister was Jim's "head nurse." She has dedicated much of her life to researching Jonestown and is also a religious studies scholar. She has written two books on the topic which are well worth reading: Understanding Jonestown & People's Temple (published in 2008) and the much harder to find "A Sympathetic History of Jonestown" which is one of the best book I have read on the subject from an inside perspective.

Anyone who is truly interested in cults, or is involved in critics movement against cults, would be remiss if they didn't study the People's Temple movement and Jonestown very closely.

In fact I've always thought with the PT/Jonestown's ethos and beliefs that had Marty been a few years younger and stumbled upon Jim Jones rather than LRH he would have been one of Jim Jone's most dedicated followers. I could easily see him playing the role of one of Jone's body guards/ enforcers - much like the role he played for CoS.

Jim Jones managed to attract some really intelligent, very well meaning people with his (at the time) beliefs in total equality (PT had majority african-american congregation by the end), caring for the poor and elderly, heavy doses of radical communism/ communal living, political activism, etc... The intellectuals in the community would be accused of "white privledge" or " bourgeois thinking" if they questioned the status quo or the group. The dedication to communistic ethos (very in vogue at the time) made unusual people ripe for group think and many became sheep to the eventual slaughter.
 

paradox

ab intra silentio vera
Absolutely, this /\ /\ /\

Didn't intend my extremely understated "coaxed" to come across offensively, was just too lazy to give it the treatment it deserved as you just did.
 

Smurf

Gold Meritorious SP
Also, interesting about the Jonestown massacre, apparently not all the cult members wanted to drink the koolaid and, in fact, some tried to refuse but were "coaxed" by certain members of Jones's armed security guards who were posted around the perimeter of the meeting tent when the koolaid was dispensed to ensure no one left the meeting.

A Jonestown survivor, Stanley Clayton estimated that no more than 200 of the 935 dead voluntarily took the cyanide-laced Flavor-Aid. Jim Jones was the clever one.

First, he surrounds the pavillion with his "Red Brigade" (armed guards), but then he orders the 167 children & babies to die first. There are disturbing audiotapes of screaming mothers having their babies forcibly taken from them before the solution was squirted down their mouths. Older children that resisted were injected with the liquid.

The psychological trauma of watching their children convulse in pain, froth at the mouth & die left many of the adults devastated and they chose to die afterwards. But the military that evacuated the bodies to Dover AFB in Delaware noted that a large number of the dead had bullet wounds. Contrary to the way it was portrayed in TV & movie recreations of the Massacre, cyanide poison is an excruciatingly painful & slow way to die. The people in Jonestown suffered horribly when they died.

Laura Johnston Kohl, a survivor has a Flickr album loaded with photos taken in Jonestown. There are several photos of a young man, Stan Gieg, who was later ordered by Jones to drive the tractor-trailer carrying the armed guards to the Port Kaituma airport which later resulted in the murder of Congressman Ryan and 6 members of his team.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/peoplestemple/

I spoke to Stan's brother in Idaho last year. He told me that his brother was shot to death shortly after driving the tractor-trailer back to Jonestown following the murder spree at the airport.
 

paradox

ab intra silentio vera
There are disturbing audiotapes of screaming mothers having their babies forcibly taken from them before the solution was squirted down their mouths. Older children that resisted were injected with the liquid.

Yes, I posted a link to the approx 45 min "Death Tape" audio earlier in the thread. Words are simply inadequate.

Jones--on this tape--has a pronounced lisp and slurring of words; it's been a couple years since I was researching into it for myself so my recall may be off, but I believe he was under heavy drug use for some period leading up to this day of Congressman Ryan's visit, with increasing paranoia over the preceding weeks, and had recently suffered a stroke (hence the speech differing significantly from his prior voice recordings). Circumstances, not too unlike a certain other popular cult leader well known in these parts. Wonder what miscarriage's final days will be like? [rhetorical question]

Interesting couple of comments from marty's blog below [emphasis added]. Not sure what "RJ" [below] is drinking

Mat Pesch | November 18, 2010 at 8:18 pm | Reply

I watched a documentary regarding Jonestown that included interviews with 3 people who had escaped through the jungle the morning of the mass suicide. These people brought up an interesting point. All the members didn’t just happily line up with their kids to drink the Koolaid.


The more hardcore members enforced the mass suicide under gun point.


Sea Org staff (especially at the Hemet compound) have been conditioned
to accept all kinds of forms of insanity. That includes imprisionment of its “leaders”, beatings, family seperation, various forms of mental and physical tourture, destruction of its own structure, etc. When viewed from the outside this sustained behavior boggles the mind.



When LRH died its members were told that he intentionally “dropped his body” (suicide) in order to reach higher spiritual levels that were fully written up and would eventually be available for all members. This announcement was met with a standing ovation.

Don’t underestimate the insane actions a cult like this is capable of. It has already gone FAR beyond our earlier imagination.


RJ | November 19, 2010 at 12:34 am | Reply


Mat,


I hate to break the party up here.


But there is also evidence that many of the Jones Town members were murdered as well as suicided.


http://jonestown.sdsu.edu/AboutJonestown/JonestownReport/Volume8/forumCarter.htm


This is confirmed by eye witness reports of people who were there and one of the best books on the whole affair is probably Mark Lane’s ‘Strongest Poison’.


Personally I’m not into hitching a ride on the most convenient explanation that serves the most rabbidly “Anti-cult” agenda.


I suggest you read the following article:
http://gbppr.dyndns.org/mil/mindcontrol/mn/mn1-98.txt


Also this is not the way to promote greater religious tolerance.


I agree with Ensifer that all great religious movements at one time or other were considered “cults”.


Please do not stoop to the same level of our enemies by creating some false dialectic or GPM!


Also there is a major difference between dropping the body because the body no longer serves its purpose and committing suicide.


Ron was 74 years old for christ sakes.


Not some spring chicken in the prime of life and it was pretty obvious to me after listening to RJ 39 that the Ol’ man was ready to slip his mortal coil.


We didn’t need some snot nosed kid to tell us how or why it happened.


He said it almost happened when he was researching OT III!


I thought as Scientologists we’d be the last to not grok that concept.
Well, I might "grok" the concept privately, as my own personal business, but held up as a model of group standards? And proudly so, as a staged, public event? I remember watching the event video as miscarriage announced it and noting the fleeting but tangible moment of shock, but that then there was not even a decent acknowledgement of group or individual grief or expression of loss allowed. Not even a time-honored moment of silence. Just a quick, awkward pause and then that phreaking, insidious eruption of the proper-and-expected doofus :clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:
 

Roan

Patron with Honors
If he (Marty) would really sit down and research the subject I think he might find too many uncomfortable parallels with Jim Jones and LRH - not so much Miscavgie.
I agree.

Here's the post I made at Marty's Place... I doubt it will make it through, but ya never know.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A sobering video choice and comparisons. Let's hope and pray that the good people still in the Sea Org don't suffer anywhere near the same fate. I don't think they will. There are certainly SOME similarities between DM and Jones, but...

A more apt comparison would be a side by side "pairing" with Jones's real life contemporary L. Ron Hubbard. Where should I begin? Well...


Both lied about being youthful members of Indian nations in their area of the country.

Both were the founders of their respective late 20th-century new religious movement.

Both were charismatic men who won admiration and followers by the force of their personality. Miscavige is not this.

Both courted politicians and celebrities as allies.

Both claimed to the re-incarnation of the Buddha and other famous men: Jones = Vladimir Lenin, while Hubbard = Cecil Rhodes.

Both saw organized groups of "enemies" in government & regular society and wrote these paranoias into the doctrines of their respective "churches."

Both, in the final analysis, were atheists.

Both used the veneer of "religion" on their new movements to mask (even from followers) what they really were preaching: Jones used Christianity to mask its actually Maoist communist gospel; Hubbard adapted the guise of modern mental self help methods to mask neo-Freudian therapeutic techniques and Crowleyite Thelemic occult processes.

Both sought refuge and "utopia" in foreign lands. Jones in Guyana. Hubbard sought to create an Aryan Scientology super-State in the white racist colony of Rhodesia.

Both committed major felonies against the U.S. Government. Hubbard burglarized and infiltrated government agencies. Jones murdered a U.S. congressman.

Both died with drugs in their system. Jones with Pentobarbital; Hubbard with Vistaril.

That's enough for now.


.
 

Kookaburra

Gold Meritorious Patron
I agree.

Here's the post I made at Marty's Place... I doubt it will make it through, but ya never know.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A sobering video choice and comparisons. Let's hope and pray that the good people still in the Sea Org don't suffer anywhere near the same fate. I don't think they will. There are certainly SOME similarities between DM and Jones, but...

A more apt comparison would be a side by side "pairing" with Jones's real life contemporary L. Ron Hubbard. Where should I begin? Well...


Both lied about being youthful members of Indian nations in their area of the country.

Both were the founders of their respective late 20th-century new religious movement.

Both were charismatic men who won admiration and followers by the force of their personality. Miscavige is not this.

Both courted politicians and celebrities as allies.

Both claimed to the re-incarnation of the Buddha and other famous men: Jones = Vladimir Lenin, while Hubbard = Cecil Rhodes.

Both saw organized groups of "enemies" in government & regular society and wrote these paranoias into the doctrines of their respective "churches."

Both, in the final analysis, were atheists.

Both used the veneer of "religion" on their new movements to mask (even from followers) what they really were preaching: Jones used Christianity to mask its actually Maoist communist gospel; Hubbard adapted the guise of modern mental self help methods to mask neo-Freudian therapeutic techniques and Crowleyite Thelemic occult processes.

Both sought refuge and "utopia" in foreign lands. Jones in Guyana. Hubbard sought to create an Aryan Scientology super-State in the white racist colony of Rhodesia.

Both committed major felonies against the U.S. Government. Hubbard burglarized and infiltrated government agencies. Jones murdered a U.S. congressman.

Both died with drugs in their system. Jones with Pentobarbital; Hubbard with Vistaril.

That's enough for now.


.

Great post, Roan, but no, it won't make it through, lol.

I never thought Scientology would end up like People's Temple, but recently I have revised that opinion. I think it could very well take place at Int base, in fact, that place is ripe for it. Miscavage is crazy enough. And egotistical enough. Even the guards are trained and tested not to flinch on the trigger. I don't think there is a single person left there who evaluates and acts on their own value system. Group agreement is enforced. The place is isolated. Like the video pointed out, lots of similarities.
 

Lurker5

Gold Meritorious Patron
Thank you

Coaxed, hell some were chased down and jammed in the neck with syringes. More than a few people were found with large puncture wounds indicating they were forcibly injected. Many were herded at gun point to the vats to drink, others held down and the flavour-aide poured down their throats. A true count of the suicides vs. murders will never be possible due to the fast decomposition of the hundreds bodies meant they could not do proper autopsies. (In fact I think around 7 or 8 actual, full autopsies were done - on Jim Jones, a few of his top people and then a random few members - that's it. The rest were shipped home for quick burials, some local ones by family the rest in a mass grave near SanFran.) It really was a mass suicide alongside a mass murder.

It's also rarely pointed out that Jim Jones had a wicked strategy in place to ensure people would go along with the plan. Besides all the false alarm "white nights" where they would all drink "poison" only to be told later it was all a "test." Jim ensured that when the real thing took place that children and babies went first. Meaning babies were taking (in most cases without parent permission, just marched and carried from the community nurseries) and poison squirted in their mouths. How many parents are going to watch their children die, many times in their arms, and not feel like then going ahead and taking their own lives? Once the children were dead many parents lost the will to live. He also had the poison distributed to all the invalids and sick patients without their knowledge.

Marty seems to think he knows so much about Jonestown from watching one documentary. It's laughable. If he would really sit down and research the subject I think he might find too many uncomfortable parallels with Jim Jones and LRH - not so much Miscavgie.

The Jonestown Institute website is an absolute stellar resource. The woman who runs (Rebecca Moore) it along with her husband lost her 2 sisters in Jonestown - one sister was one of Jim Jones mistresses who bore him a son and the other sister was Jim's "head nurse." She has dedicated much of her life to researching Jonestown and is also a religious studies scholar. She has written two books on the topic which are well worth reading: Understanding Jonestown & People's Temple (published in 2008) and the much harder to find "A Sympathetic History of Jonestown" which is one of the best book I have read on the subject from an inside perspective.

Anyone who is truly interested in cults, or is involved in critics movement against cults, would be remiss if they didn't study the People's Temple movement and Jonestown very closely.

In fact I've always thought with the PT/Jonestown's ethos and beliefs that had Marty been a few years younger and stumbled upon Jim Jones rather than LRH he would have been one of Jim Jone's most dedicated followers. I could easily see him playing the role of one of Jone's body guards/ enforcers - much like the role he played for CoS.

Jim Jones managed to attract some really intelligent, very well meaning people with his (at the time) beliefs in total equality (PT had majority african-american congregation by the end), caring for the poor and elderly, heavy doses of radical communism/ communal living, political activism, etc... The intellectuals in the community would be accused of "white privledge" or " bourgeois thinking" if they questioned the status quo or the group. The dedication to communistic ethos (very in vogue at the time) made unusual people ripe for group think and many became sheep to the eventual slaughter.

Thank you, BunnySkull, for this important information. :yes: :clap:

This is a great thread - Thank you, everyone, for all this important info. :bravo:
 

OHTEEATE

Silver Meritorious Patron
Jonestown

After Jonestown happened, there was a general "Buzz" going around among Scientologists as I recall, which seemed to pin the blame on the US Army, for running a mass drugging experiment on the Jonestown population. I think I got this from Tom Whittle at Freedom magazine. They ran stories about it at the time, with as much as they could document. After seeing the documentary and listening to the tape of Jim Jones ordering the drink to be given to the babies, then the adults, I believe it was his straightforward genocidal insanity.
One reason Donna and I left the Sea Org quickly, was that we realized how cut off we really were, from help if we were put out of the way for any space of time. We had no cell phones or internet access.(that they knew of). Donna hid a cell phone in her car, just in case. Mine was confiscated out of my dresser drawer, and returned months after we left. Outside connections were discouraged. Outgoing mail was all censored, and all incoming mail was read and only allowed through if "not entheta". They monitored any residual bills to make sure they were handled .
Leo Ryan would have taken a few people back with him, and that would have been it. Jim Jones was looking for an excuse to destroy his group.
You have to wonder where on the scale DM is at the moment, and at what point does he decide everybody has to move on to the next level(die)? If the FBI makes a move, it needs to remove him physically, before he gives that order.
 

Sindy

Crusader
I agree.

Here's the post I made at Marty's Place... I doubt it will make it through, but ya never know.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A sobering video choice and comparisons. Let's hope and pray that the good people still in the Sea Org don't suffer anywhere near the same fate. I don't think they will. There are certainly SOME similarities between DM and Jones, but...

A more apt comparison would be a side by side "pairing" with Jones's real life contemporary L. Ron Hubbard. Where should I begin? Well...


Both lied about being youthful members of Indian nations in their area of the country.

Both were the founders of their respective late 20th-century new religious movement.

Both were charismatic men who won admiration and followers by the force of their personality. Miscavige is not this.

Both courted politicians and celebrities as allies.

Both claimed to the re-incarnation of the Buddha and other famous men: Jones = Vladimir Lenin, while Hubbard = Cecil Rhodes.

Both saw organized groups of "enemies" in government & regular society and wrote these paranoias into the doctrines of their respective "churches."

Both, in the final analysis, were atheists.

Both used the veneer of "religion" on their new movements to mask (even from followers) what they really were preaching: Jones used Christianity to mask its actually Maoist communist gospel; Hubbard adapted the guise of modern mental self help methods to mask neo-Freudian therapeutic techniques and Crowleyite Thelemic occult processes.

Both sought refuge and "utopia" in foreign lands. Jones in Guyana. Hubbard sought to create an Aryan Scientology super-State in the white racist colony of Rhodesia.

Both committed major felonies against the U.S. Government. Hubbard burglarized and infiltrated government agencies. Jones murdered a U.S. congressman.

Both died with drugs in their system. Jones with Pentobarbital; Hubbard with Vistaril.

That's enough for now.


.

:goodposting:
 

Auditor's Toad

Clear as Mud
I agree.

Here's the post I made at Marty's Place... I doubt it will make it through, but ya never know.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A sobering video choice and comparisons. Let's hope and pray that the good people still in the Sea Org don't suffer anywhere near the same fate. I don't think they will. There are certainly SOME similarities between DM and Jones, but...

A more apt comparison would be a side by side "pairing" with Jones's real life contemporary L. Ron Hubbard. Where should I begin? Well...


Both lied about being youthful members of Indian nations in their area of the country.

Both were the founders of their respective late 20th-century new religious movement.

Both were charismatic men who won admiration and followers by the force of their personality. Miscavige is not this.

Both courted politicians and celebrities as allies.

Both claimed to the re-incarnation of the Buddha and other famous men: Jones = Vladimir Lenin, while Hubbard = Cecil Rhodes.

Both saw organized groups of "enemies" in government & regular society and wrote these paranoias into the doctrines of their respective "churches."

Both, in the final analysis, were atheists.

Both used the veneer of "religion" on their new movements to mask (even from followers) what they really were preaching: Jones used Christianity to mask its actually Maoist communist gospel; Hubbard adapted the guise of modern mental self help methods to mask neo-Freudian therapeutic techniques and Crowleyite Thelemic occult processes.

Both sought refuge and "utopia" in foreign lands. Jones in Guyana. Hubbard sought to create an Aryan Scientology super-State in the white racist colony of Rhodesia.

Both committed major felonies against the U.S. Government. Hubbard burglarized and infiltrated government agencies. Jones murdered a U.S. congressman.

Both died with drugs in their system. Jones with Pentobarbital; Hubbard with Vistaril.

That's enough for now.


.

All very true. And, yes, DM lacks any of the capabilities of being in that league of scam artist but DM makes the grade on ego manic paranoid mental case.

DM is using the policies of LRH to create hos own realm of terror.

LRH was too self centered and, apparently, greedy to have medical and dental coverage for the SO. So how many of the SO have died and will die of sheer neglect?

LRH created and used the RPF to punish harshly. using the RPF as punishment how many does DM completely break into a shadow of their former
selves?

DM is a little coward that lacks the courage to just up and outright kill people but he has no problem with physical abuse ( watch that escalate to torture in the coming years ) no problem with long confinement ( watch that become life sentences ) and even more people driven insane and left to die.

DM has a slime ball sleazy way of killing off our friends. He is incapable of stopping himself. Will it ever stop? Will he ever be stopped?

Time for that criminal bastard to go ro jail.

Somebody has the facts that will put him there.
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
Does anybody remember this interview with Mike Rinder referring to the Jim Jones cult as a "main stream christian church"?

http://www.lermanet.com/house/rinder-jonestown.wmv

Sure :)

It'd be great to post it to MartyWorld, but, probably a futile effort :)

Speaking of which though, one might ask *why* Marty would be posting such potentially dangerous 'memorials' to his tame blog, but, it's a pretty obvious case of 'preemptive strike'. Much like the 'approved' usage of 'Kool Aid Drinkers' to refer to 'still in' Church of Miscavologists.

He thinks it's clever to co-opt the obvious criticisms, such as comparisons to Jonestown for Scientology while specifying that it only applies to the 'Church' under miscavige.

Silly of course, but, apparently it's working on the gushers. Even one with a tale of first hearing about Jonestown and recognizing the similarities, long *before* Miscavige. In 1978. But, even the person posting that is blind to the anachronism.

Kool Aid Drinkers indeed.

Zinj
 

Auditor's Toad

Clear as Mud
Back to old Ron... he causatively dropped his body to go do research

Or..... he blew his brains out.

One is messier but both really are suicide aren't they?

I mean the old boy killed himself no matter how it is sliced - is that not true?

They is the truth so difficult for scios and Xscios to face?
 
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