Missing Flag

[exsomessenger]

unlike some, who seem to just flip a switch and hate everything.

I tend to look at the past (mby with rose colored glasses.) but I had a lot of firsts at flag and to look back at that time with hate and disgust would be doing an injustice to myself. I guess one mans hell can be anothers heaven. that is what makes this world such a wonderful place. the fact that we all have different views and outlooks is a good thing.

If all the haters really had an honest look at their time inthe sea org. I would be willing to bet that they could find one thing that they could take away that is positive. If there is no will to look then that it's self speaks volumes.

 

[exsomessenger]

well, Al Qaeda are recruiting. And there are always various militias on the look out for those who tend toward the fanatical...

dood, sounds like you need to stop at one cup of coffee. We shed our blood together on the rugby field, while we were in the Sea Org. Is that something you might miss? I get the Fuck them all and anyone who says anything positive BUT Give me A Fing Break.

 

[IMMORTAL]

It's interesting to consider the concept of missing Flag visits. During my first Flag visits, it was exciting, an unknown adventure and the staff were very service oriented compared to most of the outside world and service was usually with a smile. That's what I saw then, anyway.

As time wore on and on, it became real drudgery to consider going back again for my 6 months check, if I could even afford it. When I think about it, I was trying to make my visits to Flag exciting again like they were in the beginning. I would try to create that feeling within myself so I could be happy about it.

Thinking back on it, it was a very uncomfortable time because it was such an inner struggle to try to stay happy by trying to ignore all the unhappy SO staff and unhappy public who were struggling with the money and time issues just like me. Trying to reconcile the out points that I observed with policy not being applied, staff not getting their enhancement time or auditing or getting their review so they could be on the level.

After a solo session, giving an exam and having the examiner tell me that he wasn't happy being on staff. Point blank admitting it to me. Of course, having to withdraw it immediately because the guy's on video. I've often wondered what happened to him over that.

Trying to keep a happy face on while waiting for the C/S to give okay to leave. Sitting in the lobby waiting for the van to the airport to hurry up and arrive so I could jump on it with my luggage and leave for another 6 months. Trying to hurry up the van leaving the base before the C/S changes his mind and sends his goons chasing after me to get me to come back. Sitting at the airport, waiting for the plane to arrive and not feeling safe again until that plane leaves the ground and I'm headed home.

Looking back on it, it's hard to believe I put up with it all as long as I did. No, I don't miss Flag. It was all an illusion to me.

 

[Jquepublic]

unlike some, who seem to just flip a switch and hate everything.

I tend to look at the past (mby with rose colored glasses.) but I had a lot of firsts at flag and to look back at that time with hate and disgust would be doing an injustice to myself. I guess one mans hell can be anothers heaven. that is what makes this world such a wonderful place. the fact that we all have different views and outlooks is a good thing.

If all the haters really had an honest look at their time inthe sea org. I would be willing to bet that they could find one thing that they could take away that is positive. If there is no will to look then that it's self speaks volumes.

I feel like I need to integrate some of those positives, personally. I spent a few years denying that Scientology even existed in my life. But that's a decade of my life, just wasted, if I take that approach. I feel that healing, for me, means accepting, integrating, acknowledging what was good without minimizing what was bad about the experience - just a straight up, honest assessment of who I was when I went into Scientology and who I was when I came out and what events along the way changed me. I changed in a million ways, not all of them bad.

 

[Mick Wenlock]

dood, sounds like you need to stop at one cup of coffee. We shed our blood together on the rugby field, while we were in the Sea Org. Is that something you might miss? I get the Fuck them all and anyone who says anything positive BUT Give me A Fing Break.

well dude you may want to grab a sense of humor. sheesh thought you were more hardcore than this.

 

[exsomessenger]

well dude you may want to grab a sense of humor. sheesh thought you were more hardcore than this.

does funny looking count? oh and please tell me how this does not make me "hard core." whatever that means? LMAO. my eyes are wide open pal.

 

[TG1]

First ... hi, Illusion. I've missed your posts. Nice to see the one above.

Now, on to Flag.

I went to Flag only once, to do OT4. I hated the entire experience. There's nothing about it I enjoyed. Not the level, the tech, the service, the food, the accommodations, the smells, the housekeeping -- nothing. It was third-rate all the way.

YMMV.

BTW, my OT4 "attest" was: This is ridiculous. I'm not doing any more of this. Not interested.

The C/S's response was: Thank you. You have completed OT4. Your originations will be dealt with on OT 5.

I was determined never to return. And didn't.

Actually, I'm not really complaining.

TG1

 

[Disinfected]

I know what you mean. I was AOLA public, started going there for the "Wollersheim campaign" in 1986 and went back many times over the next 20 years or so. Didn't get very far, just dumped a ton of cash.

But I always liked going there. LA Rose's great breakfast. New York George's before it closed. House of Pies. Hey, I like breakfast

disinfected

 

[Mick Wenlock]

unlike some, who seem to just flip a switch and hate everything.

I tend to look at the past (mby with rose colored glasses.) but I had a lot of firsts at flag and to look back at that time with hate and disgust would be doing an injustice to myself. I guess one mans hell can be anothers heaven. that is what makes this world such a wonderful place. the fact that we all have different views and outlooks is a good thing.

If all the haters really had an honest look at their time inthe sea org. I would be willing to bet that they could find one thing that they could take away that is positive. If there is no will to look then that it's self speaks volumes.

ah the haters!! Oh those terrible haters.

I am kind of concerned - people who thought the Sea Org was a totalitarian round of crap and say so are "haters"? Seriously?

Well OK let us see about differentiating some things - see if that causes you to step back for a minute.

What about the Sea Org was bad? Well - the Sea Org. It was organization founded by a psychotic manipulative cult leader it abused (and abuses) it's members cos thats what it was designed to do.

Now let me see - were there things that happened in the 13 years I was in the SO that I liked?

Yes indeed - and none of them had anything to do with Scientology. I met and got married to my wife who is the greatest thing that happened to me in or out of the SEa Org. My son was born another wonderful and humbling experience. We had one or two roaringly good parties.

Now here's something that should resonate - one of my fondest memories is getting my thigh heavily bruised in a great rugby tackle.

Going to see Star Wars at Grauman's Chinese Theater with Mike Rinder after the Mission to AOLA.

Getting to know people like Guillaume and Jens and Vanella and Christine and Tommy Jonnson, Rae Mathieson, Chuck Beatty, Mick Davies, Missy, BvH, John Nelson, Ivan Watson, Lena Moatty, Henri Breuer, Thierry Pradat, Denis Seignez, Didier Cocquot, Letty, Leif, Mike Rinder, Noel, PaulThe entire Cusworth clan and tons more. I met some very good people. (sudden visions of Romper Room LOL)

But you got all bent out of shape because I seized on your fatuous comment about being in a group of people who were out to save/change the world. Well let me explain why I think that was the worst thing to have said.

It is the big con. We ALL got sucked into as people get sucked into other nasty and vicious cults and organizations. The appeal to a certain segment of society is incredibly strong. And we were used.

I hope you can see the irony.

Maybe you miss being part of a group hell bent on totalitarian control of people. I, for one, do not.

And if you hunger for that same feeling then maybe you might need to re-examine what you got out of the experience. Because it is the EXACT same feeling that fanatics everywhere have.

I KNOW you are a good friend and a good person. I just think you have your head up your arse on this.

 

[The Anabaptist Jacques]

ah the haters!! Oh those terrible haters.

I am kind of concerned - people who thought the Sea Org was a totalitarian round of crap and say so are "haters"? Seriously?

Well OK let us see about differentiating some things - see if that causes you to step back for a minute.

What about the Sea Org was bad? Well - the Sea Org. It was organization founded by a psychotic manipulative cult leader it abused (and abuses) it's members cos thats what it was designed to do.

Now let me see - were there things that happened in the 13 years I was in the SO that I liked?

Yes indeed - and none of them had anything to do with Scientology. I met and got married to my wife who is the greatest thing that happened to me in or out of the SEa Org. My son was born another wonderful and humbling experience. We had one or two roaringly good parties.

Now here's something that should resonate - one of my fondest memories is getting my thigh heavily bruised in a great rugby tackle.

Going to see Star Wars at Grauman's Chinese Theater with Mike Rinder after the Mission to AOLA.

Getting to know people like Guillaume and Jens and Vanella and Christine and Tommy Jonnson, Rae Mathieson, Chuck Beatty, Mick Davies, Missy, BvH, John Nelson, Ivan Watson, Lena Moatty, Henri Breuer, Thierry Pradat, Denis Seignez, Didier Cocquot, Letty, Leif, Mike Rinder, Noel, PaulThe entire Cusworth clan and tons more. I met some very good people. (sudden visions of Romper Room LOL)

But you got all bent out of shape because I seized on your fatuous comment about being in a group of people who were out to save/change the world. Well let me explain why I think that was the worst thing to have said.

It is the big con. We ALL got sucked into as people get sucked into other nasty and vicious cults and organizations. The appeal to a certain segment of society is incredibly strong. And we were used.

I hope you can see the irony.

Maybe you miss being part of a group hell bent on totalitarian control of people. I, for one, do not.

And if you hunger for that same feeling then maybe you might need to re-examine what you got out of the experience. Because it is the EXACT same feeling that fanatics everywhere have.

I KNOW you are a good friend and a good person. I just think you have your head up your arse on this.

I would say not so fast. Yeah we were used.

I was never in the Sea Org but at FCDC. (And by the way, we never liked you guys that came on mission.)

But the way I see it is that everything I did I did because I decided to do it.

And the realy valuable lesson I got from Scientology is that I can be fooled, and used, and manipulated. And even take on an identity that is not really me.

From all this I realized that I could have just as easily been a Nazi, or a Bolshevik, or a Jacobin, of a Grand Inquisitor.

Everyone thinks they are doing the right thing.

The real guts is to be able to see that you are not.

And there are a lot of people running around this world screwing it up all in the name of saving it.

I would still like to see the world a better place.

But I know now that the proof is in the pudding, not in the purpose.

And I wouldn't change that knowledge for anything.

Socrates said "The unexamined life is not worth living."

All the crap I went through was worth it because I now have arrived at a life worth living.

"It is better to be a Socrates dissatisfied than a fool satisfied."--J. S. Mill.

Now I am a dissastisfied Socrates. But that is better than being the fool that I was.

The Anabaptist Jacques

 

[exsomessenger]

ah the haters!! Oh those terrible haters.

I am kind of concerned - people who thought the Sea Org was a totalitarian round of crap and say so are "haters"? Seriously?

Well OK let us see about differentiating some things - see if that causes you to step back for a minute.

What about the Sea Org was bad? Well - the Sea Org. It was organization founded by a psychotic manipulative cult leader it abused (and abuses) it's members cos thats what it was designed to do.

Now let me see - were there things that happened in the 13 years I was in the SO that I liked?

Yes indeed - and none of them had anything to do with Scientology. I met and got married to my wife who is the greatest thing that happened to me in or out of the SEa Org. My son was born another wonderful and humbling experience. We had one or two roaringly good parties.

Now here's something that should resonate - one of my fondest memories is getting my thigh heavily bruised in a great rugby tackle.

Going to see Star Wars at Grauman's Chinese Theater with Mike Rinder after the Mission to AOLA.

Getting to know people like Guillaume and Jens and Vanella and Christine and Tommy Jonnson, Rae Mathieson, Chuck Beatty, Mick Davies, Missy, BvH, John Nelson, Ivan Watson, Lena Moatty, Henri Breuer, Thierry Pradat, Denis Seignez, Didier Cocquot, Letty, Leif, Mike Rinder, Noel, PaulThe entire Cusworth clan and tons more. I met some very good people. (sudden visions of Romper Room LOL)

But you got all bent out of shape because I seized on your fatuous comment about being in a group of people who were out to save/change the world. Well let me explain why I think that was the worst thing to have said.

It is the big con. We ALL got sucked into as people get sucked into other nasty and vicious cults and organizations. The appeal to a certain segment of society is incredibly strong. And we were used.

I hope you can see the irony.

Maybe you miss being part of a group hell bent on totalitarian control of people. I, for one, do not.

And if you hunger for that same feeling then maybe you might need to re-examine what you got out of the experience. Because it is the EXACT same feeling that fanatics everywhere have.

I KNOW you are a good friend and a good person. I just think you have your head up your arse on this.

I hear you completly Mick. I was really just answering a thread on a blog site that was labled missing flag. sorta like the spirit of the law instead of the letter is how I thought my comments would be taken. I was never upset/ It would seem that you came in like a tun of bricks barking things about this and that assuming that and the other.

You will all ways be my mate.

cheers and never a hard feeling.

I was sent to flag and the Sea Org at 14. It was not my ruin to join the sea org. I was made to sign up as punishment for skipping course, one too many times, by my father. He wanted me to go str8 to the RPF once I got to flag. When he found out that was not possible and after asking if I could mby be sent to the DPF. he settled for making me sign a billion year contract to the sea org and sending me to the EPF.

 

[Kutta]

unlike some, who seem to just flip a switch and hate everything.

I tend to look at the past (mby with rose colored glasses.) but I had a lot of firsts at flag and to look back at that time with hate and disgust would be doing an injustice to myself. I guess one mans hell can be anothers heaven. that is what makes this world such a wonderful place. the fact that we all have different views and outlooks is a good thing.

If all the haters really had an honest look at their time inthe sea org. I would be willing to bet that they could find one thing that they could take away that is positive. If there is no will to look then that it's self speaks volumes.

The above appears to be directed at me, and probably some others. This is my response:

Don't you dare label me a hater. Of course, there were one or two things about Flag that were okay. The food was good, and I got to put one across the Ethics Officer and take time to go to the beach and I got a sun tan.

But I would be doing myself a disfavour if I didn't say how horrible my experience was. I would be telling a lie. I would not be being honest.

There were a multitude of things about my Flag experience that were truly, truly horrible, and as I look back they cancel out the positives by a massive margin. You don't know the half of it.

At no time in my rant did I challenge others' view of the place. Please allow me to truthfully express mine and refrain from putting a 'hate' label on me.

 

[exsomessenger]

The above appears to be directed at me, and probably some others. This is my response:

Don't you dare label me a hater. Of course, there were one or two things about Flag that were okay. The food was good, and I got to put one across the Ethics Officer and take time to go to the beach and I got a sun tan.

But I would be doing myself a disfavour if I didn't say how horrible my experience was. I would be telling a lie. I would not be being honest.

There were a multitude of things about my Flag experience that were truly, truly horrible, and as I look back they cancel out the positives by a massive margin. You don't know the half of it.

At no time in my rant did I challenge others' view of the place. Please allow me to truthfully express mine and refrain from putting a 'hate' label on me.

Hater: A person that simply cannot be happy for another person's success. So rather than be happy they make a point of exposing a flaw in that person.

Hating, the result of being a hater, is not exactly jealousy. The hater doesnt really want to be the person he or she hates, rather the hater wants to knock somelse down a notch.



I think I just threw up in my mouth.

If this is what makes you happy and you feel like you can only express yourself in the guise of defending. then have at it.

Yea i was out to get you WTF! YES I DO KNOW THE HALF OF IT. I was there as well. In the Sea Org day in and day out. Is there more bad then good. FUCK YES. this however was a thread that said what if anything did you miss about flag. FFS

all I was saying is people can be fanatical in how they are critical as well. it is much more easy to just blanket hate everything about scientology and flag then to really look at the whole picture. I choose to look at the glass being half full. Stay thirsty my friend.

 

[The Anabaptist Jacques]

The glass is half full, but with Koolaide.

Whatever anyones feelings are about somethiing will change with time.

Some dislike the past more, some see some value in it.

We all had similar experiences, but none of us have the same memories.

It is just as OK to hate it as it is to have fond memories of it.

The Anabaptist Jacques

 

[Mick Wenlock]

I hear you completly Mick. I was really just answering a thread on a blog site that was labled missing flag. sorta like the spirit of the law instead of the letter is how I thought my comments would be taken. I was never upset/ It would seem that you came in like a tun of bricks barking things about this and that assuming that and the other.

You will all ways be my mate.

cheers and never a hard feeling.

I was sent to flag and the Sea Org at 14. It was not my ruin to join the sea org. I was made to sign up as punishment for skipping course, one too many times, by my father. He wanted me to go str8 to the RPF once I got to flag. When he found out that was not possible and after asking if I could mby be sent to the DPF. he settled for making me sign a billion year contract to the sea org and sending me to the EPF.

well it's time to get to the pub and sink a few.



Rugby players, gotta love 'em.

 

[exsomessenger]

The glass is half full, but with Koolaide.

Whatever anyones feelings are about somethiing will change with time.

Some dislike the past more, some see some value in it.

We all had similar experiences, but none of us have the same memories.

It is just as OK to hate it as it is to have fond memories of it.

The Anabaptist Jacques

the fisrt sentence does not help at all. and that is what I was saying. I am not a FUCKING SCIENTOLOGIST.

Dont you fucks get it. Scientology has ruined my life and continues to this day. they took my wife, my family and all my friends. I come here to have a good time and post to a thread now and then. all this other shite is for the birds. and I will not be a part of it any longer. look at the history of this thread it was going fine till it was derailed. are there threads about how fucking bad scientology is and how we all hated it. yes there are. this was not one of them. I was simply contributing to this thread. FFS.

Now I see why I stay away more then I take part. You guys deserve eachother. :dancer:

 

[The Anabaptist Jacques]

the fisrt sentence does not help at all. and that is what I was saying. I am not a FUCKING SCIENTOLOGIST.

Dont you fucks get it. Scientology has ruined my life and continues to this day. they took my wife, my family and all my friends. I come here to have a good time and post to a thread now and then. all this other shite is for the birds. and I will not be a part of it any longer. look at the history of this thread it was going fine till it was derailed. are there threads about how fucking bad scientology is and how we all hated it. yes there are. this was not one of them. I was simply contributing to this thread. FFS.

Now I see why I stay away more then I take part. You guys deserve eachother. :dancer:

I really don't get what you are upset about.

The Anabaptist Jacques

 

[xseaorguk]

I miss Flag "the mecca of technical purrrrefction" like.....ummm...let me think.....
how can I say...........
Yes I have it!

Like a hole in the head

 

[Gottabrain]

There used to be this health food store. right across from the WB, that made the best smoothies. I miss the smoothies.

I miss waking up Ron Norton in the middle of the night to inform him that we were ripping people out of his org for CMO missions.

I miss walking to the FH, from the WB, and having the rain chase you there.

I do not miss the Class A uniform but really did not mind the whites (minus the hat.)

I miss goofing off durring CSP and listening to Led zepplin backwards to try and hear the secret message. Only to then wonder if I was somehow commiting an overt? ( wait! I do not miss that)

I miss hanging out in the missionaire unit and making up rap songs.

I miss staying up for so many days that you felt like " this is what it must feel like to be on drugs." (5$ to the first person who can tell me wtf I just said)

I miss being apart of a group that all shared a purpose to make a better world.

Ex

I understand. You spent your childhood there and many of these moments were the happiness of seeing the world and experiencing it as a child would.

On the last bit, yes, that group thing was really addictive in its way. A shame we were all conned and were actually pulling people away from doing what they should be doing in their lives rather than making a better world.

I found that just about anything in the medical or counseling professions has the same sort of "esprit de corps" group thing. I found my niche caring for the elderly and disabled, but there are also volunteer groups and my brother, who worked as a contractor in the Middle East as an air traffic controller, also experienced that close-knit group thing. It's not limited to Flag or the SO at all, and you get to make good money, eat and sleep decently most of the time (not always well, boy, the med profession has some weird shifts and hours), travel and enjoy like-minded people.

Maybe you can use what you enjoyed as indications of what you should be doing in your life now. Jacque said something like that.

 

[Commander Birdsong]

I have to admit that I miss FCDC the way it was when I got in.

In truth, the conditions were horrible, there was constant injustice, but I loved the smell of all hands at 3 o'clock in the morning.

It felt very moral doing what I thought was right despite the poor conditions.

But I bet the members of the Ku Klux Klan feel the same way too.

It was a lesson. It was life. I have no regrets.

The Anabaptist Jacques

yeah, i miss fcdc too and i was very happy to find this board and the fcdc thread and all those people i had continued to love all these years

i never drank that koolaid. i never believed we had THE ANSWER! but i did and do think auditor training and auditing are very good things