Missing Flag

[The Anabaptist Jacques]

yeah, i miss fcdc too and i was very happy to find this board and the fcdc thread and all those people i had continued to love all these years

i never drank that koolaid. i never believed we had THE ANSWER! but i did and do think auditor training and auditing are very good things

It was cool, wasn't it.

Good memories of difficult times and bad things.

And it was fun. Amazing.

The Anabaptist Jacques

 

[Mimsey Borogrove]

Don't you fucks get it. Scientology has ruined my life and continues to this day. they took my wife, my family and all my friends. I come here to have a good time and post to a thread now and then. all this other shite is for the birds. and I will not be a part of it any longer. look at the history of this thread it was going fine till it was derailed. are there threads about how fucking bad scientology is and how we all hated it. yes there are. this was not one of them. I was simply contributing to this thread. FFS.

Yes, xso - you are right - this thread is about what you missed, what you liked, what you strived for that has since evaporated and I appreciate your comments.

I miss many of the staff - like Barb Nelson, Hy Levy (I know, he split) my auditors, the course supes, Brandon the MLO, even Annie White and wazzer name the cute redhead IAS reg. Even most of the MAA's They are all good hearted people on a mission - I can't fault them that they were conned like I was, and they didn't have a hope in hell of pulling it off. Even Hubbard - I liked hearing his tapes, I liked giving and getting auditing, but I hate like hell he turned out to be a S**t. I know there were crappy times and the FH was hot as hell at night in the summer when I was tossing and turning, trying to get to sleep for that first up session...

Once, when I was outer org staff, I had bought into all of Flag's PR, and had put it on a pedestal - And Minty Alexander came to our org doing an L's event - I started yammering about how wonderful it must be to be there and she put me straight with "It's just like any other org." And so it was...

Mimsey

 

[IMMORTAL]

........wazzer name the cute redhead IAS reg. ...

Mimsey

Mimsey, this cute redhead IAS reg was named Missy something. She is no longer SO. Last I knew, she was still going around fundraising for the IAS though.

 

[Lulu Belle]

I was sent to flag and the Sea Org at 14. It was not my ruin to join the sea org. I was made to sign up as punishment for skipping course, one too many times, by my father. He wanted me to go str8 to the RPF once I got to flag. When he found out that was not possible and after asking if I could mby be sent to the DPF. he settled for making me sign a billion year contract to the sea org and sending me to the EPF.

Hey, I don't know your story but to me this is in the "child abuse" arena.

What the hell is wrong with your father, actually wanting to send you to the RPF?

 

[Terril park]

well it's time to get to the pub and sink a few.

Despite our different viewpoints would love to do that again

Rugby players, gotta love 'em.

Did that too.

 

[Ogsonofgroo]

On topic to OP~ Even as a 'never-in' I can fully understand the sentiment of missing things within a system that may not be optimal. Pretty much anywhere one ends up for an amount of time (of course there are exceptions, all depends on the individual) can have its 'good times' etc.
Hell, I spent over a decade in a hell-hole working my ass off (sawmill), it was a horror, and a nasty place.... BUT~ there were good people, some good times, comradary/bonding/laughter, we made the best of it, were paid well, but holey jebus cripes what a fucking cess pool we were swimming in.
When I finally escaped in the late 80's one thing I did not have to contend with was losing my old friends, that always remained even though the level of contact (frequency) was diminished because I went onto other jobs, but, there were things I missed about being part of the group, whether it was commiseration within a group of fellow sufferers, standing up despite the odds, not sure, but part of me missed being there.
Unlike the cult, being in a production situation that actually made stuff, produced products that you could touch/see/feel, and make money too, was a good feeling~ we harboured and laboured under no illusions.
I'm getting a bit long on this post, maybe even lost my original point a tad, but the bottom line is, even old Nazis I have known found something they missed in the horrors they went through, much the same things (yeah Godwining, fits though).
I guess what I am trying to say is, that pretty much no matter where a person ends up, you will try to make the best of it, and consequently have some good memories.
|Missing stuff, yeh, kinda like I miss the good times with my (too many) ex's, it doesn't cover the over-all picture though.

I hope I have made some sense here as one of the feelings I find myself in when reading people lauding the 'good ol' days of Cos' and missing stuff within the cult is, like, sadness for the person.... maybe because I fear for them being pulled back into the vortex of abstraction again and am empathic about it or something...

end of blabbing post, sorry if it's somewhat de-rail.

to All! and especially to you Mimsy, I can hear the confliction in your words and hope the very best of figuring things out for ya and a great life ahead blah-blah

Ogs ( )

 

[Mimsey Borogrove]

Mimsey, this cute redhead IAS reg was named Missy something.

Oh Yes! Michelle! Such good times we had playing cat and mouse, or hide and seek (with my wallet). God, she could sell snow to an Eskimo and have them like it. Oh Hey, Hi Immortal! It's nice to see you here again. We're having spring here in LA - our garden's growing - it's looking like a nice warm but not too hot spring once again. I love your avatar - such a cool looking galaxy. I have always loved astronomy and space crap and SF. Too cool.

Best,

Mimsey

 

[IMMORTAL]

Oh Yes! Michelle! Such good times we had playing cat and mouse, or hide and seek (with my wallet). God, she could sell snow to an Eskimo and have them like it. Oh Hey, Hi Immortal! It's nice to see you here again. We're having spring here in LA - our garden's growing - it's looking like a nice warm but not too hot spring once again. I love your avatar - such a cool looking galaxy. I have always loved astronomy and space crap and SF. Too cool.

Best,

Mimsey

Mims, that sounds lovely. I will have to say I know what you mean about the friends we made of the staff there. I felt so bad for Barb Nelson. The last time I saw her she wasn't a D of P anymore and was doing some kind of admin post in the Solo NOTS area. She looked horrible. She's one who had needed a review for years to get back on the level. I liked most of the staff that I met at FSO and FSSO. I didn't know how bad they had it until after I came here and other sites and discovered what their life was really like.

 

[Mimsey Borogrove]

Yeah, Immortal, I have seen her. I know what you are talking about - thin as a rail, dark, sunken eyes. It's the long hours and the stress they put people through there. I've gotten calls from her and others at 10 or 11 and later LA time - how in the hell they function is beyond me. There are times I can't believe the cruelty they do to each other in the name of clearing the planet. That I appreciate her dedication, is obvious, but how I wish she was beyond their thrall.

I can understand people on this board saying how they didn't like Flag etc, but they forget the good hearted people there, the saints being wasted. I hope she wakes up some day and walks out the door.

Mimsey

 

[Miss Pert]

Miss Flag???? I guess it depends which Flag you're talking about. The first time I went there was for a SMI convention and the trip was paid for by the ED of the Leichhardt Mission in Sydney. I can honestly say I had a nice time but that was only because I was treated like a public and because I was part of the convention and had no time for other courses there was no pressure from anyone to get me to do anything else. The other plus was that the ED owned a condo in Clearwater so I didn't have to stay at the Fort Harrison and I got to walk in everyday.

My next visit to Flag, as an OOT, was not so pleasant and I can't really say I miss it at all, in fact in a lot of aspects it was just how Kutta expressed it, it really sucked. The things I miss from that time are more the people I met and friends I made, most of whom I cannot have contact with now because I'm an evil SP. I do not miss the atrocious fatty food, the lies and deceit (sorry "acceptable truths") of some of the sups and execs to get what they want from you, the sleep deprivation, the restriction of external contact, the "if you don't agree with it then you must have an m/u or an overt," the "you will eat in the mess hall with everyone else and I don't care if you're not eating the food from there," etc, etc, etc.

Oh, one thing I do miss about the OOT program is breaking the rules, that was fun when I didn't get caught.

The other thing I miss about my time over there and it has nothing to do with Flag, I believe I could see these thing without having to endure spending time in a rundown ghost town like Clearwater, is seeing different wildlife whilst there. From vultures & horseshoe crabs through to skimmers, a black racer snake (just like on one of the EM drills list) and the little garden lizards, which were like little iguanas (our little garden lizards are skinks, not nearly as prehistoric looking).

I can't say I miss Flag but there are things that I never would have experienced if I hadn't gone and it is those things that make me feel that my time there wasn't totally wasted.

 

[Kutta]

Yes, thank you Miss Pert for reminding me, I had forgotten that I liked the flamingoes. And I saw a twister or whatever they are called, out at sea. Had never seen either of those before. They were both really cool.

 

[Panda Termint]

Mims, that sounds lovely. I will have to say I know what you mean about the friends we made of the staff there. I felt so bad for Barb Nelson. The last time I saw her she wasn't a D of P anymore and was doing some kind of admin post in the Solo NOTS area. She looked horrible. She's one who had needed a review for years to get back on the level. I liked most of the staff that I met at FSO and FSSO. I didn't know how bad they had it until after I came here and other sites and discovered what their life was really like.

Yes. I love Barb too, she was a wonderful D of P. I was shocked when I last saw her; behind the "brave face" she looked defeated, beaten and cowed by her circumstances.

Fuck RTC and the Source they rode in on!

 

[Kookaburra]

There used to be this health food store. right across from the WB, that made the best smoothies. I miss the smoothies.

I miss waking up Ron Norton in the middle of the night to inform him that we were ripping people out of his org for CMO missions.

I miss walking to the FH, from the WB, and having the rain chase you there.

I do not miss the Class A uniform but really did not mind the whites (minus the hat.)

I miss goofing off durring CSP and listening to Led zepplin backwards to try and hear the secret message. Only to then wonder if I was somehow commiting an overt? ( wait! I do not miss that)

I miss hanging out in the missionaire unit and making up rap songs.

I miss staying up for so many days that you felt like " this is what it must feel like to be on drugs." (5$ to the first person who can tell me wtf I just said)

I miss being apart of a group that all shared a purpose to make a better world.

Ex

I think the making of friends and the shared experiences are what makes ANY place memorable.

I was at Flag in the 70's as an OOT. Some good, some bad. Tech was in for the most part, and if it wasn't it got fixed quicksmart. The aim was for 100% in tech on policy so things ran pretty smoothly.

The most memorable thing was Christmas and New Years. Two days off for each holiday and it was one awesome party the whole time, with live bands, all the booze you could consume, movies, banquets.

Then there was the canteen in the Lemon Tree at night. Yummy treats and fascinating company.

I hear things have changed quite a bit!

Regarding being part of a group that is trying to make a better world, I know exactly where you're coming from. I think that is a really big part of the Scientology experience. Part of the trap, yes, but the shared goal is a bonding experience with other staff, SO and Scientologists. So it makes for a very cohesive group.

To address Mick's point, as for the same experience in El Qaeda, yes, same mechanism, but also in Greenpeace, Peace Corps, and so on. It's part of the group experience and the shared goal. It can go pear-shaped but often doesn't. The trick is, I think, to critically evaluate all you do as you go along and how it actually aligns with your purpose. Not to avoid all groups that are trying to improve things in the world!

Too bad all that effort in Scientology was in vain. One of my exit cogs was when I realized that Scientology was accomplishing jack shit as far as improving anything whatsoever in the world. The help that Scientology actually gives is very much one on one to individuals from individuals. Auditing and training can produce good results, but so little time is given to this in the overall scheme of things Scientological that it becomes just not worth it.

 

[Minuet #1 in G]

I was Flag public for about 11 years getting onto OT 7 then doing the courses again when GAT came out. I was there on and off many times from periods ranging for 2 to 8 weeks from about 1990 to 2000.

I liked other scios on the level and had lots of long talks with interesting people. I liked that I could get proper fish and chips at a restaurant over by the CW library. I liked that little cafe that did teriyaki chicken and rice for about $5. I liked wandering around CW and checking out the malls. I would ride everywhere on a bike a bought from the pawn shop on Cleveland Ave which I was able to sell again for the original price less about $10. I liked the second hand bookshop in downtown CW.

I liked going to the canteen when the Sandcastle was first opened. Was a little bit of normalcy.

First trip got to see the Superbowl in the auditorium which and being allowed to have beer and hotdogs! (Not real beer tho)

Didnt like the accommodation. Generally I could only afford the Yachtsman (Heart of Clearwater prior to renovation) Didn't like the weather much when I was there in summer. Didnt like that I couldn't get sessionable, and never slept well, elongating my stays. Hated the leaving base sec check and waiting for cs ok to leave. Hated the tests and crams and having to do conditions.

I noticed it got madder as time went on. From being a staff member to pampered public was ok for a while, then the novelty wore off especially when on the level.

The nicest thing generally was going to Tampa airport and waiting in the departure lounge, buying a book and just being able to relax knowing I wouldn't have to put up with the stress for a reasonable period (rarely went back each 6 months!) And having lots of wonderful solitude for the 40 hours or so it took me to get home!

 

[Arthur Dent]

The proper term for "Missing Flag" would be STOCKHOLM SYNDROME. :wink2:

Good one!

But, really, let's see now....

I do miss sec checks and being sent to ethics on Wednesday hoping the tidal wave stat push would land me on the shores of the courseroom by Thursday at 2. It was the kind of high one might get if they were addicted to gambling.

I miss the various times staff was worked over on the hobby horse of the moment... like the time all staff were getting or had just gotten FPRD and were
behaving rather nicely to the public and to each other in persons and on the phones. They were acting like corporate workers and using extreme and unnatural (for scientologists) manners. What, no yelling it right?? That didn't last.

Then there was the time female staff were made to exercise, get proper hair cuts and wear make-up. But this was before the trend became the sunken eye-sockets, sleep-deprived-zombie smiling face look that, I would assume, is still in fashion.

I miss hearing of other's plights of having to disconnect from family members before being allowed to continue. Trapped by the cost of services, time invested and amount of hassle if they didn't do it yet wanted to continue up the almighty bridge.
I was shocked that some stories made mine pale. It was just sad that everyone had a story. But the stories were referred to as "sits," or "cycles." At dinner was commonly heard "So, what's your cycle?" "Oh mine? A Classic Harley." I hated the minimizing language. Yeah, I miss that.

I miss hiding out in the public library.

I miss seeing familiar faces I'd "grown up with" from the early days in the cult. Some staff, some public. I miss some of the camaraderie.

I actually do miss some of the staff I knew for years to be warm-hearted individuals. I really wish they would all just walk out knowing there was help on the outside.

I miss the drilling in the course room and how perfect we became. It's hard to attain such sheer perfection and a pass out here in the real world. If only I could drill cutting the lawn with my neighbor... it might replace the loss.

But most of all, (big sigh), I miss the grouper sandwich.

 

[RolandRB]

Members of the public on OT 7 are not allowed to slap monkeys!

Is that taking animal rights too far!

Could it be some king of euphemism, something like bashing the bishop?

Correct!

 

[GoNuclear]

I don't know if anybody else experiences this, but there are times I miss Flag. I liked being there for my 6 months check (well, not the endless sec check end rudes and the madness of having to get a c/s ok to leave). I liked seeing Flag Staff and friends on 7 whom I hadn't seen for months, eating at the Sandcastle restaurant, drilling - it was like we were part of a special group, taking responsibility. So addicting. I can't say I enjoyed doing liability formulas and I especially hated having to sign one where this 7 did liability for slapping the monkey.

It has been a while since I have had a dream about being there ( Flag always seemed like a college university in my dreams - never ever did it look like the actual place - or any other university that I have ever been at this LT either) but with the daylight savings, it reminded me of being there, my having recovering from jet lag only to have the time change an hour and screwing with my internal clock yet again.

Fun. Maybe if I ever go to Florida again, I'll stop by there for lunch. I wonder how long for security to give me the bum's rush? They just have no sense of humor.

Mimsey

I miss the Navy the way it was when I served onboard a submarine in the second half of the 1970's. There were plenty of hardships and asspains, but, as time goes by you remember the good things. In the civillian world or wog world if you like, there are people that you work with, but, in the Navy, there were shipmates ... guys that were suffering along side of you when the going got rough, and the same guys to hang out with having fun in foreign ports ... a work hard, play hard group that was tightly nit together from shared hardships. I suspect that there was a lot of that for staff at Flag, inspite of the KR tattle-tale programming. Maybe that is some of the attraction to reminisce over.

Clearwater is a beautiful little town inspite of the FH, the sea ogres, stupor power, and the occupation. Meanwhile, the occupation is coming to an end ... perhaps not today, or tomorrow, or perhaps not even in 2012, but soon nevertheless. When the clams pack up their shit or at least cease operations in Clearwater, there is bound to be a huge celebration. That will be the time to go back there. I was never a sea ogre nor did I ever get far up enough the bridge as a public to go to Flag, but, I will make a point of flying down to Clearwater for the celebration. It is one of the few things that I would be willing to tolerate the antics of the TSA-holes at the airport for. There will be partying in the streets, lots of drinking I imagine, joints being passed around, politicians making speeches posing as if they were leading the parade and telling the clams "GOOD RIDDANCE!!!!!!!" and there may even be a fireworks display that evening. That will be the time to go back and reminisce, hopefully I will get to meet in person lots of folk from ESMB at the big party.

Pete

 

[Minuet #1 in G]

The good bit about being out and about in Clearwater was that it was not Flag. Of itself, not particularly special. I did like cruising down to the beach and the warm nights.

I went to Disneyland and EPCOT centre once at Orlando. That was cool.

 

[anon612]

If I ever go back to Florida, I'll never visit Clearwater.

There's more to Clearwater than Flag. You should come back sometime and see the rest of it. We have the market cornered on beaches.

Or join us for a protest. That works too.

I went to Disneyland and EPCOT centre once at Orlando. That was cool.

Disneyland is in California. We have Disney World. ;D Significant difference, trust me.

 

[Kutta]

There's more to Clearwater than Flag. You should come back sometime and see the rest of it. We have the market cornered on beaches.

Or join us for a protest. That works too.

.....

Ok, yeah, I'd love to be at a protest there, and I remember the beaches fondly — I escaped there when I think I was supposed to be doing ethics conditions. Not sure cos the EO didn't seem to know where I was, what I was doing, didn't follow up at all. That was 1979. I guess you could go incognito then.