Mixed Feelings on Scientology

showme

New Member
Is it really ALL a crock?
Really?
I wanted to help others and get help for myself when I joined the sea org. Turned out working long hours and not making any progress for myself was not for me.
I did get some auditing and thought it was helpful.
I see so much anti-scientology but it seems to me it's all about how people have been treated on-staff.
Is there nowhere one can get the gains without the pressure of "joining staff" or donating mega mega $$?
 

The_Fixer

Class Clown
Hi Showme and welcome.

Many, if not most of us here think it is a total crock.

However there are some believers around here as well. The Free Zone.

They may hold some of the answers to your questions. But decide for yourself first if you are still a believer in the tech before you immerse yourself in that area.

I don't know how long you have been out, but I seriously suggest you sit back for a while first and study what you can both here and elsewhere before you commit yourself to anything. You may save yourself a lot of future aggravation and heartaches. Or not. It's up to you and there is no pressure now.

I would suggest this thread for reading first up: http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?27909-trepidatious

It's long, but I found it interesting and is a current thread on this board.
 
... Is there nowhere one can get the gains without the pressure of "joining staff" or donating mega mega $$?

Hubbard's claims were unrealistic but there are several places around where an individual can receive the benefits of auditing practices & similar without going into debt or joining a crusaded. Some are free zone some are derivative other practices. Best to do research and work with those with whom you are most comfortable.


Mark A. Baker
 

Ogsonofgroo

Crusader
:welcome:

Yeh, it really is a pile of twisted poop, the more you read, the more you study all the aspects, the more aware you'll become.
See ya at the next Pastafarian meeting!:p
 

Veda

Sponsor
Is it really ALL a crock?
Really?
I wanted to help others and get help for myself when I joined the sea org. Turned out working long hours and not making any progress for myself was not for me.
I did get some auditing and thought it was helpful.
I see so much anti-scientology but it seems to me it's all about how people have been treated on-staff.
Is there nowhere one can get the gains without the pressure of "joining staff" or donating mega mega $$?

Welcome. :)

It's not all a crock.

Using the old glue analogy, IMO, Scientology, as designed by its founder, consists of two main aspects:

1) the solvent (truth, "abreaction"/catharsis/"key-out" etc.), which can be quite real, as long as it lasts, anyway.

2) and the lacquer (the sea of words, half truths, falsehoods, smoke and mirrors, gimmicks, tricks, manipulation, etc.)

In the proper ratio, these combine to make a mind-glue that sticks a person to Scientology. Currently, Miscavige has screwed up the ratio of solvent and lacquer with too much lacquer and not enough solvent. (Without solvent, glue doesn't "work.")

If you want friendly Scientology mind-glue, it's available outside the CofS.

Personally, I wouldn't let anyone, who considers himself a Scientologist, mess with my mind.

Recommend examining the 'Human potential and self discovery outside and beyond Scientology' section of this MB.
 

TG1

Angelic Poster
Showme,

Welcome to ESMB.

"Is it all a crock?" That's a very worthwhile question.

Your answer will depend on your courage to look. And to keep looking.

Best wishes,

TG1
 

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation
Is it really ALL a crock?
Really?
I wanted to help others and get help for myself when I joined the sea org. Turned out working long hours and not making any progress for myself was not for me.
I did get some auditing and thought it was helpful.
I see so much anti-scientology but it seems to me it's all about how people have been treated on-staff.
Is there nowhere one can get the gains without the pressure of "joining staff" or donating mega mega $$?



Hi showme and welcome.

Yes, there are loads of places you can go to get gains (improve your life) but the first thing to do is to get your attention off yourself and any real or imagined "outpoints" or issues which you were probably not aware of having until you got into scientology.

:coolwink:

Maybe it's time to move on now and try to see the funny side of the con you were dragged into, give it a try eh?



 

Infinite

Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
Is it really ALL a crock?

Yes.


There is some repackaged common sense which is helpful. Practising speaking out loud in different tones can be useful, as can learning to quieten inner "noise" so as to be able to better listen. Touble is, such stuff presented is in Scientology wrapping. A person who hasn't previously come across the common sense elsewhere can be forgiven for assuming the source is L Ron Hubbard but, in fact, its not Scientology. It remains true that there is nothing in Scientology than cannot be found elsewhere and which is also more effective, longer lasting, cheaper, and far, far safer.

I wanted to help others and get help for myself when I joined the sea org.

Your desire to help others indicates an altruistic streak, something Scientology specialises in corrupting for its own aims.

Turned out working long hours and not making any progress for myself was not for me.

Not much "exchange" in that scenario, for sure. Good for you being able to recognise what amounts to exploitation. Some never see it.

I did get some auditing and thought it was helpful.

Can you identify any quantifiable things you received which are not available from other practises, say hypnotism, for example?

I see so much anti-scientology but it seems to me it's all about how people have been treated on-staff.

There's a lot of that but, for me, its all about the way wogs are treated by Scientology. For example, Google: Paulette Cooper, Jim Berry, Shawn Lonsdale, Gabriel "Gabe" Cazares, Nan McLean, and, just recently, Stacy Dawn Murphy. The list goes on and on. And then there's the Scientologists who never were on staff.

Is there nowhere one can get the gains without the pressure of "joining staff" or donating mega mega $$?

As mentioned above, any genuine gains from Scientology can be found elsewhere. I can understand if you have a reluctance to seeking the gains you are looking for outside of the Scientology paradigm. If that is the case, then I would recommend Paul's Robot. It does no harm, its available where you are and when you want it, there is zero pressure to join staff, and its very affordable. Don't tell him but its even helped me. Twice.
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
Is there nowhere one can get the gains without the pressure of "joining staff" or donating mega mega $$?

Try PaulsRobot3 at http://paulsrobot3.com. Some of it is Scn but most of it is better. :)

No charge to try, no charge to "buy." Free throughout. Download it to your own computer and the sound will work better. Needs a browser like Chrome or Safari or IE9 for the sound to work.

Follow the instructions!

Paul
 
From my perspective, YES, it's ALL a crock, especially when viewed as a complete system of beliefs. Hubbard knew what he was doing to lure people in and TAKE them, and I mean all their money. That's all it was about. Just my two cents (which is all I had left).
 

Demented LRH

Patron Meritorious
The NYU scientists have demonstrated that the engrams do not exist. You can find their articles at www.nyu.edu
This means that Dianetics is a piece of shit.

The OT “data” is a series of hallucinations. I started the thread OT Hallucinations at this website; it explains how this fucking system of Hubbard delusions works.

There is valuable data in Scientology, including some methods of psychological healing. But Hubbard did not invent it, he “borrowed” it from scientific books and articles without mentioning the authors’ names.

 

Gadfly

Crusader
No, it is not all a crock. A good deal of it IS a crock.

Veda's answer was quite accurate (on page 1).

But, if a person ever figures it out at all it can take DECADES of wasted life and energy to do so.

There is a great deal of VERY BAD ideas and practices mixed in with some useful ideas and practices. Unless you invest a great deal of time, you will never be able to sort it out.

It is NOT any sort of path to "spiritual advancement". At best, a regards thge lower levels of ausiting, it functions largely as "therapy", and to some degree in what is called New Age visulaization.

Now, if you can find a non-pushy auditor in the independent area, quite separate from the organized Church of Scientology, and it is not expensive, it might be fun to do some of the EARLY auditing processes such as Life Repair, Objectives, Dianetics R3R, and the Expanded Grades.

If you enter with the view, "try it and see what happens", and do NOT have any great expectations that you will become some super-being with great OT powers, to me, it would be fine. :ohmy:

But Hubbard was a trickster, and part of his game was entering confusion into the minds of his followers. In another regard, because it IS such a confusing mess, it might be better for some to stay away entirely. :yes:

Also, if you study it as being simply one small part of the available information on life and people here on Earth, happily continue to study many OTHER similar studies, and do NOT accept it as some "major advanced study of all that is", that also would help.

Whatever yoiu do, DO NOT walk ito any Church of Scientology or Mission. :no:
 

palehorse

Patron
No, it is not all a crock. A good deal of it IS a crock.

Veda's answer was quite accurate (on page 1).

But, if a person ever figures it out at all it can take DECADES of wasted life and energy to do so.

There is a great deal of VERY BAD ideas and practices mixed in with some useful ideas and practices. Unless you invest a great deal of time, you will never be able to sort it out.

It is NOT any sort of path to "spiritual advancement". At best, a regards thge lower levels of ausiting, it functions largely as "therapy", and to some degree in what is called New Age visulaization.

Now, if you can find a non-pushy auditor in the independent area, quite separate from the organized Church of Scientology, and it is not expensive, it might be fun to do some of the EARLY auditing processes such as Life Repair, Objectives, Dianetics R3R, and the Expanded Grades.

If you enter with the view, "try it and see what happens", and do NOT have any great expectations that you will become some super-being with great OT powers, to me, it would be fine. :ohmy:

But Hubbard was a trickster, and part of his game was entering confusion into the minds of his followers. In another regard, because it IS such a confusing mess, it might be better for some to stay away entirely. :yes:

Also, if you study it as being simply one small part of the available information on life and people here on Earth, happily continue to study many OTHER similar studies, and do NOT accept it as some "major advanced study of all that is", that also would help.

Whatever yoiu do, DO NOT walk ito any Church of Scientology or Mission. :no:

Excellent post! I also think it is important to mention that while there may be some benefits to many parts of scientology (not the Co$!) it is certainly not the only game in town. I personally have had a couple of sessions with Mike Goldstein, co-founder of Idenics (idenics.com), and have had some helpful gains. Many gains can be had from Zen practices as well.

When venturing into these areas and questions, you really do have to find out for yourself.

Best wishes!
 

Axiom142

Gold Meritorious Patron
:welcome:

Hi there showme!

It isn’t all a crock. Just most of it.

And where can you get ‘the gains’? That’s an easy one to answer.

Nowhere.

Most of the ‘fantastic’ and ‘incredible’ gains are just that – they don’t exist. If they did, how could the so called ‘church’ of Scientology and many individual ‘OTs’ be in such a parlous state?

If you want my advice, don’t waste your time. Find something else to do instead.

Axiom142
 

Royal Prince Xenu

Trust the Psi Corps.
I would direct you to this thread:

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?26803-Looking-for-advice.

From which I lift such an eloquent post, although it was sordidly worded because of the way the question had been asked:



[STRIKE]From where are you coming? It sounds like you've already brainwashed yourself. [/STRIKE]

If you want to be involved in a "cult", join a Star Trek club. It's safer, cheaper and technologically feasible. You, too, can be properly prepared by wearing a Star Fleet uniform under your outdoor clothes just in case you're ever abducted by aliens.

What aspect of $cn do you want to experience?
If you want a Sea-Org-member experience, book a tour of South Africa and sell yourself into the white slave-trade.
If you just want the experience of being a ripped-off public, visit a casino--no, wait, that may actually be more fun.
If you want to experience being a pc, seek Freudian-based psycho-therapy.
If you want to dabble in the freezone, then lurk on the Freezone Threads and PM a few people.

As for "an educational standpoint" of "scientology" then google is your friend because, as much as the "church" tries to stop it, there are dozens of downloads available of the contents of books ("admin" and "tech") so that you can read as much or as little as you like without spending $$$ on the printed versions.
 

PirateAndBum

Gold Meritorious Patron
Welcome to ESMB!

As you can see by the varied replies, there is no consensus here on the matter, but it definitely leans to the "it's all a crock" side of the house.

I don't think it's all a crock. I think Hubbard was a con-man.

You have many options.

TROM is something I find interesting and it is free.

The Pilot's Self-Clearing Manual is also free

I prefer things I can do solo :)

Lots of super people here and so much information you couldn't hope to read it all.

Feel free to tell your own story whenever you want or not at all.

Keep asking questions.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Is it really ALL a crock?
Really?
I wanted to help others and get help for myself when I joined the sea org. Turned out working long hours and not making any progress for myself was not for me.
I did get some auditing and thought it was helpful.
I see so much anti-scientology but it seems to me it's all about how people have been treated on-staff.
Is there nowhere one can get the gains without the pressure of "joining staff" or donating mega mega $$?


A simple suggestion.

If you read a sampling of the the books and internet materials about the crimes and fraud of Hubbard and Scientology, and still want to participate, you are putting yourself in a very precarious position. But some people don't mind danger and that is your choice.

But if you don't actually know what happens on the various levels of Scientology, you owe it to yourself to do a little more study. Remember you are putting your life and career and family in the hands of people who do not actually know how to produce the results they charge people money for.

There are thousand upon of thousands of terriblly disgruntled, betrayed and defrauded customers who have left their "reviews" all over the Internet and you would be wise to take advantage of their knowledge and experience. Same as eBay. Look at the reviews, my friend. They are not all lying.

If you decide to take the risk, I can only give you a pathetic piece of advice which is this: WRITE DOWN ON A PIECE OF PAPER WHAT YOU ACTUALLY WANT TO ACHIEVE WITH YOUR TIME/FINANCIAL INVESTMENT IN SCIENTOLOGY.

Look at that paper from time to time and honestly see if you are achieving those results. Not the promises or "feel-good" moments, but the RESULTS you actually want.

And look at the cost of time and money too. it's an investment. Does it really give you the returns you actually want? Be honest.

If you become one of the rare persons who figures out how to navigate the perilous path within Scientology (that assuredly does not result in the abilities that Hubbard writes about in his books and tapes and bulletins) then you have found what you are looking for.

I don't believe that it is possible to get even 0.00005 % of what Scientology promises, but maybe you don't care.

I cared enough about you to tell you all this.

Good luck in your journey. Very steep cliffs ahead...keep your eyes open.

Best!

HH

ps: You might be wondering, so I will add this: I was a staff member and Sea Org member. I went thru OT VII, Class VI, trained C/S, Course Supervisor who trained hundreds of auditors, cramming officer, Data Series "why finder" and audited a hell of a lot in orgs, advanced orgs, st. hills and missions. I was assigned celebrities to audit because of my skills. Knowing all of what I know and did, I would never in a million years want any friend of mine to be exposed to the mentally damaging parts of trying and failing to go Clear and OT. I know what I am talking about, I lived it and saw it with my own eyes. Talk to some more people who already tried what you are going to try.
 
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poppy

Patron
It takes great courage to ask this question not only to others but also to yourself. The answer I found to that question hit me like an arrow in my heart 18 years ago. The first thing I discovered was that Hubbard was not the man I had grown up believing he was. Reading about Hubbard's real background, life & training may help you. My next question was if Hubbard wasn't who he said he was how could I believe anything else he said? He may well have stolen useful bits of technology from other places but in my experience every piece of Scientology tech (policies & bulletins) are used to manipulate & control. Accepting this was hard for me - the first 20 years of my life felt like a betrayal & deception of everything I had grown up to believe in. Reading helped me a lot. Good luck in your search for the truth.
 

Auditor's Toad

Clear as Mud
Is it really ALL a crock?
Really?
I wanted to help others and get help for myself when I joined the sea org. Turned out working long hours and not making any progress for myself was not for me.
I did get some auditing and thought it was helpful.
I see so much anti-scientology but it seems to me it's all about how people have been treated on-staff.
Is there nowhere one can get the gains without the pressure of "joining staff" or donating mega mega $$?

The claimed "gains" from $cn have yet - in 60 years - to be demonstrated.

Look elsewhere, there are things that "work". $cn ain't one of 'em
 
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