More details of DMs current management "style"

Colleen K. Peltomaa

Silver Meritorious Patron
Does this sound familiar?

"7. Mormonism resorts to the slander and abuse of every man who dares to give up the faith and expose its secret workings. It assumes that "pure, honest, virtuous men do not apostatize and turn against the principles of the gospel;" therefore it brands all apostates as impure, dishonest and unvirtuous. Smith would come out one day with a revelation commending certain of his followers, and the next publish them through his papers as liars, knaves and rascals. No man stood higher with the Mormons at Nauvoo in 1840-41 than Dr. John C. Bennett. They showered their favors upon him. He lived in the prophet's family. And to him was largely due, as the Mormons themselves admitted, the advancement and progress of their city. But when he and Smith fell out, he was published to the world as all that was vile and dishonest. Such men as Williams, Cowdery, Harris and Whitmer, the Laws, Fosters and Higbees, Cowles and Johnsons were high members of the Mormon Church, and were the recipients of Smith's favors until they apostatized and told what they knew about the prophets, when Smith turned upon them and denounced them in unmeasured terms. The fact is that most of these men were decent, and when they discovered his sins they opposed them and were cut off. Today Mormonism hates no man with a more bitter hatred than it does Frank J. Cannon -- he has given away its secrets."
 

NonScio

Patron Meritorious
Yes Kookaburra,

I have the same concern. It may be (although after this much time not necessarily so) that the people individually think that they are messed up themselves and that the wog world will be only worse. Such is the power of suggestion and specifically one that is given repeatedly and with great impact.:duh: It would be rather courageous for the first person to walk out with the police. I believe there are other legal problems with that approach, although detaining a person without his consent is also illegal to my knowledge. Needs a legal expert, not me, to say if this would even be possible and what evidence the police would need for it to happen. Anyone know a good California attorney?

Another possibility would be to get though to Warren McShane that following DM orders is not a good career move nor condusive to future survival. He could cook up a story to tell the guards and get the whole lot out of there in one go. Again, the problem is that it would take just one person who thinks DM is right to go and blow that idea.

Overall, I think the balance of people who want to stay versus people who'd rather get out of there is about 20 to 80. It is not probably manifest and they don't allow themselves to even think that though very far due to the way you are indoctrinated, but they at least feel that something is seriously wrong and that they'd be better off somewhere else. The trick is the get them to the point where they realize they're right! Not an easy task. Anybody want to hire a helicopter so we can do a drop-off of "Wog World Newsletters" over the base?

Could just use the same weapon as DM does: propaganda.

Victor

My guess is that when the "powers that be" decide to act against
Scientology, it will be an international and simultaneous action.
Let's hope that they would finesse the assault with a bit more skill
than Janet Reno's FBI/ATF did at Waco.

In general, past government raids against cults have not gone well.
Jim Jone's "Peoples Temple" (700+ followers) promptly committed
suicide when a mere U.S. Congressman came to "investigate" abuses
at their compound. The Congressman and his staff were
murdered.

The raid on Waco ended with a bloody shootout and a fiery holocaust
that wiped out the cult members in the compound...including many
women and children who probably would have preferred to "come out".
The cult "leader" in these circumstances usually does not allow anyone to
defect (he usually ends up a suicide and takes as many followers as possible
with him)

The tragedy at Waco could have been avoided if the feds had simply
picked up Koresh when he was out of the compound on one of his
daily jogs or trips to town...instead they waited until he was in
the cult buildings to try and serve their warrant..it all went downhill from
there. I would hope that any planned raid(s) on Scientology would
use a bit more sense...like pick up DM outside the Hemet compound
before they go in...take out "command and control" so to speak.
Avoid bloodshed.

On the other hand...maybe Waco went down the way it did because it
was planned that way...make an example of them...a warning to
other would be messiahs who might in anyway resist the New World
Order. Then again...maybe DM and Scientology ARE part of the
New World Order! Which might be the reason governments
(other than Germany and Russia) have been relatively benign
and haven't yet taken drastic action to shut Scientology down.
 

Pascal

Silver Meritorious Patron
Like the Freemasons back when. Everyone was a freemason.

I doubt it. I have a nose for people and DM is a moron in my book. There are many mysteries. But SCN is the key to unlock them.:yes:
 

Kookaburra

Gold Meritorious Patron
In general, past government raids against cults have not gone well.
Jim Jone's "Peoples Temple" (700+ followers) promptly committed
suicide when a mere U.S. Congressman came to "investigate" abuses
at their compound. The Congressman and his staff were
murdered.

No, it certainly didn't go well, but the 700 followers did not commit suicide. They were also murdered. Unless you count drinking the poison with a gun held to your head as a voluntary action.


The raid on Waco ended with a bloody shootout and a fiery holocaust
that wiped out the cult members in the compound...including many
women and children who probably would have preferred to "come out".
The cult "leader" in these circumstances usually does not allow anyone to
defect (he usually ends up a suicide and takes as many followers as possible
with him)


Could well happen at Int. They are heavily armed and heavily indoctrinated. Those that are not 100% indoctrinated are cowed and threatened into submissiveness.


The tragedy at Waco could have been avoided if the feds had simply
picked up Koresh when he was out of the compound on one of his
daily jogs or trips to town...instead they waited until he was in
the cult buildings to try and serve their warrant..it all went downhill from
there. I would hope that any planned raid(s) on Scientology would
use a bit more sense...like pick up DM outside the Hemet compound
before they go in...take out "command and control" so to speak.
Avoid bloodshed.

This is an EXCELLENT POINT!!!!!!

So good in fact, that you should send a letter to the FBI pointing this out.
It could be they are holding off as they do not need another PR fiasco like Waco. They just might find a few of the insiders on their side if they play their cards right.

Regards,

Kookaburra
 

Little Bear Victor

Silver Meritorious Patron
Wow, all fashion of theories fly on this one!

Somehow the Jonestown and Waco stories don't quite match up with my experiences at Int. The place is NOT heavily armed. A couple of security guards may have guns or access to them. There's no militant fire arms training. DM may do so as a hobby, and maybe some of his pals used to (I don't think there are any left that used to). The only really crazy one on the Base is DM. True, he could inflict some damage, and he could go as crazy as trying to take people out with him if it came to that. I'm not saying it is totally impossible, but it certainly is stretching the imagination further than mine stretches.

The likelihood of government forces interrupting a religious activity is not that high. DM has managed to secure religious and tax-exempt status for Scientology. I don't know what crime would allow an FBI raid onto the Base. Such things require a pretty sizable problem, pretty good evidence and witnesses, don't they?

It should be much easier to take DM out on the basis of his violations of the corporate separateness of the church entities, since he is now running each and every one of them personally while claiming to have no hand in their daily business or activities. Or his control of all finances and assets of Scientology.

He isn't even on the base 90% of the time.

I think the religious massacre comparisons are too far fetched.

Victor
 

NonScio

Patron Meritorious
Wow, all fashion of theories fly on this one!

Somehow the Jonestown and Waco stories don't quite match up with my experiences at Int. The place is NOT heavily armed. A couple of security guards may have guns or access to them. There's no militant fire arms training. DM may do so as a hobby, and maybe some of his pals used to (I don't think there are any left that used to). The only really crazy one on the Base is DM. True, he could inflict some damage, and he could go as crazy as trying to take people out with him if it came to that. I'm not saying it is totally impossible, but it certainly is stretching the imagination further than mine stretches.

The likelihood of government forces interrupting a religious activity is not that high. DM has managed to secure religious and tax-exempt status for Scientology. I don't know what crime would allow an FBI raid onto the Base. Such things require a pretty sizable problem, pretty good evidence and witnesses, don't they?

It should be much easier to take DM out on the basis of his violations of the corporate separateness of the church entities, since he is now running each and every one of them personally while claiming to have no hand in their daily business or activities. Or his control of all finances and assets of Scientology.

He isn't even on the base 90% of the time.

I think the religious massacre comparisons are too far fetched.

Victor

Let's hope what you say is true. However, the government had
far less justification for the Waco raid than they would for a
Scientology takedown if one is to believe even a small percentage
of the horror stories about the goings on a various Scientology facilities
as described on the numerous anti Scientology boards on the internet.

As I recall. Waco was vaguely justified by Reno as some sort of noble
attempt to rescue children being "abused" at the Davidian compound.
The children ended up dead. Also under Reno's watch we had the
Ruby Ridge incident where federal agents shot dead an 11 year old boy,
(and his dog!) and a mother holding an infant in her arms.

If there is indeed such people as "SPs", it certainly seems that
they gravitate towards "government work". Certainly the Waco and
Ruby Ridge incidents can not be justified to any sane and honorable
person...yet they happened. All it takes is the right (or wrong) person
in some high government position to decide that the time has come
to "show em who's boss"...take drastic action and spin the reasons
afterwards. Look at Iraq...that's how crazy a government can act.

Given the high (negative) public profile of Scientology, the current "War
on Terror" hysteria, and the sometimes borderline insane/paranoia..and
incompetence of the federal government...well, anything could happen.
I certainly wouldn't feel safe living at ground zero of any potential target
of Federal government wrath. Just one more reason for anyone who
finds himself physically located at one of these facilities to do the
prudent thing and leave.
 

Div6

Crusader
Let's hope what you say is true.
<Stuff snipped>

Given the high (negative) public profile of Scientology, the current "War
on Terror" hysteria, and the sometimes borderline insane/paranoia..and
incompetence of the federal government...well, anything could happen.
I certainly wouldn't feel safe living at ground zero of any potential target
of Federal government wrath. Just one more reason for anyone who
finds himself physically located at one of these facilities to do the
prudent thing and leave.

Uh, I would just like to point out that the current US govt has taken a number of pages from the Scio playbook.....if anything they will protect it "as one of their own."

1. Soldiers returning from Iraq are being billed for lost and damaged equiptment. (FL bills)
2. Incarceration without due process or any legal recourse. (RPF)
3. Torture (Gang bang sec checks, wrong indications, running around the pole).
4. Rigged elections, dictatorial power with no oversight. (Office of CoB).
5. War against a word (terror, reactive mind).

and so on....
 

Tanstaafl

Crusader
Uh, I would just like to point out that the current US govt has taken a number of pages from the Scio playbook.....if anything they will protect it "as one of their own."

1. Soldiers returning from Iraq are being billed for lost and damaged equiptment. (FL bills)
2. Incarceration without due process or any legal recourse. (RPF)
3. Torture (Gang bang sec checks, wrong indications, running around the pole).
4. Rigged elections, dictatorial power with no oversight. (Office of CoB).
5. War against a word (terror, reactive mind).

and so on....

:goodposting:
 

bts2free

Patron with Honors
At the Int Base, at least when I was there, there was a drill for everything. The intruder drill, the blow drill, the Hwy 79 picketer or SP drill, the Process Server drill, etc...

For example, the blow drill. If Security found out that someone blew, there are a group of people at the base with pagers and Security will dispatch them when needed. These people are then sent out to the bus stations, airports, train station, etc. to try to recover the blowee before getting to far away.

Any guns at the base are kept by Security Gold including personal firearms. DM has his own shooting range that he and his buddies will go to. If there's a huge weapons cache at Gold, it's not known about by the general base staff member, but probably only a select few, namely DM and few others.

I also knew Andre, Mary and Cassavius personally. Andre had worked with LRH and was in the Sea Org for many years, so maybe he saw things from earlier that had been changed over the years or are now just hidden from view.

The only guns I ever saw at the base were the ones Uwe Stuckenbrock and Danny Dunagin would cary in side holsters. Those two definitely had a boner for those guns.
 

NonScio

Patron Meritorious
Uh, I would just like to point out that the current US govt has taken a number of pages from the Scio playbook.....if anything they will protect it "as one of their own."

1. Soldiers returning from Iraq are being billed for lost and damaged equiptment. (FL bills)
2. Incarceration without due process or any legal recourse. (RPF)
3. Torture (Gang bang sec checks, wrong indications, running around the pole).
4. Rigged elections, dictatorial power with no oversight. (Office of CoB).
5. War against a word (terror, reactive mind).

and so on....

Good points and interesting analogies. On the other hand, re protecting
it as "one of their own"...well its the competition, don't you know!
Little honor among thieves!

I recall seeing some speculation on one of the anti Scientology boards
that some sort of deal was struck on the IRS raid case...that the
government is in effect now covertly running Scientology..and that's
why its immune from legal sanction...a bit far fetched to me, but not
altogether out of the question.

At the time of the Jim Jones, "Peoples Temple" incident, I had a work mate
who had been with the OSS (prerunner agency to CIA) during WW2.
We got talking about the Jim Jones disaster, he said that the
whole thing "smelled of CIA" and was convinced that
the whole thing was a CIA psyops program which had gone sour.
Could be, I suppose.
 

everfree

Patron Meritorious
For example, the blow drill. If Security found out that someone blew, there are a group of people at the base with pagers and Security will dispatch them when needed. These people are then sent out to the bus stations, airports, train station, etc. to try to recover the blowee before getting to far away.

That such a thing would be DRILLED let alone carried out is extremely creepy.
 

Div6

Crusader
Good points and interesting analogies. On the other hand, re protecting
it as "one of their own"...well its the competition, don't you know!
Little honor among thieves!

I recall seeing some speculation on one of the anti Scientology boards
that some sort of deal was struck on the IRS raid case...that the
government is in effect now covertly running Scientology..and that's
why its immune from legal sanction...a bit far fetched to me, but not
altogether out of the question.

At the time of the Jim Jones, "Peoples Temple" incident, I had a work mate
who had been with the OSS (prerunner agency to CIA) during WW2.
We got talking about the Jim Jones disaster, he said that the
whole thing "smelled of CIA" and was convinced that
the whole thing was a CIA psyops program which had gone sour.
Could be, I suppose.


Well, after all, that IS the 4th dynamic engram dramatization.....ie: some govt withhold is about to get exposed, and so a huge conflagaration is created as a misdirector and cover up in the hopes that the "secret" stay unexposed.

Congressman Ryan was investigating the CIA at the time, who had a laundry list of crimes (called the Family Jewels) that included infiltrating domestic anti-war groups and inciting crimes, to the MK-Ultra class of mental experiments a la the deranged head of the APA Dr. Ewen Cameron.


It was Leo Ryans daughter Patricia that started the Cult Awareness Network.


The rumour I heard was that OSA got some juicy blackmail on an IRS official, which forced their hand to settle. I think the tacit agreement was that OSA and the CoS would "look the other way" as regards Govt crimes as a quid pro quo for "legitimizing" the CoS. There have certainly been no "Freedom Mag" exposes of US war crimes in Iraq, for example....
 
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Little Bear Victor

Silver Meritorious Patron
That such a thing would be DRILLED let alone carried out is extremely creepy.

It is, and pretty effective too. I was caught by Security on their "blowee" drill. If I hadn't been lulled into believing they must have given up on me after a couple of days, I would have made it out of there 6 months earlier...

Victor
 
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