MS2: People attack Scientology because they "couldn’t apply the tech of Scientology"

CommunicatorIC

@IndieScieNews on Twitter
Tom Martiniano speaking for Milestone Two: People attack Scientology because they "couldn’t apply the tech of Scientology while they were in."

I wonder who this could possibly be aimed at?

It won’t work if not used
http://milestonetwo.wordpress.com/2014/08/24/it-wont-work-if-not-used/

Excerpt:
There is a similar situation with Scientology since its inception. The worse education in the United States got, the worse the orgs became. When I run across people who have been in Scientology for years and then leave it and in some cases turn around and attack it, I know, for sure, that these people couldn’t apply the tech of Scientology while they were in. For if they did apply the tech, they would have had wins.

Picture a student who is in an org, studying Dianetics. He has a lot of Mis-Us on DMSMH and rolls off of the course. Then he gets onto staff and learns how to route comm and stuff from the Staff Statuses and then gravitates up the org board becomes an exec and then leaves when things get tough. He hates Scientology and hates it so much he decides to attack it. And why not? There was so much promise in this subject that the ARCX he has with it is monstrous. He will tell you the tech doesn’t work and you know what? From his viewpoint it doesn’t.

Some Scientologists “know” the tech and could probably explain a lot of it to you, but if these Scientologists were asked to apply it to someone or to life, they wouldn’t have a clue.

If they would have applied basic tech like the TRs that they learned and applied TRs to life, they would have had monster wins. If they took the ARC Triangle and used it on people until they became an ace on it, they would have had big wins. I can tell you right now that there are a lot of people who can tell you all about the ARC Triangle but who never successfully used it to get to any Understanding.

You have to apply what you have learned in order to see if it works. This is true of ANY science and any technology. LRH even had an answer for people who said “I applied it and it didn’t work”. He asked them, “Well, what did you really do?” And this is where it is at.

It is not that someone knows any Scientology tech, it is a matter of can he or she apply Scientology Technology that one has already learned. And if one decides to go out and use the ARC Triangle and it doesn’t work, then they must find out what they did wrong and get it fixed. Then try it again until they can do it and see the results. This is where the wins come from. Apply, apply, apply.
 

prosecco

Patron Meritorious
Re: MS2: People attack Scientology because they "couldn’t apply the tech of Scientolo

Oh dear. What garbage, especially the part about the South Korean pilot crashing being traced to poor education. Um, actually South Korea is ranked as number 1 or 2 in the world as far as education standards.
 

gbuck

oxymoron
Re: MS2: People attack Scientology because they "couldn’t apply the tech of Scientolo

These guys are slick. My barbers are also called Slick and I trust them, even though they hold a razor at my throat and ask me if I'm happy with their work. They provide a good service to our community.
Apparently we weren't completely in the bubble, well yes that's obvious.
I've assigned myself the long neglected task of educating my kids in how the scio bubble operates
without wherever possible referring to or using their mind altering gobbledegook.
I' ve been comparing it to an old fashioned term of being under a spell as the basis of
the system.
My eldest boy went to an official website and told me that their site crap started to pull him in.
Started only.
The guys referred to as Milestone Two do it better in my opinion.
I also sent him a link to the article about narcissism and the self, to which his response was where is the rest of the book? Kids eh!
Apparently according to a broadcast over the BBC radio which I only caught briefly whilst driving
IQ has been decreasing globally since the early 1900's !
Peak IQ has been reached so some believe. My kids are brighter than I was at there age, so I'm
sceptical, apparently dumbness in our family is not inherited.....
 

Tom of Helatrobus

Patron Meritorious
Re: MS2: People attack Scientology because they "couldn’t apply the tech of Scientolo

A long time ago I concluded that either 1.) Scientology is so difficult to apply correctly that no one is able to apply it correctly, thus making it impractical or 2.) Scientology doesn't work at all even if applied correctly. Pretty sure #2 is the correct answer.
 

gbuck

oxymoron
Re: MS2: People attack Scientology because they "couldn’t apply the tech of Scientolo

A long time ago I concluded that either 1.) Scientology is so difficult to apply correctly that no one is able to apply it correctly, thus making it impractical or 2.) Scientology doesn't work at all even if applied correctly. Pretty sure #2 is the correct answer.
I think that it works all too perfectly. Some people were under it's workings for more than 30 years.
It can make you Master of your own bubble, until you prick the bubble.
 

gbuck

oxymoron
Re: MS2: People attack Scientology because they "couldn’t apply the tech of Scientolo

Milestone Two did the slick rundown , and came up with:

Super slick spells for new students of suggestibility......
 

arcxcauseblows

Patron Meritorious
Re: MS2: People attack Scientology because they "couldn’t apply the tech of Scientolo

IRONY

they attack lrh's church themselves
they believe lrh's tech works
they believe they know how to apply it

if the tech worked, and they knew how to apply it, they wouldn't be a squirrel group, they would have fixed lrh's church from the inside

they refuse to confront the truth which is some of lrh's tech is harmful (disconnection, heavy ethics, fair gaming, greed, abortion, abuse)
 

Udarnik

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: MS2: People attack Scientology because they "couldn’t apply the tech of Scientolo

Apparently according to a broadcast over the BBC radio which I only caught briefly whilst driving
IQ has been decreasing globally since the early 1900's !
Peak IQ has been reached so some believe. My kids are brighter than I was at there age, so I'm
sceptical, apparently dumbness in our family is not inherited.....

Gbuck, I'm not sure what you heard on the Beeb, but it would not surprise me if they fucked up the analysis - I have very seldom read a news story with which I am intimately familiar where the news media did not get some crucial detail wrong. I now hold all journalists in contempt until they prove otherwise in an attempt to rid my thinking of the Gell-Mann Amnesia Effect.

I have no doubt that global IQ scores are falling because more people are taking the test, world- wide. This would cause regression to the mean in the first place, but also introduce populations to the test who are not experiencing the Flynn Effect. Almost all the talk I've seen around the Flynn Effect talks about rising IQ scores, not falling, but this is applicable only to developed countries and not the Globe. The global IQ will continue to fall until all regions taking the IQ test have roughly similarly educated populations.

Generally, I believe the Flynn effect is due to the earlier and more widespread teaching of skills that are measured by IQ tests. This means both that the IQ gain over time is somewhat due to training, but also due to native intelligence increases - the more the brain is stimulated at an early age, the more connections are made as positive feedback influences phenotype (but not genotype). There is some recent evidence to suggest this educational priming effect is maxing out, so that developed nations may have reached peak IQ, but gobally, we are nowhere near humanity's max.
 

whoisxenu

Patron with Honors
Re: MS2: People attack Scientology because they "couldn’t apply the tech of Scientolo

"This is what the investigation uncovered. The pilots actually can’t fly an airplane because they cannot apply what they had learned."

Another interpretation might be that what the Korean pilots learned has no (or limited) relationship or application to reality (like "the tech"):yes:
 

Free Being Me

Crusader
Re: MS2: People attack Scientology because they "couldn’t apply the tech of Scientolo

$cientology: The prison where Elcon induced delusion is sacred and $cientologists congratulate themselves for their narcissistic grandiosity.

$cientologists call that "wins." :hamster:
 

phenomanon

Canyon
Re: MS2: People attack Scientology because they "couldn’t apply the tech of Scientolo

Tom Martiniano speaking for Milestone Two: People attack Scientology because they "couldn’t apply the tech of Scientology while they were in."

I wonder who this could possibly be aimed at?

It won’t work if not used
http://milestonetwo.wordpress.com/2014/08/24/it-wont-work-if-not-used/

Excerpt:

Tom would be surprised to read my Ethics folder and see the many commendations I received for "making the tech work".
Sorry, Tom.
Wrong Item.
 

Lulu Belle

Moonbat
Re: MS2: People attack Scientology because they "couldn’t apply the tech of Scientolo

I still shake my head at Tom Martiniano giving these "tech speeches".

Like Lana, this guy was not an auditor. He was never an auditor. Both of them had admin jobs.

Just seems kind of weird to me that it's these two who are so front and center in this Standard Tech parade.
 

phenomanon

Canyon
Re: MS2: People attack Scientology because they "couldn’t apply the tech of Scientolo

Tom should read my Ethics File ( before 1983) and check out the several dozen commendations in there. A couple from LRH, hisself , that I was given for "making the tech work".
Many of us did not leave because we had no wins. We left in order to protect our fellows from a dangerous environment. Isolation Rundown comes to mind. You know...Lisa MacPherson was on it for 17 days before "it worked" for her and she died. Roxann Richards was on it and is now a vegetable, totally dependent on her parents ( Good work, Megan Shields).
Do it from within? Why aren't YOU doing it from within, Tom?
Do you need some Postulate Processing to aid you in making your Postulate stick?
O too bad . Y'all don't do that anymore.
How about an LX1? Or a 'Fear of People Rundown'? Also gone. Along with the best Processes from the 50's.

Get real, Dude. The Game is over.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Re: MS2: People attack Scientology because they "couldn’t apply the tech of Scientolo

..

A long time ago I concluded that either 1.) Scientology is so difficult to apply correctly that no one is able to apply it correctly, thus making it impractical or 2.) Scientology doesn't work at all even if applied correctly. Pretty sure #2 is the correct answer.

LOL. Perfect!

There may even be a third choice. . .

1) Scientology is so difficult to apply correctly that no one is able to apply it correctly, thus making it impractical

2) Scientology doesn't work at all even if applied correctly. Pretty sure #2 is the correct answer.

3) Scientology is a tech that works 100% of the time and people win 100% of the time.

How is #3 possible, you are asking? LOL.

Like this: Assume for a moment that Scientology was a foolproof system for gambling in Las Vegas. The book containing the secrets of how to win 100% of the time costs $ 500,000, even though it is only two pages. The first page explains the tech of why you should always bet on RED. The second page explains the tech of why you should always bet on black.

Anyone who applies the tech always wins. If they don't win, a Scientologist can easily show them that they didn't apply the tech correctly by pointing out that they bet black when the tech clearly says "always bet red" or that they bet red when the tech clearly says "always bet black".

This tech is called The Hubbard Law of Commotion. ("For each and every piece of tech or policy, there is an equal and opposite piece of tech or policy")

I know some people think this is an exaggeration or that I am simply engaging in parody or making a joke. Unfortunately, this is exactly how Scientology tech works and why Scientologists are always proving it works by telling their "win".

Anyone still not sure? LOL. Okay, here you go. . .

"Scientology is the only game in the universe where everyone wins." (L. Ron Hubbard). Get it now? Don't make me come down there. LOL
 

ILove2Lurk

Lisbeth Salander
Re: MS2: People attack Scientology because they "couldn’t apply the tech of Scientolo

I wonder who this could possibly be aimed at?

I hope he isn't attempting to besmirch Marty and Mike.

Let's look at the facts. Both former career COS top execs come with unimpeachable pedigrees on paper.

Marty spent about 30 solid years of his life 24/7, his entire adult life essentially:

  • being meticulously audited to the top of the OT Bridge
  • by the most perfect auditors in the world at the Int Base,
  • CSed by the crème de la crème RTC CSes,
  • ruthlessly trained to the highest levels of homo novus ("new man") through OT delivery skills,
  • personally handled by top-on-the-planet RTC ethics staffs,
  • and graduate-level schooled in the #1 breakthrough administrative science of the past 50 years.
Mike spent about 35 solid years of his life 24/7, his entire adult life essentially:

  • being meticulously audited to the top of the OT Bridge,
  • by the most perfect auditors in the world at the Int Base,
  • CSed by the crème de la crème RTC CSes,
  • ruthlessly trained to the highest levels of OT solo auditing skills,
  • personally handled by top-on-the-planet RTC ethics staffs,
  • and graduate-level schooled in the #1 breakthrough administrative science of the past 50 years.
This is a lifetime invested we're talking about . . . not six or sixteen weeks of talk therapy.

Putting it in proper perspective, they should both be viewed as unquestionable products of the best the tech has to offer.

Did I miss something? :wink2:
 

Veda

Sponsor
Re: MS2: People attack Scientology because they "couldn’t apply the tech of Scientolo

Both Marty Rathbun and Mike Rinder are regarded as traitors by the MS2 people.

The explanations for their treasonous behavior - and the behavior of many others - include:

Tom Martiniano: They (being fed altered tech, and/or being PTS to SPs) were not able to make the tech work, so became ARC broken.

Then, there's one the denizens of MS2, who recommended these two Hubbard writings - with the enthusiastic support of his fellows - as an explanation:

'Why people attack Scientology': because they're SPs.

'Critics of Scientology': They're critical because they have hidden crimes (overts.)

Then there is the idea that Earth is inhabited mostly by low quality thetans, and that the high quality thetans are very few.
 

Bill

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: MS2: People attack Scientology because they "couldn’t apply the tech of Scientolo

I so love the True Believers of Scientology.

True-Believer: "Scientology works but only if applied correctly! If it didn't work, it wasn't applied correctly!"

Non-Believer: "There are no Clears. There are no OTs. There have never been Clears as promised by LRH. There have never been OTs as promised by LRH. None."

TB: "Obviously, it has never been applied correctly!"

NB: "How is that a 'workable technology' when it can never be applied 'correctly'?"

TB: "You are an SP! You are a ncg! You are evil! I'm not talking to you any more!"
 

PTS

Elliott
Re: MS2: People attack Scientology because they "couldn’t apply the tech of Scientolo

He lost me in the first sentence when he called a Boeing 777 a dreamliner. If he cannot get a fact that simple correct why bother with the rest?
 

Chris Shelton

Patron with Honors
Re: MS2: People attack Scientology because they "couldn’t apply the tech of Scientolo

The thing that is so frustrating about the Milestone Two people (and by extension, the Scientologists as a whole) is the circular logic they employ.

The tech always works. If it doesn't work, you didn't apply it. The tech always works.​

Circular because the premise and the conclusion are the same. What is missing is evidence.

And then, like a cudgel, they beat you with it until you submit. It's the logic of a 3 year old. And that is L. Ron Hubbard and Scientology logic.

The really frustrating part is that when you try, really try over and over and over again, to give them evidence that is counter to their conclusion, suddenly they develop an acute case of hysterical deafness and blindness. Martiniano even goes so far as to say "I can tell you right now that there are a lot of people who can tell you all about the ARC Triangle but who never successfully used it to get to any Understanding" yet I've never seen a more blatant example of the pot calling the kettle black. Just look at the MS2 website's moderation policy: thou shalt agree with us or we shall not listen to you. Well, from a certain point of view I suppose that's a good way to maintain your world view, but it's pretty weak.

Like the Church of Scientology itself, these guys at MS2 really don't deserve anyone's time or attention because they are dealing in falsehoods and all the generalized, nonsensical illogic that makes Scientology so mind numbing in the first place. I think I mentioned in some earlier thread that the only way they can continue to get any attention at all is by attacking others, and that is exactly what Martiniano is doing with this latest post. Always attack, always be on the offensive. Good job, guys. I can't think of a better way to ensure your own eventual demise.
 

cleared cannibal

Silver Meritorious Patron
Re: MS2: People attack Scientology because they "couldn’t apply the tech of Scientolo

..



LOL. Perfect!

There may even be a third choice. . .
1) Scientology is so difficult to apply correctly that no one is able to apply it correctly, thus making it impractical

2) Scientology doesn't work at all even if applied correctly. Pretty sure #2 is the correct answer.

3) Scientology is a tech that works 100% of the time and people win 100% of the time.

How is #3 possible, you are asking? LOL.

Like this: Assume for a moment that Scientology was a foolproof system for gambling in Las Vegas. The book containing the secrets of how to win 100% of the time costs $ 500,000, even though it is only two pages. The first page explains the tech of why you should always bet on RED. The second page explains the tech of why you should always bet on black.

Anyone who applies the tech always wins. If they don't win, a Scientologist can easily show them that they didn't apply the tech correctly by pointing out that they bet black when the tech clearly says "always bet red" or that they bet red when the tech clearly says "always bet black".

This tech is called The Hubbard Law of Commotion. ("For each and every piece of tech or policy, there is an equal and opposite piece of tech or policy")

I know some people think this is an exaggeration or that I am simply engaging in parody or making a joke. Unfortunately, this is exactly how Scientology tech works and why Scientologists are always proving it works by telling their "win".

Anyone still not sure? LOL. Okay, here you go. . .

"Scientology is the only game in the universe where everyone wins." (L. Ron Hubbard). Get it now? Don't make me come down there. LOL[/QUOTE

This is what I was talking about with all the contradictions . On the tipping point thread the commander said 95% of the Hubs writings were good. I believe if I had the time and energy I could put a lot of these contradictions side by side show that most of his writings are crap(to use his words) if for no other reason that he himself contradicts himself. The Commander says only 5% is crap my estimate is slightly higher.

If one is studying and try make sense of the tech the phrase "catch 22 " comes to mind.
 
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