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MUSICAL CHAIRS - INT BASE STYLE - PART 2

Emma

Con te partirò
Administrator
(Continued from part one - http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=1935 )

Copied from OCMB - http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?p=277639#277639

The music stops and both of them fight for the single seat.

As fate would have it, Lisa Schroer got the seat and Sue was sent to the side.

“A deal is a deal,” Dave Miscavige says to Lisa, “you can stand next to me.”

“The rest of you are not done yet. We still have to figure out where you will all end up going.”

At this point Dave tells everybody to split up into groups of 7 and that no couples can be in any groups. So if both you and your spouse were in the room, you would have to go to different groups so that even once offloaded, you could not be together!

The groups were split into seven separate groups. 10 people in seven groups of ten.

Dave asked the first group where the thought that they should go. Of course none of them could agree on one place as there were 10 different people from 10 completely different places in the world. “Okay, I know how to solve this” Dave has Marj Habshied brought into the room from here office. Marj was working in ESI as the SO#1 I/C. People would right in to ED INT from orgs all over the planet and she would answer them for him. Most of the time he would not even see the responses or even care to read them. This went on for years. Anyway, Marj was fresh on DM’s mind from this flap that had recently come up, so she would decide the fate of ten people today.


DM was also careful to make sure that everyone in the room knew that no one could tip Marj off to what was going on in the room. Everybody needed to put on a happy face and not say ONE SINGLE WORD to Marj when she came in.


Marj walks into the room. Dave asked her if she knows a lot about the different Conts around the world and the state of the Scientology orgs in each. She said that she was very knowledgeable about this as she gets letters from all areas and knows which ones complain about what in each area. Dave asked her to tell him which one that she felt was the worst of all. She hemmed and hawed a bit, but eventually came up with Canada.

Dave had someone sent off to fetch the Org photos binders for Canada that exist in the Landlord office. These photos were weekly updated binders of all orgs and Sea Org units in Canada.

Marj was asked to wait by Dave until the photos arrived. Little did Marj know that she was actually deciding where ten people would end up going after being offloaded tonight.

The photos arrive and sure enough there are pictures of black toilets crusted in filth, 15 beds in a single room at the CLO berthing, Showers with green mold on the tiles, etc. The photos were horrid. In the binder it had said that the CLO had been broken into just a week prior and that the CLO was behind on rent and the crew had not been paid in many weeks. The CLO was not making enough money to purchase food for the crew and some had been working on missions in the orgs so that they could get food and berthing money to support at least themselves.

Dave asked Marj if she was sure that this is the Cont that she considered the worst of all. She agreed and was dismissed. As soon as she left the room and was out of earshot, Dave said that the first group would be going to Canada.

Dave then asked the next group who they thought the most out ethics person on the base was, This person was brought up to the room and then their Cont was picked out.

This went on for at least an hour, Dave reading out things about the Cont, showing the pictures around the room, making sure that everybody could see that any place they went was going to suck and that no matter what, the INT Base was a resort compared to any of these places.

Now all Conts were picked.

1. CANADA
2. AFRICA
3. ANZO
4. PAC
5. EAST US
6. WUS
7. CC INT

The CC Int team was given their Cont by Dave. He had asked that he get to decide one Cont. CC Int did not seem like that bad an area compared to the rest. There had to be a catch. The team assigned to CC INT would be a cleaning team specifically and that is all that they could do. They were a cleaning team that was assigned to ONLY PUBLIC areas and Celeb areas. Dave said that if they were going to get to go to CC they should be able to get to see celebrities and that that he would make sure that they did. “Ashtrays, toilets, trash cans and Celebrities will be your life.“

Just when everybody thought that the torture was over, Dave says “Well, you have got to have uniforms too”

Dave then asked the CC INT team if they could think of someone who they thought was hip or cool. Becket Wells was brought up as a person that was up on the latest fashions and styles. “Good” Dave says, “get him up here.”

Dave makes sure everyone knows that the same rules apply; NO ONE tells Becket what is happening or says anything to him at all. ONLY Dave is allowed to talk to him.

Becket walks in and Dave tell him that we are all doing an exercise and that Dave wants him to pick out some uniform parts for some crew to wear. He asks Becket to describe the most hideous outfit that anyone would ever want to wear.

The outfit would end up being:

1. Pink running shoes
2. White socks that went past the knee
3. A huge Cowboy belt buckle
4. Bright green short shorts
5. A pirate shirt with 4 inch black buttons on the chest
6. Fluorescent yellow waist pack
7. Red Riding hood - hood


“That is Hideous” Dave said and then thanked Becket for his help.

As Becket left the room, Dave Miscavige turned to the CC Int team and said that that would be their uniform and that they had to wear it whenever they were in ANY public areas. He also specifically added that they could not EVER pick trash up with any sort of tool. It always hand to be handled with the hands, same with ashtrays, they were to dig the butts out with their bare hands and no tools could ever be used except in the case of toilets or urinals - they could use a sponge or greenies, but no gloves or extended brushes.

Just when we thought it all was over and we could at least get off to out Conts. Dave asked that each group pick one person amongst themselves that everybody could agree was the worst of the pack. The most out ethics, most disliked whatever. The least liked person from each group was singled out. By this time, how could it get any worse?

Dave said that each of these most disliked people would be writing the issue assigning one OTHER group to the Cont they were being sent to! And it would be signed COMMANDER.

So Mark Ingber who was going to Canada, was writing the issue for the PAC group and it was going to be coming from COMMANDER MARK INGBER. This was being done for all the groups and everybody had an issue that was being written by someone who was also being offloaded, but just not to the same area!

Each group had their issues written up by hand. Each group was then charged with getting the issues proofread, typed and copied and ready for distribution.

Once all this was done. Dave gave everybody a final pep talk. He asked if anyone had anything to say. NO one did. He said that the buses would be ready to leave at 6AM. It was now 1AM. Each person would need to be ready to go and NO items would be going with them except for the clothes on their backs.

Of course, anyone with spouses had already secured for the night, anyone who had friends, family, co-workers or people that they wanted to talk to before leaving were unable to be contacted. The buses would be long gone BEFORE any of these people would be coming in for post.

All of the phones were ripped out of the room so that no calls could be made to other parts of the base where staff might be working late. All communication lines were cut. About 30 minutes after the meeting had ended, there were a few people saying how this was the “last chance people would have to make things right in their S.O. careers” and that “if they made the Conts expand, they probably would be able to come back to the Int Base one day far, far in the future.”

An hour later, all the different groups had found their way back to their little space under a desk or in a chair and most people had gone to sleep for the night. Sobs and faint crying could be heard for hours throughout the room. If you were not crying yourself to sleep that night, someone else was doing the crying for you.


THE MORNING AFTER:


The crew were rounded up and mustered. Change of plans. NO ONE IS GOING ANYWHERE! Turns out it is going to cost a fortune to fly all of these people all over the place and the logistics were not finalized on how everybody would be shipped off to the different Conts. Dave had called down late during the night and said that he was not willing to waste one money single cent of Church money dealing with the Int Base SPs

Some people might end up going later in the day, and some might end up going that night providing everything was properly worked out.

The day went by painfully slow. No one knew who was doing the logistics workouts and no one was leaving the “SP room”. It was just more torture, everyone waiting, but nothing they could do.

Days would go by and nothing ever happened. Dave Miscavige actually ended up leaving the base and going off somewhere for a Legal Case and the whole thing sort of faded away. Everybody just assumed that whenever the logistics got worked out, they would get shipped off to their Cont and until then they would make the best of it.

Later we would all find out that NO ONE HAD EVER WORKED OUT ANY FLIGHTS, COSTS, OR ANYTHING. It was all just one big pile of shit. Dave Miscavige never intended for anyone to leave, be offloaded to ANY Conts or wear ridiculous outfits while scrubbing urinals by hand. But he wanted us to all think that we were!


More than TWO YEARS LATER, the SP ROOM, SP HALL or whatever you want to call it is filled with pretty much the same people that played Musical Chairs that one night. Those who could blow, did. Those who played it smart DID actually get offloaded to some Conts then blew from there. But there are still many left:


1. Arbuckle, Mary – ex Typesetter I/T R Comps
2. Bellin, Russ – ex CO CST
3. Biggs (Knapmeyer), Alison – ex R Comps Programs Ops
4. Blankenship, Angie – ex COB Project Ops, Local Programs Ops
5. Bloomberg, Dave – ex MEI, ED ASI
6. Bolstad, Pam – ex CO’s Comm CST
7. Buglewicz, Pat Lawrence – ex Incomm Rep Int
8. Cruzen, Richard Gilman – All–around man (has been Audio Prod Sec, Manufacturing Sec, R Comps Sec, CMU Sec,
AVEI, RAV, etc.) most successful as Audio Mixer
9. Greilich, Russ Lyle – ex LRH Lecture Mix I/C, Audio Prod Sec
10. Hughes, Gregory Kenneth Snr. – ex Int Finance Dir, GIEI, WDC WISE
11. Ingber, Liz – ex Admin Compiler, CO CMO Gold
12. Ingber, Mark Allen – ex Admin Comps I/C R Comps, CO CMOI, WDC Pubs
13. Jaramillo (Yager), Michelle Lynette – ex Book Editor RComps, Proofreading I/C, Port Captain CMOI, Snr
Messenger
14. Jentzsch, Heber – ex President CoS
15. Koon, Susan Jane – ex Compilations Dir RComps (RTRC Dir)
16. Lemmer, Kathy – ex CO Incomm, CO Gold
17. Lemoine, Robert – ex Dir Maintenance & Policing Incomm Int
18. Leserve, Guillaume – ex ED Int
19. Light, Janet – ex President IASA
20. Linson (DeVocht), Jenny – ex CO CMOI, CO CMO CW
21. Mason, Aron – ex IMPR Scriptwriter, IMPR, Dir PR OSA I, Freedom Mag Editor OSA I
22. Mithoff, Raymond H. – ex IG Tech, Snr C/S Int, Tech Compiler RComps
23. Moresi, Bruno – ex Int Project 4th CST
24. Reynolds, Wendell A. – ex Berthing Construction I/C, Int Finance Dir, CO Gold
25. Rinder, Catherine Albertina – ex R Comps Tape Editor, Compiler, D/CO Prod CMOI
26. Schless, Peter Harrison – ex Music Dir Gold, Freedom Medal Winner
27. Schwartzgruber, Rita – ex ED Int, CO CMO IXU?
28. Spurlock, Lyman Doyle jr. – ex Int Finance Dir, Building 36 Sanitation Engineer, RTC Legal man without a post title
29. Starkey, Norman F – ex MCI Cleaner, AVC Aide, Trustee ASI
30. Swartz, Fredric Samuel – ex Shrinkwrap Operator Dissem, GIEI
31. Tisi (Feshback, Charbonneau), Katherine – ex Qual Sec Gold
32. Trussell, Bert – ex Int Project 3rd CST
33. Weiland, Kurt – ex CO OSA Int, CO CMOI
34. Weinberg, Rena – ex ED ABLE Int, Freedom Medal Winner
35. Wheelis, Michele – ex O/O CST
36. Wilhere, Sue – ex Compilations Dir R Comps
37. Willis, Tom – ex Dir R&D CST
38. Vorm, Tom – ex D/CO Prod CST
39. Yager, Marc A. – ex IMPR Events Execution Off,CO CMOI, D/CO Prod CMOI, IG Admin, Snr Messenger



In my next post, I will tell exactly how to get a family member or friend out of the Int Base. How could I know? I have done it with three people so far and it works every time.

Until next time…
BFG
 

Bea Kiddo

Crusader
This really pisses me off and makes me want to use a lot of swear words.

I feel for myself, I have healed to what degree I can. Now this. Man.

If I can help any of these people, PLEASE let me. What a mess.

I cant believe I supported that asshole in any way. (scuse my lingo)
 

ozzie

Patron with Honors
OMG! This pisses me off more than anything! I have family there - quite a lot - I want them OUT!!!!

I wish BFG posted here - I want to know right now how to get my family out.

It's unreal knowing that these people have been in that situation for over two years now. Some of those names are of "high ups" or used to bes. How degrading and how cruel DM is - no wonder he used to be called Little Hitler. I bet he still is but under everyone's breath.


:furious:
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
OMG! This pisses me off more than anything! I have family there - quite a lot - I want them OUT!!!!

I wish BFG posted here - I want to know right now how to get my family out.

It's unreal knowing that these people have been in that situation for over two years now. Some of those names are of "high ups" or used to bes. How degrading and how cruel DM is - no wonder he used to be called Little Hitler. I bet he still is but under everyone's breath.


:furious:

That is just so disgusting. I wish some videos of this sort of thing could be released. Good for you BFG!!

Ozzie I hope someone can help you with that.

:angry:
 

Lulu Belle

Moonbat
New from BFG - MUSICAL CHAIRS INT BASE STYLE PART II

Sorry! I didn't mean to duplicate Emma's post.
 
Last edited:

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?t=24064


######PART 2 STARTS HERE##################
######PART 2 STARTS HERE##################
######PART 2 STARTS HERE##################


The music stops and both of them fight for the single seat.

As fate would have it, Lisa Schroer got the seat and Sue was sent to the side.

“A deal is a deal,” Dave Miscavige says to Lisa, “you can stand next to me.”

“The rest of you are not done yet. We still have to figure out where you will all end up going.”

At this point Dave tells everybody to split up into groups of 7 and that no couples can be in any groups. So if both you and your spouse were in the room, you would have to go to different groups so that even once offloaded, you could not be together!

The groups were split into seven separate groups. 10 people in seven groups of ten.

Dave asked the first group where the thought that they should go. Of course none of them could agree on one place as there were 10 different people from 10 completely different places in the world. “Okay, I know how to solve this” Dave has Marj Habshied brought into the room from here office. Marj was working in ESI as the SO#1 I/C. People would right in to ED INT from orgs all over the planet and she would answer them for him. Most of the time he would not even see the responses or even care to read them. This went on for years. Anyway, Marj was fresh on DM’s mind from this flap that had recently come up, so she would decide the fate of ten people today.


DM was also careful to make sure that everyone in the room knew that no one could tip Marj off to what was going on in the room. Everybody needed to put on a happy face and not say ONE SINGLE WORD to Marj when she came in.


Marj walks into the room. Dave asked her if she knows a lot about the different Conts around the world and the state of the Scientology orgs in each. She said that she was very knowledgeable about this as she gets letters from all areas and knows which ones complain about what in each area. Dave asked her to tell him which one that she felt was the worst of all. She hemmed and hawed a bit, but eventually came up with Canada.

Dave had someone sent off to fetch the Org photos binders for Canada that exist in the Landlord office. These photos were weekly updated binders of all orgs and Sea Org units in Canada.

Marj was asked to wait by Dave until the photos arrived. Little did Marj know that she was actually deciding where ten people would end up going after being offloaded tonight.

The photos arrive and sure enough there are pictures of black toilets crusted in filth, 15 beds in a single room at the CLO berthing, Showers with green mold on the tiles, etc. The photos were horrid. In the binder it had said that the CLO had been broken into just a week prior and that the CLO was behind on rent and the crew had not been paid in many weeks. The CLO was not making enough money to purchase food for the crew and some had been working on missions in the orgs so that they could get food and berthing money to support at least themselves.

Dave asked Marj if she was sure that this is the Cont that she considered the worst of all. She agreed and was dismissed. As soon as she left the room and was out of earshot, Dave said that the first group would be going to Canada.

Dave then asked the next group who they thought the most out ethics person on the base was, This person was brought up to the room and then their Cont was picked out.

This went on for at least an hour, Dave reading out things about the Cont, showing the pictures around the room, making sure that everybody could see that any place they went was going to suck and that no matter what, the INT Base was a resort compared to any of these places.

Now all Conts were picked.

1. CANADA
2. AFRICA
3. ANZO
4. PAC
5. EAST US
6. WUS
7. CC INT

The CC Int team was given their Cont by Dave. He had asked that he get to decide one Cont. CC Int did not seem like that bad an area compared to the rest. There had to be a catch. The team assigned to CC INT would be a cleaning team specifically and that is all that they could do. They were a cleaning team that was assigned to ONLY PUBLIC areas and Celeb areas. Dave said that if they were going to get to go to CC they should be able to get to see celebrities and that that he would make sure that they did. “Ashtrays, toilets, trash cans and Celebrities will be your life.“

Just when everybody thought that the torture was over, Dave says “Well, you have got to have uniforms too”

Dave then asked the CC INT team if they could think of someone who they thought was hip or cool. Becket Wells was brought up as a person that was up on the latest fashions and styles. “Good” Dave says, “get him up here.”

Dave makes sure everyone knows that the same rules apply; NO ONE tells Becket what is happening or says anything to him at all. ONLY Dave is allowed to talk to him.

Becket walks in and Dave tell him that we are all doing an exercise and that Dave wants him to pick out some uniform parts for some crew to wear. He asks Becket to describe the most hideous outfit that anyone would ever want to wear.

The outfit would end up being:

1. Pink running shoes
2. White socks that went past the knee
3. A huge Cowboy belt buckle
4. Bright green short shorts
5. A pirate shirt with 4 inch black buttons on the chest
6. Fluorescent yellow waist pack
7. Red Riding hood - hood


“That is Hideous” Dave said and then thanked Becket for his help.

As Becket left the room, Dave Miscavige turned to the CC Int team and said that that would be their uniform and that they had to wear it whenever they were in ANY public areas. He also specifically added that they could not EVER pick trash up with any sort of tool. It always hand to be handled with the hands, same with ashtrays, they were to dig the butts out with their bare hands and no tools could ever be used except in the case of toilets or urinals - they could use a sponge or greenies, but no gloves or extended brushes.

Just when we thought it all was over and we could at least get off to out Conts. Dave asked that each group pick one person amongst themselves that everybody could agree was the worst of the pack. The most out ethics, most disliked whatever. The least liked person from each group was singled out. By this time, how could it get any worse?

Dave said that each of these most disliked people would be writing the issue assigning one OTHER group to the Cont they were being sent to! And it would be signed COMMANDER.

So Mark Ingber who was going to Canada, was writing the issue for the PAC group and it was going to be coming from COMMANDER MARK INGBER. This was being done for all the groups and everybody had an issue that was being written by someone who was also being offloaded, but just not to the same area!

Each group had their issues written up by hand. Each group was then charged with getting the issues proofread, typed and copied and ready for distribution.

Once all this was done. Dave gave everybody a final pep talk. He asked if anyone had anything to say. NO one did. He said that the buses would be ready to leave at 6AM. It was now 1AM. Each person would need to be ready to go and NO items would be going with them except for the clothes on their backs.

Of course, anyone with spouses had already secured for the night, anyone who had friends, family, co-workers or people that they wanted to talk to before leaving were unable to be contacted. The buses would be long gone BEFORE any of these people would be coming in for post.

All of the phones were ripped out of the room so that no calls could be made to other parts of the base where staff might be working late. All communication lines were cut. About 30 minutes after the meeting had ended, there were a few people saying how this was the “last chance people would have to make things right in their S.O. careers” and that “if they made the Conts expand, they probably would be able to come back to the Int Base one day far, far in the future.”

An hour later, all the different groups had found their way back to their little space under a desk or in a chair and most people had gone to sleep for the night. Sobs and faint crying could be heard for hours throughout the room. If you were not crying yourself to sleep that night, someone else was doing the crying for you.


THE MORNING AFTER:


The crew were rounded up and mustered. Change of plans. NO ONE IS GOING ANYWHERE! Turns out it is going to cost a fortune to fly all of these people all over the place and the logistics were not finalized on how everybody would be shipped off to the different Conts. Dave had called down late during the night and said that he was not willing to waste one money single cent of Church money dealing with the Int Base SPs

Some people might end up going later in the day, and some might end up going that night providing everything was properly worked out.

The day went by painfully slow. No one knew who was doing the logistics workouts and no one was leaving the “SP room”. It was just more torture, everyone waiting, but nothing they could do.

Days would go by and nothing ever happened. Dave Miscavige actually ended up leaving the base and going off somewhere for a Legal Case and the whole thing sort of faded away. Everybody just assumed that whenever the logistics got worked out, they would get shipped off to their Cont and until then they would make the best of it.

Later we would all find out that NO ONE HAD EVER WORKED OUT ANY FLIGHTS, COSTS, OR ANYTHING. It was all just one big pile of shit. Dave Miscavige never intended for anyone to leave, be offloaded to ANY Conts or wear ridiculous outfits while scrubbing urinals by hand. But he wanted us to all think that we were!


More than TWO YEARS LATER, the SP ROOM, SP HALL or whatever you want to call it is filled with pretty much the same people that played Musical Chairs that one night. Those who could blow, did. Those who played it smart DID actually get offloaded to some Conts then blew from there. But there are still many left:


1. Arbuckle, Mary – ex Typesetter I/T R Comps
2. Bellin, Russ – ex CO CST
3. Biggs (Knapmeyer), Alison – ex R Comps Programs Ops
4. Blankenship, Angie – ex COB Project Ops, Local Programs Ops
5. Bloomberg, Dave – ex MEI, ED ASI
6. Bolstad, Pam – ex CO’s Comm CST
7. Buglewicz, Pat Lawrence – ex Incomm Rep Int
8. Cruzen, Richard Gilman – All–around man (has been Audio Prod Sec, Manufacturing Sec, R Comps Sec, CMU Sec,
AVEI, RAV, etc.) most successful as Audio Mixer
9. Greilich, Russ Lyle – ex LRH Lecture Mix I/C, Audio Prod Sec
10. Hughes, Gregory Kenneth Snr. – ex Int Finance Dir, GIEI, WDC WISE
11. Ingber, Liz – ex Admin Compiler, CO CMO Gold
12. Ingber, Mark Allen – ex Admin Comps I/C R Comps, CO CMOI, WDC Pubs
13. Jaramillo (Yager), Michelle Lynette – ex Book Editor RComps, Proofreading I/C, Port Captain CMOI, Snr
Messenger
14. Jentzsch, Heber – ex President CoS
15. Koon, Susan Jane – ex Compilations Dir RComps (RTRC Dir)
16. Lemmer, Kathy – ex CO Incomm, CO Gold
17. Lemoine, Robert – ex Dir Maintenance & Policing Incomm Int
18. Leserve, Guillaume – ex ED Int
19. Light, Janet – ex President IASA
20. Linson (DeVocht), Jenny – ex CO CMOI, CO CMO CW
21. Mason, Aron – ex IMPR Scriptwriter, IMPR, Dir PR OSA I, Freedom Mag Editor OSA I
22. Mithoff, Raymond H. – ex IG Tech, Snr C/S Int, Tech Compiler RComps
23. Moresi, Bruno – ex Int Project 4th CST
24. Reynolds, Wendell A. – ex Berthing Construction I/C, Int Finance Dir, CO Gold
25. Rinder, Catherine Albertina – ex R Comps Tape Editor, Compiler, D/CO Prod CMOI
26. Schless, Peter Harrison – ex Music Dir Gold, Freedom Medal Winner
27. Schwartzgruber, Rita – ex ED Int, CO CMO IXU?
28. Spurlock, Lyman Doyle jr. – ex Int Finance Dir, Building 36 Sanitation Engineer, RTC Legal man without a post title
29. Starkey, Norman F – ex MCI Cleaner, AVC Aide, Trustee ASI
30. Swartz, Fredric Samuel – ex Shrinkwrap Operator Dissem, GIEI
31. Tisi (Feshback, Charbonneau), Katherine – ex Qual Sec Gold
32. Trussell, Bert – ex Int Project 3rd CST
33. Weiland, Kurt – ex CO OSA Int, CO CMOI
34. Weinberg, Rena – ex ED ABLE Int, Freedom Medal Winner
35. Wheelis, Michele – ex O/O CST
36. Wilhere, Sue – ex Compilations Dir R Comps
37. Willis, Tom – ex Dir R&D CST
38. Vorm, Tom – ex D/CO Prod CST
39. Yager, Marc A. – ex IMPR Events Execution Off,CO CMOI, D/CO Prod CMOI, IG Admin, Snr Messenger



In my next post, I will tell exactly how to get a family member or friend out of the Int Base. How could I know? I have done it with three people so far and it works every time.

Until next time…
BFG

Oh my God.

Something needs to be done about this guy!
 

Div6

Crusader
Another Barftacular insight into the mad mad world of david miscavige....
I am so glad I am not "there".
 

Alan

Gold Meritorious Patron
Another Barftacular insight into the mad mad world of david miscavige....
I am so glad I am not "there".

So is David Miscavige! - "not there!"

Perfect example of a created as artificial identity in its out of control power identity - dramatizing its evil power out of control opterm side!
 

Div6

Crusader
Using "ethics" to make others wrong is an *overt* ----mmmmkay?
Cause it isn't *ethics* anymore BY DEFINITION, as *ETHICS* is the actions an individual TAKES ON HIM\HER Self.


Really.
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
Using "ethics" to make others wrong is an *overt* ----mmmmkay?
Cause it isn't *ethics* anymore BY DEFINITION, as *ETHICS* is the actions an individual TAKES ON HIM\HER Self.


Really.

Even though Hubbard made this distinction between ethics and morals, I don;t see at any time in history where he ever followed it.

What's the missing ideal scene here?

An ethics section that is wholly inward facing. A place where you go to sort yourself out. Never a place that goes out trolling for business "getting ethics in" on others.

That would be a "Morals Section", wouldn't it?

So why didn't Hubbard ever follow this ideal scene?

Because he couldn't trust other people. He was in a constant games condition with them, and hiding it from them. He was constantly placing definitions out to people that served as prestidigitations for what he was really doing to them.

One of the best things about Scientology for me was the idea of "ethics": A place for redemption where you could go and sort yourself out with the tools provided. Since believing is seeing, while I believed that, that's what I saw.

But what I saw and what was being done were almost always two different things. I don't know if human beings can resist the temptation to exploit others' hope of redemption. Hubbard certainly took every vulnerability he could find in people and exploited everything out of it he could.

In not being able to trust his fellow earthlings, Hubbard committed one of the largest breaches of trust that I have ever experienced. And getting over that breach of trust is a very hard thing for me to do.

I hope that one day, I can have what I consider a place of redemption again.

Right now, I'm very much on the lookout for more breaches of trust. And I'm probably not going to find any redemption anywhere as long as I am doing that.
 

Vinaire

Sponsor
Even though Hubbard made this distinction between ethics and morals, I don;t see at any time in history where he ever followed it.

What's the missing ideal scene here?

An ethics section that is wholly inward facing. A place where you go to sort yourself out. Never a place that goes out trolling for business "getting ethics in" on others.

That would be a "Morals Section" that did that, wouldn't it?

So why didn't Hubbard ever follow this ideal scene?

Because he couldn't trust other people. He was in a constant games condition with them, and hiding it from them. Placing definitions out to people that served as prestidigitations for what he was really doing to them.

One of the best things about Scientology for me was the idea of "ethics". A place for redemption where you could go and sort yourself out with the tools provided. While I believed that, that's what I saw.

But what I saw and what was being done were always two different things.

In not being able to trust his fellow earthlings, Hubbard committed one of the largest breaches of trust that I have ever experienced. And getting over that breach of trust is a very hard thing for me to do.

I hope that one day, I can have what I consider a place of redemption again.

Right now, I'm very much on the lookout for more breaches of trust. And I'm probably not going to find any redemption anywhere as long as I am doing that.

Excellent points are made here by Alanzo!

.
 

Bea Kiddo

Crusader
I think there are degrees of ethics. It seems to me that there are certainly situations where ethics does need to be applied.

It is just heavly overused in the church, and in the Sea Org. And it is also used to alter a persons view of things. Kinda force him to change his mind about something he would not normally change his mind about (which honestly, if I were a C/S and sent someone to ethics, lets say for doing something that was stopping his auditing progress, all I would expect is a slap on the wrist and a "stop that please while you are being audited" and then handle with auditing. I would wonder what happened to the pc after several days of ethics and go check on it with the EO. Invariably, they were doing RPEC, A to E, huge amends projects, etc etc. I would cancel it all, which C/Ses can do, and slap the EO around to do what I asked in the first place and then send the pc back to session.)

Since this is about the SO members uplines, I would like to add a point on that: Sea Org members ARE abberated just like the rest of society. They do not get audited to fix it. They get ethics to restrain it. And ethics only goes so far.

It is a huge flaw in the system. And it will never work, in the long run.

Just like cars and machines break down and need maintenance, so do people.

And that is totally ignored in this church.

----

If they want to get free and come out, I (and maybe others here too) would be happy to help and deal with that maintenance.
 

nexus100

Gold Meritorious Patron
I think there are degrees of ethics. It seems to me that there are certainly situations where ethics does need to be applied.

It is just heavly overused in the church, and in the Sea Org. And it is also used to alter a persons view of things. Kinda force him to change his mind about something he would not normally change his mind about (which honestly, if I were a C/S and sent someone to ethics, lets say for doing something that was stopping his auditing progress, all I would expect is a slap on the wrist and a "stop that please while you are being audited" and then handle with auditing. I would wonder what happened to the pc after several days of ethics and go check on it with the EO. Invariably, they were doing RPEC, A to E, huge amends projects, etc etc. I would cancel it all, which C/Ses can do, and slap the EO around to do what I asked in the first place and then send the pc back to session.)

Since this is about the SO members uplines, I would like to add a point on that: Sea Org members ARE abberated just like the rest of society. They do not get audited to fix it. They get ethics to restrain it. And ethics only goes so far.

It is a huge flaw in the system. And it will never work, in the long run.

Just like cars and machines break down and need maintenance, so do people.

And that is totally ignored in this church.

----

If they want to get free and come out, I (and maybe others here too) would be happy to help and deal with that maintenance.

I wonder if auditing, even when successful (no invalidation intended here, just looking at history) really "handles" ethics. Ethics is designed in SCN as a solution to group dynamics, IMO. It way way overemphasizes the importance of the group, which creates a cesspool of group think. You simply can't ever ever ever determine another person's ethics for them. Even helping them with it would be pretty risky, because the only way a person ever finds the truth is if it is his/her truth, ALONE. Group truth does not exist. Without individuals with their own accepted truths composing the group, you have compromised beings. If that makes it tougher to have "true" groups, that's life. Or maybe true groups are not very close to what COS ethics would have us believe.
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
I wonder if auditing, even when successful (no invalidation intended here, just looking at history) really "handles" ethics. Ethics is designed in SCN as a solution to group dynamics, IMO. It way way overemphasizes the importance of the group, which creates a cesspool of group think. You simply can't ever ever ever determine another person's ethics for them. Even helping them with it would be pretty risky, because the only way a person ever finds the truth is if it is his/her truth, ALONE. Group truth does not exist. Without individuals with their own accepted truths composing the group, you have compromised beings. If that makes it tougher to have "true" groups, that's life. Or maybe true groups are not very close to what COS ethics would have us believe.

Agreed. The major problem with Scientology Ethics (besides being called 'Ethics') is that it's *Scientology* Ethics. It exists to serve Scientology; the organization and the movement. Sure, the 'formulas' can be applied elsewhere, but, the system itself is not intended to serve the individual.

How it's actually *applied* is even worse.

Zinj
 

Tanstaafl

Crusader
I wonder if auditing, even when successful (no invalidation intended here, just looking at history) really "handles" ethics. Ethics is designed in SCN as a solution to group dynamics, IMO. It way way overemphasizes the importance of the group, which creates a cesspool of group think. You simply can't ever ever ever determine another person's ethics for them. Even helping them with it would be pretty risky, because the only way a person ever finds the truth is if it is his/her truth, ALONE. Group truth does not exist. Without individuals with their own accepted truths composing the group, you have compromised beings. If that makes it tougher to have "true" groups, that's life. Or maybe true groups are not very close to what COS ethics would have us believe.

Which leads me to the question: If a Scn public followed the Code of Honor broadly , thoroughly, without exceptions; would they fly up The Bridge or would they spend all their time parked in ethics?
 

nexus100

Gold Meritorious Patron
Which leads me to the question: If a Scn public followed the Code of Honor broadly , thoroughly, without exceptions; would they fly up The Bridge or would they spend all their time parked in ethics?

Duh!


I just had to do that.
 

Bea Kiddo

Crusader
I wonder if auditing, even when successful (no invalidation intended here, just looking at history) really "handles" ethics. Ethics is designed in SCN as a solution to group dynamics, IMO. It way way overemphasizes the importance of the group, which creates a cesspool of group think. You simply can't ever ever ever determine another person's ethics for them. Even helping them with it would be pretty risky, because the only way a person ever finds the truth is if it is his/her truth, ALONE. Group truth does not exist. Without individuals with their own accepted truths composing the group, you have compromised beings. If that makes it tougher to have "true" groups, that's life. Or maybe true groups are not very close to what COS ethics would have us believe.


For the most part, I would say that auditing does not change the being. It makes them more right. Sometimes that can be a good thing, sometimes not.

Like for example, if someone came in who was homosexual (no offense intended) and someone wanted that handled on him (rarely the pc wants that handled), all the auditing would end up doing is make him more right for his decision to be homosexual.

I have never seen auditing turn someone around. Like in this case, make a straight person out of a homosexual.

They may SAY something in session, that makes it appear that he has changed. But who is following him/her around at night to check the results, eh?
 
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