My communication with Marty Rathburn

[byte301]

Read her other post. I think it's a kid or someone who doesn't know english well. (like a scientology school graduate).

That's why I gave her leeway. Her first post seemed okay. I think she may have just mis-posted or was joking and we didn't get it.

Dunno.:confused2: Waiting to hear back from her.

Markus has just been through so much...

 

[Markus]

I agree here. I think it is very nice. You're right, Mark. Some people wake up and take responsibility. Marty is one of them.

Well Allison I think you just wanted to quote the post of byte: "You're right, Markus. Some people will never wake up or take responsibility. Marty is one of those." and forgot to enter the word "never" before "wake up". I'm sure you meant it well. Thank you for this post!

Love

Markus

 

[skollie]

If that's what she meant to post, then I do apologize.

 

[Bee Sting]

If that's what she meant to post, then I do apologize.

Yes, let's give her a chance..

So, Allison Do you have a story to tell us? And, welcome!

Markus,

I am so disappointed Marty has not responded to you. Well, now I need to be quiet because .. well, because.

My heart goes out to you and the pain you and your family has endured.

To you and your family Keep fighting!

Honey Love,

Bee Sting

 

[Markus]

Well.... because of what....?

Yes, let's give her a chance..

So, Allison Do you have a story to tell us? And, welcome!

Markus,

I am so disappointed Marty has not responded to you. Well, now I need to be quiet because .. well, because.

My heart goes out to you and the pain you and your family has endured.

To you and your family Keep fighting!

Honey Love,

Bee Sting

Why do you need to be quiet Bee? May you please send me an e-mail and explain this to me.

Love

Markus

 

[Bee Sting]

Why do you need to be quiet Bee? May you please send me an e-mail and explain this to me.

Love

Markus

Because I get stingy Bee mad and when one has nothing nice to say - don't say anything. I'd get in trouble. Ok, let me try to explain, I will Marty credit for speaking up and creating a stir. Credit is due where credit is due, creating a stir and atttention. His actions has caused attention.. so there is positive in this, on the other hand I do know what it is to be subject to cruel treatments and by others (specifically SO members.) I don't subscribe to the feeling I get reading his blogs that the "tech" is workable and good. LRH's "tech" was based upon untruths because LRH wanted credit for his "discoveries" but in truth, LRH "discovered" much of nothing.

So, it makes me stingy mad that Marty is not owning up to what the might know and tell you. You need to know. If he knows little or much is irrelevant, whatever it is he knows, he is not just making the effort. He should make the effort!

So, that is like a parrallell with LRH, (Marty) getting credit for speaking out but.. is he (Marty) living up to his new "fame?"

Ok, I do understand the situation that SO members that are in and when "in" the fold, we do things we otherwise may not agree with however, like LRH said, the only way out is through.. so, let's go through this one Marty, fess up and be done with it. Take responsibility, good, bad or indifferent. That is the only way out and the road to healing.

"Forgiveness is the Greatness of every heart", in a Bee Sting poem circa 1990.

Honey Love,

Bee Sting

 

[AnonyMary]

This is how marty Rathburn used this message board to bring forward his agenda:.. Markus

Marcus, You wrote this before it became apparent that Marty is hostile towards critics of scientology. He probably labeled your email as being from a 'hater and blamer' as he's done to anyone posting anti-scintology content on his blog.

Now, I know quite a few people who wrote letters to him during that time who received no answer and the element of 'opposition to scientology' was evident in all their letters. I decided to see what would happen if I wrote him a letter without any opinion on scientology, asking him in a brief letter if he's ever been able to get his brother on lines, since, per his brother. Mark had said in one of the SP Times video interviews that he's gotten into scientology while looking to help his brother while he'd been a patient in a mental institution at the time. I also asked how it was that this brother, named Bruce had died.

I got a reply with fast answersand without much comment.

Why not try writing him again, just asking him to tell you all you know he knew about your brother's situation, if he knew anything to begin with. Do so using a different mail address to send it from.
Once you get a letter sent, wait and then reply to the reply. This will help you get him talking and take his attention off his paranoia of critics.

To this day, he usually allows my sometimes pointed posts. You may not get all the information you need from him at the start but anything is better than nothing.

I wish you all the best,
Mary MC Connell

 

[Markus]

Thank you!

Marcus, You wrote this before it became apparent that Marty is hostile towards critics of scientology. He probably labeled your email as being from a 'hater and blamer' as he's done to anyone posting anti-scintology content on his blog.

Now, I know quite a few people who wrote letters to him during that time who received no answer and the element of 'opposition to scientology' was evident in all their letters. I decided to see what would happen if I wrote him a letter without any opinion on scientology, asking him in a brief letter if he's ever been able to get his brother on lines, since, per his brother. Mark had said in one of the SP Times video interviews that he's gotten into scientology while looking to help his brother while he'd been a patient in a mental institution at the time. I also asked how it was that this brother, named Bruce had died.

I got a reply with fast answersand without much comment.

Why not try writing him again, just asking him to tell you all you know he knew about your brother's situation, if he knew anything to begin with. Do so using a different mail address to send it from.
Once you get a letter sent, wait and then reply to the reply. This will help you get him talking and take his attention off his paranoia of critics.

To this day, he usually allows my sometimes pointed posts. You may not get all the information you need from him at the start but anything is better than nothing.

I wish you all the best,
Mary MC Connell

Thank you so much for this very good advice.

Love

Markus

 

[Markus]

I love Bee - style

Because I get stingy Bee mad and when one has nothing nice to say - don't say anything. I'd get in trouble. Ok, let me try to explain, I will Marty credit for speaking up and creating a stir. Credit is due where credit is due, creating a stir and atttention. His actions has caused attention.. so there is positive in this, on the other hand I do know what it is to be subject to cruel treatments and by others (specifically SO members.) I don't subscribe to the feeling I get reading his blogs that the "tech" is workable and good. LRH's "tech" was based upon untruths because LRH wanted credit for his "discoveries" but in truth, LRH "discovered" much of nothing.

So, it makes me stingy mad that Marty is not owning up to what the might know and tell you. You need to know. If he knows little or much is irrelevant, whatever it is he knows, he is not just making the effort. He should make the effort!

So, that is like a parrallell with LRH, (Marty) getting credit for speaking out but.. is he (Marty) living up to his new "fame?"

Ok, I do understand the situation that SO members that are in and when "in" the fold, we do things we otherwise may not agree with however, like LRH said, the only way out is through.. so, let's go through this one Marty, fess up and be done with it. Take responsibility, good, bad or indifferent. That is the only way out and the road to healing.

"Forgiveness is the Greatness of every heart", in a Bee Sting poem circa 1990.

Honey Love,

Bee Sting

Oh Bee - you are so cool - I really love your style.

Much love

Markus

 

[Markus]

Markus

Marty IS the morass he is whining about. This!He helped create it, he enthusiastically played in it, dragged many others into it and happily forced them to live in it.

Your chances of receiving anything like a real response are slim and none - and slim left town a long time ago.

Love

Markus

 

[bts2free]

Credit is due where credit is due, creating a stir and atttention. His actions has caused attention.. so there is positive in this, on the other hand I do know what it is to be subject to cruel treatments and...

Hey Stinger,

Does creating a stir and causing attention always have to be a positive thing?

 

[Zinjifar]

Hey Stinger,

Does creating a stir and causing attention always have to be a positive thing?

Well, in Marty's case the 'stir' is about deflecting attention; as in 'red herring'.

It's like the guy getting a fixit ticket for his broken tail-light confessing volubly so the cop won't ask to look in the trunk where the body is.

What body! There *are* no bodies! What are you!??? some kind of hater?

Zinj

 

[Markus]

Just to remind everybody how long I've been waiting...

This is how marty Rathburn used this message board to bring forward his agenda:

"7.Ferbruary 2009

I'm interested in folks who are interested in moving out of the morass. Check my webpage at http://rathbunmark.topcities.com/. "



This was my aswer to this "communication"

"11.February 2009

Hi Marty

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think it is very nice of you to offer your help.
Well maybe you can help me too.
While spending myself many years in and with my family connected to Scientology I observed that Scientology doesn't work. In fact it destroyed my family. It is not useful to live a happy life. Many many statements Mr. Hubbard made are so very contradictory. Somewhere he is talking and laughing about stupid wise men sitting in their ivory towers and on the other side he creates the Sea Org so isolatet from the real world as the leading organisation of Scientology. Was he so stupid or was he so clever? This is what I'm asking myself all the time. But as I said before - there are no successtories in and with Scientology when I look at what Scientology did to my family. If you read my thread about my brothers suffering and death in the Sea Org you may find out what I mean. And maybe you knew Uwe and can help me to find out more about his tragic suffering and death. I will not pay you any money for that but maybe you can do it anyway just because you see that the Philosophy which LRH and the CoS are promoting over this planet is leading to so many violations of human rights, is destroying families and free life for so many staff members and even causes death. If you can't see that you on your post have caused so much pain too - well then I think you will never be able to really help anybody. Nothing what Hubbard was telling us with his "Philosophy" is new. He just picked some pieces together and formed something that sometimes is working because other wise men before him found out how life is working. But on the other side there are such suppressive tendencies in his teachings and in the running of the organisation that all this benefits from the adapted philosophies are turned arround into the opposite. Well this is how I see Scientology after 35 Years knowing and observing it. My brother died much too young because of Hubbards suppressive teachings and he had to suffer under this inhuman system all the 28 years as Sea Org member. And he really did not deserve that at all! He was such a nice and handsome person full of life when he left us here in Germany in 1979. So if you know anything about him please let me know. Thank you.

Love

Markus "

Well in my opinion it says a lot about Martys character not to answer my communication. Well if he really wants to help - why didn't he answer my message.

I know that Marty is not willing to confront what abused people have to say to him - he still has to hide his own crimes from himself. He is still not willing to see them....
Here is what I have to say to you today Marty:

You never will be able to help anybody "in moving out of the morass" because you are still so very very deeply involved and stuck in this morass.

Start to confront your and Hubbards crimes - then there is a chance you will see the light.

Love

Markus

Here you will find the story of my brother Uwe in the Sea Org: http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=14804

....for an answer from Marty. I tried to contact him on his own blog but didn't get any answer. Are any true Marty and LRH believers arround who have the guts to discuss this fact with me? In my opinion Marty is not willing to reform anything he is totally blind to see the fraud and abuses in Hubbards writings.

Love
Markus

 

[Markus]

Go and find the key for Hubbards ivory tower Marty Rathburn

this is from: http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=16882&highlight=Marty+find

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=387556&postcount=5

ESMB is like a family ESMB helped me to heal severe wounds

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chess
I scanned over my posts since joining this board and wondered if many others have done that.
I'm such a completely different person in so many aspects from my first tentative & nervous posts. The effect of the Cof$ has been a stubborn and often subtly resistive stain to remove.
I looked at my personal story as written and it just seems like a faded bad dream. I reckon this board has done wonders in giving an opportunity to vent some of the ugly truth from one's soul.
I hope others can see the benifets of this meeting place for what it is - a meeting place.
How do you see it?

Yes Chess you are so very right. ESMB is like a good family or a place where you can talk to true and very wise friends. This good friends helped me to heal the wounds I had after having my family involved in this criminal abusive organization for over 30 years with the very cruel climax of the cruel suffering and so unneccesary early death of my brother Uwe in the Sea Org in California.
And I want to point out, that it is and was important to be able to discuss different point of views here. This is why I still welcome followers of Marty Rathburn and Mike Rinder or other true believers here. Sometimes they made me very angry by clinging to Hubbards nonsense but still they helped me to heal and getting closer to the truth. But most of them stopped to discuss when Marty and Mike appeared on the internet and they went away to join their boards. In fact this two guys brought them back to Hubbards crazy line that they should never discuss his "science".

I would have no problem with a reformed "Church of Scientology" but in my opinion there is so much bad and abusive contense in Hubbards writings that this would be a totally different "religion" then.
And the most important thing would be that followers of this "religion" are willing to discuss different point of views with others and this ability or willingness I can't find at all in most of their followers. What Marty wrote in the foreword of Marc Headleys book was great - thank you for this Marty - Here in my opinion is the most important quote:

"Hubbard eschewed the notion that someone in an ivory tower - no matter how intelligent - can receive one report and then arbitrarily dictate what is to be done several thousand miles away."

In my opinion Marty is glorifying Hubbard here because in my opinion Hubbard lied to himself and locked himself up in his very own "ivory tower" and was throwing away the key out of the window by dictating "Keeping Scientology Working" as the most important rule to every single Scientologist all arround the world forever.

"«When somebody enrolls, consider he or she has joined up for the duration of the universe—never permit an "open-minded" approach. If they're going to quit let them quit fast. If they enrolled, they're aboard, and if they're aboard, they're here on the same terms as the rest of us—win or die in the attempt. Never let them be half-minded about being Scientologists. [...] We'd rather have you dead than incapable.» — L. Ron Hubbard, "Keeping Scientology Working Series 1", Feb. 1965."

Many very wise men and women are living and lived on this planet and some of them tried to help others with their wisdom - in my opinion Hubbard was not one of them. He just copied some good parts of other geniuses and added his own crazy often abusive parts to it. If you look very closley into it you can find all the good ideas in other movements or theories. Most of the bad, criminal abusive parts were born in his crazy head. And he created this parts and NOT David Miscavige. David Miscavige is using Hubbards orders and body of thought in order to keep his dictatorship alive - and Hubbard was and is responsible for this. He was not able to see the weak points in his theory - or even worse - he created this abusive control parts in order to make money and more money.

So please come on true believers bring your "science" back to life by cancelling "Keeping Scientology Working" and start to discuss the good and bad in your believe system. Who of you is strong enough to confront the fact that there is much more bad and wrong than good and true to be found in Hubbards "wisdom".
Let me end here with two wonderful quotes of a real wise man:

"Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is not to stop questioning.Curiosity has its own reason for existing."

Albert Einstein

"To raise new questions, new possibilities, to regard old problems from a new angle, requires creative imagination and marks real advance in science."

Albert Einstein

There is no advance in Scientology since Hubbard locked himself and every follower up in his ivory tower with "KSW". Go and find the key Marty.....

Love
Markus

 

[Ogsonofgroo]

Nice post Markus, the light green suxs badly though

 

[zeropointreference]

Nice post Markus, the light green suxs badly though

I agree but a quick workaround is to highlight the text like your going to copy 'n paste and it should be readable.

 

[Markus]

Is it better now?

I agree but a quick workaround is to highlight the text like your going to copy 'n paste and it should be readable.

I have tried to improve it a little - is it better now?:confused2:

Best
Markus

 

[zeropointreference]

I have tried to improve it a little - is it better now?:confused2:

Best
Markus

Immensely. Thanks for doing it.

There was too little contrast before. I'm used to high-lighting text for readability so it wasn't really an issue for me, I was just passing on that technique.

 

[Mrs Pattycake]

Dear Marcus,

I recently watched the doco which featured your search for details surrounding your brother's death - it brought me to tears and re-fueled my anger at the Cof S.


I can only say I am honestly so very, very sorry for your loss. Given your career it is so ironic that Uwe was not allowed home to receive the wonderful professional care that you could of offered him, let alone the love he needed . I can see why that would make it hurt even more.


Uwe's story exemplifies all that is wrong with Scientology. The cruel inhumanity, and the stupidity of it's ridgid "scriptures" - which as you state are not much more than LRH's egotistical rantings.


I agree with you ... All the good I gained from Scientology could of been obtained from other sources at a fraction of the cost and without any human suffering.


I am in disbelief that I was ever part of such a group - it has been a tough two years since my husband and I left. It has taken some time to realise how I had become so far away from the person I wanted to be -so naive, insular, lacking critical thought, almost unthinking, devoid of my own thoughts and goals . It blows me away how LRH managed to make that the EP of the OT levels and also make people think it was something great !:


I know that Marty is helping many Scio's escape the clutches of the Church and that is a good thing. But I no longer have any interest in any of the works of Scientology. In my opinion LRH's work is a study of contradictions, for every good datum ( which as you say, was mostly "borrowed" from someone else ) there are an equal number if not more that are suppressive. One can not blame it ALL on DM.


Marcus, what you are doing is very brave, I am sure it is helping many, I hope that it is helping you to heal too.

ML Vick

for UWE .
:

 

[Markus]

"One can not blame it ALL on DM."

Thank you Mrs Pattycake for this wonderful post full of understanding and compassion.

I just recently found out more details about the divorce of my brother and Laurisse - it was one big fraud! And I ask myself again and again how can anybody be so mean and cruel.

Best
Markus

Dear Marcus,

I recently watched the doco which featured your search for details surrounding your brother's death - it brought me to tears and re-fueled my anger at the Cof S.


I can only say I am honestly so very, very sorry for your loss. Given your career it is so ironic that Uwe was not allowed home to receive the wonderful professional care that you could of offered him, let alone the love he needed . I can see why that would make it hurt even more.


Uwe's story exemplifies all that is wrong with Scientology. The cruel inhumanity, and the stupidity of it's ridgid "scriptures" - which as you state are not much more than LRH's egotistical rantings.


I agree with you ... All the good I gained from Scientology could of been obtained from other sources at a fraction of the cost and without any human suffering.


I am in disbelief that I was ever part of such a group - it has been a tough two years since my husband and I left. It has taken some time to realise how I had become so far away from the person I wanted to be -so naive, insular, lacking critical thought, almost unthinking, devoid of my own thoughts and goals . It blows me away how LRH managed to make that the EP of the OT levels and also make people think it was something great !:


I know that Marty is helping many Scio's escape the clutches of the Church and that is a good thing. But I no longer have any interest in any of the works of Scientology. In my opinion LRH's work is a study of contradictions, for every good datum ( which as you say, was mostly "borrowed" from someone else ) there are an equal number if not more that are suppressive. One can not blame it ALL on DM.


Marcus, what you are doing is very brave, I am sure it is helping many, I hope that it is helping you to heal too.

ML Vick

for UWE .
: