My Critical viewpoint

ExB.S.O.

Patron
So this is my viewpoint.

We all fell victim to the cult scam. But we already knew that. This is how I view it, Problem reaction solution. Hubbard wrote dianetics. He came up with the reactive mind which was the problem. The world reacted to this problem by not wanting to be controlled by their reactive mind. The solution dianetic processing which later evolved into scientology. In order for this took work or any of the subject matter to exist this is what happened. We the public agreed with it and in turn we created our own reactive minds. That was the first thing that we were tricked on. Then we were evaluated and invalidated by saying we had a reactive mind and we weren't clear. So we caved in on ourselves that was when we first had the chains put on us. The grade chart is once again is eval and inval because it says what you are and what your not so the bridge to total freedom is nothing more than a tool to keep you in your reactive mind that you agreed to have. But if you go all the way up the bridge you might be granted the ability to not agree that you have a reactive mind. If you some how managed to make that far it won't matter because you will be so delusioned you won't be able to see the fact you created the whole thing to begin with just by agreeing with it. So in my opinion we are all clear, OT and whatever else that we agreed that we weren't I don't believe that you need to be OT to do the things that you can only do if you are OT. I have had many spiritual experiences in my life and none of them were in scientology. Scientology shut that part of my life off. It wasn't until after I left did it come back on. I really don't want to say what those experiences are I don't think it matters. What does matter if your still in you don't need to be because there is no need to get processing on something that you created in the first place.

That's just my viewpoint take it and run with it if you want if not cool.
:squirrel:
 

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation
So this is my viewpoint.

We all fell victim to the cult scam. But we already knew that. This is how I view it, Problem reaction solution. Hubbard wrote dianetics. He came up with the reactive mind which was the problem. The world reacted to this problem by not wanting to be controlled by their reactive mind. The solution dianetic processing which later evolved into scientology. In order for this took work or any of the subject matter to exist this is what happened. We the public agreed with it and in turn we created our own reactive minds. That was the first thing that we were tricked on. Then we were evaluated and invalidated by saying we had a reactive mind and we weren't clear. So we caved in on ourselves that was when we first had the chains put on us. The grade chart is once again is eval and inval because it says what you are and what your not so the bridge to total freedom is nothing more than a tool to keep you in your reactive mind that you agreed to have. But if you go all the way up the bridge you might be granted the ability to not agree that you have a reactive mind. If you some how managed to make that far it won't matter because you will be so delusioned you won't be able to see the fact you created the whole thing to begin with just by agreeing with it. So in my opinion we are all clear, OT and whatever else that we agreed that we weren't I don't believe that you need to be OT to do the things that you can only do if you are OT. I have had many spiritual experiences in my life and none of them were in scientology. Scientology shut that part of my life off. It wasn't until after I left did it come back on. I really don't want to say what those experiences are I don't think it matters. What does matter if your still in you don't need to be because there is no need to get processing on something that you created in the first place.

That's just my viewpoint take it and run with it if you want if not cool.
:squirrel:


Only very few people of the world even noticed Tubs and his cult, fortunately.


:yes:
 

Arthur Dent

Silver Meritorious Patron
So this is my viewpoint.

We all fell victim to the cult scam. But we already knew that. This is how I view it, Problem reaction solution. Hubbard wrote dianetics. He came up with the reactive mind which was the problem. The world reacted to this problem by not wanting to be controlled by their reactive mind. The solution dianetic processing which later evolved into scientology. In order for this took work or any of the subject matter to exist this is what happened. We the public agreed with it and in turn we created our own reactive minds. That was the first thing that we were tricked on. Then we were evaluated and invalidated by saying we had a reactive mind and we weren't clear. So we caved in on ourselves that was when we first had the chains put on us. The grade chart is once again is eval and inval because it says what you are and what your not so the bridge to total freedom is nothing more than a tool to keep you in your reactive mind that you agreed to have. But if you go all the way up the bridge you might be granted the ability to not agree that you have a reactive mind. If you some how managed to make that far it won't matter because you will be so delusioned you won't be able to see the fact you created the whole thing to begin with just by agreeing with it. So in my opinion we are all clear, OT and whatever else that we agreed that we weren't I don't believe that you need to be OT to do the things that you can only do if you are OT. I have had many spiritual experiences in my life and none of them were in scientology. Scientology shut that part of my life off. It wasn't until after I left did it come back on. I really don't want to say what those experiences are I don't think it matters. What does matter if your still in you don't need to be because there is no need to get processing on something that you created in the first place.

That's just my viewpoint take it and run with it if you want if not cool.
:squirrel:

:goodposting:

Like selling stripes to a Zebra.
 

ExB.S.O.

Patron
Thank you each for replying I was starting to think I stirred the pot to much with this post. All the views and not much response. After listening to the congresses and after studying the basics as part of my post, that was the conclusion I arrived at from Hubbard own words and explanation. I guess I could find the quotes to back it up but I hate evening looking at any of that stuff let alone read or listen to any of it again. So forgive me for my "verbal" datum.
 

Opter

Silver Meritorious Patron
Thank you each for replying I was starting to think I stirred the pot to much with this post. All the views and not much response. After listening to the congresses and after studying the basics as part of my post, that was the conclusion I arrived at from Hubbard own words and explanation. I guess I could find the quotes to back it up but I hate evening looking at any of that stuff let alone read or listen to any of it again. So forgive me for my "verbal" datum.



Verbal data is allowed on ESMB.:D:D

Opter
 

ExB.S.O.

Patron
Quote

"Verbal data is allowed on ESMB."
Thanks for the encouragement Opter. I find it ironic that verbal datum is shunned yet there is thousands of hours of Hubbard lectures of him giving his verbal datum and courses based upon it. :lol:
 

This is NOT OK !!!!

Gold Meritorious Patron
All the views and not much response.

I think you should take advantage of this opportunity - this gift really - that long-term researchers have provided us of the truth about Scientology - available on the internet just a click and a link away.

I would suggest that you start with the REAL "Basics" such as Piece of Blue Sky, Madman or Messiah and Bare-Faced Messiah (my fav). These are all available online.

Get yourself ALL OVER the Operation Clambake site and the Caroline Letkeman site. From those sites, you'll get directed to an infinite amount of analysis.

I spent 33 years believing that no one outside Scientology really knew what Scientology was. Boy, was I WRONG!! The truth is that no one INSIDE understands how it works!

I suggest starting with this: http://carolineletkeman.org/sp/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=915&Itemid=92

Good luck.
 

ExB.S.O.

Patron
Thanks, This Is Not Ok!!!!

I will definitely check into those cites. I've be looking for those books for a while when I had gone into various book stores. But I wasn't seeking it out to hard. Thanks again.
 

smartone

My Own Boss
So this is my viewpoint.

We all fell victim to the cult scam. But we already knew that. This is how I view it, Problem reaction solution. Hubbard wrote dianetics. He came up with the reactive mind which was the problem. The world reacted to this problem by not wanting to be controlled by their reactive mind. The solution dianetic processing which later evolved into scientology. In order for this took work or any of the subject matter to exist this is what happened. We the public agreed with it and in turn we created our own reactive minds. That was the first thing that we were tricked on. Then we were evaluated and invalidated by saying we had a reactive mind and we weren't clear. So we caved in on ourselves that was when we first had the chains put on us. The grade chart is once again is eval and inval because it says what you are and what your not so the bridge to total freedom is nothing more than a tool to keep you in your reactive mind that you agreed to have. But if you go all the way up the bridge you might be granted the ability to not agree that you have a reactive mind. If you some how managed to make that far it won't matter because you will be so delusioned you won't be able to see the fact you created the whole thing to begin with just by agreeing with it. So in my opinion we are all clear, OT and whatever else that we agreed that we weren't I don't believe that you need to be OT to do the things that you can only do if you are OT. I have had many spiritual experiences in my life and none of them were in scientology. Scientology shut that part of my life off. It wasn't until after I left did it come back on. I really don't want to say what those experiences are I don't think it matters. What does matter if your still in you don't need to be because there is no need to get processing on something that you created in the first place.

That's just my viewpoint take it and run with it if you want if not cool.
:squirrel:



I like your viewpoint - rings true to me :thumbsup:
 

Ogsonofgroo

Crusader
"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose." Jim
Elliot.

This old quote always pops into my head when I read about 'the sacrifices we have to make in order to gain enlightenment' ala cults~ and in particular LRon.
ExB.S.O., ain't nothin' wrong with your point of view mate, rock on! :cheers:
 

GreyWolf

Gold Meritorious Patron
The funny ? thing is, the EP of clear origination is that we have created our own reactive mind. Aint that a hoot?
 

ExB.S.O.

Patron
Really I didn't know that was what the EP was for a clear I guess that is validation on my theory from Hubbard himself. :D
 

LongTimeGone

Silver Meritorious Patron
The funny ? thing is, the EP of clear origination is that we have created our own reactive mind. Aint that a hoot?

Absolutely true. You beat me to the punch with that.

My bet is that it is also the EP of OTVIII - Truth revealed.

"Hey, there are no BT's, I just mocked them up."

OTIX through OT XV is just more BS LRH is going to tell you and then the EP of OTXV is:

"Hey, none of this is true, I just mocked it up."

"Thank you LRH, I'm free at last!!" F/N VGI's "Can I go now?"

"NO, you low life SP, you've still got some money left."

D.
 

Veda

Sponsor
Absolutely true. You beat me to the punch with that.

My bet is that it is also the EP of OTVIII - Truth revealed.

"Hey, there are no BT's, I just mocked them up."

OTIX through OT XV is just more BS LRH is going to tell you and then the EP of OTXV is:

"Hey, none of this is true, I just mocked it up."

"Thank you LRH, I'm free at last!!" F/N VGI's "Can I go now?"

"NO, you low life SP, you've still got some money left."

D.


Except I've never encountered a Clear who thinks that the reactive mind and the R6 bank are anything but very very real. It's just that - as a Clear - he no longer has his own reactive mind, having erased it and/or keyed it out (since Hubbard discovered in 1978 - when he became concerned about the reputation of Dianetics, and wanted to increase cash flow "up lines") that "keyed out Clear is Clear."

Around the mid 1950s, around the time of the Clearing Congress, when making mock-ups ("creative processing") was part of Clearing procedure, the person was supposed to have reached the point where he could mock up reactive minds, unmock reactive minds, etc., to the point that he became at cause over the mechanism of having a reactive mind and, thus, was "mocking up his reactive mind."

Post 1965, a Scientologist first had to erase his reactive mind (R6 bank) and, then, the only way he'd still have one is to mock up one. (Well, his BTs would still have reactive minds, but that's another topic.) In 1978/79, when the definition of Clear was downgraded to "Dianetic Clear" (which usually was a glorified Dianetic release, if even that) a person first had to erase those parts of his reactive mind that impinged on him, or key them out, and then he'd become a Dianetic Clear, and subsequently realize that - in order to have a (his own) reactive mind - he'd have to be mocking it up. That's a little different than he was mocking up his reactive mind all along, although that idea also appears in the mish-mosh of Scientology theory.

Similarly, I've never encountered an OT 8 (who still takes Scientology seriously), who does not believe that BTs are anything but very very real. In fact, BTs are what one will become unless on does the LRH Bridge.
 

ExB.S.O.

Patron
Those clears that you met Veda first had to agree that they had a reactive mind in the first place. Hubbard came up with the whole concept it wasn't something that any of us came up with on our own. We first had to buy into all of it to. So if you look at it from an auditing viewpoint that is the basic on the chain that we all bought into the idea of a reactive mind so in fact we created it right then and there. Which intern began the seemingly endless cycle of getting rid of what we just agreed to have. BTs is another example of something that has to be agreed upon to exist. Because we are "immortal beings" that don't even exist in this realty. We are plugged in and running these bodies, none of it real its all deception and perception.
 
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