Rmack
Van Allen Belt Sunbather
Tory has a real way of making us old timers feel at home.
My Descent into FanatIcism and the Hard Climb Out
- Thread starter Jim Faust
- Start date
Tory has a real way of making us old timers feel at home.
Jim Faust
Patron with Honors
Check out 8:57 for my Dad as a Quarterback for
the University of Missouri (#44) and then onto Chicago Cardinals after: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-ONPJZqUNQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFxL7HgIKaI
I can't find videos of his Chicago Cardinals days as a Quarterback (late 40's/early 50's)
nor
his "Color Man" with Curt Gowdy for NBC.
If anyone can help, please send me a link.
Love to all, Tory/Magoo
great vids, Tory! He clearly was a really special guy.
Jim Faust
Patron with Honors
Yeah some people seemed to just relish the smell of blood in the water, and they just seemed to be better suited to the "fighting pits of Mereen" like environments of the orgs. I just hated the anger and humiliation and brow-beating.I was a Qual Sec for some time and I would have to dish it out as well as take it. I hated dishing it out and would do everything I could to avoid it, which of course made me NOT a good Qual Sec.
Jim Faust
Patron with Honors
How true.Right, but you must realize, these guys where correctly going "If I'd only waited a month more!"
Rmack
Van Allen Belt Sunbather
Whoa! Nice game of thrones reference.
The last episode was awesome, wasn't it? Dragon riders?
I think I know how to defeat the Dead King.
No, but I was on the recovery ship for the guys that built Skylab. One of the most memorable days of my life. The Navy wasn't ALL bad.
Rmack
Van Allen Belt Sunbather
I'm a serious space nerd,and know lots of stuff about Skylab.
Our most illustrious space achievement......wait for it......
Frozen Food in Space!
WildKat
Gold Meritorious Patron
You're onto something there. It is especially the ethics tech that results in this behavior. Jeff Hawkins has a brilliant book about this. I'll try to find a link but I'm on an IPad and it's tricky copying links, maybe someone can do it for me.
Yes. I never held an ethics position, but I was a Cramming Officer and Qual Sec. It shocked me sometimes as I watched myself turn into a raging asshole over some stupid shit because that was the ruthless tone 40 make it go right (but the greatest test never applied, really, did it? Love? in scn? Yeah, right). It was like watching it happen from the outside in slow motion, but I couldn't stop even though I knew it was wrong.
Jim Faust
Patron with Honors
Oh, I don't know, they almost lost me with Shireen. That was seriously fucked up! And Dany sure better get her other babies and go back and rescue all of her homies in the pits, cause they look seriously outnumbered and surrounded. If she just flies off and leaves them, she's not the queen I thought she was. I'm saying, tomorrow's episode better show some slivers of light, because that world is getting as depressing as Flag in 97 after 4.5 years on 7!
how can the dead King be defeated? They sure obliterated the Free Folk's encampment two episodes ago. Except for one well-placed slash with valerian steel, that was a complete rout by the white walkers. Shit, please let us have some glimmers of hope Sunday. The good guys are getting the shit knocked of them on every quarter.
Jim Faust
Patron with Honors
That had to have been awesome! Humans pulling off feats like that gives me hope that we're smarter than we sometimes seem!
Jim Faust
Patron with Honors
I so get what you mean. My shame at some of my angry behavior was profound, but did not seem to enable me to rein it in.
I don't have HBO so I see the last season each year as they do the free marathon. Don't mind spoilers, though. Art is in the process, not the plot. As far as I can tell, though, the only real good guys are the Stark kids, particularly Arya and Bron. Jon Snow could develop into a true badass. Gotta root for Dany cuz she's so smokin' hot.
Long form uncensored TV is great. You have to let these magnum opuses (opa? opii? whatever) develop. The Sopranos had slow moments and even a slow season, but viewed as a coherent work, it fits. The Wire just never let up. You never got a breath with that show. And on it goes to GOT which kicks ass IMHO. Regardless of plot points or who wins the Iron Throne.
We pulled out of San Diego the afternoon before the pickup. The next day anyone who didn't have the duty could go up on deck and watch the show. I was free, so I put on my dress whites and went topside. We had sailed under the marine layer (a giant fog bank that is always off the coast of California) and everything was gray sky, gray sea, gray ship, black flightdeck and white sailors. There was one hole in the sky that the sun shone through and I was watching it because it was pretty and we were headed straight for it. Then I saw an orange bubble with a black pendulum suspended, then the two other orange bubbles which of course were the 'chutes. I yelled out "There it is!" and everyone turned to look. It was so cool.
afaceinthecrowd
Gold Meritorious Patron
Check out 8:57 for my Dad as a Quarterback for
the University of Missouri (#44) and then onto Chicago Cardinals after: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-ONPJZqUNQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFxL7HgIKaI
I can't find videos of his Chicago Cardinals days as a Quarterback (late 40's/early 50's)
nor
his "Color Man" with Curt Gowdy for NBC.
If anyone can help, please send me a link.
Love to all, Tory/Magoo
Luv it, Tory!
Tory,
Can't help you on vids but I spent many a Sunday in the '60's listening to your Daddy and Curt call games. For a football player (I played Pop Warner, High School and College Football) your Daddy was "the real deal" when analyzing a play and "breaking down" the game. I heard live and remember well your Daddy and Curt call Super Bowl I in '67.
Your Daddy was 2 time All American, Quarterbacked the Cardinals to an NFL Championship, is enshrined in the College Football Hall of Fame, and played in the era when American Football was truly "The Gridiron"...both ways, every play, no domed stadiums, no artificial turf, no face mask.
Here's some more about "Pitchin' Paul" Christman,
"A St. Louis native, Paul Christman led the Missouri Tigers to a 20–8 record during his three seasons as their starting quarterback. He was a two-time All-American, and led the nation in touchdown passes in 1940. He was Missouri's all-time leading passer until 1976, when he was surpassed by Steve Pisarkiewicz. While at the University of Missouri, he was a member of the Kappa Sigma fraternity. His jersey number, 44, is one of seven retired by the school. In 1956, he was inducted into the College Football Hall of Fame."
Face
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Jim Faust
Patron with Honors
Part 10
"Evaluate the intentions and statistics of that group, and its creator, casting aside all bias and rumor"
I also decided to look at the Church of Scientology itself in an unbiased way, its main people, its activities, what good it was doing, what harm it was doing, not through rose-colored glasses, with a prohibition against all critical thoughts, but just at the actual results, statistics, and actions without bias. For the first time ever, I decided to do what anyone trying to honestly evaluate a subject comprehensively would have to do: look at data, pro and con, and use my own judgment and common sense if there were contradictory claims of truth or veracity, looking at actual evidence and corroboration, until It was possible to conclude what was most likely the true state of affairs. For the first time I was going to get more than just the Scientology side of the story. I was going to see what was on the Internet that I'd been told for years to not read or look at. Instead of taking Scn's word for it that everything there was a pack of horrible lies told by psychopaths and suppressive persons, I was going to review whatever evidence was there and come to my own conclusions. Of course this was completely forbidden, but I felt it was something I needed to do.
I started reading and continued link to link for 3 weeks 12-16 hours a day. I read accounts of people I personally had known to be very dedicated and well-intentioned Sea Org members, but who now were "out" and spilling the beans. I also focused on the accounts of many, many people who had either known well or worked very closely with Hubbard from the 30s through each decade up to his death, many of whose names I knew from them being mentioned in glowing terms by or given trusted senior positions by LRH himself . I read books such as Jon Atack's "A Piece of Blue Sky", affidavits from court cases, excerpts from other books and investigations into Scientology. And I compared the things that were revealed there to the explanations and stories of the same events as they had been described by LRH, by Church PR staff, and Church defenders.
A lot of my inquiry focused on Hubbard himself. With one or two exceptions, I found the stories of ex-Scientologists, ex-wives, one time close friends of Hubbard, even LRH's own previously undisclosed letters, writings, and diaries were credible and described a person of completely different behavior and motivations than the ones that had been presented to me and all other Scientologists. We had been taught to look at him as man's greatest friend and benefactor, as one of the greatest geniuses of all time. What really struck me is how many people over more than 50 years of his life who were at one time very close to him, including almost all of his family and top execs working directly under him, whom he turned on, denounced, and attacked. Either he was the worst judge of character ever, or he had a tendency to fall out with almost anyone who became close to him
The essence of LRH's character, modus operandi, motivations, veracity or lack thereof, products, habits, health, and psychological and spiritual functionality or disfunctionality is a large and complex subject that I have actively pondered for nearly 50 years. Since he is the source of almost every part of Scientology, it would appear that all evaluations of the worth and utility of the subject itself must start with him. My analysis during that first three weeks, amplified by exhaustive research in the 18 following years, led me to an assessment so starkly different from the story presented by LRH himself and Church PR operatives that the validity of Scientology itself as a religion or as a business selling anything worthwhile was completely discredited for me.
I have come to a number of conclusions after my analysis of Hubbard's behavior and life, some of which I will quickly summarize. I believe he was mentally and emotionally quite disturbed. From his teenage years, he was a chronic exaggerator and fabricator about his own experiences, exploits, and qualifications. He repeatedly utilized lies to gain advantages, rewards, and results that he couldn't get honestly, which in common and simple terms is called being a con man.
Despite decrying any kind of substance abuse and demonizing anyone who had a drug history, he was observed by many people for decades as late as the 70s drinking copious amounts of hard liquor and taking large quantities of illegally obtained prescription drugs.
He had a violent temper and was at times quite cruel, brutal, and vindictive. He strove to destroy utterly anyone whom he saw as a threat or detractor, and he decided eventually most people who were close to him were out to get him.
Despite presenting a public image as a family man and insisting on Scientologists avoiding any type of sexual impropriety, he was married 3 times, once bigamously, abandoned all his wives, had numerous adulterous affairs, had a reputation for seducing other mens' wives or girlfriends, took part in magical sexual rituals, and fathered 7 children, all of whom he eventually abandoned to a greater or lesser degree.
He was very motivated by money, was heard by numerous individuals to say in the late 40s that the best way to make a lot of it was to start a religion, and from the beginning of Dianetics to the end of his life went from a state of near-poverty to running a group worth somewhere around $200 million.
He cultivated an image of being cause over (senior to and able to control) matter, energy, space, and time and having OT abilities, yet he had bouts of depression, crying fits, smoked 5-6 packs a day of unfiltered cigarettes, had rotten teeth and foul breath, was obese, suffered a number of severe heart attacks, had accidents like the rest of us, died at 75 of a stroke, and was found at his autopsy to have an anti-psychotic drug in his body. In short, he was a disturbed but highly successful charlatan.
I know that I am only presenting conclusions, as opposed to detailing the evidence that convinced me of them. There are a number of exhaustively researched biographies as well as great quantities of official records, first hand accounts, his own writings etc. available online adequate to convince anyone with the time and constitution to review all of it. Many previously dedicated and fanatical Scios besides just myself spent a while reviewing the data there and departed the group forthwith, realizing quite simply that they had been lied to and duped.
Of course, some die-hard members characterize the mountains of damning evidence now available easily for anyone wanting to evaluate Hubbard as being 100% forgeries and lies concocted to smear the greatest man who has ever lived. But the group's near hysterical efforts to keep their own membership from reading or watching anything critics say or present as evidence of the true character, actions, and motivations of LRH speaks volumes to how persuasive is the data unearthed by 65 years of independent investigation and enquiry into his life.
I would suggest that any person contemplating getting involved in Scientology, or any friend or family member of a member, or just any person concerned with human rights, would find it worth some time better educating oneself before coming to a conclusion, as opposed to accepting the validity of the self-serving propaganda put out by Scientology.
By the end of my my first three week foray delving into the online world of Anti and Ex-Scientology, I had already returned all of my confidential OT materials to Flag, stating as I did so that I was going to cease auditing the level for the time being, I had enough information that i no longer had any interest in participating further in Scientology.
"Evaluate the intentions and statistics of that group, and its creator, casting aside all bias and rumor"
I also decided to look at the Church of Scientology itself in an unbiased way, its main people, its activities, what good it was doing, what harm it was doing, not through rose-colored glasses, with a prohibition against all critical thoughts, but just at the actual results, statistics, and actions without bias. For the first time ever, I decided to do what anyone trying to honestly evaluate a subject comprehensively would have to do: look at data, pro and con, and use my own judgment and common sense if there were contradictory claims of truth or veracity, looking at actual evidence and corroboration, until It was possible to conclude what was most likely the true state of affairs. For the first time I was going to get more than just the Scientology side of the story. I was going to see what was on the Internet that I'd been told for years to not read or look at. Instead of taking Scn's word for it that everything there was a pack of horrible lies told by psychopaths and suppressive persons, I was going to review whatever evidence was there and come to my own conclusions. Of course this was completely forbidden, but I felt it was something I needed to do.
I started reading and continued link to link for 3 weeks 12-16 hours a day. I read accounts of people I personally had known to be very dedicated and well-intentioned Sea Org members, but who now were "out" and spilling the beans. I also focused on the accounts of many, many people who had either known well or worked very closely with Hubbard from the 30s through each decade up to his death, many of whose names I knew from them being mentioned in glowing terms by or given trusted senior positions by LRH himself . I read books such as Jon Atack's "A Piece of Blue Sky", affidavits from court cases, excerpts from other books and investigations into Scientology. And I compared the things that were revealed there to the explanations and stories of the same events as they had been described by LRH, by Church PR staff, and Church defenders.
A lot of my inquiry focused on Hubbard himself. With one or two exceptions, I found the stories of ex-Scientologists, ex-wives, one time close friends of Hubbard, even LRH's own previously undisclosed letters, writings, and diaries were credible and described a person of completely different behavior and motivations than the ones that had been presented to me and all other Scientologists. We had been taught to look at him as man's greatest friend and benefactor, as one of the greatest geniuses of all time. What really struck me is how many people over more than 50 years of his life who were at one time very close to him, including almost all of his family and top execs working directly under him, whom he turned on, denounced, and attacked. Either he was the worst judge of character ever, or he had a tendency to fall out with almost anyone who became close to him
The essence of LRH's character, modus operandi, motivations, veracity or lack thereof, products, habits, health, and psychological and spiritual functionality or disfunctionality is a large and complex subject that I have actively pondered for nearly 50 years. Since he is the source of almost every part of Scientology, it would appear that all evaluations of the worth and utility of the subject itself must start with him. My analysis during that first three weeks, amplified by exhaustive research in the 18 following years, led me to an assessment so starkly different from the story presented by LRH himself and Church PR operatives that the validity of Scientology itself as a religion or as a business selling anything worthwhile was completely discredited for me.
I have come to a number of conclusions after my analysis of Hubbard's behavior and life, some of which I will quickly summarize. I believe he was mentally and emotionally quite disturbed. From his teenage years, he was a chronic exaggerator and fabricator about his own experiences, exploits, and qualifications. He repeatedly utilized lies to gain advantages, rewards, and results that he couldn't get honestly, which in common and simple terms is called being a con man.
Despite decrying any kind of substance abuse and demonizing anyone who had a drug history, he was observed by many people for decades as late as the 70s drinking copious amounts of hard liquor and taking large quantities of illegally obtained prescription drugs.
He had a violent temper and was at times quite cruel, brutal, and vindictive. He strove to destroy utterly anyone whom he saw as a threat or detractor, and he decided eventually most people who were close to him were out to get him.
Despite presenting a public image as a family man and insisting on Scientologists avoiding any type of sexual impropriety, he was married 3 times, once bigamously, abandoned all his wives, had numerous adulterous affairs, had a reputation for seducing other mens' wives or girlfriends, took part in magical sexual rituals, and fathered 7 children, all of whom he eventually abandoned to a greater or lesser degree.
He was very motivated by money, was heard by numerous individuals to say in the late 40s that the best way to make a lot of it was to start a religion, and from the beginning of Dianetics to the end of his life went from a state of near-poverty to running a group worth somewhere around $200 million.
He cultivated an image of being cause over (senior to and able to control) matter, energy, space, and time and having OT abilities, yet he had bouts of depression, crying fits, smoked 5-6 packs a day of unfiltered cigarettes, had rotten teeth and foul breath, was obese, suffered a number of severe heart attacks, had accidents like the rest of us, died at 75 of a stroke, and was found at his autopsy to have an anti-psychotic drug in his body. In short, he was a disturbed but highly successful charlatan.
I know that I am only presenting conclusions, as opposed to detailing the evidence that convinced me of them. There are a number of exhaustively researched biographies as well as great quantities of official records, first hand accounts, his own writings etc. available online adequate to convince anyone with the time and constitution to review all of it. Many previously dedicated and fanatical Scios besides just myself spent a while reviewing the data there and departed the group forthwith, realizing quite simply that they had been lied to and duped.
Of course, some die-hard members characterize the mountains of damning evidence now available easily for anyone wanting to evaluate Hubbard as being 100% forgeries and lies concocted to smear the greatest man who has ever lived. But the group's near hysterical efforts to keep their own membership from reading or watching anything critics say or present as evidence of the true character, actions, and motivations of LRH speaks volumes to how persuasive is the data unearthed by 65 years of independent investigation and enquiry into his life.
I would suggest that any person contemplating getting involved in Scientology, or any friend or family member of a member, or just any person concerned with human rights, would find it worth some time better educating oneself before coming to a conclusion, as opposed to accepting the validity of the self-serving propaganda put out by Scientology.
By the end of my my first three week foray delving into the online world of Anti and Ex-Scientology, I had already returned all of my confidential OT materials to Flag, stating as I did so that I was going to cease auditing the level for the time being, I had enough information that i no longer had any interest in participating further in Scientology.
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Jim Faust
Patron with Honors
Did it come through that one opening in the clouds? That has to have been really awe inspiring.
Jim Faust
Patron with Honors
Man you are talking to a true fanboy when it comes to HBO!! GoT for me surpasses the trilogy of the Rings and that's saying something (talking tolkien's books here, but have read all or Martin's 5 books and I feel the series is more gut-wrenching and better, which rarely happens). To me the Wire is the greatest show ever on TV. Loving the old New Orleans, my birthplace, 'Im a big Treme fan. Loved true Detective too. A few cable series like Justified sometimes really keep one engaged, but HBO stuff captures the horror, grandeur, and emotion of life for me like next to nothing else.
Re the people capable of rescuing the the citizens of GoT from their oppressors, I have some theories.....
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Yes. I guess I didn't make that clear. It was so cool that I don't think more than a month or two has ever gone by that it doesn't cross my mind. That was my fleet period between mechanic's school and Nuke School. San Diego is tough to beat when you are 20 and it's spring into fall. I got lotsa Navy stories. No combat. More McHale's Navy kind of shit. Sex and drugs and rock and roll and shit.
