My experience with a relationship with someone in Scn

phenomanon

Canyon
that is not your job, knock it off.

It is my job. I pay many thousands of dollars in taxes. This woman is fraudulently receiving money for fooking Scientology services that my taxes contribute to.. Not OK with me, jim!

If you think it's OK, then fine. Don't care about it. But don't tell me what my job is. You don't know me nor anything about my life.
If you don't like my attitude on the matter,that's fooking tuff. Go fook yersef.


phenomanon
 

Gib

Crusader
I did my own research on OT levels and I came across documents that details the levels and what someone must do to complete them. I simply asked her to confirm if this is what she has read. It was quite weird the way she reacted. She never denied them, but stated that she wasn't allowed see the materials nor discuss what I had found from a nonscientology website. She denies Xenu, but what I've found out is that they are in no way allowed to confirm or talk about it in fear that a person may die or go crazy talking about this information with out going through the proper levels.

Yea I've read and seen so much about Scn and I've even reached out to people. Hell I even went into the CoS and did a course I paid for, just to see. I thought it was interesting but I really felt it was rushed and felt like it was a run around video/course I took. I'm in sales so I can tell when I'm getting closed(closing a deal) on something. After the course I sat down with this lady who began selling me on another course to take(1st closing). I told her I was not interested, she asked why. I said that the course felt rushed and I wanted to reread the materials and go through it on my own. Then she gave me the option of taking a course that further breaks down the course I had just taken(2nd closing). This sounded ridiculous to me, but I politely said "No". Her face was priceless, almost upset that I wouldn't sign up for anything. She tried a 3rd close which at this point I was getting aggravated, I said no thanks, are done here? Got up and left.

Quite frustrating, like throwing out a life raft to save a person and the person just wont grab the raft to save their life.

additionally, when a person starts OT levels they have to sign a confidentiality agreement and a bond for $5k or $10k dollars. They agree to never disclose or talk about the OT materials and if they do, they will have to pay the 5k or 10k plus get declared a suppressive person.

that's why she was weird in her reaction.

Yes sir, scientology is the route to entrapment.
 

In present time

Gold Meritorious Patron
additionally, when a person starts OT levels they have to sign a confidentiality agreement and a bond for $5k or $10k dollars. They agree to never disclose or talk about the OT materials and if they do, they will have to pay the 5k or 10k plus get declared a suppressive person.

that's why she was weird in her reaction.

Yes sir, scientology is the route to entrapment.
true, I had almost forgotten about that. It isn't just that you don't want to risk harming another, there is a money element. Bloody hell.:duh:
 

JBWriter

Happy Sapien
additionally, when a person starts OT levels they have to sign a confidentiality agreement and a bond for $5k or $10k dollars. They agree to never disclose or talk about the OT materials and if they do, they will have to pay the 5k or 10k plus get declared a suppressive person.

that's why she was weird in her reaction.

Yes sir, scientology is the route to entrapment.

Thanks for posting this info, Gib; I'd not previously known of this requirement.

Is a new confidentiality agreement/bond required to be signed prior to the start of each level, beginning with OT3?
To whom is the money to be paid if the agreement is broken -- IAS? Co$? The org? :confused2:

JB
 

Gib

Crusader
Thanks for posting this info, Gib; I'd not previously known of this requirement.

Is a new confidentiality agreement/bond required to be signed prior to the start of each level, beginning with OT3?
To whom is the money to be paid if the agreement is broken -- IAS? Co$? The org? :confused2:

JB

good questions. Unfortunately I don't know since I didn't do the OT levels just know folks who have, so I don't know exact details.
 

Enthetan

Master of Disaster
A ten year old missing his mum, that makes sense, a ten year old not wanting to do adult work, that also makes sense.

Having a ten year old be in the Sea Org qualifies as child abuse. A ten year old should be focused on learning to read, write, do math, and be learning history and science. The record of Sea Org "schools" is that little of that will occur.

I doubt they would send Sea Org kids to a regular non-Scientology school, let alone public school. Too many opportunities for his classmates to expose him to things the Org doesn't want him seeing if they find out he's a Scn.
 

dchoiceisalwaysrs

Gold Meritorious Patron
grrrrrrrrr

Welcome dsmturbo

I sense that you are very caring person. :thumbsup:

I have only read the first 9 posts on this thread but I see unfortunately scientology control subverting likely true love. So sad, as this is so common. Not to even including the splitting apart of her familial bonds. It is like a tug of war for her heart and life. She very likely really wants you but is so wrapped up and so invested in scientology of which the organization always thinks and acts according to hubbard's false promises and narcassistic personality traits, that she must be very torn as are you.

But there is hope as demonstrated by the many individuals here on ESMB who have done either OTVII or OTVIII and have left scientology.

I hope that her love wins out over the cultic mindset and manipulation of decades. It can happen. It has happened. And it appears it is happening more frequently.

Cheers. over and out for now as I go to read more of the thread.
 

dchoiceisalwaysrs

Gold Meritorious Patron
Agreed I do not understand how she qualified for help when she was making this much money. Even some of my friends didn't understand.
But as her mother would say, that's the ability of an OT.

I don't know exactly how the food stamps etc works but let's say she makes 5K a month and her credit card and loan payments etc are 4.5K a month...then she only has $500 left over for food. The [STRIKE]charity 501[/STRIKE] high pressure sales registrars have essentially taken her life's efforts(employment/work) and income and made her a charity case. Yet, she is 'upstat' for this according to the [STRIKE]church[/STRIKE] [STRIKE]charity 501 c whatever[/STRIKE] criminal extortion racket.

Unfortunately this is how the CofS steals from you and me and even the public purse so this fraudlent blackmailing organization can buy $5,000 suits for miscavige and chase/stalk people across the country and across international borders just because they want to live a life free from manipulation and servitude.

This really pisses me off. All OSA members and CofS registrars and ethic officers and Sea Org missionaires need to be added to the treason/terrorist lists for their destruction of the lifes of citizens.

end of rant ...for now.
 
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La La Lou Lou

Crusader
Having a ten year old be in the Sea Org qualifies as child abuse. A ten year old should be focused on learning to read, write, do math, and be learning history and science. The record of Sea Org "schools" is that little of that will occur.

I doubt they would send Sea Org kids to a regular non-Scientology school, let alone public school. Too many opportunities for his classmates to expose him to things the Org doesn't want him seeing if they find out he's a Scn.

I do consider it child abuse, but then I consider the private school system in the UK (called public schools) boarding schools for the rich and cold hearted to be incredibly abusive too. At saint hill the kids used to go to school with real human beings, though I think now they have their own 'school', mostly work with occasional study. No one bellow the age of majority should be allowed inside an org, in my opinion. Actually for me the minimum age to do anything in scientology should be 125, and only with the written consent of both parents.
 

dsmturbo

Patron
additionally, when a person starts OT levels they have to sign a confidentiality agreement and a bond for $5k or $10k dollars. They agree to never disclose or talk about the OT materials and if they do, they will have to pay the 5k or 10k plus get declared a suppressive person.

that's why she was weird in her reaction.

Yes sir, scientology is the route to entrapment.

Yes, I figured that's what it came down to. I asked her once what she thought she spent, money wise in CoS, she said between her and her exhusband well over 200k, so a lot of what I read I can't help but believe it.
 

dsmturbo

Patron
grrrrrrrrr

Welcome dsmturbo

I sense that you are very caring person. :thumbsup:

I have only read the first 9 posts on this thread but I see unfortunately scientology control subverting likely true love. So sad, as this is so common. Not to even including the splitting apart of her familial bonds. It is like a tug of war for her heart and life. She very likely really wants you but is so wrapped up and so invested in scientology of which the organization always thinks and acts according to hubbard's false promises and narcassistic personality traits, that she must be very torn as are you.

But there is hope as demonstrated by the many individuals here on ESMB who have done either OTVII or OTVIII and have left scientology.

I hope that her love wins out over the cultic mindset and manipulation of decades. It can happen. It has happened. And it appears it is happening more frequently.

Cheers. over and out for now as I go to read more of the thread.

You're right I am a caring person, if I wasn't, I probably wouldn't be on this site expressing myself. I just wish there was some magic potion I could throw at her to get her to snap out of it. I'm learning that I have to let her do it on her own though :( Even if that means, me not being in her life in the future. I've been reached out by people and they have expressed their experience dating non Scn or vice versa. I greatly appreciate it and I will keep hope that maybe in the future she will contact me. I told myself I wont date, I'm focusing on a career I've been working on and if it happens it happens, that she comes back...
 

The_Fixer

Class Clown
additionally, when a person starts OT levels they have to sign a confidentiality agreement and a bond for $5k or $10k dollars. They agree to never disclose or talk about the OT materials and if they do, they will have to pay the 5k or 10k plus get declared a suppressive person.

that's why she was weird in her reaction.

Yes sir, scientology is the route to entrapment.

Could you tell me if this NDA is legally enforceable and if she breaches it, has to pay the penalty?

My impression of US laws is that a contract is a contract, and thus always legally enforceable. Assuming my impression is correct of course.
 

Idle Morgue

Gold Meritorious Patron
You're right I am a caring person, if I wasn't, I probably wouldn't be on this site expressing myself. I just wish there was some magic potion I could throw at her to get her to snap out of it. I'm learning that I have to let her do it on her own though :( Even if that means, me not being in her life in the future. I've been reached out by people and they have expressed their experience dating non Scn or vice versa. I greatly appreciate it and I will keep hope that maybe in the future she will contact me. I told myself I wont date, I'm focusing on a career I've been working on and if it happens it happens, that she comes back...

If you leave her alone - she will come to her senses faster. If you force her to look when she is not ready - she will throw herself into it to be right. My loved ones left me alone and I came to my senses faster because of that. Had they made a stink - they would have driven me into it even more.

It is the RUINS that drive one into it hoping they can buy a solution out but it gets worse....and their is no stopping to the ruins!! Scientology creates them and you have to fix them!
 

Takin Time

Patron with Honors
Could you tell me if this NDA is legally enforceable and if she breaches it, has to pay the penalty?
My impression of US laws is that a contract is a contract, and thus always legally enforceable. Assuming my impression is correct of course.
Does it really matter? If you're "in", then you'll pay it (or act like you're trying to pay it). If you're "out" and you think they're a money sucking cult, you won't pay it. I don't know if there's ever been a lawsuit by the CofS against anyone who has "told" about what's in the OT levels.

To answer the question "whether or not the NDA is legally enforceable" can only really be answered by having had a lawsuit and CofS winning it.
 

kate8024

-deleted-
My impression of US laws is that a contract is a contract, and thus always legally enforceable. Assuming my impression is correct of course.

There are actually tons of things that can invalidate a contract, especially when you are talking about amounts of money that go beyond small-claims court. In small claims court you can give them a napkin signed by both parties that said "I promiz to pizay $200 to you after Thursday" and judge might rule based solely on that but in a real contract law case precise wording of the contract is extremely important. I would suggest consulting a lawyer that specializes in contract law if this a concern as there are so many nuances, such as I suspect they did not provide the person in question with a copy of the NDA and in some cases - but not in all cases - the party drafting a contract must provide a copy for it to be enforceable.
 

Gib

Crusader
Could you tell me if this NDA is legally enforceable and if she breaches it, has to pay the penalty?

My impression of US laws is that a contract is a contract, and thus always legally enforceable. Assuming my impression is correct of course.

I don't know.

But I can say this. The OT level data is already freely available on the internet, so there is no secret. But the church wants members to believe that it is a secret.

And the policy from the church is to sue and harass by suing.

So, if push came to shove, I don't think the church could win a lawsuit, since the info is available.

But, why should an individual violate the agreement, when it has already been done since the info is freely available on the internet? You know what I mean. There is no reason to violate the agreement.

It's more like, look, the whole world can know about the OT levels, so there is no secret, it just doesn't matter.
 

Lermanet_com

Gold Meritorious Patron
Could you tell me if this NDA is legally enforceable and if she breaches it, has to pay the penalty?

My impression of US laws is that a contract is a contract, and thus always legally enforceable. Assuming my impression is correct of course.


In RTC vs Lerma, during a deposition, the esteemable Earle C Cooley, Attorney for Plaintiff "RTC" introduced as evidence a dozen NDA, Idemnity Agreements, etc, etc. and would say, Is THIS your signature? I'd say yeah I guess so....

Then later in a hearing, in open court, Mr Cooley tried to introduce them into the record, as if they meant something...Judge Brinkema just shook her head and shined Mr Cooley on, with a wave of her hand...dismissing the lot of them.

-------------

Re contracts and NDA, NO contract or NDA can seek to use judicial means to conceal evidence of FRAUD. This is why the mob uses enforcers... On the basis that a contract achieves that concealment of fraud, the contract is null and void, but of course lawyers who think they know what they are talking about, will argue about this for hours, and most likely at your expense..

See Black's definition of FRAUD here - pay particular attention to the wording chosen.


-------------

"Legal bullshit notice: I am not a lawyer nor member of a bar, I have tried a few cases on my own behalf, chosen as jury foreman on a criminal trial that convicted based upon circumstantial evidence, and been ProSe in Federal Court for a short while..and I fired a dozen lawyers. I think most lawyers and lawyer wanna-bes are scumbags anyway..see this page"
 
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The_Fixer

Class Clown
Thanks for the responses folks. I was just curious.

I would agree with your sentiments there Takin' time, but as I said, I was only curious about the legal aspects of it in the US.

So I take it - to enforce it, it has to become a lawsuit. A potential minefield for anyone really, whether one wins or loses.
 

Gib

Crusader
Thanks for the responses folks. I was just curious.

I would agree with your sentiments there Takin' time, but as I said, I was only curious about the legal aspects of it in the US.

So I take it - to enforce it, it has to become a lawsuit. A potential minefield for anyone really, whether one wins or loses.

Yes, it all boils down to monetary issue,

is it worth it to sue, and what valuable secrets are know by an individual member.

Since more and more secrets are known, why the value of those secrets is less and less.

And what is the secret of the secrets - there are no engrams. LOL

Thus there is no reactive mind.

That is the secret that isn't a secret. LOL
 

dchoiceisalwaysrs

Gold Meritorious Patron
You're right I am a caring person, if I wasn't, I probably wouldn't be on this site expressing myself. I just wish there was some magic potion I could throw at her to get her to snap out of it. I'm learning that I have to let her do it on her own though :( Even if that means, me not being in her life in the future. I've been reached out by people and they have expressed their experience dating non Scn or vice versa. I greatly appreciate it and I will keep hope that maybe in the future she will contact me. I told myself I wont date, I'm focusing on a career I've been working on and if it happens it happens, that she comes back...

That all makes a lot of sense to me. Except...

The magic dust probably lies in the realm of a heightened clash between her deeper thoughts or feelings she developed earlier in life and an opposite or conflicting practice in her scientology world. Something that is so 'just not right' that it is intolerable for her, and she takes her life back into her own hands. I suspect that is a commonality of many of us who have left.
 
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