My experience with a relationship with someone in Scn

[dsmturbo]

Easy to explain: Real income doesn't equal declared income (i.e. income the welfare system knows about). Make of that what you will.

I definitely see your point in this.

 

[dsmturbo]

A Sea Org member (and I've been one) will start the work day around 8 or 9 am, and work until 10 pm (or later) and do so 7 days a week, with an occasional day off every other week. The day off is not guaranteed and depends on whether she's doing her job exceptionally well.

Yes, this makes sense too. Her younger son is in the SO with the father. He would come over every other Saturday. She also mentioned that the day off is not guaranteed and that it depended on how well he did through out the week. There was a weekend he didn't get his day off, so we had to go visit him at the library for a couple of hours.

 

[La La Lou Lou]

My self esteem is great. I'm very hurt and frustrated that I can't be with her and it been about 4 days since I've been in contact with her. I'm sure she is in a state of disconnection. I fear I will never talk to her again.

Good on your self esteem, you're not looking inward to see what you've done wrong, which is good! But it is a horrible situation, though I couldn't have expected anything else, unless she can persuade her kids to get out. I certainly hope she does climb over the wall with the kids bundled up and with you at bottom of the ladder.

 

[Idle Morgue]

a powerful tool I have used on scientologist's is to ask them "is scientology the science of knowing how to know?"

They say "yes".



You ask "Why can't scientologists study for themselves everything said about Scientology - both in and out of Scientology and make up your own mind....what is the church hiding by not allowing their members to look at the internet - and why do they control what you read about scientology?

Why do they attack anyone who criticizes them? How is that spiritual? Seems to me that a church that does so much good out in the world would have others saying nice things about them...and not the opinion leaders that have been bribed by favors done for them by scientologists - just normal people.

If you are OT 7 - nothing you won't find on the internet that could harm YOU!! So - LOOK and be self determined ...what is the church hiding they don't want you to see?

I thought you were "cause" over life.... why are you the effect of such strange control? It is weird and not even the tech that Hubbard tauts!!

Hubbard says LOOK don't think! So Look!!

 

[MrNobody]

I definitely see your point in this.

I'm quite sure you saw that point before I told you. :wink2: So, before I'm held responsible for the destruction of a promising relationship: It's a point you should definitely clarify with her ASAP, and if I were you, I wouldn't be satisfied with wishy-washy answers. From my experience, relationships work best with honesty, and when the relationship doesn't "survive" such honesty from either or both sides, you're probably better off without it.

I know, the feeling of being madly in love is absolutely awesome, but I also know the feeling when some husbands you didn't have a clue about, angry debt collectors, or other unexpected circumstances suddenly and rudely wake you up from your dreams. I wouldn't wish that on anyone, and honesty from both sides protects you both from that.

 

[In present time]

a powerful tool I have used on scientologist's is to ask them "is scientology the science of knowing how to know?"

They say "yes".



You ask "Why can't scientologists study for themselves everything said about Scientology - both in and out of Scientology and make up your own mind....what is the church hiding by not allowing their members to look at the internet - and why do they control what you read about scientology?

Why do they attack anyone who criticizes them? How is that spiritual? Seems to me that a church that does so much good out in the world would have others saying nice things about them...and not the opinion leaders that have been bribed by favors done for them by scientologists - just normal people.

If you are OT 7 - nothing you won't find on the internet that could harm YOU!! So - LOOK and be self determined ...what is the church hiding they don't want you to see?

I thought you were "cause" over life.... why are you the effect of such strange control? It is weird and not even the tech that Hubbard tauts!!

Hubbard says LOOK don't think! So Look!!

yes, and how does she explain that YOU have looked at the OT levels on the internet and you didn't get sick? Hubbard says you will get sick and possibly die if you see his super secret super expensive materials, before you have paid big money for the lower levels.

i think if you really do love this woman, you will have to dig in and rescue her from this evil cult. i don't know how extensively you have read the internet, but you will see what i am saying here is true if you keep reading.

and all the while you are trying to save her she will be trained and conditioned to think you are an unaware degraded being that wants to harm her eternity.

i remember my first non scientologist boyfriend after years of being in the cult, it was like disco ering a real human being for the first time.

scientology turns one in to a scientologist, and to do that they take away a great deal of that persons humanitiy and individuality.

 

[Reasonable]

Hey everyone, maybe I should or maybe I shouldn't share this, but I came to the conclusion I should.


I met a woman 8 months ago, older than me, beautiful in many ways.
She told me many things and some that may have been considered as red flags to leave quickly. This included being a member of CoS. I decided I wanted to stick around and learn more. In my past I've been involved with woman from different religions and tbh, we love who we love, I'll just respect her beliefs.
We continued dating and through out our relationship, I would say our main concern was what family, friends and her church would say about her dating a non Scientologist. She even mentioned her dating me was out of her element because she would mention to her children not to date non Scientologists. Through out our dating period I became interested in Scientology and even attending a course, and seminar that I paid for. I did an online free course and spoke to an Ethics Officer at the Tampa Org. The conversation with the EO at Tampa Org was because I had questioned her about the things I have read online, like about Xenu and the OT levels up to 8. Which btw she was currently going through OT 7. Long story short, she has been working on an amends project, because she had cheated on her husband while trying to complete OT7, she since has divorced but because I questioned her about the OT levels she was put back on some type of amend extensions project, this is why I had to go to an EO because they wanted to interview me and deam me not SP. I've come to find out that her talking about the OT levels is prohibited and she is trained to deny everything I questioned, even if just to confirm, that what I've read is true or not. After my interview with the EO, they gave her two options, one included me but would delay the end of her cycle by 1.5 years or she would leave me and be put back on her OT 7 level faster than 1.5 years. She had been trying to amend herself for a while because she wanted to take on a job with some Scientologists but unless she was in good standings with the CoS, they would not offer her the job. In my eyes I saw she was struggling with Finances and she needed a job ASAP. Staying with me would've prolonged her opportunity getting this job.
This is where I do not agree with what this church has done to her. I believe everyone has the right to make their own choices in life, but a religious faction should never make those decisions hard(er). She was constantly reminded by friends and family I was not a Scientologist and that I would never have an understanding to her level and that we could never relate, all though I respected her space within the church and her belief, I felt they had no respect for me and us.
Again I do not hate CoS, but I do have a problem when they got involved in our relationship and made it harder for us to move on in our relationship together.
I honestly think some of the Scientology tech is useful for everyday life and should be applied as common sense everyday. I do have a problem when they try to deam someone a SP and force ppl to disconnect from them otherwise they'll be kicked out. People in Scientology should wake up and understand that all of this is a choice and not a way of living.


Another complication in all this. Her youngest son, 10 years old, was in the SO with the father. Apparently 2 other boys were being antagonistic towards her son and because both parents of the other kids are in the SO, they decided it would be best to take him out of the SO and have him live with the mother. I thought Scientology, is taught to handle situations like this?!? This adds even more financial stress to her decision making considering me, which I have suspicions to believe may have been done on purpose to pressure her.


Right before we broke up I asked her what would be the worst thing that would happen if she chose me over Scientology. She said and I quote, from a text msg "worse case... I get myself kicked out and loose all my family, friends, job options." Right there I realized I had lost her. It is sad to think that I would lose connection with my family over a religion. There is no way, I would make her choose, but family should support each other no matter the choice. I was raised a Catholic and even though I decided to change to Christianity and my family did not agree to it, they accepted me and still love me no matter what choice I have made.


I heard Tory say this in a video, I believe she was quoting someone else:


I believe in truth
I believe in looking at both sides
and I believe in having the courage to say what I think
I dont think Scientologists are bad, I just think they are misinformed.


I wanted to share this experience and maybe get some feed back from others. Thanks for a lending ear.


Jorge

Great story. Everything you said is 100% true. Also it is one of those stories that to a Scientologist does not look so bad! They don't see all the control they are under. They think this is OK and normal.

I like where you say " I don't think they respect me" THEY DON'T not at all. Unless you are a Scientologist you are less than them.

Your story is great becasue this is what I call the subtle breaking up of families. "Its just a relationship not a family they are breaking up" and more so than breaking you up they are saving her eternity.

When you started with her you were raw meat. She assumed that if you were high toned enough you would realize that Scientology was the best thing for you if you didn't then you were not high toned enough and would disposed of quickly and quietly without sorrow.

You never had a chance

 

[dsmturbo]

yes, and how does she explain that YOU have looked at the OT levels on the internet and you didn't get sick? Hubbard says you will get sick and possibly die if you see his super secret super expensive materials, before you have paid big money for the lower levels.

i think if you really do love this woman, you will have to dig in and rescue her from this evil cult. i don't know how extensively you have read the internet, but you will see what i am saying here is true if you keep reading.

and all the while you are trying to save her she will be trained and conditioned to think you are an unaware degraded being that wants to harm her eternity.

i remember my first non scientologist boyfriend after years of being in the cult, it was like disco ering a real human being for the first time.

scientology turns one in to a scientologist, and to do that they take away a great deal of that persons humanitiy and individuality.

I did my own research on OT levels and I came across documents that details the levels and what someone must do to complete them. I simply asked her to confirm if this is what she has read. It was quite weird the way she reacted. She never denied them, but stated that she wasn't allowed see the materials nor discuss what I had found from a nonscientology website. She denies Xenu, but what I've found out is that they are in no way allowed to confirm or talk about it in fear that a person may die or go crazy talking about this information with out going through the proper levels.

Yea I've read and seen so much about Scn and I've even reached out to people. Hell I even went into the CoS and did a course I paid for, just to see. I thought it was interesting but I really felt it was rushed and felt like it was a run around video/course I took. I'm in sales so I can tell when I'm getting closed(closing a deal) on something. After the course I sat down with this lady who began selling me on another course to take(1st closing). I told her I was not interested, she asked why. I said that the course felt rushed and I wanted to reread the materials and go through it on my own. Then she gave me the option of taking a course that further breaks down the course I had just taken(2nd closing). This sounded ridiculous to me, but I politely said "No". Her face was priceless, almost upset that I wouldn't sign up for anything. She tried a 3rd close which at this point I was getting aggravated, I said no thanks, are done here? Got up and left.

Quite frustrating, like throwing out a life raft to save a person and the person just wont grab the raft to save their life.

 

[Good twin]

Sadly not getting the re-sign is a pretty big deal for a registrar. The way statistics are counted you lose quite a bit if there is no re sign.

I'm sure she did cry.

 

[phenomanon]

You are correct. The birthday was a ruse to engage in a high-pressure discussion with her.



If she is a "volunteer", then they will try to get her to work as many hours as they can.

A Sea Org member (and I've been one) will start the work day around 8 or 9 am, and work until 10 pm (or later) and do so 7 days a week, with an occasional day off every other week. The day off is not guaranteed and depends on whether she's doing her job exceptionally well.



If she hit her ex-husband for child support, forcing him to have to leave the Sea Org in order to pay it, then she would be declared (excommunicated and shunned).



The "contract" is not really a contract, in the sense of being actually enforceable in a real court of law. However, if she does not fulfill it, they will deny her any further access to Scientology. So it doesn't matter if she's 18, 17, or 10, they will demand she works for them, and deny her services until they are happy with her.

She is getting State monies? That means that my taxes ( which are almost overwhelming) are going to help pay for her Auditing.
That's not acceptable.

It is also Fraud if she is making 5 Grand a month and still getting State aid.

She is a criminal in my book.
If I find out her name, I am reporting her dumb ass to the State.

phenomanon

 

[phenomanon]

How in the hell does she qualify for food stamps with an income like that!?

snippity snip

She doesn't qualify for State aid. She is a fooking criminal. Fraud.

Our fooking taxes are paying for her fooking auditing.

How does that make you feel.

I wish I knew her fooking name. I would report the fooking beeyatch!

As for the OP; run away run away. Look what you have gotten yourself into. It's not ever gonna work out between you, so move along.

This woman is in a world of hurt if I discover her identity. ( you could be complicit in her fradulence since you know about it.) Run Away. This chick is a criminal.


phenomanon

 

[Terril park]

After my interview with the EO, they gave her two options, one included me but would delay the end of her cycle by 1.5 years or she would leave me and be put back on her OT 7 level faster than 1.5 years.

CO$ is a nasty cult. I say that even though I'm a scientologist.

The above things you mention are complete bullshit. They have no right to mess with your lives.

You may wish to let her know she can do any Scn action or level outside CO$ in the
Freezone with extremely good auditors, some taught by LRH, and at maybe a tenth of the cost
or less. And without anyone trying to control your life decisions.

 

[Enthetan]

How in the hell does she qualify for food stamps with an income like that!?

snippity snip

She doesn't qualify for State aid. She is a fooking criminal. Fraud.

Our fooking taxes are paying for her fooking auditing.

How does that make you feel.

I wish I knew her fooking name. I would report the fooking beeyatch!

As for the OP; run away run away. Look what you have gotten yourself into. It's not ever gonna work out between you, so move along.

This woman is in a world of hurt if I discover her identity. ( you could be complicit in her fradulence since you know about it.) Run Away. This chick is a criminal.


phenomanon

It depends. If she was getting state money while she was between jobs and not getting income, that's one thing. If she was getting state money while making significant money working "off the books", then that's a whole different story, and that would be a reason for not getting into a relationship with a non-Scientologist. A Scn who found out she was defrauding the state could not report her to the government, he could only report her to Scn, who would shrug if she was generating income for them.

 

[AnonyMary]

Agreed I do not understand how she qualified for help when she was making this much money. Even some of my friends didn't understand.
But as her mother would say, that's the ability of an OT.

In the real world, it's called fraud!

 

[La La Lou Lou]

It depends. If she was getting state money while she was between jobs and not getting income, that's one thing. If she was getting state money while making significant money working "off the books", then that's a whole different story, and that would be a reason for not getting into a relationship with a non-Scientologist. A Scn who found out she was defrauding the state could not report her to the government, he could only report her to Scn, who would shrug if she was generating income for them.

People under enormous levels of pressure commit fraud, blackmail, fear of bankruptcy, fear of not getting the next level paid for, fear of not being able to please the Reg and see the winning smile.

People get loans for house improvements while aiming at their next step on the bridge. It's called lying, and it's standard practice for members of scientology's public, but it is dishonest. Fraud is not deemed wrong by the church if it pays for your bridge. Scientologists are dishonest, especially when it comes to finances. Registrars know lots of ways of getting blood out of a stone, and some of them are not really too kosher.

I don't know or want to know the details of this case, but if I was looking for financial irregularities I know I would find some juicy stuff if I looked into org/public dealings.

 

[Sindy]

My self esteem is great. I'm very hurt and frustrated that I can't be with her and it been about 4 days since I've been in contact with her. I'm sure she is in a state of disconnection. I fear I will never talk to her again.

It depends on if you want to wait. Sooner or later she will most likely leave but it could be a while. Really, the whole thing has to be dismantled. Also, did you think it was okay that her 10 year old was slaving away in the SO and did she consider him coming home a burden or did I misread that?

 

[dsmturbo]

It depends on if you want to wait. Sooner or later she will most likely leave but it could be a while. Really, the whole thing has to be dismantled. Also, did you think it was okay that her 10 year old was slaving away in the SO and did she consider him coming home a burden or did I misread that?

At the time I thought it was alright. I didn't know of what the SO really entailed then. That was a decision between her son, her and her exhusband. She kept telling me it was hard to see him go but that it was best for him because he would be attending school there too.

I think you misread that. No, him coming over was not a burden, she welcomed him. I do know that the child was going through some ups and downs. He was really missing home and would cry everytime he would go back to the SO on Saturdays. But that could've been A) He didnt like it in the SO, or B) He really missed his mom or C) all of the above. She would tell me he cried because he missed her, but who knows.

 

[La La Lou Lou]

At the time I thought it was alright. I didn't know of what the SO really entailed then. That was a decision between her son, her and her exhusband. She kept telling me it was hard to see him go but that it was best for him because he would be attending school there too.

I think you misread that. No, him coming over was not a burden, she welcomed him. I do know that the child was going through some ups and downs. He was really missing home and would cry everytime he would go back to the SO on Saturdays. But that could've been A) He didnt like it in the SO, or B) He really missed his mom or C) all of the above. She would tell me he cried because he missed her, but who knows.

A ten year old missing his mum, that makes sense, a ten year old not wanting to do adult work, that also makes sense.

 

[In present time]

How in the hell does she qualify for food stamps with an income like that!?

snippity snip

She doesn't qualify for State aid. She is a fooking criminal. Fraud.

Our fooking taxes are paying for her fooking auditing.

How does that make you feel.

I wish I knew her fooking name. I would report the fooking beeyatch!

As for the OP; run away run away. Look what you have gotten yourself into. It's not ever gonna work out between you, so move along.

This woman is in a world of hurt if I discover her identity. ( you could be complicit in her fradulence since you know about it.) Run Away. This chick is a criminal.


phenomanon

that is not your job, knock it off.

 

[phenomanon]

People under enormous levels of pressure commit fraud, blackmail, fear of bankruptcy, fear of not getting the next level paid for, fear of not being able to please the Reg and see the winning smile.

People get loans for house improvements while aiming at their next step on the bridge. It's called lying, and it's standard practice for members of scientology's public, but it is dishonest. Fraud is not deemed wrong by the church if it pays for your bridge. Scientologists are dishonest, especially when it comes to finances. Registrars know lots of ways of getting blood out of a stone, and some of them are not really too kosher.

I don't know or want to know the details of this case, but if I was looking for financial irregularities I know I would find some juicy stuff if I looked into org/public dealings.

I didn't write the post that you attributed to me. But it's OK. I agree with what you say in reply to it.

phenomanon