My First Post as a New Member

[Dotey OT]

Well I finally joined the message board ! I was "in" since 1990, and slowly came to my senses over the last few years, but really reached the tipping point last year.

I was on staff for seven years and stupidly rejoined when the local org was going ideal. I bought into the hype. Once back on staff, I realized the error in my ways and decided to route out. I had enough of "LRH Admin Tech" bullying, things that you just don't expect to see in normal, sane business operations, don't get me started !!!!

I elected to go to an advanced org to audit the requirements of leaving, and experienced something akin to extortion, kidnapping and abuse. I came back home and licked my wounds for a bit, and decided I would finally indulge in looking on the interwebs. OMG !!!!!!

Needless to say, all the dissonance, all the disagreements, all the horrible behavior, all the abuses, all the excuses, all the baloney I had seen and experienced had been seen and experienced by others. Oops. I fell for the "it's all entheta" routine. Entheta = Truth in this case.

I'm still sorting out my life and experiences. I've got friends still in that I feel sorry for. I've got business connections to folks still in. That still makes it all a bit dicey, but I have one important factor on my side: I no longer am drinking the koolaide !!! And to top it off, I no longer give a shit !!!

I'm not declared to my knowledge, and have been trying not to make waves. I don't plan on darkening the door of an org anytime soon.

At any rate, I've been around a bit, got a lot of folders to prove it, got a few stories to boot. Seen a lot of good people get fooled, and I guess I've eaten my share of crow.

Signed,

Old dotard that's
Happy to wake up!!!

 

[screamer2]

Welcome to ESMB Dotey OT

We like stories here.

If you are comfortable, post a few stories. I'm sure you'll cause some laughs and get a few in return. Be careful, though, OSA monitors this board. Just remember that if you for some reason need to remain anonymous.

Many of us were in the SO, on Staff, FSM's, Publics, hangers-on, etc. But almost all of us are now SP's and many of us have an official goldenrod to prove it.

Welcome.

 

[dchoiceisalwaysrs]

Well I finally joined the message board ! I was "in" since 1990, and slowly came to my senses over the last few years, but really reached the tipping point last year.

I was on staff for seven years and stupidly rejoined when the local org was going ideal. I bought into the hype. Once back on staff, I realized the error in my ways and decided to route out. I had enough of "LRH Admin Tech" bullying, things that you just don't expect to see in normal, sane business operations, don't get me started !!!!

I elected to go to an advanced org to audit the requirements of leaving, and experienced something akin to extortion, kidnapping and abuse. I came back home and licked my wounds for a bit, and decided I would finally indulge in looking on the interwebs. OMG !!!!!!

Needless to say, all the dissonance, all the disagreements, all the horrible behavior, all the abuses, all the excuses, all the baloney I had seen and experienced had been seen and experienced by others. Oops. I fell for the "it's all entheta" routine. Entheta = Truth in this case.

I'm still sorting out my life and experiences. I've got friends still in that I feel sorry for. I've got business connections to folks still in. That still makes it all a bit dicey, but I have one important factor on my side: I no longer am drinking the koolaide !!! And to top it off, I no longer give a shit !!!

I'm not declared to my knowledge, and have been trying not to make waves. I don't plan on darkening the door of an org anytime soon.

At any rate, I've been around a bit, got a lot of folders to prove it, got a few stories to boot. Seen a lot of good people get fooled, and I guess I've eaten my share of crow.

Signed,

Old dotard that's
Happy to wake up!!!

Welcome Dotey OT So happy to have others have similar wins to so many of us here.

I don't know about the rest of the ESMB members but I am starving for details. Things like what is the approximate ratio of regging for things that are not actually bridge, how many staff full or part time, is the OIC with all the stats available for the staff and public actually accessible? How full or empty are the course rooms? Are there many well classed auditors. Does OSA give any briefings and how many people get routed to Ethics and for what?
Have many of your IN-friends from over the years disappeared or are seldom seen? How many of those on lines are working for scientolgists owned businesses? Many new public or staff showing up over the last while?

Have you seen the fairly detailed reports on Mike Rinder's blog about the St. Louis org and the outrageous fiasco that has taken place with that org. Do you think there is any resemblance to the orgs that you have been in?
What are the sources of the financing for any reg items and how strapped are the staff and public?

I was in 37 years and got completely out in 2008. Although there are around 30 books published that are not authored by LRH and I have only read about a dozen of them so sorry if I fired a 'couple' of questions at yah. Lol

Thanks again for posting; I think it is super that you are out.

 

[Enthetan]

I fell for the "it's all entheta" routine. Entheta = Truth in this case.

Note that when they talk about "entheta", they dance around whether it's true.

I decided on my ESMB handle from an incident at my org. I forget exactly what I said, but some SO lady asked me "Why are you saying that ENTHETA?"

And I replied, "Because it's true".

 

[TheOriginalBigBlue]

I elected to go to an advanced org to audit the requirements of leaving, and experienced something akin to extortion, kidnapping and abuse. I came back home and licked my wounds for a bit, and decided I would finally indulge in looking on the interwebs. OMG !!!!!!

I would like to hear more about how they handle routing out now.

For our readers, one of the main policies of COS is to post from the top of the org board down. In other words, there aren't supposed to be gaps. If a section head leaves, the department head takes over, if a department head leaves the division head takes over, etc. But the turnover is so high from the stress and neglect that remaining staff are desperate to keep other staff from leaving. I always thought this was so bizarre. They try so hard to get people on staff, they expend so much energy and resources to recruit staff - then once they join staff they are treated like crap, and when they want to leave they do everything possible to prevent it. The posting from the top down thing isn't always followed because it is completely unrealistic with so much turmoil. Also, if n when someone rises high enough or demonstrates particularly good qualifications they are often ripped off by another higher org and they have to start all over with less experienced people.

So was this actual auditing that they were requiring in preparation for your routing out or the routing form sec-check? Did they add the cost to your freeloader bill?

And a warm welcome to the EP (End Phenomena "inside joke") of Scientology. No longer self-censoring and finding that so many of us had similar experiences. You weren't losing your mind.

 

[tesseract]

Welcome! The people here are generally very helpful...
If you don't want to be identified by the cult goons, take care when telling your stories, and keep some stuff vague or change some unimportant details.

 

[phenomanon]

Well I finally joined the message board ! I was "in" since 1990, and slowly came to my senses over the last few years, but really reached the tipping point last year.

I was on staff for seven years and stupidly rejoined when the local org was going ideal. I bought into the hype. Once back on staff, I realized the error in my ways and decided to route out. I had enough of "LRH Admin Tech" bullying, things that you just don't expect to see in normal, sane business operations, don't get me started !!!!

I elected to go to an advanced org to audit the requirements of leaving, and experienced something akin to extortion, kidnapping and abuse. I came back home and licked my wounds for a bit, and decided I would finally indulge in looking on the interwebs. OMG !!!!!!

Needless to say, all the dissonance, all the disagreements, all the horrible behavior, all the abuses, all the excuses, all the baloney I had seen and experienced had been seen and experienced by others. Oops. I fell for the "it's all entheta" routine. Entheta = Truth in this case.

I'm still sorting out my life and experiences. I've got friends still in that I feel sorry for. I've got business connections to folks still in. That still makes it all a bit dicey, but I have one important factor on my side: I no longer am drinking the koolaide !!! And to top it off, I no longer give a shit !!!

I'm not declared to my knowledge, and have been trying not to make waves. I don't plan on darkening the door of an org anytime soon.

At any rate, I've been around a bit, got a lot of folders to prove it, got a few stories to boot. Seen a lot of good people get fooled, and I guess I've eaten my share of crow.

Signed,

Old dotard that's
Happy to wake up!!!

Hi. Welcome.
Are you doing OK?

 

[I told you I was trouble]

Welcome to ESMB @Dotey OT.

Enjoy taking your life back ... and living it, your way.


​

 

[guanoloco]

Well I finally joined the message board ! I was "in" since 1990, and slowly came to my senses over the last few years, but really reached the tipping point last year.

I was on staff for seven years and stupidly rejoined when the local org was going ideal. I bought into the hype. Once back on staff, I realized the error in my ways and decided to route out. I had enough of "LRH Admin Tech" bullying, things that you just don't expect to see in normal, sane business operations, don't get me started !!!!

I elected to go to an advanced org to audit the requirements of leaving, and experienced something akin to extortion, kidnapping and abuse. I came back home and licked my wounds for a bit, and decided I would finally indulge in looking on the interwebs. OMG !!!!!!

Needless to say, all the dissonance, all the disagreements, all the horrible behavior, all the abuses, all the excuses, all the baloney I had seen and experienced had been seen and experienced by others. Oops. I fell for the "it's all entheta" routine. Entheta = Truth in this case.

I'm still sorting out my life and experiences. I've got friends still in that I feel sorry for. I've got business connections to folks still in. That still makes it all a bit dicey, but I have one important factor on my side: I no longer am drinking the koolaide !!! And to top it off, I no longer give a shit !!!

I'm not declared to my knowledge, and have been trying not to make waves. I don't plan on darkening the door of an org anytime soon.

At any rate, I've been around a bit, got a lot of folders to prove it, got a few stories to boot. Seen a lot of good people get fooled, and I guess I've eaten my share of crow.

Signed,

Old dotard that's
Happy to wake up!!!

Hi, Dotey!! You've come to the right place!

 

[Dotey OT]

Wow, thanks for all the welcomes !!

I will start with the ideal org "strategy", and opening ideal orgs.

I noticed in the midst of the fundraising for the org I was involved in that service and delivery, the actual functioning of an org took a very big hit in regards to priority. It was ok to have a miserable, failing org during the evolution of fundraising. This bothered me as a gung ho scn. But god forbid, you couldn't say that. This org didn't even have a C/S for a long while. But they did have a group of "say anything and do anything " recruiters from the SO.

Then there was the reging. Unbelievable amounts of off policy, financial irregularities.

I will say that when I talk about things, you might note that I speak as a scn'ist when I describe something while I was inside and a part of the "church". Part of my complaint was the willingness for that group to go by the obvious things that were wrong. But as a whole now I see the current church as a HUGE FINANCIAL IRREGULARITY !!!

I had a friend that had vast experience in the construction and development game. It was explained to me that the way that they were going about the whole evolution, start to finish was incredibly stupid and expensive. Partly because it was being run by a group of novices, snotty nosed SO kids with a bit of "training", and a utter disregard to cost that could only be compared to a government. If you really want to screw something up, have it controlled by a government, or the Church of Scientology!!!!! Just notice the horror stories around that exist in last minute disasters. I've heard a few and seen a few, and these cost donors lots of money, and many were avoidable by building selection, handling by smart experienced builders, contractors. But who really cares in the end when you have a bottomless resource, hypnotized donors!!! There is a term in construction called Value Engineering. I'm not an expert, but essentially if you know how to build anything, there are several ways to do it, some are less expensive than others, and the eye can't even really tell what was done. But you have to build with an eye on that at all times. There wasn't an effort by the church to limit costs, that we could see. I know you could watch those painful videos, how the church was so smart and buying in volume from manufacturers, I'm actually not sure I believe that bull shit, because they didn't do it in building their buildings.

Then there was the "Exec Training" in LA. That's a farce.

More later...

 

[Dotey OT]

I have occassional opportunities to write replies, and answer questions to the best I can, and try to stay on subject. I like reading your viewpoints, and based on my experience a lot of us have been through the same stuff, unfortunately.

On the subject if regging, reging? Well, I was pretty surprised about the income performance of our new ideal orgs. For the first few months it was pretty routine to have the GI above 60k for each org, day and foundation. Surprised the hell out of me. But the interesting part of this, and something that I had problems with was the reging of staff. If I had to guess, I'd say that over 50% of the GI involved a staff member, either being directly regged, helping by floating a loan, etc. This put a lot of those guys and gals in a financial bind later, when the GI, and subsequently the unit dropped. Also, the policies on arranged loans, etc., well, just throw them out the window. The young SO reges that really ran the show didn't give a shit. Man, there was regging and collections going long past 2 on Thursday on a continual basis. Lots of promises made not kept. I could say lots about this, and do have storys, but this would give away my position st this time. Suffice it to say, hahaha, this is by far not the most ethical group on the planet, by far.

 

[TheOriginalBigBlue]

I have occassional opportunities to write replies, and answer questions to the best I can, and try to stay on subject. I like reading your viewpoints, and based on my experience a lot of us have been through the same stuff, unfortunately.

On the subject if regging, reging? Well, I was pretty surprised about the income performance of our new ideal orgs. For the first few months it was pretty routine to have the GI above 60k for each org, day and foundation. Surprised the hell out of me. But the interesting part of this, and something that I had problems with was the reging of staff. If I had to guess, I'd say that over 50% of the GI involved a staff member, either being directly regged, helping by floating a loan, etc. This put a lot of those guys and gals in a financial bind later, when the GI, and subsequently the unit dropped. Also, the policies on arranged loans, etc., well, just throw them out the window. The young SO reges that really ran the show didn't give a shit. Man, there was regging and collections going long past 2 on Thursday on a continual basis. Lots of promises made not kept. I could say lots about this, and do have storys, but this would give away my position st this time. Suffice it to say, hahaha, this is by far not the most ethical group on the planet, by far.

It sounds like this is a collapsed field. In other words, the field are staff and visa versa. Are these basically affluent Scientologists who were public who joined staff to launch the Ideal Org and by virtue of being affluent are now basically just regging themselves and each other? If so, I'd surmise many are OT Committee members just subsidizing the org.

Are they continuing to count stats and income into the prior week past Thursday at 2:00?! That's a very big No No. I'm shocked, just shocked!

Is this a non-SO org with SO regges? I'm not familiar with that arrangement unless it's a special project or mission to get the Ideal Org off the ground or they are on tour regging for Flag or an AO.

Yes, Scientology policy is written for the naive. There are always caveats to countermand policy interpretation, such as the catch all policy of "not using policy to stop". Gotta love it!

Nobody expects you to give too many details that would round out an OSA profile.

 

[guanoloco]

I have occassional opportunities to write replies, and answer questions to the best I can, and try to stay on subject. I like reading your viewpoints, and based on my experience a lot of us have been through the same stuff, unfortunately.

On the subject if regging, reging? Well, I was pretty surprised about the income performance of our new ideal orgs. For the first few months it was pretty routine to have the GI above 60k for each org, day and foundation. Surprised the hell out of me. But the interesting part of this, and something that I had problems with was the reging of staff. If I had to guess, I'd say that over 50% of the GI involved a staff member, either being directly regged, helping by floating a loan, etc. This put a lot of those guys and gals in a financial bind later, when the GI, and subsequently the unit dropped. Also, the policies on arranged loans, etc., well, just throw them out the window. The young SO reges that really ran the show didn't give a shit. Man, there was regging and collections going long past 2 on Thursday on a continual basis. Lots of promises made not kept. I could say lots about this, and do have storys, but this would give away my position st this time. Suffice it to say, hahaha, this is by far not the most ethical group on the planet, by far.

Was there any toilet paper?

 

[F.Bullbait]

Was there any toilet paper?

OT win: Never have to use TP again!

or

Now I know I don't need TP. Thanks Ron!

 

[screamer2]

I have occassional opportunities to write replies, and answer questions to the best I can, and try to stay on subject. I like reading your viewpoints, and based on my experience a lot of us have been through the same stuff, unfortunately.

On the subject if regging, reging? Well, I was pretty surprised about the income performance of our new ideal orgs. For the first few months it was pretty routine to have the GI above 60k for each org, day and foundation. Surprised the hell out of me. But the interesting part of this, and something that I had problems with was the reging of staff. If I had to guess, I'd say that over 50% of the GI involved a staff member, either being directly regged, helping by floating a loan, etc. This put a lot of those guys and gals in a financial bind later, when the GI, and subsequently the unit dropped. Also, the policies on arranged loans, etc., well, just throw them out the window. The young SO reges that really ran the show didn't give a shit. Man, there was regging and collections going long past 2 on Thursday on a continual basis. Lots of promises made not kept. I could say lots about this, and do have storys, but this would give away my position st this time. Suffice it to say, hahaha, this is by far not the most ethical group on the planet, by far.

I have seen the same exact kind of insane bullshit (and worse) go on at all $cientology units I've ever been assigned to. Sometimes pay would be a few cents. Sometimes pay would be a hundred clams. But when it was a hundred clams you were expected to "flow power to power." And they don't call 'em 'clams' for nothin'.

 

[Dotey OT]

No, these were not all OT committee members. They recruit for ideal orgs now from all four corners of the earth. Promising everything, daycare, housing, training, wiped off org debt (freeloaders), and many others. They will give you an example of staff pay, which isn't really true, of course. Staff with bad credit were being helped by staff with goid credit. Personal loans were being arranged. I'm certain that there are guys holding the bag, as staff that got the loans can't pay. I've heard specifically that many orgs have hired quite a few NOI folks. They get CSW's to handle Ramadan, etc. My only point on that is these guys aren't really Scn'ists, just recruited under pressure and say yes, then suffer the consequences. We had failed staff from other orgs with unhandled ethics, then they came to our org and just caused more problems.

And yes, this org opened with a mission of SO folks, a large number. It was essentially opened with a full on bypass in most areas. Div 2, Div 7, Div 6, HGC operations were all essentially being run, or poorly run by SO. This is less so now but still happening. From what I saw, the most widely used tech was bait and badger, and poor 8-C on staff. Nothing really long term was being done or created, it was get the GI up. A very one sided view of business operation. Doesn't work in the long run.

Maybe even larger of a departure is the musical chair scene. Non-standard demotions, transfers, willy-nilly style sort of a fill this post du-jour. Like the Tech Sec post being held by four different people in a year. That's just one.

Now for the courserooms. Any old tech folks will appreciate how screwed up it is to have Div 6 students in the academy. It took only several months for Div 6 courseroom students to be in the academy. Transfers, people leaving staff, etc. brought that on. No one in management sees that as bad enough to correct. Not that I now really care, but they aren't even really trying to play by they're own rules.

I could keep going...

 

[Lulu Belle]

Also, if n when someone rises high enough or demonstrates particularly good qualifications they are often ripped off by another higher org and they have to start all over with less experienced people.

In the service orgs the situation of qualified staff being ripped off by the CMO and other upper orgs was so bad the recruiters went out of their way to not even try to recruit HCO qual'd people.

They understood (rightly) they'd be doing a whole lot of work for nothing.

 

[dchoiceisalwaysrs]

I have occassional opportunities to write replies, and answer questions to the best I can, and try to stay on subject. I like reading your viewpoints, and based on my experience a lot of us have been through the same stuff, unfortunately.

On the subject if regging, reging? Well, I was pretty surprised about the income performance of our new ideal orgs. For the first few months it was pretty routine to have the GI above 60k for each org, day and foundation. Surprised the hell out of me. But the interesting part of this, and something that I had problems with was the reging of staff. If I had to guess, I'd say that over 50% of the GI involved a staff member, either being directly regged, helping by floating a loan, etc. This put a lot of those guys and gals in a financial bind later, when the GI, and subsequently the unit dropped. Also, the policies on arranged loans, etc., well, just throw them out the window. The young SO reges that really ran the show didn't give a shit. Man, there was regging and collections going long past 2 on Thursday on a continual basis. Lots of promises made not kept. I could say lots about this, and do have storys, but this would give away my position st this time. Suffice it to say, hahaha, this is by far not the most ethical group on the planet, by far.

Thanks for your responses Dotey OT.

It appears that the scientology and dianetic organizations are continuing the precedent set by the hubbard modus operandi as far back as hubbard's circa 1930 Motion Picture expedition into the Caribbean and his subsequent search for gold in Puerto Rico as he was returning to the USA. The resulting autosarcophagy goes hand in hand with hubbard's sociopathic 'postulates' and malignant and manic megalomania which are evident in his activities of fraud with 'Jack' Parsons in the mid 1940's; his further recidivism regarding the writing of Dianetics with its 'Clear' claim of 273 cleared individuals, and the founding and authoritarian building and failing of the early Hubbard Dianetics research foundation.
There are additional points along the Hubbard Hole trick/track and this modus operandi is still very visible in David Miscavige and cohorts' scam reconstruction and operation.

Malignant DNA if you will, with the disease morphing but still for the greater portion a facade propped by cannibalizing its starving self (largely because the world is at large recognizes through educational awareness of the dangers of the dangerous destructive character and is staying away and even combating it.)

TOBB mentions it as a collapsed field. I would add that it is also being eaten alive from within. This is overall a very good thing and I am so glad there is an AfterMathfoundation to help the members who wish to flee before the HOLE thing collapses in on itself.

 

[phenomanon]

Was there any toilet paper?

 

[programmer_guy]

@Dotey OT,

During your time on staff how many other staff did you know that were over 35 years old?