My girlfriend left me for scientology

[Wilbur]

If she is telling you she wants to be heterosexual now, it is because the Scientology organisation ("Org") has been carefully working on her. They have explained to her, over time, carefully repeated and phrased in different ways, and backed up by L. Ron Hubbard references, that being gay is an "aberration". They have various explanations for why it occurs, ranging from confusion over body gender caused by reincarnating into a body that is a different gender from previous ones, through to traumatic past experiences ("engrams"), through to the idea that homosexuality was implanted into a person at a spiritual level by evil psychiatrists from previous lives on other planets. At some point they will have explained to her that homosexuals are stuck at a level on their emotional "tone scale" known as "covert hostility", and that as she rises up the tone scale on her way to "enthusiasm" and above, through auditing, she will lose the homosexual feelings. Then they will have explained to her that being connected to homosexuals is dangerous for her spiritual progress, because covert hostility is an emotional tone level in which people will covertly try to mess up her life.

So, you are a danger to her spiritual progress. And they will know from experience that if they allow her to continue associating with her, then you will try to persuade her to leave Scientology. If someone is connected to her that is against Scientology, she cannot do further auditing until she has either "handled or disconnected from" the antagonistic person. The policy involved suggests that she tries to handle you, and if that doesn't work, then disconnect from you. But if she is paying in money, and you have already been telling her that you have concerns, then they will have encouraged her to disconnect from you. ESPECIALLY given that you were having a sexual relationship with her. Because they know that that means you can influence her decisions.

So what has almost certainly happened is that they have worked on her over time, and at some point have said to her "this person is getting in the way of your progress to Clear and beyond. You must disconnect from her". This will have been cemented in by making her study the policy letters that talk about people antagonistic to Scientology, and also by making her study the materials that talk about homosexuality and the tone level of covert hostility (which they label on their numerical scale as level 1.1 - close to level 0, which is "body death").

Initially, they probably didn't directly mention you. They probably started by asking her "who are you connected to that is antagonistic to your spiritual progress in Scientology?" She will have listed out possible people, and you would have been prominent on the list. This would have put the idea in her head to be suspicious of you. Then they would carefully work on that over time, applying more and more pressure each time.

In her mind now, you are an obstacle to her progress up the Bridge to Total Freedom. And she will intuitively understand that there is NO WAY she can have a gay relationship and continue up that Bridge. To continue with a gay relationship would mean she would be continually going to see the "Ethics Officer", who will ask her to deal with her "out-ethics" relationship (meaning, an immoral, sinful relationship that is stopping her from progressing spiritually). She could get away with having a gay relationship for a little while if she is paying in money for auditing, but by the time she reached Grade 4, the pressure would be being applied strongly.

She has HAD to choose between you and Scientology. It's possible that, in her own mind, she is doing mental gymnastics. In the front of her mind she is thinking "I need to get up the Bridge, and my girlfriend is getting in the way of that, so I need to split up". It is possible that in the back of her mind she is thinking "once I am up the Bridge, well, we'll see". So she may well contact you again in the future, if she loves you. But maybe not. And if she does, you will never be able to be her long-term girlfriend while she is still a Scientologist. As she gets beyond Clear, they simply WILL NOT ACCEPT it. Having a sexual relationship with you will be looked on by the Org like having a one-night stand in a back alley. It's something that she will have to make amends for, and promise not to do again. Or she can't progress up the Bridge.

Sorry for the really long post, but I thought you might find it useful to know what has probably happened, in detail.

W.

 

[Mimsey Borogrove]

Top out meaning they won't invite her to the upper OT levels. I have a friend with Psych history - used to work in a mental hospital -as a CO during Nam. He never got psyc drugs, but since he is a whale (big doner - he and wife gave millions - she has done through ot8) they do odds and ends of stuff on him at Flag, but he is barred from the OT levels.
CO = consciencious objector
Mimsey

 

[Enthetan]

What do you mean top out? If you have the money won't it buy you the way up the bridge no matter what? Or can you get stuck?

I know a lady who was deemed an illegal PC. So she kept doing OT eligibility sec checks, year after year, until she finally gave up. Just because you have money to spend , it doesn't mean they won't burn it up on drivel until it's all gone.

 

[Soul of Ginnungagab]

Homosexuals can do OT-levels if they have the money. Michael Pattinson (artist) did the whole bridge up to and including OT 8. He is gay. He believed that being gay would be handled, so he wouldn't be gay, but that didn't change at all. You can read his story here: https://www.exscn.net/content/view/75/101/1/0/index.html

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

Thank you.. She actually took me to a small event. The celebration of auditors or something like that. A lot of praising, cheering , clapping and agreeing things are fantastic. Strangest thing ever! And after the official part the man who took her in back in the day, came up all friendly and said he would like to just talk to me, to get to know me a little now that I had been with m for some time, and she is dear to him. He took me to a room alone - I was in panic inside but played it cool. Turned out he didn't really want to get to know me, but wanted to tell me about scientology. He asked med questions like what are my biggest problems in life and so on. Luckily I had seen a documentary on how they lure people in from the street in Copenhagen to give them a free personality test - so I was slick like an eel and gave him nothing at all. I ended up having him talk about himself instead - and leaving the sales role he changed completely in the way he held himself, voice and all. Creepy stuff!

I just wish I could present her with some evidence that it's all lies. Scientology is not making the world a better place. The money does not pay for improving the world. It pays for pricy buildings and luxury for the highest ranking people in the org - right? I mean it sure doesn't seem like they pay the people that work there a lot. Or help them up the bridge.. You pay for all that yourself, regardless if they employ you or not, right?!

People don't have time for each other, because they are either working to make money, or in sessions alone. Maybe studying in an org making sure they understand everything and know how to feel and react to everything.

M says she feels more free than ever before. But all she thinks about is scientology. It's like she's an addict.

So yes.. I guess I just really have to move on.

Excellent post(s), you have great insight to the cult considering you've never been inside it!

Your post about a Scientologist reminds me of a quote I once saw in a novel. The passage described a central character in stunningly few words:

"He knew the truth and was looking for something better."
William Saroyn (1947: "Fat Man In a Famine")
​

That quote perfectly describes the core essence of a Scientologist's personality while they are in the cult. They talk incessantly about saving the planet with ARC and R-Factors, but they actually quite fear, hate and reject Reality. They are, instead, looking for something better (Clear, OT, Eternity, Total Freedom, et al).

I saw some great advice posted on this thread. From people who know all too well the REAL consequences of being connected to Scientology and/or Scientologists.

I will throw in my own version of the same admonishments:

-- Scientology eventually destroys everything within its toxic gravitational proximity, even itself. ​

​

--If you marry a Scientologist, you are also marrying the sadistic lying sociopaths L. Ron Hubbard and David Miscavige. In every single solitary event and moment of your life that matters, you will be outvoted 3 to 1. Expanding upon their success, the three Scientologists will then create even more magnificent wins for themselves by attacking and utterly destroying you. They will very happily do all this while sporting floating needles and dial-wide grins. ​

So, am I exaggerating?

No, I am afraid not.

To get a better sense of how life would be with a Scientologist, imagine this: You are a beginning sky diver, hoping to learn the skills necessary to not kill yourself. You hire a master skydiving teacher who will take you for your first jump, a tandem jump with them where you are tethered together and only his parachute will be deployed. He has certificates on his walls and jumbo trophies attesting to his monumental record-breaking achievements in the world of skydiving.

Then you both jump out of the plane. Mid-flight downwards, he is grinning wildly as he tells you that he did not pack a parachute for himself or you today. There is nothing inside your parachute bundles.

But, he says not to worry because he will be there for you in the afterlife to make sure you achieve "eternity". Then he hands you a blank Success Story form and requests that you fill it out before hitting the ground.

.

.

 

[Miss Ellie]

You got it. Speak no ill, hear no ill, do no ill of/to sciobots. She can not watch listen or look at anything that is against "the word". If she thinks ill she will be found out and punished.

If she sleeps with or thinks about sleeping with a woman they will "know". Her every waking hour will be filled with "it". This is no life for a normal person.... Write her a good by letter but do not mail it. Do the letter to vent and release your pain. Even if you sent the letter she will never see, feel or care about your pain. You are no longer there only "them". Sorry but that is her new reality.

 

[Onkel]

I don't even care we're not together anymore. I just want to get her out. It's too much to comprehend.. To think it's even worse than I feared. It's beyond mad.

 

[programmer_guy]

Homosexuals can do OT-levels if they have the money. Michael Pattinson (artist) did the whole bridge up to and including OT 8. He is gay. He believed that being gay would be handled, so he wouldn't be gay, but that didn't change at all. You can read his story here: https://www.exscn.net/content/view/75/101/1/0/index.html

Not just OT levels.
When I was staying at The Manor (now it is CC) and doing HPCSC at ASHO I met 3 homosexual Scientologists who were also at The Manor as public PCs. One of these people was one of my roommates at The Manor.

I guess my homosexual roommate felt attraction to me but I am not homosexual. (We were friends anyway.)
What my roommate told me one day is that another homosexual we knew told him "No, he is straight as a board."
Now, as I remember this stuff from the old past, I just chuckle about it.

 

[I told you I was trouble]

I don't even care we're not together anymore. I just want to get her out. It's too much to comprehend.. To think it's even worse than I feared. It's beyond mad.

You won't be able to get her out ... and if you try (no matter how carefully and gently) all it will do is give them exactly what they want (proof that you are the bad guy and that she needs to "disconnect" from you permanently ... and she will do so without hesitation).

That has already happened to many of us.

Don't let her become an obsession ... that isn't healthy and will only hurt you more in the end.

Give yourself some time to grieve and then move on (and the very best way to do that is to let someone else in who truly deserves your love).

 

[Onkel]

If she is telling you she wants to be heterosexual now, it is because the Scientology organisation ("Org") has been carefully working on her. They have explained to her, over time, carefully repeated and phrased in different ways, and backed up by L. Ron Hubbard references, that being gay is an "aberration". They have various explanations for why it occurs, ranging from confusion over body gender caused by reincarnating into a body that is a different gender from previous ones, through to traumatic past experiences ("engrams"), through to the idea that homosexuality was implanted into a person at a spiritual level by evil psychiatrists from previous lives on other planets. At some point they will have explained to her that homosexuals are stuck at a level on their emotional "tone scale" known as "covert hostility", and that as she rises up the tone scale on her way to "enthusiasm" and above, through auditing, she will lose the homosexual feelings. Then they will have explained to her that being connected to homosexuals is dangerous for her spiritual progress, because covert hostility is an emotional tone level in which people will covertly try to mess up her life.

So, you are a danger to her spiritual progress. And they will know from experience that if they allow her to continue associating with her, then you will try to persuade her to leave Scientology. If someone is connected to her that is against Scientology, she cannot do further auditing until she has either "handled or disconnected from" the antagonistic person. The policy involved suggests that she tries to handle you, and if that doesn't work, then disconnect from you. But if she is paying in money, and you have already been telling her that you have concerns, then they will have encouraged her to disconnect from you. ESPECIALLY given that you were having a sexual relationship with her. Because they know that that means you can influence her decisions.

So what has almost certainly happened is that they have worked on her over time, and at some point have said to her "this person is getting in the way of your progress to Clear and beyond. You must disconnect from her". This will have been cemented in by making her study the policy letters that talk about people antagonistic to Scientology, and also by making her study the materials that talk about homosexuality and the tone level of covert hostility (which they label on their numerical scale as level 1.1 - close to level 0, which is "body death").

Initially, they probably didn't directly mention you. They probably started by asking her "who are you connected to that is antagonistic to your spiritual progress in Scientology?" She will have listed out possible people, and you would have been prominent on the list. This would have put the idea in her head to be suspicious of you. Then they would carefully work on that over time, applying more and more pressure each time.

In her mind now, you are an obstacle to her progress up the Bridge to Total Freedom. And she will intuitively understand that there is NO WAY she can have a gay relationship and continue up that Bridge. To continue with a gay relationship would mean she would be continually going to see the "Ethics Officer", who will ask her to deal with her "out-ethics" relationship (meaning, an immoral, sinful relationship that is stopping her from progressing spiritually). She could get away with having a gay relationship for a little while if she is paying in money for auditing, but by the time she reached Grade 4, the pressure would be being applied strongly.

She has HAD to choose between you and Scientology. It's possible that, in her own mind, she is doing mental gymnastics. In the front of her mind she is thinking "I need to get up the Bridge, and my girlfriend is getting in the way of that, so I need to split up". It is possible that in the back of her mind she is thinking "once I am up the Bridge, well, we'll see". So she may well contact you again in the future, if she loves you. But maybe not. And if she does, you will never be able to be her long-term girlfriend while she is still a Scientologist. As she gets beyond Clear, they simply WILL NOT ACCEPT it. Having a sexual relationship with you will be looked on by the Org like having a one-night stand in a back alley. It's something that she will have to make amends for, and promise not to do again. Or she can't progress up the Bridge.

Sorry for the really long post, but I thought you might find it useful to know what has probably happened, in detail.

W.

I asked her about it. Asked if homosexuality was still considered 1,1 on the tone scale, which I had read. And she sent me a picture of the tonescale, pointing out it wasn't. Said she had never heard of it, but that she knew LRH had sometimes changed things. And that it was illegal to be a homosexual back then. She said she has read the books and it doesn't mention it. But perhaps then she is just lying to me. Because it's easier than admitting that yes - it's part of her decision, and yes scn are homophobic. She used to be into gay rights.

When she was is LA this summer, she had an interview done and it turned out that me not being on board was a problem. They told her to be more open to me about what scn is - to give me information so that I would come to see that it's not a dangerous organisation. So she sent me articles on various subjects such as where does the money go and so forth. They were all of the Danish scn website. So I read them, but disregarded them telling her that information from scientology on scientology is hardly a reliable source. I told her that if things were indeed that good then I would eventually come around seeing none of the things I expected to see.. And they agreed that I wouldn't change my mind over night. Told her to give me time.
Now I have not changed my mind. And so I guess they are doing what you say. What I was afraid of all along. Telling her I'm an obstacle. Manipulating her to thinking I am bad for her because I question her actions. Making her think I can't handle her new improved self - thus trying to hold her back.

 

[Onkel]

You won't be able to get her out ... and if you try (no matter how carefully and gently) all it will do is give them exactly what they want (proof that you are the bad guy and that she needs to "disconnect" from you permanently ... and she will do so without hesitation).

That has already happened to many of us.

Don't let her become an obsession ... that isn't healthy and will only hurt you more in the end.

Give yourself some time to grieve and then move on (and the very best way to do that is to let someone else in who truly deserves your love).

I'm so sorry for you and everyone in here, who have lost people they love to this horrible cult!

 

[Onkel]

Excellent post(s), you have great insight to the cult considering you've never been inside it!

Your post about a Scientologist reminds me of a quote I once saw in a novel. The passage described a central character in stunningly few words:



That quote perfectly describes the core essence of a Scientologist's personality while they are in the cult. They talk incessantly about saving the planet with ARC and R-Factors, but they actually quite fear, hate and reject Reality. They are, instead, looking for something better (Clear, OT, Eternity, Total Freedom, et al).

I saw some great advice posted on this thread. From people who know all too well the REAL consequences of being connected to Scientology and/or Scientologists.

I will throw in my own version of the same admonishments:

-- Scientology eventually destroys everything within its toxic gravitational proximity, even itself.

--If you marry a Scientologist, you are also marrying the sadistic lying sociopaths L. Ron Hubbard and David Miscavige. In every single solitary event and moment of your life that matters, you will be outvoted 3 to 1. Expanding upon their success, the three Scientologists will then create even more magnificent wins for themselves by attacking and utterly destroying you. They will very happily do all this while sporting floating needles and dial-wide grins. ​

So, am I exaggerating?

No, I am afraid not.

To get a better sense of how life would be with a Scientologist, imagine this: You are a beginning sky diver, hoping to learn the skills necessary to not kill yourself. You hire a master skydiving teacher who will take you for your first jump, a tandem jump with them where you are tethered together and only his parachute will be deployed. He has certificates on his walls and jumbo trophies attesting to his monumental record-breaking achievements in the world of skydiving.

Then you both jump out of the plane. Mid-flight downwards, he is grinning wildly as he tells you that he did not pack a parachute for himself or you today. There is nothing inside your parachute bundles.

But, he says not to worry because he will be there for you in the afterlife to make sure you achieve "eternity". Then he hands you a blank Success Story form and requests that you fill it out before hitting the ground.

.

.

I have insides because of kind people like you guys in here. Thank you!

 

[The_Fixer]

How do you mean free thinking is discouraged? How do they do that? What - you are only supposed to talk about scientology and nothing else..

I think the above postings would have given you an insight to what I mean by now.

You are basically not allowed to research much (if anything) on the internet. You will be required to disconnect from any person who may not agree with the church.

Mostly, you are not allowed to have your own "take" on the teachings or systems. They are sacrosanct and must not be altered or thought of in any way other that what is taught. Period. to do otherwise will initiate disciplinary actions and/ or expulsion. Members are encourage to report any errors or transgressions to someone in authority and they routinely do. Everyone runs a little nervous of someone reporting on them.

That's just for starters. Scientology is definitely worse than you think.

As for getting her out, well good luck with that. Chances are that she will be under observation and at risk, so the church will be acting to ensure they don't lose their victim, er, member... Any effort you make will probably be countered by the church. They have had many years experience in doing just this.

All you can really do if she isn't willing just now is to let her know that you will be there if she ever needs a friend when she needs one.

 

[Mimsey Borogrove]

Hubbard was a genius at tapping into people's idealism and turning it into zealotism. If they are telling her the tech has changed - it's PR bs - per keeping scientology working and other similar policies, that is verboten, though COB hardly cares what Hubbard wrote. If she looks at the original book Dianetics and science of survival =- it's there. Re: "And she sent me a picture of the tonescale, pointing out it wasn't" she's correct - it's on the Chart of Human Evaluation not the regular tone scale. But what is going on is an attempt to PR you. Lemme 'splain.

There is an ethics book and in it Hubbard discusses "good roads, fair weather" and "tell an acceptable truth" "Handle or disconnect" Unless the person who is coaching her what to say is completely unread of Scientology books, he/she knows damn well Hubbard is down on homosexuality. But there's no way he/she could admit that. So this ploy is given to her to "handle' you with, assuming you don't know fuck all about scientology, and will take the bait, hook line and sinker. But you have an ace up your sleeve - good ole ESMB to 'splain you their dirty tricks.

And that's what it is - a "shore story" - a lie to cover up the truth of what is going on. In truth, they are bamboozling her as much as you. Sadly, she is becoming one of them, but eventually it will dawn on her - It may be years from now when she sees the reality. But for now - anything you say to warn her or question her is "entheta" (bad news) so my advice? Move on. If you simply do so, and let her find out for herself, she may some day come to her senses. I have many friends in scientology that I have dealt with in much the same fashion - I hope one day they call me up and say Hi! 'Sup? But it hasn't happened so far. Big sigh.

Mimsey

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

Hubbard was a genius at tapping into people's idealism and turning it into zealotism. If they are telling her the tech has changed - it's PR bs - per keeping scientology working and other similar policies, that is verboten, though COB hardly cares what Hubbard wrote. If she looks at the original book Dianetics and science of survival =- it's there. Re: "And she sent me a picture of the tonescale, pointing out it wasn't" she's correct - it's on the Chart of Human Evaluation not the regular tone scale. But what is going on is an attempt to PR you. Lemme 'splain.

There is an ethics book and in it Hubbard discusses "good roads, fair weather" and "tell an acceptable truth" "Handle or disconnect" Unless the person who is coaching her what to say is completely unread of Scientology books, he/she knows damn well Hubbard is down on homosexuality. But there's no way he/she could admit that. So this ploy is given to her to "handle' you with, assuming you don't know fuck all about scientology, and will take the bait, hook line and sinker. But you have an ace up your sleeve - good ole ESMB to 'splain you their dirty tricks.

And that's what it is - a "shore story" - a lie to cover up the truth of what is going on. In truth, they are bamboozling her as much as you. Sadly, she is becoming one of them, but eventually it will dawn on her - It may be years from now when she sees the reality. But for now - anything you say to warn her or question her is "entheta" (bad news) so my advice? Move on. If you simply do so, and let her find out for herself, she may some day come to her senses. I have many friends in scientology that I have dealt with in much the same fashion - I hope one day they call me up and say Hi! 'Sup? But it hasn't happened so far. Big sigh.

Mimsey

That's a good inside look at what is happening behind the curtain.

If I had to summarize it:

-- Scientologist constantly lie to wogs.​

​

-- Scientologists constantly lie to each other.​

​

-- Scientologists constantly lie to themselves. ​

They don't feel bad about lying. They regard it as an advanced spiritual ability, to wit "creating" or "postulating" reality.

It is no coincidence that Scientology is dominated at the top by Sci-fiction writers, liars and professional actors who are experts at convincingly finessing others to "suspend disbelief". That's a nice way of saying they lie for a living. So do Scientologists. They do it to others, they do it to themselves. That's how a dreadfully learning-impaired guy like Tom Cruise ends up believing with absolute certainty that he is a messianic moviestar saving mankind.

No person who has not been inside Scientology could actually believe the tsunami of lying that goes on within every scientology org and mission in even one day.

Scientology: The big secret is just this--it's a lie factory. That's what they manufacture. That's what they sell. If you ask them to tell you the truth about their lie factory, they will very generously and happily provide you with some free samples of their product. LOL
.

 

[Onkel]

Hubbard was a genius at tapping into people's idealism and turning it into zealotism. If they are telling her the tech has changed - it's PR bs - per keeping scientology working and other similar policies, that is verboten, though COB hardly cares what Hubbard wrote. If she looks at the original book Dianetics and science of survival =- it's there. Re: "And she sent me a picture of the tonescale, pointing out it wasn't" she's correct - it's on the Chart of Human Evaluation not the regular tone scale. But what is going on is an attempt to PR you. Lemme 'splain.

There is an ethics book and in it Hubbard discusses "good roads, fair weather" and "tell an acceptable truth" "Handle or disconnect" Unless the person who is coaching her what to say is completely unread of Scientology books, he/she knows damn well Hubbard is down on homosexuality. But there's no way he/she could admit that. So this ploy is given to her to "handle' you with, assuming you don't know fuck all about scientology, and will take the bait, hook line and sinker. But you have an ace up your sleeve - good ole ESMB to 'splain you their dirty tricks.

And that's what it is - a "shore story" - a lie to cover up the truth of what is going on. In truth, they are bamboozling her as much as you. Sadly, she is becoming one of them, but eventually it will dawn on her - It may be years from now when she sees the reality. But for now - anything you say to warn her or question her is "entheta" (bad news) so my advice? Move on. If you simply do so, and let her find out for herself, she may some day come to her senses. I have many friends in scientology that I have dealt with in much the same fashion - I hope one day they call me up and say Hi! 'Sup? But it hasn't happened so far. Big sigh.

Mimsey

Yes, I am grateful to all of you for taking time to explain things.

I Googled the chart you mentioned. Homosexuality is not on.. But perversions and the like. However if you look higher on the scale it says high interest in the opposite sex. So if you want to advance you can't be a homosexual.. That's pretty clear.

I did tell her that if she ever finds herself wanting out - I'll be here. But that for now she is on her own, because I can't reach her, and it pains me to see her like this.

 

[Onkel]

That's a good inside look at what is happening behind the curtain.

If I had to summarize it:

-- Scientologist constantly lie to wogs.

-- Scientologists constantly lie to each other.

-- Scientologists constantly lie to themselves. ​

They don't feel bad about lying. They regard it as an advanced spiritual ability, to wit "creating" or "postulating" reality.

It is no coincidence that Scientology is dominated at the top by Sci-fiction writers, liars and professional actors who are experts at convincingly finessing others to "suspend disbelief". That's a nice way of saying they lie for a living. So do Scientologists. They do it to others, they do it to themselves. That's how a dreadfully learning-impaired guy like Tom Cruise ends up believing with absolute certainty that he is a messianic moviestar saving mankind.

No person who has not been inside Scientology could actually believe the tsunami of lying that goes on within every scientology org and mission in even one day.

Scientology: The big secret is just this--it's a lie factory. That's what they manufacture. That's what they sell. If you ask them about their lie factory, they will happily lie to you (using some of their own products, LOL).

.

Sorry - a wog? What is that?

It's "funny" how they tell themselves they are all about truth, freedom and being extraordinary - when in fact they are buying in to lies, imprisoning themselves and turning in to standard scientology robots.

 

[The_Fixer]

Wog = Worthy Oriental Gentleman. Basically, a person who is not a scientologist or everyday other folks.

Scientology further distances their flock by teaching them to speak another language, mainly the jargon. There are a lot of acronyms and abbreviations and words with altered meanings. Much like military speak at times.

It is designed so outsiders do not understand what you are saying and to make you feel like you are superior in your knowledge (and wisdom) which tends to help you disconnect from the outside world.

The first thing long term culties have to learn when they leave is to speak proper English again.

BTW, just to add to my previous post, if the church finds out you were on ESMB they would make sure your friend disconnects absolutely from you.

As far as the church is concerned, we are their sworn enemies.

 

[Wilbur]

I asked her about it. Asked if homosexuality was still considered 1,1 on the tone scale, which I had read. And she sent me a picture of the tonescale, pointing out it wasn't. Said she had never heard of it, but that she knew LRH had sometimes changed things. And that it was illegal to be a homosexual back then. She said she has read the books and it doesn't mention it. But perhaps then she is just lying to me. Because it's easier than admitting that yes - it's part of her decision, and yes scn are homophobic. She used to be into gay rights.

When she was is LA this summer, she had an interview done and it turned out that me not being on board was a problem. They told her to be more open to me about what scn is - to give me information so that I would come to see that it's not a dangerous organisation. So she sent me articles on various subjects such as where does the money go and so forth. They were all of the Danish scn website. So I read them, but disregarded them telling her that information from scientology on scientology is hardly a reliable source. I told her that if things were indeed that good then I would eventually come around seeing none of the things I expected to see.. And they agreed that I wouldn't change my mind over night. Told her to give me time.
Now I have not changed my mind. And so I guess they are doing what you say. What I was afraid of all along. Telling her I'm an obstacle. Manipulating her to thinking I am bad for her because I question her actions. Making her think I can't handle her new improved self - thus trying to hold her back.

It's interesting to hear what her response was to you. Fascinating. I think the homosexuality-is-bad thing was a fairly fundamental part of the Scientology tech when I was in. I seriously doubt that they have redacted Hubbard's utterances on this. Another poster pointed out, correctly, that the Dianetics book, and also the Science of Survival book, are the main books that say something about homosexuality being 1.1 on the tone scale. I think it also says in Science of Survival somewhere that the best societal option for dealing with homosexuals was to 'dispose of them without sorrow', because Hubbard considered homosexuals to be a big danger to society. Perhaps someone can give you the exact quotes and their locations. There are numerous other places where it comes up in one way or another, making it obvious what the church's stance on it is. For example, the 'Jo'Burg Security Check', which is a very important list of confessional questions asked of Scientologists when they do their Grade 2, includes the question "Have you ever practiced Homosexuality?' If it's on a confessional list, then it's a sin. Someone who has up-to-date Hubbard materials might be able to give you other references. I'm surprised someone hasn't put together a comprehensive pack of up-to-date LRH references on this subject.

On page 125-126 of the 'Basics' version of DMSMH (Dianetics: The Modern Science of Mental Health), which is presumably the latest edition, it says:

"The sexual pervert (and by this term Dianetics, to be brief,includes any and all forms of deviation in Dynamic Two such as homosexuality, lesbianism, sexual sadism, etc., and all down the catalog of Ellis and Krafft-Ebbing) is actually quite ill physically."

It would be interesting to see how your ex responds to being shown the references - will she then just change her story (meaning she is trying to 'handle' you), or will the Org change its story to her (suggesting it is she who is being 'handled', and she genuinely believes the shore story (fake story to present a convenient mis-impression)). But I'm not trying to push you into pursuing this line with your ex. I'm just wondering out loud.

W.

 

[ThetanExterior]

Nora Crest, lesbian and ex Sea Org member gives the facts on Scientology Homophobia: