My girlfriend left me for scientology

Enthetan

Master of Disaster
M has a daughter - she got pregnant in the very beginning of her relationship with her ex husband. This summer the daughter spent two months in a hotel room at the celebrity center. They hardly ever left the hotel, because M was in sessions every day from morning to evening. They had lunch for an hour and maybe sometimes, they would go for a walk after dinner. I thought it was so irresponsible - close to neglect. And I feel bad I didn't get into it more than I did. But it was clear I had no say. Clear nothing could come in the way.

The more distance I get to all this, the more I see just how far out everything was. It's a little scary that she just got me to go along with these ideas of what was alright.
Regarding neglect of children, there are stories here which would make you cry in horror. The attitude of Scientology is that there is NOTHING more important than Scientology.
 

Onkel

Patron
Regarding neglect of children, there are stories here which would make you cry in horror. The attitude of Scientology is that there is NOTHING more important than Scientology.

Yes, I've read some of them. Truly, truly heartbreaking!

I feel like I've lost the love of my life - but I also feel like I shouldn't be whining. Some have it far, far worse than I. Everything is relative I guess.

I hope and pray that it will come to an end soon. That the whole damned thing will implode.
 

Enthetan

Master of Disaster
Did I get this part right?.. If you bring in a new member you'll get money?
Yes. If you bring in a new member, you can get 10-15% of the money they spend on Scientology. It's called a Field Staff Member commission

See the link in this post. There are Scientologists who make a lot of money by drawing new people into Scientology and helping to keep them in and generating money.

Something like being a pimp.
 

guRl

Patron with Honors
Perhaps she did receive your letter but pretended she hadn't ... people love in many different ways and she may have loved you enough to have made that decision in order to protect you and your feelings.

Just a thought.


:heartflower:
If the letter was sent to her private residence, she should have received it.

If it was sent to her "care-of" an org, or to a Scientology-run hotel, then it's quite possible the letter was opened, read, determined to be "entheta", and filed without her ever seeing it.
I'm so sorry. Sounds like scientology changed her quite a bit. Must be hard to look at someone you used to know and love, and now feel so estranged. I hope you have found - or will find, a person who is free to love you back! Thank you for telling me your story!
Thank you all for your kind words!

As for the letter, here's a quick explanation of how it went down:

1. Sent her another letter previously, to her parents' house address, and they sent it off to her. It was just a regular "haha I'm writing letters, I'm old-fashioned, how are you?" letter, which she indeed confirmed to have received and read.
2. Months later her I sent her THE letter, again to her parents' house. More months went by, I sent her a 'Happy Birthday' blessing via email, and the way she replied told me she had no idea I've sent her a love letter. To this day it's a mystery what ever happened to it.
3. I realized then, 'Oh, but I want her to know!' so I contacted her, telling her I would like to meet her to talk about something. She couldn't find the time no matter what, and I gave up.
4. Fast forward to nowadays, we had a chat (IM), and she told me how mysterious she found my request to talk to her a while back. She asked if I wanted to warn her about Scientology, I explained that it was a completely different issue, and no longer relevant.

Anyway, that's what's happened :oops:
 
I asked her about it. Asked if homosexuality was still considered 1,1 on the tone scale, which I had read. And she sent me a picture of the tonescale, pointing out it wasn't. Said she had never heard of it, but that she knew LRH had sometimes changed things. And that it was illegal to be a homosexual back then. She said she has read the books and it doesn't mention it.
I realize this may be too extreme of an experiment, but I'd like to know what would happen if, say, you, tried to take the very first steps in Scientology while proudly and openly declaring your own sexuality. I wonder if you'd be immediately cast out, or confronted with this as an "issue" right away, or if they'd defer the matter until after you've given some amount of money. I guess it depends on money, but it might prove just how "OK' Scientology really is with homosexuality, contrary to what your friend wants to believe.
 

Enthetan

Master of Disaster
I realize this may be too extreme of an experiment, but I'd like to know what would happen if, say, you, tried to take the very first steps in Scientology while proudly and openly declaring your own sexuality. I wonder if you'd be immediately cast out, or confronted with this as an "issue" right away, or if they'd defer the matter until after you've given some amount of money. I guess it depends on money, but it might prove just how "OK' Scientology really is with homosexuality, contrary to what your friend wants to believe.
A lot would depend on which org you went to, and the particular attitudes of the people currently running it. LA or San Francisco might have a different reaction than some org in the Mid West.
 

Soul of Ginnungagab

Patron with Honors
Yes, when I was growing up in London, 'wogs' (golliwogs) was a derogatory term for mainly Jamaicans and West-Indians (people from the west-indies) although others have said it applied to Pakistanis and Indians as well. Where Hubbard got the 'Worthy Oriental Gentlemen' from is a mystery.

...

Where Hubbard got "Worthy Oriental Gentlemen" is probably unknown.
There seems to be "False etymology" regarding "WOG" around.
Here are some links:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wog
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/wog
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_etymology
https://www.grammarphobia.com/blog/2011/11/wog.html

***
 

Soul of Ginnungagab

Patron with Honors
... snipped ...

I just wish I could present her with some evidence that it's all lies. ... snipped ...

...
Probably not wise neither an intelligent approach. A reaction from her on such a presentation could be that she will be assured that the world really needs to be told the good news so to speak. That would mean she might consider that she needs to work harder on getting Scientology disseminated and known. She will probably not look at all that evidence you present her. She wont trust it.

What is evidence after all? She has made some experiences. No matter how many lies there are it is true that she got those experiences. That is a key point. One could say that she has seen the light. Then showing her evidence that it is all lies is likely to give her the feeling that her say is totally by-passed and irrelevant. That doesn't give a nice feeling.

She needs somehow to get to a point where she is pissed off by the behaviour of the Scientology Organization to a degree where she thinks this is just not OK, it is too much. Most scientologists are probably pissed off to some degree, it is very hard not to be pissed off to some degree even when you are hooked on the subject. But people are usually willing to put up with quite a lot before the line is crossed.

One of the things that pissed me off when I started in Scientology was the heavy push to be on study 12½ hour every single week. I was doing a lot of exciting things in my life and spending that much time every single week on Scientology was a drag, but I put up with it because I bought the idea that it was vital.

Another thing that pissed me off was that I had agreed to make a bank loan in order to get Scientology service; it annoyed me for years, but I was still hooked on the subject.

A third thing that especially pissed me off was that at one point I wanted to take 10 days off from my Scientology studies because I wanted to go to a festival for new music in another country. It was festival where I would be actively participating that means performing new music (I am a musician). That kind of new music or avant garde music that most people thinks is weird but I like to play it. The supervisor wanted me to go through an intense word clearing. It took the whole night, so the poor word clearer had to stay up all night to get me through. I suppose that the supervisor believed that I would stay on course once the misunderstood words were found. I was very close to not making it going to the festival, but I did go and it was a wonderful festival.

Despite those annoying situations I was still hooked on the subject and one day I joined the Sea Org. I had some thoughts similar to what I wrote in the start of this post in that I thought it was very important that someone did the work to get the truth out.

So when I wrote that I think most scientologists are probably pissed off to some degree I wrote from my own experience. When a scientologist finally leave it could very well be because the line is crossed.

But after all I wrote here I will say that I could of course be wrong when I indicated above that showing her evidence is not wise neither an intelligent approach. If you can find a common sense way of doing it, well, then go ahead. But it is not easy to say the least.

***
 
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I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation
"Wog " may be found in the Scn dictionary.

A common or garden humanoid who is not even trying,
to paraphrase.

@Terril.

Oh, OK ... thanks, that's pretty much what I was told it meant years ago ... WithOutGoals ... nothing at all to do with any kind of racial slur.


Would you be able to scan and post that dictionary page here to put an end to the endless discussion about what it means (according to hubbard) please?
 

The_Fixer

Class Clown
I've often thought that scientology is the most self-centered, egoistic "religion" I've ever heard of. Because it seems to teach you to manipulate people in to getting everything you want from them, and it takes up all your time and energy - nothing left for family and the people who should matter the most to you.

M has a daughter - she got pregnant in the very beginning of her relationship with her ex husband. This summer the daughter spent two months in a hotel room at the celebrity center. They hardly ever left the hotel, because M was in sessions every day from morning to evening. They had lunch for an hour and maybe sometimes, they would go for a walk after dinner. I thought it was so irresponsible - close to neglect. And I feel bad I didn't get into it more than I did. But it was clear I had no say. Clear nothing could come in the way.

The more distance I get to all this, the more I see just how far out everything was. It's a little scary that she just got me to go along with these ideas of what was alright.
You got it girl.
Smarter than the average bear, to steal an old quip.
 

Onkel

Patron
I realize this may be too extreme of an experiment, but I'd like to know what would happen if, say, you, tried to take the very first steps in Scientology while proudly and openly declaring your own sexuality. I wonder if you'd be immediately cast out, or confronted with this as an "issue" right away, or if they'd defer the matter until after you've given some amount of money. I guess it depends on money, but it might prove just how "OK' Scientology really is with homosexuality, contrary to what your friend wants to believe.

I think maybe here in Denmark it wouldn't be an issue to begin with. Most people are pretty open-minded. But from what I have experienced now, it seems the higher you go - the more you need to change. Cause it seems that in order to rise on the tonescale - you have to leave your" perversions" behind you. You can't really be gay and describe yourself as some one with a strong interest in the opposite sex. So if you are moving up the bridge - the result will be that you get "cured" of your homosexuality? Or that you sublimate all interest in sex into another form of creativity?.. And so there is really no need to worry about it - if you believe the technology it will be taken care off.

But I don't believe you can change in that way. No matter what! I suppose you can suppress your feelings - seems Scientologists have to do that in a lot of areas. But being gay is not something you cure. And there is no need to. It's perfectly normal - NOT a mental illness.
 

Terril park

Sponsor
@Terril.

Oh, OK ... thanks, that's pretty much what I was told it meant years ago ... WithOutGoals ... nothing at all to do with any kind of racial slur.


Would you be able to scan and post that dictionary page here to put an end to the endless discussion about what it means (according to hubbard) please?
Dunno how to do that. However here is Janet Reitman's
summary

http://dialectblog.com/2013/03/14/l-ron-hubbard-and-wog/

"It was presumably in England that Hubbard began to describe non-followers as “wogs.” In her expose Inside Scientology, Janet Reitman elaborates:"

"Non-Scientologists were called wogs, a term thrown around liberally among church staff: “wog ideas,” “wog justice,” and “wog science.” Hubbard began to use this offensive British slang term in 1953 to denote any person who was not a Scientologist, in his estimation a “run-of-the-mill, garden-variety humanoid.”

https://caliwog.wordpress.com/2011/06/20/scientologists-and-wogs-what-did-lrh-have-to-say/

Contained in this link are other examples of Hubbards Use of
Wog.
 

ThetanExterior

Gold Meritorious Patron
From the Scientology Technical Dictionary:

WOG.
1. worthy oriental gentleman. This means a common ordinary run-of-the-mill garden-variety humanoid. (SH Spec 82, 6611C29)
2. a wog is somebody who isn't even trying. (SH Spec 73, 6608C02)
 

Soul of Ginnungagab

Patron with Honors
I've often thought that scientology is the most self-centered, egoistic "religion" I've ever heard of. Because it seems to teach you to manipulate people in to getting everything you want from them, and it takes up all your time and energy - nothing left for family and the people who should matter the most to you.

... snipped ...
Regarding the words "the most self-centered, egoistic "religion". It is actually very far from that for the members, especially the staff. Most people who join staff do it because of idealistic reasons. They really believe that working in a Scientology organization is the most noble cause you could possibly choose. They might not think it is fun but they certainly think it is their duty, especially Sea Org members.
Quote from the code of a Sea Org member, point 5:

5. I promise to uphold the fact that duty is the Sea Org Member's true
motivation, which is the highest motivation there is.

The full code can be found several places on the Internet, here is one place: http://www.xenu.net/archive/so/19730107-in.html

An ironic point regarding duty is when a Sea Org member realizes that it is his duty to leave that organization in order to keep his integrity alive.

***
 
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Onkel

Patron
Regarding the words "the most self-centered, egoistic "religion". It is actually very far from that for the members, especially the staff. Most people who join staff do it because of idealistic reasons. They really believe that working in a Scientology organization is the most noble cause you could possibly choose. They might not think it is fun but they certainly think it is their duty, especially Sea Org members.
Quote from the code of a Sea Org member, point 5:

5. I promise to uphold the fact that duty is the Sea Org Member's true
motivation, which is the highest motivation there is.

The full code can be found several places on the Internet, here is one place: http://www.xenu.net/archive/so/19730107-in.html

An ironic point regarding duty is when a Sea Org member realizes that it is his duty to leave that organization in order to keep his integrity alive.

***
I am absolutely sure they do. M kept repeating how she wants to help people, so that they will be better - and the world will be a better place. She is sure that's what scientology is doing. Helping people. I've questioned things - such as where does the money really go. And she is convinced everything goes towards salaries, upkeeping buildings, good causes - like narconon or that human rights thing, and opening new places from which they can reach more people and make their lives better too. And she claims no government has ever been able to prove that the organisation serves privat interests - and if they were, then it would have been proven a long time ago. I told her that they proved it - for instance in the Netherlands. But she didn't really seem to care about that. Just said something about how things were in the states. And that she didn't want to have that discussion with someone who couldn't see how reasonable it is, to want to spend money on becoming a better person and helping others.
I've asked her how they can argue they help people be better spouses and parents - when obviously there is no time to be with the people you are supposed to care about. How is spending less time with the ones you love going to improve relationships. But she says it would be irresponsible for her future happiness not to invest the time and money. There is alway an answer. And most of them sound rehearsed. Or you know.. Like it's a line or something.

Just remembered how she compared being in the sea org to joining a monastery - because you devote your life to scientology. And yes - she made it sound very noble.
 
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Enthetan

Master of Disaster
But she says it would be irresponsible for her future happiness not to invest the time and money. There is alway an answer.
When you have a future state which is of infinite value ("total freedom"), then that can be used to justify ANY cost in order to achieve it. Any cost at all. What does one lifetime mean compared to Eternity? What does your children's lives mean compared to Eternity.

The communists proclaimed that they were going to create a perfect socialist paradise which would endure forever, once they had wiped away capitalism. They used that to justify the murders of an estimated 100 million people over the last century. Scientology had the potential to do similarly. Fortunately, it's fizzling before they ever had the chance to fully take over any country's government.
 

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation
From the Scientology Technical Dictionary:

WOG.
1. worthy oriental gentleman. This means a common ordinary run-of-the-mill garden-variety humanoid. (SH Spec 82, 6611C29)
2. a wog is somebody who isn't even trying. (SH Spec 73, 6608C02)


Unbelievable ...

I've never seen definition 1. in the cult dictionary (I did know of it as sarcastic British slang) and as far as I know have never heard it used that way in the cult either. I would never have used the term at all if I'd known (I think most of us stopped using it years ago anyway, it's offensive however you spin it).

They must have removed it in later editions, purely for PR reasons, I do recall being ordered to destroy books (OEC and tek dictionary) and buy new editions.

Edit: This is interesting and could have some validity ...

Snipped from article ... http://dialectblog.com/2013/03/14/l-ron-hubbard-and-wog/
Catherine Magnus says:
October 21, 2013 at 11:53 am
Hubbard used “wog” in the US Navy sense. There’s a navy ritual called “Crossing the Line,” referring to when a ship crosses the equator (although there are other “lines” that also have rituals). The “uninitiated” crew are called “wogs,” short for “pollywogs” (tadpoles), and go through a messy but funny ritual when crossing the equator for the first time, after which they’re graduated from “wog” to “trusty shellback.” Hubbard had plenty of nastiness to gripe about, but in this case it was a remnant from his USN days, not related to the offensive British pejorative “wog.”
I’m certain of this because he was a close acquaintance of a family member, and spoke about it to him back in the ’60s.
 
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The_Fixer

Class Clown
I am absolutely sure they do. M kept repeating how she wants to help people, so that they will be better - and the world will be a better place. She is sure that's what scientology is doing. Helping people. I've questioned things - such as where does the money really go. And she is convinced everything goes towards salaries, upkeeping buildings, good causes - like narconon or that human rights thing, and opening new places from which they can reach more people and make their lives better too. And she claims no government has ever been able to prove that the organisation serves privat interests - and if they were, then it would have been proven a long time ago. I told her that they proved it - for instance in the Netherlands. But she didn't really seem to care about that. Just said something about how things were in the states. And that she didn't want to have that discussion with someone who couldn't see how reasonable it is, to want to spend money on becoming a better person and helping others.
I've asked her how they can argue they help people be better spouses and parents - when obviously there is no time to be with the people you are supposed to care about. How is spending less time with the ones you love going to improve relationships. But she says it would be irresponsible for her future happiness not to invest the time and money. There is alway an answer. And most of them sound rehearsed. Or you know.. Like it's a line or something.

Just remembered how she compared being in the sea org to joining a monastery - because you devote your life to scientology. And yes - she made it sound very noble.
Well it sounds like the cognitive dissonance has already started kicking in.
She isn't going to hear anything against her new found passion.
There's the main sign that things are not going too well for her and she doesn't want to know it.
We can only hope that when she sees what really goes on in there, hopefully she will wake up sooner rather than later. It's something no one can predict with any real accuracy unfortunately.
All you can do at this time is to make sure nothing can get to you now.

In case you didn't know, OSA (scientology's secret police/gestapo/KGB/hoodlums) monitors this board and track down people by what info is given out in the posts. They are quite good at doing this kind of detective work, so if you don't want any one to find you guys out, be aware of what information you put in your posts. I think they have a bit to go on so far, so they may have figured out who your ex is by now and may talk to her to get you out of the way.
If something else suddenly goes haywire between you two, this may be an explanation for it.
 
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