My girlfriend left me for scientology

The_Fixer

Class Clown
Unbelievable ...

I've never seen definition 1. in the cult dictionary (I did know of it as sarcastic British slang) and as far as I know have never heard it used that way in the cult either. I would never have used the term at all if I'd known (I think most of us stopped using it years ago anyway, it's offensive however you spin it).


They must have removed it in later editions, purely for PR reasons, I do recall being ordered to destroy books (OEC and tek dictionary) and buy new editions.

Edit: This is interesting and could have some validity ...

Snipped from article ... http://dialectblog.com/2013/03/14/l-ron-hubbard-and-wog/
Well Trouble, I have never really heard it used the way you first described. As I said before, it was used a bit in our Org in NZ as the worthy oriental gentleman. But I think it was mainly used as a term to look down upon outsiders and to make the culties feel superior. So in that way it was really used as a racial/discriminatory slur.
 
I'm baffled.
No need to be - Scientologists who bring people in get 10% of whatever the new person buys. If they drop for $5000 some auditing, the Scientologist who brought them in gets $500. It's a commission plain and simple. It is based on the idea that word of mouth is the best feeder line for new people into the organization. And that cash is a great motivator to get people to bring their friends and acquaintances in.

Just like insurance salesmen, multi-level marketers, or many others, such as car sales men - they get a commission.

In Scientology these salesmen are named "Field Staff Members" or FSM for short.

The FSM will get a commission for each new service he gets the person to do. So his job & motivation is to keep the person continuing to buy services. Some of the better FSMs in Scientology's hay days could make $100k a year or more. These days, with the lousy PR Scientology enjoys, finding people who are interested in Scientology and haven't heard of its awful behavior are few and far between. When someone like your x shows interest - the FSM salivates.

The easiest person for an FSM to motivate is to get existing Scientologists to buy more stuff - in the insurance industry it is called "churning". It's where the insurance salesman tries to get you to dump your current policy, and to buy a new policy (for which he gets a commission for each new policy bought)

I will bet you dimes to doughnuts she has a FSM who is prodding her onward and would like nothing better if you were to fall off a cliff. Hummm. Speaking of cliffs...here's a recent picture of her FSM :

Mimsey

coyote-1.jpg
 
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I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation
Well Trouble, I have never really heard it used the way you first described. As I said before, it was used a bit in our Org in NZ as the worthy oriental gentleman. But I think it was mainly used as a term to look down upon outsiders and to make the culties feel superior. So in that way it was really used as a racial/discriminatory slur.
Yes, the expression (wog) was definitely used in that way (as a superiority thing) but ... not every outsider was oriental (or a gentleman ... or worthy/worldy/western) so it still doesn't make any sense to me and I don't think it ever will, whereas "without goals" did make sense at the time, sort of.

Lol.

I'm going to forget about it now ... I've totally stopped caring.


:baby:
 

Clay Pigeon

Gold Meritorious Patron
She is somewhat above the bottom of the bridge if she is getting grade 4. They will probably get her to "go clear" on dianetics but she will likely top out at that point, unless she can really demonstrate she's straight and whatever gay experiences she had was as a fluke. I don't know how much I buy the gay girl on the OT levels - sounds like some unsubstantiated BS "Tr-4" handling - translation - TR4 is a communication drill where your coach says some origination, and you, the student auditor, are to hear, understand, and acknowledge it in a way that ends up with the person continuing with the process etc.

So in this light - she says " I heard gays can't do the bridge" and the other person says: 'No way - I heard of a lesbian on the OT levels" Her objection is handled, her fears allayed, and thus continues on with her bridge progress. All per the tech. Who knows - maybe they consider lesbians less gay than guys? I don't hold a lot of hope if it comes out on a sec check that she is still a bit gay, or bi as the above post. Sec check - an interrogation done on the meter to find crimes etc. the person doesn't want known. Typically they thoroughly sec check you prior top going on to the OT levels to weed out any liabilities.

( you could help her along by telling her to think happy thoughts when she doesn't like the questioning to make the needle F/N - maybe when she sees just how bogus the meter is, she will connect the dots...)

I dunno, Anne Hesche went straight, maybe your x did as well.

I'd move on, and if she ever comes back, deal with it then.

Mimsey

lesbians are less gay than guys
Mims. Man gay sex is prohibited as "abomination" in Leviticus but not woman gay sex. The next injunction prohibits man/beast sex and the one thereafter forbids woman/beast sex.

They're women. They get lonely. God understands.
 

Onkel

Patron
No need to be - Scientologists who bring people in get 10% of whatever the new person buys. If they drop for $5000 some auditing, the Scientologist who brought them in gets $500. It's a commission plain and simple. It is based on the idea that word of mouth is the best feeder line for new people into the organization. And that cash is a great motivator to get people to bring their friends and acquaintances in.

Just like insurance salesmen, multi-level marketers, or many others, such as car sales men - they get a commission.

In Scientology these salesmen are named "Field Staff Members" or FSM for short.

The FSM will get a commission for each new service he gets the person to do. So his job & motivation is to keep the person continuing to buy services. Some of the better FSMs in Scientology's hay days could make $100k a year or more. These days, with the lousy PR Scientology enjoys, finding people who are interested in Scientology and haven't heard of its awful behavior are few and far between. When someone like your x shows interest - the FSM salivates.

The easiest person for an FSM to motivate is to get existing Scientologists to buy more stuff - in the insurance industry it is called "churning". It's where the insurance salesman tries to get you to dump your current policy, and to buy a new policy (for which he gets a commission for each new policy bought)

I will bet you dimes to doughnuts she has a FSM who is prodding her onward and would like nothing better if you were to fall off a cliff. Hummm. Speaking of cliffs...here's a recent picture of her FSM :

Mimsey

coyote-1.jpg
So automatically when a scientologist gets friends and family in, they become fsm and get money every time they buy a new service?
 

Enthetan

Master of Disaster
So automatically when a scientologist gets friends and family in, they become fsm and get money every time they buy a new service?
Mostly, yes, as long as the FSM is active in keeping his friends and family in.

There is a degree of competition among FSMs, and FSMs can steal selectees. Your FSM is whoever you say your FSM is. Besides bringing you into Scientology, your FSM is the person you go to when you have problems or issues inside Scientology. As somebody who has been in longer than you, he is more likely to know the people, procedures, and policy, and can give you advice on how to handle difficulties in getting service, or in dealing with the "ethics officer". If your original FSM doesn't do this job, then you may be approached by someone else to take over this job, and become your new FSM.

There's two main kinds of FSMs: the casual Scientologist who brings his friends and family in, and the "professional" FSM, who is more like a registrar (sales person) and works on lots of people in order to make a living as an FSM.
 
So, to illustrate your situation - a Scientologist recently had emailed me a question, and also asked about my status with the church. I wrote up a brief statement of how I came to be declared, pointing out some of the Churches lies, books I'd read, etc in 4 fat paragraphs about how I came to be declared, and how reading books, going on the internet lead me to leave Scientology behind. I tried to keep it as natter free as possible. The person sent a nice ack email including this line:

"I had asked about the situation with the church just in case things had changed or straightened out. I did not know what it was and had heard it was something to the effect of a family situation. I get it. I hope it all rights itself in the future."

My efforts were for naught. Not that I expected much, and most likely the person skimmed what I wrote anyway. That, in a nut shell is the situation. Your well meaning thoughts and warnings may have no traction whatsoever.

In retrospect, I likely should have simply said: I was declared and have no desire to rejoin the group. But, whatever. I gave it a shot.

Mimsey
 
So automatically when a scientologist gets friends and family in, they become fsm and get money every time they buy a new service?
Typically, the new Scientologist finds out rather quickly about the "benifits" of being an FSM, and takes a free mini course which gives him /her drills on how to overcome objections, how to find the thing(s) the person is having problems with in their life, and how to show them Scientology can handle them, ( it's called "finding their ruin") how to fill out selection slips, the rules an FSM is to abide by. They get listed as an FSM and there is a person posted in the org who helps them, keeps them motivated, makes sure they get their commissions etc.

So, no, the person doesn't automatically become one - he/she has to take steps to become one. It is all based on the idea that word of mouth is the best sales approach.

Handing out tickets on the street corner to passers by are the least productive. Bulk mailings to people with similar interests fares somewhat better. There is a portion of the population who, upon reading negative press about Scientology, want to investigate it, feeling it must be good if it is being attacked. But one on one communication works the best.

Once they get them in the door they start methodically placing the person's foot in the bear trap and push the release allowing the jaws to snap shut. The person never sees his life's blood oozing from the teath of the bear trap. The reason this works - amazingly so, is because the staff and FSMs believe in Hubbard and Scientology technology. And thus we have this axiom:

Lies told by a person who is unaware he /she is lying are the most effective.

Mimsey
 

Onkel

Patron
Probably not wise neither an intelligent approach. A reaction from her on such a presentation could be that she will be assured that the world really needs to be told the good news so to speak. That would mean she might consider that she needs to work harder on getting Scientology disseminated and known. She will probably not look at all that evidence you present her. She wont trust it.

What is evidence after all? She has made some experiences. No matter how many lies there are it is true that she got those experiences. That is a key point. One could say that she has seen the light. Then showing her evidence that it is all lies is likely to give her the feeling that her say is totally by-passed and irrelevant. That doesn't give a nice feeling.

She needs somehow to get to a point where she is pissed off by the behaviour of the Scientology Organization to a degree where she thinks this is just not OK, it is too much. Most scientologists are probably pissed off to some degree, it is very hard not to be pissed off to some degree even when you are hooked on the subject. But people are usually willing to put up with quite a lot before the line is crossed.

One of the things that pissed me off when I started in Scientology was the heavy push to be on study 12½ hour every single week. I was doing a lot of exciting things in my life and spending that much time every single week on Scientology was a drag, but I put up with it because I bought the idea that it was vital.

Another thing that pissed me off was that I had agreed to make a bank loan in order to get Scientology service; it annoyed me for years, but I was still hooked on the subject.

A third thing that especially pissed me off was that at one point I wanted to take 10 days off from my Scientology studies because I wanted to go to a festival for new music in another country. It was festival where I would be actively participating that means performing new music (I am a musician). That kind of new music or avant garde music that most people thinks is weird but I like to play it. The supervisor wanted me to go through an intense word clearing. It took the whole night, so the poor word clearer had to stay up all night to get me through. I suppose that the supervisor believed that I would stay on course once the misunderstood words were found. I was very close to not making it going to the festival, but I did go and it was a wonderful festival.

Despite those annoying situations I was still hooked on the subject and one day I joined the Sea Org. I had some thoughts similar to what I wrote in the start of this post in that I thought it was very important that someone did the work to get the truth out.

So when I wrote that I think most scientologists are probably pissed off to some degree I wrote from my own experience. When a scientologist finally leave it could very well be because the line is crossed.

But after all I wrote here I will say that I could of course be wrong when I indicated above that showing her evidence is not wise neither an intelligent approach. If you can find a common sense way of doing it, well, then go ahead. But it is not easy to say the least.

***
Honestly I don't have any idea what I am doing. Right now I guess I'm just educating my self. I think it's scarry to think I'm being "watched". And it's scarry they might somehow use things I have written to push her into disconnecting with me. And I feel so bad because this could get her into trouble. On the other hand if they start telling her that I'm a bad person I hope that would get her thinking..But it's probably naive of me. In reality they are probably making sure she keeps repeating how great things are, and making a point at how my influence was bad for her. Now she is free to focus fully on scientology - and the results are outstanding!

The whole thing has left me so hurt. I'm not in contact with her at all. I don't recognize her at the moment and her decisions make no sense to me. So talking to her is like letting her step all over my heart in stilettos. It's too much.
I hope she will be pissed, though. Soon! I think you are probably right. You have to find out for yourself.
 

Onkel

Patron
Typically, the new Scientologist finds out rather quickly about the "benifits" of being an FSM, and takes a free mini course which gives him /her drills on how to overcome objections, how to find the thing(s) the person is having problems with in their life, and how to show them Scientology can handle them, ( it's called "finding their ruin") how to fill out selection slips, the rules an FSM is to abide by. They get listed as an FSM and there is a person posted in the org who helps them, keeps them motivated, makes sure they get their commissions etc.

So, no, the person doesn't automatically become one - he/she has to take steps to become one. It is all based on the idea that word of mouth is the best sales approach.

Handing out tickets on the street corner to passers by are the least productive. Bulk mailings to people with similar interests fares somewhat better. There is a portion of the population who, upon reading negative press about Scientology, want to investigate it, feeling it must be good if it is being attacked. But one on one communication works the best.

Once they get them in the door they start methodically placing the person's foot in the bear trap and push the release allowing the jaws to snap shut. The person never sees his life's blood oozing from the teath of the bear trap. The reason this works - amazingly so, is because the staff and FSMs believe in Hubbard and Scientology technology. And thus we have this axiom:

Lies told by a person who is unaware he /she is lying are the most effective.

Mimsey

Plus - you want to believe. I wanted to believe in wasn't as bad as I thought. Turns out it's worse than I had imagined!
 

Onkel

Patron
Well it sounds like the cognitive dissonance has already started kicking in.
She isn't going to hear anything against her new found passion.
There's the main sign that things are not going too well for her and she doesn't want to know it.
We can only hope that when she sees what really goes on in there, hopefully she will wake up sooner rather than later. It's something no one can predict with any real accuracy unfortunately.
All you can do at this time is to make sure nothing can get to you now.

In case you didn't know, OSA (scientology's secret police/gestapo/KGB/hoodlums) monitors this board and track down people by what info is given out in the posts. They are quite good at doing this kind of detective work, so if you don't want any one to find you guys out, be aware of what information you put in your posts. I think they have a bit to go on so far, so they may have figured out who your ex is by now and may talk to her to get you out of the way.
If something else suddenly goes haywire between you two, this may be an explanation for it.

She has been doing it for more than 15 years. Now she is just really hooked.. But months of doing nothing but sessions would probably have that effect on anybody.

It's so scarry, the picture you are painting.. I feel like a damned idiot. Didn't realize I was supposed to think like a secret agent.
 

guRl

Patron with Honors
The whole thing has left me so hurt. I'm not in contact with her at all. I don't recognize her at the moment and her decisions make no sense to me. So talking to her is like letting her step all over my heart in stilettos. It's too much.
I hope she will be pissed, though. Soon! I think you are probably right. You have to find out for yourself.

I think that's what's really tragic about this whole thing. From the research I did over the years, I came to see that while Scientologists witness a great many distressful things during their time in, it takes really bad punches to be served to them, themselves, in order for many of them to get up leave. As long as nothing really painful happens to you, just to the people around you, it's like you don't have reason enough to investigate further and eventually leave, and with the threat of disconnection and losing one's eternity, you have all the reasons to stay. It's horrible. And with all my research, it took me YEARS to realize that yes, these guys really and truly believe in what they do. Just imagine how hard to was for me to really get that!..

Anyway, girl, I'm so with you on this. I absolutely hate the fact that there's so little we can freely say to those people we love and used to know, that it's better and less painful for us to not say anything at all. Ugh.
 
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The_Fixer

Class Clown
She has been doing it for more than 15 years. Now she is just really hooked.. But months of doing nothing but sessions would probably have that effect on anybody.

It's so scarry, the picture you are painting.. I feel like a damned idiot. Didn't realize I was supposed to think like a secret agent.
15 years is a long time. I thought she had just joined up. Puts a different angle on it, as she is not getting out anytime soon and not listening to anything negative. The cognitive dissonance would be well ingrained now.

No one is really supposed to experience this sort of crap. Scientology is a very ruthless and paranoid organisation as most cults are. It is designed to trap people and get everything out of them and if they end up as a withered bankrupt person without even their soul, it doesn't matter. The cult always comes first and Scientology is one of the more nasty ones. Its founder was a ruthless, paranoid psycho who found it distasteful to be truthful, so it stands to reason the cult he founded would be any different.

The cult has always strived to protect itself and continue to expand. Hence the creation of their secret police, the OSA. They have no morals or limits as to what they will do to ensure the cult comes out on top. A bit like what the KGB did for Russia (note the clever avoidance of Godwin's Law there? ;) ). They will never admit it, but Scientology is slowly imploding and diminishing, especially with the more recent avalanche (!) of defecting celebrities.

Don't feel stupid. At least you stayed out of it unlike many of us, so you were smarter in the right ways. It is designed to be insidious and deceptive, so for the more open people it has a way of getting under your skin without you even realising it.
 
She has been doing it for more than 15 years. Now she is just really hooked.. But months of doing nothing but sessions would probably have that effect on anybody.

It's so scary, the picture you are painting.. I feel like a damned idiot. Didn't realize I was supposed to think like a secret agent.
Don't freak out. They have a spectrum of people they watch - the top 3 being Tony Ortega, Mike Rinder and Leah Remini - after that are the blogers like Chris Sheldon, and the authors of books critical of Scientology, then lawyers who have sued Scientology, people who have or could be guests on Leah's tv series, members of the media, etc. These people they will fair game or make hate sites about them.

Next are ex- sea org staff who know sensitive data. Then come the people they have declared, and further down are posters like me and HH and all the other regulars etc. on ESMB. You are even further down the food chain since you aren't a scientologist - but are connected to one.

Their interest in you is pretty much this - they will hire a hacker to try to find out who you are and make a file of your posts and what ever else they can find, such as your contact info, physical address etc.

More than likely they already have that info, since she no doubt talked about your situation with her MAA at the org she frequents. The MAA would ask her for the info and expect her to divulge it. It would be in a file they keep on you.

More importantly they will link your file to your exes. Lets say she joins the sea org, and then blows - the link in her file that has your data will become an asset because she may go to your house, where they could track her down ( per the blow drill) and try to convince her to come back.

But for now, they will just sit on the data, much like the stored video recordings a bank keeps of those who enters their premises, to be used to ID a crook in a robbery. Nothing may ever come of it. But they keep the data nonetheless.

Mimsey
 
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Terril park

Sponsor
She has been doing it for more than 15 years. Now she is just really hooked.. But months of doing nothing but sessions would probably have that effect on anybody.

It's so scarry, the picture you are painting.. I feel like a damned idiot. Didn't realize I was supposed to think like a secret agent.
There is one avenue I don't think you've tried. Tell her she can do Scn outside the church in whats called the Freezone or independent field. They don't do disconnection as a rule. I've got people out of COS by letting them know can do all services outside of CO$.

I've been a scientologist for 50 or so years, half of it in
the FZ. I think almost all criticism is valuable.

Other than that I think and have found that
Scn auditing can be very beneficial and worthwhile even
if it not always is.

This is not suprising really in that most auditors
do not have extensive training. Its sort of miraculous
some get the results they do with minimal training.

I also think everyone is free to follow whatever path
they wish.

That believe it or not is a scientological view.

The organisation is toxic and is best ignored, or protested
as I have done for 8 years.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
.


Originally Posted by Terril Park --snipped--
I also think everyone is free to follow whatever path they wish. That believe it or not is a scientological view.


"Everyone is free to follow whatever path they wish".

That is absolutely NOT a Scientological view. Never was. Never will be. Ridiculous.

Anyone who has been in and around Scientology soon learns that (aside from the cult's guru) nobody is free to follow whatever path they wish.

The Indies will disagree, but then consider that Indies LEFT Scientology and simply don't believe in ADMIN TECH nor ETHICS TECH. Hubbard emphatically stated that the tech will not work unless you use all the ethics tech and get ethics "in". Thus, we have the absurd situation of a person disavowing most of Scientology tech, yet still calling themselves a Scientologist.

Kind of like a Christian who believes in the Bible, just not the parts about God or Jesus.

.
 

Onkel

Patron
There is one avenue I don't think you've tried. Tell her she can do Scn outside the church in whats called the Freezone or independent field. They don't do disconnection as a rule. I've got people out of COS by letting them know can do all services outside of CO$.

I've been a scientologist for 50 or so years, half of it in
the FZ. I think almost all criticism is valuable.

Other than that I think and have found that
Scn auditing can be very beneficial and worthwhile even
if it not always is.

This is not suprising really in that most auditors
do not have extensive training. Its sort of miraculous
some get the results they do with minimal training.

I also think everyone is free to follow whatever path
they wish.

That believe it or not is a scientological view.

The organisation is toxic and is best ignored, or protested
as I have done for 8 years.

I get that scientologists feel like they have been helped in some way and to a certain point. I think mainly it's because it's good to talk about things. And maybe the whole thing with the e meter will get people to tell it all - sometimes people are not honest when they for instances go see another kind of therapist. And the more you talk about traumatizing events the less they tend to build up inside. When you say things out loud you gain perspective - and that would happen anywhere if you are open and truthful. In my opinion. But scientology will take all credit, and make you give all credit to them.
 

Onkel

Patron
Don't freak out. They have a spectrum of people they watch - the top 3 being Tony Ortega, Mike Rinder and Leah Remini - after that are the blogers like Chris Sheldon, and the authors of books critical of Scientology, then lawyers who have sued Scientology, people who have or could be guests on Leah's tv series, members of the media, etc. These people they will fair game or make hate sites about them.

Next are ex- sea org staff who know sensitive data. Then come the people they have declared, and further down are posters like me and HH and all the other regulars etc. on ESMB. You are even further down the food chain since you aren't a scientologist - but are connected to one.

Their interest in you is pretty much this - they will hire a hacker to try to find out who you are and make a file of your posts and what ever else they can find, such as your contact info, physical address etc.

More than likely they already have that info, since she no doubt talked about your situation with her MAA at the org she frequents. The MAA would ask her for the info and expect her to divulge it. It would be in a file they keep on you.

More importantly they will link your file to your exes. Lets say she joins the sea org, and then blows - the link in her file that has your data will become an asset because she may go to your house, where they could track her down ( per the blow

Mimsey
Thanks - that's good to know. She is in no way a prominent person. But she is close to some who are.
 

Terril park

Sponsor
.





"Everyone is free to follow whatever path they wish".

That is absolutely NOT a Scientological view. Never was. Never will be. Ridiculous.

Anyone who has been in and around Scientology soon learns that (aside from the cult's guru) nobody is free to follow whatever path they wish.

The Indies will disagree, but then consider that Indies LEFT Scientology and simply don't believe in ADMIN TECH nor ETHICS TECH. Hubbard emphatically stated that the tech will not work unless you use all the ethics tech and get ethics "in". Thus, we have the absurd situation of a person disavowing most of Scientology tech, yet still calling themselves a Scientologist.

Kind of like a Christian who believes in the Bible, just not the parts about God or Jesus.

.
Following the path they wish is most definitely aligns
with scientology doctrine. Not that the CO$ actually does so
and violations of this are too numerous to detail here.

"Grant beingness: the ability to assume or grant beingness
is probably the highest of human virtues."FOT

You I believe put forth Hubbard's law of commotion whereby
everything he says he also contradicts elsewhere.
Thus it is quite sensible to choose which statement you with to
follow.

Thus one may well put aside Hubbards statements in admin and ethics. Unless you enjoy being a robot. Gave that up a
long time ago.
 
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