My Pain and Jett Travolta

Bee Sting

Patron with Honors
:) Unconditional Love!

I love my little girl! Thank you so much for your support! It means a lot to me.

She is truly the love of my life. Such a beautiful thing that never judge, criticize and just loves whom she loves just because she does. How can one not love another that asks NOTHING in return?

How lucky am I knowing someone loves me just because!

One of my biggest BEE beefs in Scientology is that I am being told who I can love and whom I cannot! I cannot change the way my heart feels! It is what it is!

Scientology taught me the difference between body and mind. The body might be captured in the RPF but NO ONE unless I choose - can enslave the mind.

I am what I am I! I think what I think! How does one capture thoughts? In a volcano?

If I don't speak, there is NO way no one knows my mind, no auditor could ever pull that from me and it was not because I was having withholds.

If I were not sure I believed something or if doubted it might be, those thoughts would have been holding something back and that would have been a w/h.

But, when I believed in what is (truism) - it is not! (I got a F/N)

I love so being a wog because that is what gives me the freedom to love the things I choose to love. And, I choose her, my little girl!

I choose every child that is in Scientology. Every child left behind by its parent for the "greatest good of all" and sent on missions more important to the "cause" of clearing the planet than a little soul asking no more than a kiss goodnight before falling asleep.

Too bad, her father will never know that she might hold no grudge and welcome his presence without prejudice and greet him with no questions asked even after him wishing her eternal damnation.

Scuzzy? Well, those are the remnants’ Scientology leave behind.

Let's hope the cause to expose the CoS and its violations to human rights, dignity and freedom of speech will find its voice and end the warped point of view of those that are not acceptable to fit their (Scientology) point of view worthy of existence.

I am sorry for unloading and I thank you for listening.

Bee Sting
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
Don't be sorry for unloading. It's more than unloading, since doing so here brings another bit of the 'secret' of Scientology in the open and adds to the bulk of information that can *stop* it.

Zinj
 

Bee Sting

Patron with Honors
Thank you! I needed to hear that!

I agree we need to get together and talk about our experiences. Exposure!

I think Scio made a big error in judgement. As much effort LRH put into KSW it lead to such efforts off loading masses of wonderful individuals that now, this mass is growing faster and larger than Scientology can keep up with.

If my little bzz help expose their dirty little laundry, count me in!
 

Markus

Silver Meritorious Patron
I have to aks you a question Airhead:

Actually, I have to disagree with this.

Scientology doesn't necessarily CREATE inhumane, uncaring people. There are a lot of totally inhuman people in this world, and I really don't think that Scientoloogy changes this aspect of people (although I am willing to be proven wrong).

I grew up in Scn and was in the SO for a loooooong time. Yes, it warped me, but it NEVER removed my humanity -- and I knew a LOT of truly human and caring people, both in Scn and out of Scn.

Humanity is either in you or it isn't, and some people are just BORN ass holes or are SEVERELY warped during their formative years.

Where is the humanity in Hubbards writings? In my opinion it is not a problem of too many bad and inhuman people inside Scientology but in deed a problem of evil inhuman writings from the "Founder". If you are not able you are lost in the Scientology "system"!
And above all there is an arrogant amateurism in this "Church" in dealing with ill and handicapped or psychotic people. They think they have an answer to anything and believe they can controll everything but in fact they know nothing. This is what I observed!

We have to stop this crazy nonsence as soon as possible.

Thanks for your story Bee Sting. You are a very brave heart.

Love

Markus
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
Markus, I've seen some lovely lovely sentiments in Hubbard's writings. I remember one- and I don't remember all of it or which HCOB it was- but it was something about a universe that laughs at a man's dreams and beats him down. Very moving.

However, there are enough things in Scn policy, even some in Scn tech, that take that humanity away. Plus many of Hubbard's actions. So, no, I don't agree that Hubbard's writings had no humanity- it's just that he turned around and belied all of that. Actually, that's even worse.

(now watch some dork try to turn this around and claim I'm writing a pro tech post or something when I'm actually doing the opposite. Don't do it, guys- you'll only piss me off!)
 

airhead

Patron with Honors
Where is the humanity in Hubbards writings? In my opinion it is not a problem of too many bad and inhuman people inside Scientology but in deed a problem of evil inhuman writings from the "Founder". If you are not able you are lost in the Scientology "system"!
And above all there is an arrogant amateurism in this "Church" in dealing with ill and handicapped or psychotic people. They think they have an answer to anything and believe they can controll everything but in fact they know nothing. This is what I observed!

We have to stop this crazy nonsence as soon as possible.

Thanks for your story Bee Sting. You are a very brave heart.

Love

Markus

Thanks for the question, Markus.

I was "reacting" a little bit to AlmostHuman's statement: "It [Scientology] takes decent human beings (as I expect your husband was before) and divorces them from their connetion to humanity. In trying to decrease their weaknesses they lose the best of themselves."

I was in Scientology all my life (and in the Sea Org for a long time), and no, I was never DIVORCED from my connection to humanity. Impeded, yes. Divorced, no.

I know some people who turned into complete assholes, and I know some people who remained good. So IMHO, not EVERYONE was divorced from their humanity -- impeded, yes. Divorced, no.

And personally, I think the assholes were innately assholes to begin with. So, although Scn does many things, I think that only the weak, ignorant and the evil become inhumane.
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
Thanks for the question, Markus.

I was "reacting" a little bit to AlmostHuman's statement: "It [Scientology] takes decent human beings (as I expect your husband was before) and divorces them from their connetion to humanity. In trying to decrease their weaknesses they lose the best of themselves."

I was in Scientology all my life (and in the Sea Org for a long time), and no, I was never DIVORCED from my connection to humanity. Impeded, yes. Divorced, no.

I know some people who turned into complete assholes, and I know some people who remained good. So IMHO, not EVERYONE was divorced from their humanity -- impeded, yes. Divorced, no.

And personally, I think the assholes were innately assholes to begin with. So, although Scn does many things, I think that only the weak, ignorant and the evil become inhumane.

I think so, too, up to a point. I do think most mean Scn'ists are that way because they are mean, angry, etc. All I have to do there is look at the people who supposedly have been "out" for years and who act uncannily like the vicious jerks I knew in CofS and also I recall the people in CofS who were lovely and decent no matter what happened. But I will say this- we all have our negative side (as well as our positive) and stress and other situations can bring out the worst in all of us. But in the end? Free will is free will.
 

airhead

Patron with Honors
I think so, too, up to a point. I do think most mean Scn'ists are that way because they are mean, angry, etc. All I have to do there is look at the people who supposedly have been "out" for years and who act uncannily like the vicious jerks I knew in CofS and also I recall the people in CofS who were lovely and decent no matter what happened. But I will say this- we all have our negative side (as well as our positive) and stress and other situations can bring out the worst in all of us. But in the end? Free will is free will.

LOL, yes, situations CAN bring out the worst in us.

But some people feel guilt and remorse. Some people apologize. Some people temper their negative emotions. And other people, IMHO, were mean/nasty long before they could dot an "i" or cross the "t" in OT...

Some day I'd like to study it, but I suspect that a person's predominant behavior in kindergarten sort of shines through his/her whole life. Brats remain brats. Bullies get worse. Creative ones keep creating. Solitary ones stay solitary. Etc.:confused2:

(And of course the bed-wetters never stop.... just kidding)


I can be wrong (and frequently am) :eyeroll:
 

Tiger Lily

Gold Meritorious Patron
Loved that post Bee Sting! It made me feel good to read it. Love is the most important thing in life, the unconditional kind, and that was one thing that I never experienced while in Scientology. Your post reminded me empty life was then. I'm so glad you are in a place where you can feel that love and never have to qualify it with labels, or ethics handlings or auditing programs. . .

Way to go! :thumbsup:

:love8: :love2: :love2: :love2: :love8:
-TL
 
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Markus

Silver Meritorious Patron
It is just unbelievable how Scientology can manipulate a human being!

Well let's talk about my brother Uwe Stuckenbrock for example. When he left us here in Germany in 1980 he was a 17 year old man full of joie de vivre he organized a party in our house every two weeks and was very handsome to everybody loving his freedom and respecting the freedom of others.
You could talk with him about everything and he always took the time to listen to your problems.
He did not want to go to the "Bundeswehr" (the German army).
In 1980 he joined the Sea Org - since then I was never able to realy talk to him again in the sense of a real communication. Even when we had time to talk (he once visited us in Germany and I visited him once in LA) it was obvious that he had to hide so many things - he was not able to speek freely. Not only when he was in the RPF - there was no communication possible that was going to the ground all the rest of the 28 years of his life.
And before he got ill with his MS he was the Security Chief Int - and he did some very cruel things to others that I just can't believe but it happened! You can read Twin A's story - my brother was holding her back when she wanted to run away from the Sea Org. And thats so strange to me because he was so very, very different when he left us 28 years ago.
 

Tiger Lily

Gold Meritorious Patron
Well let's talk about my brother Uwe Stuckenbrock for example. When he left us here in Germany in 1980 he was a 17 year old man full of joie de vivre he organized a party in our house every two weeks and was very handsome to everybody loving his freedom and respecting the freedom of others.
You could talk with him about everything and he always took the time to listen to your problems.
He did not want to go to the "Bundeswehr" (the German army).
In 1980 he joined the Sea Org - since then I was never able to realy talk to him again in the sense of a real communication. Even when we had time to talk (he once visited us in Germany and I visited him once in LA) it was obvious that he had to hide so many things - he was not able to speek freely. Not only when he was in the RPF - there was no communication possible that was going to the ground all the rest of the 28 years of his life.
And before he got ill with his MS he was the Security Chief Int - and he did some very cruel things to others that I just can't believe but it happened! You can read Twin A's story - my brother was holding her back when she wanted to run away from the Sea Org. And thats so strange to me because he was so very, very different when he left us 28 years ago.

Markus that's so sad! But I believe every word. I hope he finds himself again soon.

-TL
 

Good twin

Floater
I agree with Markus. I was not myself while in the thick of it. I still had moments of clarity and humanity. But while being pressured to do the greatest good for the greatest number and operating under the fear that the world depended on my ability to push through real and imagined barriers, I did many things that were just not part of my basic makeup. I swear!!
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
LOL, yes, situations CAN bring out the worst in us.

But some people feel guilt and remorse. Some people apologize. Some people temper their negative emotions. And other people, IMHO, were mean/nasty long before they could dot an "i" or cross the "t" in OT...

Some day I'd like to study it, but I suspect that a person's predominant behavior in kindergarten sort of shines through his/her whole life. Brats remain brats. Bullies get worse. Creative ones keep creating. Solitary ones stay solitary. Etc.:confused2:

(And of course the bed-wetters never stop.... just kidding)


I can be wrong (and frequently am) :eyeroll:

I think that's mainly true but again, me being me (argumentative) I will also say that people do change as people sometimes. Sometimes for the better, sometimes not. There are people who used to be bullies in school but who stopped being that way. I remember I used to go to school with this kid- oh gad, she was really mean. And my Mom worked with that kid's Dad so there was a sort of thought around my house that I should give Cathy a chance.

Then when we were, I think, high school juniors or seniors, she mellowed out completely. She was the nicest girl you could ever meet. The other stuff had been a phase or something.

So you've got the kid going through phase thing and also, too, adults can have sea changes.
 

oudeis

Patron
I was on staff in small Mission when I met “Maria.” It’s not her real name but to conceal her true identity, I will call her Maria.

The mission was small and I could hear much any session that took place through the beveled doors that separate the only auditing room from the rest of the org. Maria was audited by her Mother, a Class VII or so (I forget) Auditor.

Maria was diabetic from early childhood. She received many hours of auditing from her mom trying to handle her psychosomatic aberration or however they put it.

One day, I hear Maria babbling to herself and she seemed to think there was something above her head. I couldn’t see it but apparently she needed to communicate to this invisible “entity.” I would hear her give commands or acknowledgements like “sit down”, “stop it“, “ok”, “that’s it” or”very good” etc.

Being a brand new Scientologist I didn’t understand what was going on and I thought it was pretty bizarre. Then, I would observe her “flicking” things off her legs or other parts of her body and communicate in the same way to these “flicks.”

One day Maria explained to me her behavior. She said she had a “theta spider” living on top of her head and this is was to who she was communicating with when she was looking up. The “flicking” was getting rid of her “Body Thetans.” Of course, I had no idea what this was all about until much later on in Scientology.

But anyhow, I moved on and many weeks and months past and then I received news that Maria was doing well. She was doing great in auditing and was going off her insulin. Yet, a year or so past and I heard nothing until when I day I learned she”dropped her body.” I was very sad to hear the news because she believed so intently she would eventually be able to stop taking her medication.

Another year or so later, I learned more about Maria’s death. She had full blown diabetes Type-B, the most severe form there is and she stopped taking her insulin. Her mother happily reported how successful she had been before her death finally attaining some kind of whatever level. I didn’t hear much about Maria’s wins or levels through the conversation. All I could think about is how she died and I wondered why. Why Maria?

Soon after, Maria’s mother and her sister packed up their belongings and moved to Clearwater Florida. I believe they are still there today.

Years after leaving the Sea Org and Scientology for good, I gave birth to a beautiful baby girl but a few weeks into her new born life something went wrong. She had encephalitis (brain swelling) which caused a series of unstoppable grand maul seizures. The doctors had no choice but to induce her into a medical coma. This incident left her with severe and irreversible brain damage but I never learned what caused her condition.

In a conversation with husband, very much a Scientologist even being out for so many years, I learned what he and how Scientology views any one with disabilities. His words in reference to my beautiful little girl were “they put dogs to sleep.” I divorced him!

Scientology believe people with disabilities are “degraded beings” and somehow my husband blamed me for causing, yes, causing her condition. It was my fault, I caused it and I was no longer the “perfect” mother whom gave birth to his first born son. I fell from his “pedestal”, as he put it.

In years that followed, I fought tremendously with my little girl’s doctors and care takers but thanks to their passion and understanding, they gently coached me in understanding that all drugs are not bad. With their incredible patience I learned to become an advocate for my little girl. I learned about her medications, the risk and side effects but most importantly, the benefits. One of the drugs she has to take is Valium an absolute no, no in Scientology.

In the mean time my now ex-husband, sought sole custody of my son. He “Faired Gamed” me. My neighbors were talked to, my real estate agent was talked to, my employer was talked to and my very own lawyer was talked to. I changed lawyer!

In a phone conversation with my son, he TOLD me I should agree to pay child support to based on potential future earnings of $60,000 per year when at the time I was unemployed and had never made more that $30,000 per year in my entire life, my son told me this, my son!

I didn’t fight custody. I had visitation rights but whenever I called to speak with my son he was too busy or out doing something else and he would “get back to me later.” Well, later never came and later always went.

Every now and then I think of Maria. I wonder what if?

I think of her mother and I wonder why? I don’t understand!

I think of my little girl’s daddy that never thought for a second of whom or what she might become and above all I miss son. How cruel the world can be and how different perhaps things might have been if it was not for Scientology and its policies of disconnect and fair game.

When I visit my little pumpkin she always greets me with a smile. I am not sure she knows the concept of “mother” but I know I am one of the ones she loves. Sometimes, I have to share her affection with whom she greets the same (like a care taker) but that’s ok because I know she is happy in the life she lives.

She is blind but she always turns her head and coos when I am there. When I see her smile I know she loves me - unconditionally and I know that the smiles she gives belong to me.


When I heard about Jett Travolta I feel their pain and I grieve with them. I am the last person in the world who have the right to criticize and judge any another parent in their decision in the care of their child.

I am the last to have anything to say because I have fought so hard for so long and I have been all alone with the all decisions to make about my little girl. And yet, a piece of me - does!

Maria was 32 years old when she died. Maria was my sister-in-law. I miss her very much. Even though I know why, I still ask, why?

Are you a troll?

There's no such thing as diabetes type B.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diabetes

Anyone who behaved as you describe 'Maria' did, would have been risking expulsion for discussing case with someone not authorized to hear.
 

Megalomaniac

Silver Meritorious Patron
Hold yer tongue

I got my hands slapped for less than this. :naughty: We're not supposed to accuse trolls. We're supposed to be friendly, at least on their thread.

Bee Sting, will you kindly explain what is Diabetics type B and how Maria was able to give out such secrets and not be declared Suppressive or put in bad bad Ethics trouble?

By the way, I'm still working on my I Am Not a Troll certification.

Mac
 

Bee Sting

Patron with Honors
I got my hands slapped for less than this. :naughty: We're not supposed to accuse trolls. We're supposed to be friendly, at least on their thread.

Bee Sting, will you kindly explain what is Diabetics type B and how Maria was able to give out such secrets and not be declared Suppressive or put in bad bad Ethics trouble?

By the way, I'm still working on my I Am Not a Troll certification.

Mac

:hysterical: This is so funny, troll?

I talked to a friend of mine that is diabetic. I asked her to explain the difference between Type A and B. She looked at me, smiled then shook her head. I said "What?" Hello! Then, she chuckled and she gently explained that yes, there are two types - one that can be controlled by diet which is how my friend, Elaine keeps her diabetes under control.

Then she said the second type is usually onset at childhood and requires medication such as insulin shots.

Maria, from what I was told was diagnosed with Diabetis at age 9. She had other medical issues but I don't know if these were related to, caused by or as a result of, her condition of diabetes. I dont' know that!

What I do know is what is I said in my story. Thanks to a wonderful link to Wikipedia I have learned that there is no such thing as Type A or B. :coolwink: But, it does not make my story any less true.

Maria was very real and I came to love her dearly. In the beginning, it was hard for me to understand some of her peculiar behavior, esp speaking to her thetans but I as became more involved with Scientology I understood what she was talking about.

In actuality, yeah, "things" were explained to me in quite some detail. I have no answer as to why she was not RPF'ed or not in ethics. I can speculate but that would be totally uncool!

One reason (of millions), why I am here on this board; is to find answers that makes no sense when I read all the things published on the internet. Once in a while it feels as if I were part of a different Scientology.

I need to heal and I have stories to tell (maybe?) I don't know the quality or value of those stories other than a personal quest to know the truth. Was I lied to? If so, why? Have I been privied to information I should not have known, I'd say yes!

OT III material for one and there is more. Some is 2nd hand, some is what I've seen 1st hand then explained. But nontheless, a lot of it is published on the internet and I've already known about it!

I choose to tell my story in a "story" format because that was the easiest for me. I will probably do it again, more stories - when I am ready!

I might get a few facts wrong here and there but what I will share, it will be the truth as honest as I know it or as close as I remember. And yes, I was told it was type B (sigh!):melodramatic:

When I told my story, I wanted to leave certain interpretations to the readers and yet, explain how I felt without bashing anything or anybody. I could easily do that, the bashing part but I am not here at this board for this reason.

I think we all have many stories to tell. I find myself relating to many things I read here. I often go back an re-read threads and answers. Sometimes, I even begin to write a reply but then I change my mind.

I so truly appreciate all the feed back and "trolling" :thumbsup: I can deal with that!

I am here to heal, to sort out the bad, the ugly and the stuff in between. I have so much to tell but I don't how! I don't where to begin.

I need the place, time, form and event, my audience and the know how. :confused2: I am still learning.

There is more depths to my story. I would encourage anyone to read it again. I have so much so say but I just don't know how.

Ok, so I guess, I'll be trolling around, eh?

BTW! When I was growing up TROLLS where not bad! They were tiny little, big eared people looking out for all the wounded and lost animals (or souls, people) in the forest, helping them finding their way back home.

Trolls were good not evil! :)

Much BEE love and thanks for your point of view,

Bzzzzzzzz
 

Megalomaniac

Silver Meritorious Patron
The Good Troll

:hysterical: This is so funny, troll?

...

Ok, so I guess, I'll be trolling around, eh?

...

Much BEE love and thanks for your point of view,

Bzzzzzzzz

Bee Sting, you are the best troll ever. :yes:

You can troll on my threads any time. :thumbsup:

:hug: mac
 

me myself & i

Patron Meritorious
:hysterical:

BTW! When I was growing up TROLLS where not bad! They were tiny little, big eared people looking out for all the wounded and lost animals (or souls, people) in the forest, helping them finding their way back home.

Trolls were good not evil! :)

Bzzzzzzzz

"....everytime we've found a troll hiding under a bridge on any message board we have found that individual troll to have commited unspeakable crimes against humanity (& that message board too) in the past. Horrible horrific perverted sadistic unimaginable crimes. Really unseemly internet behavior. Trolls. That's what we call em.

And....

...we now have the data that identifies 12 Individual Master Trolls that are actually running the entire worlds internet web-based Messageboards, and have been doing so for the last 75 trillion years, of your life. And that is a cold-blooded fact Bee Sting. Factually speaking. Scientifically speaking. In Knowingness.

I've done the research. It's complete now."

mm&i

P.S. If..."the only way to control a person is to lie to that person", is true, then I must be in control of you, right now.

Which reveals an absurdity worth pondering.

Partly in the wording (of form) and partly in the meaning (of experience).

Lol.:yes:

I Laugh Therefore I am

And can be quoted on that too.

See Above.

Lol.

mm&i
&we

& Only Gods can Laugh, (if they have any Fucking Sense of Humor at All....)

& We Do.

Lol!

Which is quotable too. Come to think of it.

Lol!

In certain circles.

So to speak.



Love is Life.
Life is Love.

(Understanding
the Details,
Notwithstanding).

Do you get it?

Or perhaps better stated: how do you see it?"
 
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