my story as a post-GAT auditor

cantsay

Patron Meritorious

Cantsay,

It was wonderful to see you blossoming more and more as you lifted off all the crap the true nutters in the "org" put on you.

Sad to say, the "org" is now a totally insane, criminal operation that ensnares good folk trying to do good things.

I've long noted that the auditors are not the problem there: it's the bloody execs who miss-use their management power.

Was fascinating to read your woes on the issue of doing the honorable thing of correctly acting to report and seek to correct the violations and abuses you witnessed. Sad to say, it seems to have only intensified since my similarly being given the "negative processing retaliation R/D" for having reported up lines the high crimes of a senior (London 1967-8) and Melbourne 1963. And let's not talk about being FSO public demanding a BofI to handle crap!

Cantsay, you have certainly earned honor and respect among we old veterans with your report here.

And it is wonderful to see you recovering more and more of your true self by doing so!:happydance:

:thankyou: :grouphug:

Roger

Thankyou! I agree completely - auditors and C/Ses are generally working their asses off to do the right thing. Stats and ethics can make execs others like dirt. :no:
Id love to read your story sometime too!
 

cantsay

Patron Meritorious
thanks for story Cantsay
thank you for having the courage to speak out; I would suggest that you take your story to the local police and formally file a complaint about your physical and emotional abuse. The more attention that is given to the criminal behaviour, the quicker the exploitation will stop.

I dont think I could do this. Im still a bit upset about what happened, but I know why people did it, and it was a long time ago. I have no desire for punishment or revenge. I think writing my story is enough - anyone curious about why I left can find it, and Im willing to help anyone who wants it. Thats enough for me.

I understand your viewpoint though! Thankyou :)
 

cantsay

Patron Meritorious
:thumbsup: cantsay and thanks for the story.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Sorry to see that some people I knew and liked from Sydney turned into such "fire-breathing Product Officers" and made your life hell - I remember them as quite decent people when i knew them.

Enjoy your weekend too!

Im sorry if Ive caused you any upset with my story, I know how hard it is to hear that people havent acted the way you thought they do. Im sure they were decent people once - but Im not the only one they have treated badly. There are quite a lot of "disaffected" public, and exstaff who copped it from those two.
 

scooter

Gold Meritorious Patron
Im sorry if Ive caused you any upset with my story, I know how hard it is to hear that people havent acted the way you thought they do. Im sure they were decent people once - but Im not the only one they have treated badly. There are quite a lot of "disaffected" public, and exstaff who copped it from those two.

Mate - no upset caused at all - I sort of expect this behaviour from scilons these days so nice behaviour from them is a pleasant suprise :p
 

EP - Ethics Particle

Gold Meritorious Patron
A tale told well and truly!

"Cantsay", thou hast said...:coolwink:

Thank you so very much for your contributions and presence on this board! :thumbsup:

Roy, the EP's EP (Mike)
 

HCObringOrder?

Silver Meritorious Patron
Cantsay - your AO section.

Cantsay, you did not miss much of Flag when you were sent to the AO. It sounds like you were on the RPF while on course, so you saw the underbelly of a Flag experience.
The rest of your experience sounds like they are the actions of desperate people who are stressed to the point of crazy.
Preasure from the top, lack of experience/training/etc from the bottom.
Some people are really good at manipulation of others and see it as a game. Some do it because their parents did it, and those people cannot see the destruction they cause untill their nose is rubbed in it.

You had more guts and powers of mental fortitude than I did. Still, the sheer mass of pressure made your fight seem little.
It was not little.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
 

cantsay

Patron Meritorious
Still, the sheer mass of pressure made your fight seem little.
It was not little.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Thankyou, youve brought tears to my eyes.... :bigcry: Im still coming to grips with a lot of things - in the GAT thread I started I still find myself arguing in defense of a lot of stuff, even when I know its probably wrong. Still got a way to go I guess!
 

GreyLensman

Silver Meritorious Patron
Thankyou, youve brought tears to my eyes.... :bigcry: Im still coming to grips with a lot of things - in the GAT thread I started I still find myself arguing in defense of a lot of stuff, even when I know its probably wrong. Still got a way to go I guess!


In regards to: "Still got a way to go I guess"

This, too, shall pass.

I spoke those words from the heart to my son when he was in deep trouble, and through upsets and trials. Not rote, but truth. I could support him, stand by him, help, but some of life must just be lived by the person himself.

He had them tattooed on his arm at age 20 to remind him. It was vitally important to him, at the time, he found it over the years true, and he told me it helped.

In regard to: "I still find myself arguing in defense of a lot of stuff, even when I know its probably wrong"

I still love the definition "workable technology". Did you get results? OK, then. You are not wrong. Strict right and wrong is less useful than more or less workable.

I have a wider viewpoint only because I've seen strict interpretations and definitions of F/N's, metering, etc., come in like a banshee one year, tons of people brought in from orgs to retrain, TTC extended and redone, and then flash - five years later there is a completely different set of rules, just as adamantly professed as the only way this can be done correctly.

It was never that precise. That was always a lie.

And last: Welcome to ESMB.
 

Been Done Had

Patron with Honors
Cantsay

I am really enjoying your posts, there is a bit of an anti-Gat bias on this board, a lot of people were burned and invalidated. Plus it was pretty hard to swallow that Ron built it wrong. And let us do it wwrong for so long.

You provide some great insight into the INTENTION of GAT.

What have you to say about the "robotic" descriptor of post GAT auditors. I was pre Golden Age and the sessions I had were loose, effective, high ARC and powerful.

I'm a firm believer some should be auditors and some shouldn't. You seem to fall into the natural born audditor category.

How they lose you?
 

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
Thankyou for reading my story guys. I appreciate it. <..snip>
Thank you so much for writing it!

I know that you're not looking for agreement or sympathy but I just have to say that what you've described strikes me as a horror story, you're a brave soul in my estimation and kudos to you for surviving it!

Your story has already helped people finally make up their minds about the actual intentions and activities of the CofS. It will undoubtedly help many more who read it here on ESMB in the future. Thank YOU.
<..snip> Im still coming to grips with a lot of things - in the GAT thread I started I still find myself arguing in defense of a lot of stuff, even when I know its probably wrong. Still got a way to go I guess!
This, to me, is normal. I don't for a moment think that everything in scn is crap.

As an Auditor you have seen the wins of PCs and know that certain things are achievable with scn. It's the way these things are used by the CofS in their game of greed and manipulation that I revile.

My current favourite analogy is to liken scn to a "Spiritual Poker/Slot Machine"! :)
Yes, it pays off every now and then, usually just enough to keep you pumping in the coins and coming back for more.
Every now and then it pays off big-time and you jump for joy at your good fortune... if only you could simply walk away.

Most gambling addicts would readily identify with the CofS operation; the only real winner is the House and they'll take you for everything you've got. With the CofS, it's always a case of "Your Money or your Life" as the old Highwaymen used to demand of their victims.

Of course, the old Highwaymen of yore were much more honest and upfront, at least you knew you were being robbed. :D
 

cantsay

Patron Meritorious
It was never that precise.

AH HAA!!!!! Thats IT!!! Thats what Ive been struggling with!!!! Ive always had the idea that if you arent exactly perfect or "flubless" in every way then it wont work!!! Thats a big piece of false data. It worked for Ron, it worked for all the pre GAT auditors, and it works for GAT auditors - all in the context of it being the right action for the pc (which if it isnt, isnt, no matter how you do it).

Thanks for that!!! Big cog for me! Wooo!! :happydance:
 

cantsay

Patron Meritorious
Cantsay

I am really enjoying your posts, there is a bit of an anti-Gat bias on this board, a lot of people were burned and invalidated. Plus it was pretty hard to swallow that Ron built it wrong. And let us do it wwrong for so long.

You provide some great insight into the INTENTION of GAT.

Yes, and I understand why. There is the same bias on the other way round with auditors still in.

What have you to say about the "robotic" descriptor of post GAT auditors. I was pre Golden Age and the sessions I had were loose, effective, high ARC and powerful.

I'm a firm believer some should be auditors and some shouldn't. You seem to fall into the natural born audditor category.

I dont know, I only ever got audited by GAT auditors in my org, so I dont have anything to compare to. I always felt very comfortable and didnt feel distracted by roboticness on the part of the auditor. Mike (the CS) was an awesome auditor, such amazing ARC in session, even when he was doing some crap sec check devised by others. I havent known enough GAT auditors to make a generalisation like "they are all robotic".

I remember being a coach for someone during a TRs video at the AO - this guy was a lovely person in general anyway, and I remember he is asking me over and over "do birds fly", and each time I just said yes - his TRs were so good, trying to invent answers to throw him off just went straight out of my head, I was sitting there grinning like a moron answering his question every time, feeling extremely keyed out. Of course, he got distracted by the fact that I wasnt doing my job, and we had to start the video again... I always hoped my TRs were that good. I highly doubt it.

I think the quality of your TRs was highly dependant on your coach. Nothing pissed me off more than coaching like "you dont have anough ARC" - a good coach is specific and doesnt introvert their twin.

How they lose you?

By being suppressive. I would have happily audited on staff forever otherwise.
 

cantsay

Patron Meritorious
My current favourite analogy is to liken scn to a "Spiritual Poker/Slot Machine"! :)
Yes, it pays off every now and then, usually just enough to keep you pumping in the coins and coming back for more.
Every now and then it pays off big-time and you jump for joy at your good fortune... if only you could simply walk away.
exactly! There are too many people who is DOESNT work on, for it to be considered the be-all and end-all.
 

GreyLensman

Silver Meritorious Patron
AH HAA!!!!! Thats IT!!! Thats what Ive been struggling with!!!! Ive always had the idea that if you arent exactly perfect or "flubless" in every way then it wont work!!! Thats a big piece of false data. It worked for Ron, it worked for all the pre GAT auditors, and it works for GAT auditors - all in the context of it being the right action for the pc (which if it isnt, isnt, no matter how you do it).

Thanks for that!!! Big cog for me! Wooo!! :happydance:

:hattip:
 

Once bitten

Patron Meritorious
Hi Cantsay

Thanks for telling your story. Wow. What a terrible time you've had, and came through. Now you know you can survive anything. When you face something tough, you can look back and see what you survived, and know that you can get through again.

Awesome. And thanks again
 
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